hello gentelman and also any ladies out there.my name is rich and found this forum because i am stumped.i have been a mechanic for a rental equipment store for 32 years and am finally stuck.we have a cummins b3.3 turbo around a 2013 model that is powering a vermeer 10 inch wood chipper.problem is when the engine is at full throttle white smoke pours out like its something from a james bond movie!! this wouldnt be too much of a problem except that if rpms drop the feed roller stops which is what is happening. so the feed roller starts then stops starts and stops.now i know white smoke indicates water in fuel which i know there is not.drained tank filled fresh fuel new fuel filter.drained fuel filter just to check and not one drop of water came out.engine coolant has never gone down and engine oil level never has dropped either.so i guess my question would be what would make a diesel engine pour out white smoke besides water in fuel. now this smoking only happens at wide open throttle,when it is idled down it doesnt smoke at all. only at wide open. any help would be greatly appreciated,thanks muski!!!!!!
How many hour do you have on the unit? Possible issues might include bad injector, bad fuel pump, injection timing. You might check the air filter for plugging. I'm sure there will be more ideas coming.
Injector nozzle sticking allowing overfueling. How does the engine oil smell? How about air intrusion, are you sucking air into your fuel system. Are your fuel filters remaining full?
Have you TRIED loosening each injector 1 @ a x to see if you can narrow it down to 1 cylinder?? It may be a lift pump problem or an overflow valve problem??{weak}
So looking back a 2013 model would be tier 3 and that would mean you probably have cooled EGR I would start looking there you may have a crack EGR cooler allowing coolant into your intake stream or you may have unwanted EGR. Are you losing coolant. Do you have any errors indicating high intake air temperature
also perhaps you could help with a little clarification do you have traditional pump line and nozzle fuel system or do you have common rail. Do you know if this is a tr3 engine what is the complete engine model number for example is it qsb isb or just plain BT ?
The B3.3 is a Japanese engine, been told it has something to do with a Komatsu, looks sort of like an Isuzu and the ones I have seen use PLN with a Stanadyne pump but I would like to know too what he has.
If you aren't losing coolant, then white smoke is unburnt fuel. Water in fuel will not easily pass thru the injectors, resulting in an obvious miss and poor performance, but, not white smoke. First thing that comes to mind, because my coworkers are "special", is, is the high engine speed correct? A deere 3014 will run happily at 3800rpm, but the radiator capacity, and the belt driven compressor on my Godwin pump certainly don't like it. IIRC, a 3014 on a cd100m Godwin likes 2100 rpm. Verify that wide open isnt too far open.
thanks for reply.no the engine coolant never drops at all.i will check it anyway
well i havent checked rpm but i know the rpms are right on the line of being what its should be to keep feed roller turning.the feed roller wont turn unless rpms are at full throttle and what its doing now is turning then stopping,turning and stopping.thx for reply
air filter is good will check injectors and if fuel pump is bad how would that make it smoke?? ive been mostly a gas engine guy not too much exp. with diesels
Some of us are still wondering what injection pump/system this particular unit has.
And nowhere do I see how many hours on the engine, and whether there are any other anomalies, such as hard starting, hot or cold. I did find this
I have seen that type of behavior before on a 5.9 in an excavator. This machine had an inline pump that I believe had Denso on the tag. It drove us crazy for a bit. All the operators called it the mosquito killer for a long time. I had pulled the head looking for a broken ring or something but all was clean. Tried a variety of items as well. I finally pulled the injection pump and sent it in to Seattle Injector. They told me that each pump plunger had some kind of timing device and one unit was bad. They fixed the pump and sent it back and all worked well. Maybe Pump Guy could provide more info on this?
