We have a Cummins L10 in our Thunderbird swing yarder. The engineer somehow managed to seize it up on Thursday and I was just curious what would be a direct replacement for that engine? We want to keep it mechanical not an electronic engine and something in the 375 to 400 horsepower range.
As far as a direct replacement for L10, but in the 400 horse range and it be mechanical you will more than likely have to step up to an 855. What is the HP of the L10 that's in it now? Not sure on the cooling system being big enough for the 855 or the length between mounts or mounts matching up. The M11 would work but it's not a very reliable power source, IMO. They did build M11's in higher horsepower configurations that were mechanical, IIRC. M11's were known leakers. Is the L10 weak for what your doing?
I never saw a mechanical L10 at 400hp. L10 celect, maybe 375. It wasn't until the M11 ESP+ that I recall 400 and up. It was usually something along 370 up to 400
If you were happy with the performance of the original engine, I would stick with what you had. Less expense converting the machine to fit some other power source. Might have to custom build an engine, but that's more than likely cheaper than building a new nest for a different engine.
It has just always been soft feeling and stuck a piston Thursday while walking up the road. I guess another L10 it is.
You will be happy you kept it simple Hallback.
M11 is just a bigger bore L10. An M11 celect or even an L10 celect will be so much more efficient than a mechanical. Low/no smoke. Fuel efficient, easier starting in the cold. It has really simple and basic electrical system. I would think you could find a used running on the cheap, and it'll bolt right in.
And I think everyone will agree, stay away from Stupid Timing Control
Yeah, STC has it's pros and cons. My old yard truck has a BC3 with STC and it's nice to start it in the shop without that eyewatering cloud of white smoke. But that system has had several hours of love put into it. They were sort of troublesome to begin with. I'd say mine starts as clean as an N14 now.
Adjust STC like an N14 ,outer base circle method. 70 inch pounds at same time as valves. Doesn't matter how much of everything works or doesn't, it just runs and runs very clean. You just have all those potential oil pressure/volume losses. It all looked good on paper. I haven't used that little plunger holder doodad in like, forever.
I’m a fair piece away but I have a good running L10 in a truck I’d part with. Don’t know a whole lot about it but it’ll sit for months and bust right off. Sounds and runs strong. No blow by.
http://chathamfuel.com/generic.asp?...Tech Tips - NT/N14 OBC Overhead Set Procedure
Sounds like what I Need! Where are you located?
Way down in Oklahoma lol. About 1600 miles away. It wouldn’t be hard to stick it on a skid and ship it though.
Drive the truck out to him... Then we can meet up with TS and a few other guys out here.
I’m passing through Oklahoma in couple months and depends on price and “IF” it gets bought this sounds teasing to me, just saying a International S1954 with a L10 mated to a Eaton FS6206A sounds like fun.
Now that sounds like a good time!!
Shoot me a price!
If I had time I’d be all over it. About to go babysit a down hole hammer for the next several months. Ugh!
Here’s a pic of the tag. 270 bone crushing HP lol.
Best off leaving my DT466 in at that small of power increase of 60 hp.
an L10 won`t fit where the 466 was so you`re right
I got a cutting torch, welding machine and few grinders that says watch this, I’ll make it fit if it’s worth the time or the thrill. Shoved a Mopar 440 with 727 transmission in a 93 single cab Dodge Dakota years back.
Tin ain't iron I admire your ability to shoehorn that much into so little. Now I know a coyote will fit
Hell I've stuff two-dozen coyotes under the hood of an old Dodge before. What's so hard about that?
Actually had to refabricate the cross member by cutting it and notching it out then cap it off and weld in new engine mounts after cutting those out. More to it than that but it wasn’t minor.
We might be talking 'bout different coyotes. And why'd you stick em under the hood?
Nothing mopar is easy
It was a buddy's old Dodge pickup that he said was the best runner around and we always teased him that it was nothing but an old dog. Well we went out and got drunk one night and shot a bunch of coyotes and stuffed them under the hood of his pickup.
Okay here on a serious note how important is the CPL number on these engines? I cannot find another lta10 with the CPL of 0894. Also mine is 325 horsepower at 2100 RPM stamped on the tag and I cannot find any others like that. How hard is it to bump up the horsepower of these engines?
