Hey everyone new to the forums so hope I’m posting this correctly I bought a 289c2 with the ctl undercarriage a few mouths back, the problem I’m having is my track frames are moving side to side on the axle pins the plate with with 2 bolts and 2 holes for the grease zerks are flat against the axle it self but the track frames are sitting in about half a inch I know there is 8mm spacers on the back of the axles and mine are all in place is this play normal or should the 2bolt plate be holding the frames solid against the back of the axle ?
Are the bolts tight? They regularly loosen and the track frame starts walking around.
Yes all bolts are tight even the ones inside “under the cab” the track frame is sliding left to right on the axle shaft itself
RTD-prefix I assume. There were changes made at RTD00367. Is your machine above or below that.? Also have you removed the outer plates, or slid the track frames outwards) to take a look how badly the ends of the bushes the axles sit on are beaten up.? Half an inch of side float sounds way too much.
yes RTD mine is above that serial number I just replaced the bushings today in the track frames also made sure the 8mm spacer is behind the frames on the axle shaft when I slide my track frame on and bolt the “2 bolt plate” on I can slide the track frame in and out “towards and away from the machine about 1/2”
Can you possibly post some photos of both inside and outside.? Did you notice whether or not the flanges on the axles (behind the spacer #8 in the illustration below) appeared to be worn when you had the track frames off the machine.?
I can upload some pictures tomorrow when I’m back with the machine the spacers #8 were all replaced as well the flanges behind look to be in good shape as well, I measured the distance of the gap with a calliper with the track off the ground and frame slid all the way back “touching the spacers on back of axle”there is a 6-7mm of “axle” sticking through the frame hole/bushing
The best I can suggest at this point is to take a look at a new machine in your local dealer and see how the undercarraige mounting compares to yours in regards to free play between the track frame and the axles. I can't find any information on what the measurements are supposed to be.
Ok I’ll try that thanks you just for reference these are the pictures of what I’m talking about
How close is the track frame to body and hoses. That may direct you as to where a spacer is either missing, or needed. That or the axle flange is worn, like Nige said, or track frame side is worn. What does parts manual show?
Not much TBH. A spacer #8 on both F & R axles as shown above then a simple 2-bolt cover as per the OP's first photo. In the illustration below the spacers (qty 4) are #2, the retaining plate and hardware #1, 3, 9, & 10.
Yes that is correct this is what I’m seeing on sis as well I have replaced all 4 “8mm thick spacers” on both front and rear when I replaced the bushings the track frames pushed all the way in “tight against the back” leaves the 7mm gap u see in my other post the track frames have good distance from the hoses and body of machine as well I’m just unsure if there is to be a gap or if I can buy 4 more spacers and stack them to take care of the gap this is my first cat ctl so unsure of how it’s to be
If it was mine I would be installing more spacers, but I can see no specification or procedure to back up that statement. If you currently have 7mm of float I would have some some 8mm spacers ground down to 6mm and install them, that would leave 1mm of play. The $64 question would be to install them on the inside or the outside.? I guess track alignment would have a lot to do with that question.
I think I’m going to do exactly that I’m just going to have a friend machine me some 6mm spacers and I’m gonna pull the 2 bolt plate and install them on the front that way there is a spacer on back and front
Please let us know how it works. I would also suggest that you keep a very close eye on your track alignment on the drive sprockets, track rollers, & idlers.
Will do thanks!
On early ASV machines with similar torsion bars, there are no spacers, rail slides tight against axle. Axle sits slightly below rail flange, then a fibrous washer and retainer plate, bolt to axle, sucking axle against fiber washer and retain plate, and leaves a cushiony small gap .010, on the inboard side. But it’s a lighter duty machine.
I think I’ll go to the dealer and take a look at one and if I find no movement I’ll have some spacers made up I have a video of what it’s doing but I’m not able to post it here
You cannot upload videos direcT. They have to be hosted somewhere and then linked.
Are the inside of the tracks rubbing on the sheet metal? We have 2 - 279D's which has the same UC and neither have that much space. Post your vid on YT and you can link it here. Videos take up a ton of storage space.