It makes a bit of difference WHAT KIND of injection pump it has on it. A picture or a model number is all it takes. This could be a Cummins or a JD, it makes no difference, all that matters is the injection pump, most likely. Edit: anything that causes one cylinder not to fully combust the fuel will make this white smoke, like a leaky common rail injector, or bad timing on an old injector, or no compression on that cylinder, or a terrible spray pattern, air in the fuel...
hey guys sorry havent been back in a bit.im the only mechanic here in a rental shop so dealing with every kind of machine you can think of. anyway update installed 4 new injectors and still doing same thing. the engine has 696 hrs run time on it.as far as what kind of injection pump it is ??????? only thing i can find on it is a -z- symbol and a sticker with these numbers-6273-71-1140 then under that set is 104747-7110.hate to do it but might have to bring to cummins dealer and get bent over !!!!!! thanks for all your help guys
Looks like a Zexel version of a V pump with those numbers but I don't know how they work inside.
you are prob right with the -z- symbol embossed on the side. weird thing is this engine has been to dealer would say 2 yrs ago and had the pump replaced but whose to say it went bad already.this could be my whole problem. thanks birken!!!
hello everyone!! i know its been a while and thats because we took chipper to a diesel engine shop not a cummins dealer.well they went through it,tested injectors they are fine.they were brand new but they checked them anyway. came to conclusion it was the fuel pump. now this would be the 2nd fuel pump its had replaced. got chipper back went out on its 1st job,ran great no problems for about 2 hrs. then started smoking at full throttle again and feed roller stopped turning. just went out to it( been a few days) started right up.once its up to temp. and i accelerate to full throttle it only takes about 5 seconds and starts smoking bad again.so basically doing same thing it did before we took to shop.to refresh the smoke color is more white than blue and doesnt smell like burning oil. we def. are at the end of rope with this machine. only has 600 hrs on it. thx for everyones input !!!!
I don't know how that pump works, but it acts like the fly weights are sticking or whatever controls the timing advance. White smoke is unburned fuel. I had a CAV pump and a few Roosimaster pumps have issues with the fly weights that can cause missing and smoking.
thx wes. not sure what kind of pump they replaced it with but will try and find out!!!!
hi wes just checked work order from shop.they said pump that was on it had rust inside and sent it out to be rebuilt. so they didnt replace pump just had it rebuilt. maybe rebuild job went bad because it ran great no smoke for 1st 2 hrs and now it only takes 5 sec of full throttle and starts smoking bad again. oh and sent pics of old pump with rust in it and it does have the flyweights in it!!!!! thx again wes!!!!!!
So this vendor that you sent the machine to did they drain the fuel from the tanks flush it clean and fill with fresh fuel Do you have a fuel water separator in line. Have you tried running off an alternate source of fuel. unfortunately since the smoke is already reoccurred you may already have compromised all the work that has been done
Hold onto your hats fellas.. That pump has a "cold start" advance mechanism on the side of it, YES?? Has 2 coolant lines running to it?? & it only starts this crap when its warm?? and after it sits for the evening & u start it up & GET IT HOT, it runs ****** again?? IF u answered YES to ALL those questions.. I have the answer to your problem..
That little "gizmo" on the side of the pump, changes the timing A LOT.. {up to 16 engine degrees} U put the pump on wrong.. Somebody didn't read all the way thru their manual.. You "HAVE TO" disengage the CSD before putting the pump on.. You put a "block" between the lever & the plunger & THEN install the pump.. & after its all locked down, u take the block out.. IF ya don't believe me?? we can do a test.. While its HOT & smoking like a frt train.. take a screwdriver & roll the lever forward & shove a block between the plunger & lever & start it back up.. U GOTTA use a screwdriver because of the spring pressure.. BE CAREFUL, it'll snap back on ya.. & it HURTS.. lol Good luck..
Sounds more like anti freeze in combustion chamber.....egr cooler is good start to look at
hello ,yes they said they drained tank and flushed it out and put fresh fuel in it.havent tried alt fuel source yet. thx for reply oh and yes has a fuel /water separator which is new and the 1st thing i did was drain into a clean pan and didnt see 1 drop of water.100% fuel
gonna go pull side cover and take a look but i dont think it has cooling lines running to it. after it gets to operating temp and go to full throttle then 5 sec later smoking,but only at full throttle if you idle down smoke stops and runs fine.
what i was thinking at first but the coolant level has never gone down
Fuel supply pressure is? (0-5psi) need a gauge on there Fuel return restriction? (7.5in Hg max) can disconnect return and run external Can it be run without pressure cap on cooling system? to lessen chance of coolant thru EGR
yes it does have coolant lines gonna try and get a pic in here
holy crap i did it!!!! lol not too comp. or phone savvy but there it is. so you are saying put a block between the plunger peice that has coolant lines going to it and obvi. the lever in front of it??also this is a stupid question but what is the csd that needs to be disengaged???