That's a lot of HP for a L10. I've never seen one rated at more than 300. The M11 which is the electronic version of the same engine puts out those kind of #'s easily, but not the L10's. Is that one air to air aftercooled, or water? We put a air to air on one, but I'm thinking it was only 300hp. Is a "industrial" engine or a standard truck engine? I'm wondering if yours has a different style pump for in the yarder rather than the "truck" version. I ran a crane for a while that had the "industrial" pump, if I remember it actually had 2 separate throttle inputs on the rear, one for the "crane" operation and one for driving. I think it was set up different in the governor for crane operation.
CPL 894 only shows up as construction listed as a LTA-10. CPL does not exist as automotive, generator or marine. No breakdown is listed for that CPL either.
Well, this could be a problem as all I can find are different CPL's and need one asap!
It may not be the "correct" way to do it, but you're in a hurry. I would find a 300hp Lta10, and use your injection pump and injectors out of the old engine. You could use your turbo also. You may have a damaged injector from the piston going bad. - Quick and dirty would be to just use your injector pump, and use the rest of the used motor the way it is. It may not run the way its supposed to, but it will run. For piping and less changing, make sure you find one with the same aftercooling you have, air to air or air to water. Otherwise you will have to take all that stuff off of your old engine. Adelman's has several different l-10's on the shelf. Something like this maybe? They show both high flow and low flow coolant versions, I'm betting that you are high flow. They also show internal and external balanced versions, and I have no idea what your's is. http://www.adelmans.com/cummins-l10-310hp-diesel-engine-34669674 The right way is to get all the correct stuff to your cpl, but I find cummins to be less than helpful with any of the older stuff. If it was me, I'd mix and match what I needed to get it running, and sort out the rest later if I had to.
What year is this piece of equipment, is this L10 fixed time, STC or Celect? I ran into this same issue with a 855 STC that powered a tub grinder and it was rated at 450 hp. Had to go to Cummins to get info and injectors for it. It was not listed as a good CPL in anything I found and it took Cummins some time to find it.
It is an internally balanced unit. It is a 1990 in a Thunderbird TSY-155 swing yarder.
Upon further diagnosis we noticed one of the oil filters was completely empty of oil and upon pulling the pan this is what we have found.
After talking with Dick Bowman @ Frog Hollow in Seattle the twin disc transmission Guru he said most likely the converter Hub bushing turned a little bit and during travel those Transmissions produce 200 lb of Hub pressure as they are in lock up mode and in yarding mode they are only about 60 lb. At that 200 lb of pressure with that Hub bushing turned a little bit and the oil not allowed to escape it ate up the thrust of the crankshaft and plugged up the oil galleys and smoked the bearings.
Ouch. Carnage is always fun to look at. Worst case you have a mostly buildable motor should you decide to have a spare or something. The last one I had scatter vented the block, even had a wrist pin retainer hanging from an air line outside the motor!
That's the problem if it ate the thrust up that hard where it seized up solid then it most likely destroyed the block and the crank.
You don't happen to have a picture of the top of the engine and both sides do you? Then we could see the injection pump to determine if its industrial or truck, and what the aftercooling set up is, and high flow or low flow coolant system. That stinks about the engine, but at least you found the issue in the torque convertor, if you hadn't and just swapped motors, you more than likely would have taken out the next motor also.
Unfortunately your probably right the block is toast-Hallback. This same scenario happens when the input shaft breaks on a gear box, it usually breaks at an angle and the broken stub pushes forward against the pilot bearing loading the crank thrust bearing. Never try to sneak one home if that happens, as soon as you use the clutch the broken stub moves forward and in no time there goes the crank and block.
It is a high-flow internally balanced engine. I ordered one from truck parts in Oompa Loompa Florida. It should be here on Wednesday. It is only the 280 horsepower model but I should be able to swap my injection pump and turbo and gain the other 45 horsepower with some tweaking.
And considering it was the crank that failed, no harm to your existing injectors. PT pump should be ok as well. Dont think I'd risk that turbo though. Not without an overhaul. It starved for oil, no telling how long. What did it come out of? Hope not a Ford. If it's got a lean to it, you really gotta swap a lot more. Good luck.
Good point on the turbo. Honestly, no clue on its origin. https://www.catrucks.com/truck-parts/?vid=1603&unit=1991-cummins-l10-truck-engine
Good point about those funky fords. We have two like that.
When you said about the funny lean I got really nervous but looking at the pallet that it is sitting on it looks to me like it is sitting on their crooked. https://www.catrucks.com/truck-parts/?vid=1603&unit=1991-cummins-l10-truck-engine It must have come out of a bus or something with the turbo at the back of the engine but some placement changing and swapping of our old Parts should have it in good shape.
