Are there any other options for cutting edge fasteners? Bolt on cutting edges that I've seen always have the bolts and nuts sticking up into the bucket which is fine for many uses, but when trying to scoop up rocks or any material with chunks, they often get stuck on the bolts/nuts. It seems like there must be a low profile option, or some other way to fasten the cutting edge to the bucket (other than welding) that doesn't have no much "stick-out" into the bucket. Any ideas?
Great opportunity for new innovation. Tapered lug nut with slots for a spanner on the outside in a tapered hole. Could hold that and turn a plow bolt with allen head in to it.
Welded adaptors is the other option. You could grind the bolts flush with the nuts.
We use these Cat bolts…
Yes full bolt heads will catch material… Maybe try these…
Search for “Plow bolts”. However they will only work if whatever you want to attach has the square for the plow bolt head stamped into it.
I've had weld on cutting edges. I certainly prefer them on a loader to use. I don't think too big a job to freshen them up. The corners wear first. I cut a short notch & weld in new. When I do a whole full width of grouser stock, I cut it in three or five pieces, weld it in. After the bucket cools, I can fill the gap. When I have installed a single full width it'll break as it cools. I've done them several times, used to use Messer 80TAC+. It is a sweet rod to work with! It isn't low hydrogen, but I beat them pretty hard on rocks, never had a break in weld. 7018 would be a good choice. I'd probably try spray MIG, or dual shield next time. Main Oxy says the guy in West Haven rebuilds buckets for a slate quarry, & OMYA goes through a couple 43 LB reels of dual shield a week.
Have you considered cutting the nuts off & welding the nut end of the bolt to the hole top side? I have had a problem with bolts loosening up, damage the hole in the bucket. I weld the nut to the bolt shank to keep them from loosening. Torch them off when I turn a cutting edge.
What also might work is a plow bolt from the top side down and the bottom side welded to the adaptor.
It's not the head side that is the problem, since those are usually recessed in the replaceable wear edge. It's the "nut end" that protrudes into the bucket that's the problem. I hadn't considered that because I'm trying to avoid welding to the bucket if possible. But that's a good option because it reduces the amount of welding exposure to the bucket.
We took a Cat 36" tooth bucket for our 305's then welded an old 279 cutting edge on the last two teeth. If we need a toothed bucket just knock the two teeth out. No welding on the bucket just the 2 teeth. FWIW it was cheaper to buy a 36" toothed bucket than smooth lip ditch cleaning bucket and the toothed bucket is larger for faster cycle times when we have to load a truck with a mini.
These things are almost big enough to hang my coat on... They are equally as effective at preventing scooping up rocks and dumping them out:
This was a big issue for us as well…when feeding our double screen deck washplant. It is critical to have a very even feed rate of the gravels…we really should have a dedicated feeder but not in budget…therefore good gold recovery is dependent on operators ability to deliver an even & consistent feed. Wet material with boulders (up to 1’) in particular tend to hang up. Our solution has been to weld Swedish half arrow onto cutting edge. No bolts/nuts protruding. Very good life if using authentic Swedish steel!
Cut them off flush and run a donut weld around the bolts. Would need a couple clamps and a piece if flat bar to hold the bolts up and clamp the edge tight to the bucket.
I have a similar cleanup edge for our 50d. Welded onto outer two teeth. The machine came with this ‘cleanup’ edge on the 18” dig bucket. Maybe they used it for utility trenches?
Probably footings. The smooth edge leaves a clean floor for rebar chairs. Most commercial specs call for no loose debris in the footing trench so a smooth lip cuts down on the shovel work.
Just found this thread coming here looking for similar advice. No one has mentioned just how durable are typical CAT buckets if you take the bolt on edge off? Is the basic bucket the same as the BOCE unit but with an edge bolted on? Or other differences in metalurgy? When I was first shopping for a backhoe used decades ago, every ad mentioned whether the cutting edge had been turned or not. Now in real life for general farm work that isn't on pavement or concrete not sure the value in a BOCE is there for me.
I think good buckets will be made so they could have teeth adapters or a bolt on edge. Clean up buckets are probably similar to std. buckets but for work in rock, frost and difficult conditions they make heavy duty extreme buckets. The bolt on edge adds some strength but is primarily so it's easy to replace/flip when it gets worn out. Replacing the welded on bucket lip can be a big job for some.
I prefer weld on cutting edges. I've had this machine over four years, haven't yet worn out an edge with hard use. I figure a fresh edge with grouser stock is not a big job. The bolts are always in the way. No big thing scooping gravel, but rocks are a problem.
I also use weld on edges (half arrow). When I am feeding the wash plant a smooth, consistent feed rate is critical & bolts/nuts will interfere with feed when a small boulder gets hung up...