With the track frame pushed back there is still a lot of space the track don’t come close to rubbing the machine body
Ok I am going to offer some knowledge here that may come with some Cat bashing as Cat may have sabotaged you here. The design of those axle assemblies comes from ASV. The wear you are seeing is normal and varies based on the application. This wear if not addressed can allow the tracks/track frames to toe in or out causing $$$$$ to leave at a rapid pace. The caps on the end will wear and can be turned for a fresh wear surface. The bolts that come loose are problematic. The loosening issue can be remedied by making sure male and female threads are clean especially of grease (Rifle cleaning brush, break cleaner and air). Use lock tight when assembling. This not only prevents movement but also to seal the threads and keep grease from working in. I suspect grease is forced into the threads of the bolts holding the cap by the track frame sliding on the axle from the type of wear you have found. This causes or contributes to the bolts working out. Meticulous thread cleaning and lock tight stopped this problem for good on my machines. Measure the axles and you may be able to find a corresponding model of ASV machine. If so order spacers from ASV to tighten up the wear. Your machine likely corresponds to an PT85g or the PT100/110/120/135g Models. Cat has used a different and usually smaller axle diameter then ASV in many applications. Why I will never understand. Cat does not offer the spacers. ASV will offer them in two different styles for the given undercarriage. One style has a rounded profile that will fit in the worn area of the rear axle. The below pic shows spacers that fit my 297d XHP which has an ASV undercarriage to start with. These spacers are not available from Cat. I find this rather disgraceful that these parts are not in the parts books, neither is the procedure to measure and address this wear. Addressing this wear will help to keep some grease in and dirt out. Measure the diameter of the axles and post. I may be able to compare this to my machines and get you part numbers that may work for you. No guarantees. Fitting these spacers may require removing and reinstalling the track frame multiple times to find a combination of spacers that addresses the wear and keeps the tracks in alignment. Yes I just said the word alignment. It is important that you try to keep the tracks aligned to the main machine frame. Measure the distance from the track frame to the machine mainframe at the front and rear of track frame to gauge the alignment. The last one I did worked out well with only spacers on the machine side of the axles. I rotated the axle caps on the outside. Rear axles had a single spacer. Front axle had three spacers. You will have to find what works for your machine. Hopefully this helps.
Ain't #2 a spacer?
I stand corrected. Spacers may be available for your machine. On my 297 machines spacers were not available or listed in the cat books but were in ASV books.
On your machine the front and rear axles may be the same diameter unlike the ASV. There may only be one spacer available. I seem to remember a few times I wish I had the machine tools to make custom size spacesr for a better fit.
Just help me understand. The 277, 287, and 297 vs the 279, 289, and 299.... if it ends in 7, it has a completely different undercarriage than if the model number ends in 9? And, only those that end in 9 are the ASV derived undercarriage?
my machine is a 289c2 which has the ctl undercarriage “solid steel dozer style” I believe you are talking about the cat/asv MTL undercarriage I ended up machining 4 spacers on the lathe the machine runs so much better now and absolutely no more side to side play! There has been no binding or issues at all with the new spacers
I believe all the #9s have the steel dozer style undercarriage and all the #7s are asv MTL style
The 7's are ASV style UC and 9's are the dozer style UC. We have 2 -279D's. Spacers are available.
Ths issue as I see it is that there is only an 8mm thick spacer listed in the Parts Manual. So if there is anything less than 8mm of lateral movement on a particular axle an additional spacer won't fit. That was the position in which the OP found himself. If there were additional spacers available of say 11 or 14mm thick it would be a good option to take up small amounts of lateral movement rather than having to make a custom thickness of spacer as the OP has done.
Correct. However the torsion axle design on the machines ending in 9 is an ASV derived component that may be interchangable in some applications
Upon researching this further. Spacers are available for both 7 and 9 series machines through cat. My opinion on the availability was formed in the early days of the D series machines. I went back and reviewed some old parts manuals. The old manuals did not show spacers. At the time I sourced them through ASV for both 7 and 9 series machines. Some time since then it appears that cat has started selling the spacer for both types of undercarriages. I ran an older serial number on the electronic parts look up and it showed the spacers available.
My cat dealer can get me spacers the problem we were having is they only come in a 8mm thick version that is to be installed behind the track frames “normally #2 or #4 in the diagram” I already had these spacers on my machine I would have just bought 4 more but I only had a 6-7mm gap so if I added another 8mm spacer I worried there would be to much pressure when the track frames moved for the suspension I just machined up 4 spacers at 6.5 and the gap is basically gone and I still have space for the frames to move free on the axles
I agree. You likely have the best quality repair to address the wear. I believe your repair will help reduce wear. I personally would like to see a variety of sizes available through the dealers. Did your alignment stay true? Most of the time I have found I needed different size spacers for front versus rear axles. This may vary with the application the machine is used in? Maybe I just found an excuse to acquire a lathe.
Alignment seems grate track frames are straight and no strange toe in or out machine is tracking perfect aswell