By the looks of things, you're gonna be changing front structure, bellhousing, intake manifold and oil pan, if you were looking for an automotive style engine. The air compressor looks like a Bendix tu-flo vs a holset single. The accessory drive looks a bit odd in the pics, could just be all the black paint. If you purchased it as just a core engine to place all your accessories on, cool, I don't think she'll drop right in however. Had a customer bring me a junk yard take out for a seized M11. It was going into an International 8100, he harvested it from a ford L8000. That's how I became familiar with the woops points. Bellhousing, mounts, etc etc, The one that really got me was the cooling jets, they had a different angle for the leaning tower of power.
Don’t be mixing a Cummins up with a slant 6 mopar! Lol
In a L8000 what would you call it?
I took a look at your s/n 34625140 vs new engine s/n 23534276 Pistons and head are the same. Injectors, turbo and fuel pump are different. Cam appears different too. Old is 3037523, New is 3895679. Old uses a 30' angle of offset key, new uses a straight key. No idea if that actually matters or not, L10s are a bit before my time. Cant seem to find anything stating what the differences are. New motor came out of a KOWLOON motor bus. Explains the weird turbo setup. In 1993 it had an injector replaced at cummins in hong kong.
Plum goofy lol.
Or slow, yeah.
Wow!
看看chan，有人从我们报废的公共汽车上买了那台发动机，然后打算用它！笑笑！等到他看到它抽烟有多糟糕！
Oh no Crane op has been reading too many Tadano manuals.
can we extra like a post? giggle translate did wonders for crane ops post.
Hahahah translated crane operators post for those who cant run google. Look at chan, someone bought the engine from our scrapped bus and planned to use it! Smile! Wait until he sees how bad it is to smoke! Damn man... im just sitting here giggling to myself
You guys are mean
Worst case scenario it's a scrap piece of ****, I'm only about fifty five hundred bucks Which is less than one day of yarding so if it does run then I am ahead.
Well lets hope for the best and it turns out a good engine, .
Ah hallback, we're just having a little fun. I buy used junkyard engines too, its always a roll of the dice. I'm too hoping that it works well when it shows up, I've had one used engine that came right back out after we had it installed in a crane, but everything else has been good for me, so I guess I'm 1 out of 6 for used engines. That ratio compared to buying "reman" engines at $25,000 per unit, makes the used market what I can afford. Sounds like you have enough left of the old one, to mix and match to make this one work.
Knowing my luck it will be junk but I guess that is why I just bought another yarder also. Why have 3 yarders when you can have four? LOL
Worst worst case is the motor I have. It’s waiting patiently for the call to duty. Put me in coach!
If the used engine has a good block, crank and the basic's you can always overhaul it and still be money ahead. My injection pump guy told me not to worry much and crank mine up to the 375 hp mark or even up to 425 and not worry much, I've just not had the time to do after we took out an electronic L10 and converted the truck back to a mechanical L10. The used mechanical with only 280 is way better than the old electronic at 320 hp that never ran anyhow. In order to turn it up, I'd have to take the pump and injectors in and he'd change the injector tips is what he told me or maybe the whole injectors.
depending on the application, a 280 with 30% torque rise may out pull a 320. horsepower will get you down the road but torque gets you up the hill
The 320 hp electronic engine never ran long enough at any one time to go anywhere or do much of anything in all the years we had it. I'm also thinking someone has turned up the mechanical before me and never bothered to re stamp the hp on the tag, but when I have time, I'll pull the pump and injectors and find out for sure.
Ours is in the yarder and should fire off tomorrow.
How did it fit being a bus motor and all?
Basically had to swap sides of everything on the engine. Nothing major but time-consuming none the less.
Since yesterday was the day before today, and on yesterday tomorrow was today, and today was yesterday's tomorrow, everyone wants to know- Did it FIRE?
Did you write that after watching this bit?: But yes, inquiring minds do want to know, did it fire and if it did why are you reading this go put that machine to work!
Fired off and runs like a Swiss watch. Far better than the old engine. Smoother, more power, crisper throttle response and no smoke!
Woo wooo!!! Happy its working good!
Good news.
cummins six pickin up sticks another one of its many tricks
classic old gold
Thanks guys, it was a heck of a gamble but it paid off. My luck will run out one of these days though. LOL