Agree. Also it's just not worth the time or money to cut the old edge off and weld a new one on. That's why our 2 primary CTL buckets have BOCE's and welded shanks for the teeth. Took a Cat smooth bucket with a BOCE then shaped mini-ex sized shanks to fit the profile. No more scalloping between the shanks like we had for years running other buckets. The benefit of using the mini-ex shanks on the CTL buckets is all our teeth are the same. The bolts aren't an issue in this situation.
I can't believe I hadn't seen this madness before now. There is no way this would work for longer than a day or two on anything bigger than a 1-3 tonner. Without any sort of stretch on the bolts, the first sign of stress and they will stretch on their own, then the edge is loose. If you can't run a bolt-on edge, weld an edge on and be done.
Yes, really depends on your application. I would agree in most cases bolt on edges are better. I am not looking forward to replacing the edge on our 50d (feed machine). The Swedish half arrow does seem to wear incredibly well though. Also in our situation the machine is only loading loose gravels from a stockpile; no hard digging.
What is half arrow?
Here's a small scrap I found. It's nice as it welds up to upper & bottom surface of bucket cutting edge. I also use it for side cutters on our excavators. It would lay just as shown in picture up to existing bucket edge. This example is mini-excavator/skid steer 'size'. There is a supplier local to us (Kamloops) that has all sizes; right up to large mining machines.
And a drawing…
Nice product, I don't read swedish. I went to their website.
Welding it on with ArcTec 223 or some other 7018 rod I assume. Decent solution to bolts sticking up and holding back slow feed at hopper. Simon C
Yes, I have been using ArcTec 223 for a while now...The builder of our wash plant recommended them back in 2012 and have been using since then.
I see a bolt on edge.
A good weld is just as strong or stronger than a nut but need to use the right filler metal.
Unfortunately it doesn't appear that Swebor sells in the USA.
I'm not disputing that fact. What I'm saying is when you tighten a nut on the bolt, you stretch the bolt, it provides clamping force to hold the edge tight. If you just weld the bolt, it's not providing any sort of clamping force. As soon as you put stress on the edge, it's going to stretch the bolt, and then it will be loose. Keep working it, it will keep moving, stretching, getting looser, pretty soon it fails. If you could torque the nuts, and weld the bolt without losing that stretch, it would theoretically work, but that is not possible. Someone please back me up on this.
The heat from welding could add tension when it shrinks on cooling. I think it could be a viable option if you don't want nuts sticking up. If you needed max. strength you'd probably have to weld the edge on if bolts would be an issue.
The only way I could be sure is try it. I found my 3' wide toothless bucket kept loosening the bolts. I used red locktite on them, still loosened. I torque, then weld the nut to the bolt, that works. The nuts & bolt sticking up even higher is a problem with big rocks. This is true on both ends of the tractor, loader, and hoe.
Welding the torqued nut to the bolt should always work, unless the holes are fagged out. The main reasons for bolts working loose IMO is worn out holes, or crappy fasteners.
Perhaps you could find an equivalent?
I would never weld the nuts after tightening, or just weld the bolt. As soon as you work it and start stretching and getting debris behind the edge, it will bite you in the ass. When I bolt my cutting edges on, knowing that 90% of the time, the nuts have to be cut off, to flip it or change it, I smack the threads with a hammer. A cross threaded bolt, will never loosen up.
Maybe I should take a business trip to Sweden
I'm retired, so sometime I spend more time on a project than it deserves. I countersunk the holes in the loader: Used the torch to anneal the hardened edge where the bolts will go, drilled and threaded: Then used flat head socket bolts: Ground the bottom of the bolts off flush. Smooth on the bottom, smooth on the top. One of the dumb farm-boy tricks I used is to liberally coat all the mating surfaces, and the threads with silicone sealer. Might act a little like removable loctite, but mainly to seal everything so it is not a rusted mess in 10 years. If the silicone is there, water is not.
Was the edge hard to tap and did you use the mag drill to start the tap straight? Like the idea but I would have used red loctite to hopefully keep the bolts tight. Cutting the bolts a little long and pounded them would probably keep them tight too.
Drilling and cutting the threads was brutal, even after using the torch to take the hardness down. I did use the mag drill to start the tap. Lots of lube, lots of back and forth with the tap wrench. Keep in mind that this is an old tractor lightly used on a hobby farm -- not worked in anger on a daily basis Here is a video of when I was first checking out the drill .
Which company were you able to buy these from as I may have a project or two to do. Guessing in Kamloops if you would share. Thanks Simon C
Morfco in Kamloops. They carry a good selection of teeth, adapters, cutting edges etc.
Know who they are now. They use to deliver cutting edges to Lafarges shop in West Kelowna every so many months. I couldn't remember who the dealer was. Thanks Simon C
I notice the new Volvo buckets have no bolts sticking up. I'd have to look close but I think the bucket is thicker and the nuts are in a hole. The 180 is like that. Not sure about the others