CSD ... Cold Start Device ... advances timing until the engine warms.
ok i did the test and instead of 5 sec till it started smoking it took maybe 30-40 sec till it started smoking.does lever need to be fully forward or just open say 1/2 inch??then took block out and tried again and still took 30-40 sec before smoking so bad that rpms drop right down.then go back to idle it almost stalls then catches itself and idles smooth again?? still stumped
ahh yes knew it was a stupid question lol
It only needs to be about 1/2" or 1".. I'm not sure, it might advance the timing OR retard the timing..when its cold.. but it does it a lot.. SO, if u put the pump on without disengaging the "CSD" once it warms up, its gonna change the timing.. IF u have a engine manual u should take a glace at it.. 1 more thing that may be happening.. the housing is worn out internally, keeping the advance roller cage from moving smoothly.. THATS WHY it didn't recover when u took the spacer out.. I've replaced 100's of pump housings for that same reason...400.00 customer cost.. ON TOP of a regular rebuild cost.. It got so bad that I contacted a machine shop to come up w/ some sort of repair.. a sleeve maybe.?? It didn't work out & I shelved the idea..
hey pumpguy thx for reply. a little update i did the test a second time and with block in it lightly smoked but not enough to drop rpms.then took block out tried again and did same thing lightly smoked and didnt drop rpm. gonna try again today without block but do you think this is still the problem that pump was installed wrong??? thx for the help!!!!!!!!
thx for your help pump guy. pump only has 700 hrs on it so it must have to do with the timing. wouldnt think the body of pump could be worn too bad yet. the shop that installed it said its kind of like an automatic thing as far as setting lever over before installing.told me you dont need to do that??? does that sound right or they dont know too much about cummins???
Hey.. I"M NOT GETTIN IN THE MIDDLE OF THAT ****.. It would be diff. if "YOU" had put it on.. Its possible the roller ring was stuck & now its moving.. since u manually moved the lever.?? If it continues to lightly smoke & doesn't run you out of the shop.. let it ride.. I don't wanna get into a he said, she said bullsh!t.. Hey what do I know?? I'm just a dumb pump guy..
Hey, you don't have to take thepumpguy's word for it, find the book and see what the procedure is for installing that pump. I'll say that of all the responses I've seen from thepumpguy, this one was completely unexpected, came without even seeing the pic of the pump, and more or less worked like he said it would, who do you think I'd bet is right? Now lets be sure we have the whole story. Back in post #19 you said that after installing this pump, it ran good for two hours before it started smoking and losing RPM. and this is the second pump that's been replaced? What were the problems with the first and second pumps and when? I don't remember seeing any mention of checking for air in the fuel return, or fuel pressure while it's smoking and not feeding, those would be a good idea before any pump is removed in my simple mind. If you really want to make it easy for us, post a video with the fuel pressure, return through a clear hose into a jar of fuel, and a shot of the smoking exhaust all at the same time, and/or what it does when you mess with that cold start advance device.
hi pump guy well you were 100% correct!!!! the shop came back took our chipper then told me the pump was rebuilt wrong ??? think they are liying but either or we got it back and now its running fine no smoke at all!!!! i think like you said the pump was installed incorrectly. thank you for your help and thx to everyone that helped me out. finally problem solved it was the pump this whole time!!!!!
Its good to be "King".. "Thanks" my azz.. I work for food..Lol Glad u finally got it sorted out.. Just remember> the 1st ones free..Lol Stay warm up there.. & your welcome.. that's what we're all here for..
And if muski was smart he would not have listed his address as being Rhode Island, heck a state that small will make him easy to track down if he don't pay up the next time he asks for help!! If nothing else he should offer to let us borrow the chipper when we need one!
Maybe when I go see my brother I'll swing by.?? but that'll be in the summer, so he's got plenty of time..