So the dipper cylinder on my deere 310d backhoe needed rebuilt so just figured I'd avoid the hassle and pay up to have the local tractor shop do it. Rebuild kit was 100 bucks... Labor.. 400 bucks. Total 500.. Holy crap... Is that a normal price or is that aBout 200 bucks too much?
Double that here in Texas.
I don't think that's out of line at all for price. Now that you know what it costs, you can decide whether you want to do the next one yourself. $500 sounds about right to me.
You got a gift. You should buy the guy a 12 pack.
Ok guys.. Thanks for your responses.. I will definitely try it myself next time.. Undoing the big bolt is the only hard/impossible part from what I've seen. My son in law did his swing cylinders himself on his 580k in an afternoon.. Smaller cylinder though. You guys make me feel better about what I paid.. Thanks.
Just a note... A new cylinder is 1200-1300 so if I had to pay a grand for rebuild I would just go new I think.
$500 is a very fair price here as well including the seal kit. No way in hell I'd tackle that cylinder to save $400. No telling how much the time, skint knuckles, trips to china freight, cussing and the divorce proceedings would cost when I finally got that cylinder resealed.
I’ve got to adjust my prices. I charge by the hour and am certain I’ve never charged that much to repair a cylinder. I’m obviously leaving some money on that table.
A lot of shops end up charging a environment fee, and a shop supplies fee. There may be some honing involved in this particular cylinder also, which we don't know about because we didn't see or pay the invoice. I could see a shop being $125/hr and by the time they get it on the bench and do some honing, etc. I could see there being 3 billable hours.
85 an hour and he said nothing about honing.
He did say he had trouble getting the bolt off. And he used a giant pipe wrench to take off the cap instead of the tool for it... So my nice yellow cylinder has big gouges on it now... Whatever I guess.
Thats fair considering I've spent days tried to get a head out of a cylinder before
Pipewrench ??? Very unprofessional ! I had a shop do that to one of my cylinders. The gland looked like a dam gear from the bite marks. He never saw me again. I was so pizzed off I bought used cylinder and never used that chewed up disaster.
A big pipe wrench used to be the only way to get some gland nuts loose. The phony spanners and minimum notches in the gland were not sufficient to handle the stress of removing the gland that was put on like it was going to be sent to the moon.
We had to repack the main boom cylinder on our Gradall 534D-6. Our guys R&R'd the cylinder and I had the easiest job taking it to the cylinder shop and picking it up. A little over $600 for parts and labor. I thought it was a little steep but I'm not willing to tackle it to save $200, we can make that in the field doing what we do in an hour or two. It's just a business decision.
And what if it needs more advanced work than a simple seal kit? If it is already in the hyd shop, they are equipped to carry out the work. If it is in your backyard, you have to deliver it in a pile to the shop with your head hanging down. Just a thought, I know every situation is unique.
I have drilled, tapped and bolted to aluminum rod guides and welded to steel rod guides many times. On some of the bigger aluminum rod guides I have even cut the cap off the bottom of the barrel and built the cylinder from the end. When you get it back together pull the cylinder all the way out and reweld the end cap back on. Reynolds apron cylinders are especially bad for this. A steel barrel with aluminum rod guide is a recipe for a rebuild nightmare.
Local shop just loves it when cylinders show up in a box or milk crate.
In my case all the dumb azzes had to do was drill new pin holes and use their cylinder bench the way it was designed to be used. I wasn't allowed to go in their shop, but I could plainly see the cylinder bench. It was only 4 inch barrel.
You should have a minimum charge. Mine is $400.00
I agree. I know this is off topic but what about a diagnostic fee to plug into a machine. Do any of you independents charge one?
When I worked at the stealership we would occasionally get a cylinder gland that was so tight we would weld a heavy piece of steel to the gland and beat it with a sledgehammer. If it was aluminum then it was pretty much fubar.
That should be $400.00 too. Lets see if I can explain a bit better why you as an independent need a minimum charge ( or a company for that matter). Alot of times in my business here, I get called out on what I consider piddly crap.......or something dumb and overlooked. Back in the day I also charged by the hour like yourself but do you know how many times a week I would get to a job and replace a burned fuse?...or tighten a loose fitting?....or put a few bolts in something?..........all in less than 1 hour. If I billed travel time and mileage for 1 hours work the bill might be $200.00 in most cases. My truck gets 5-7 miles a gallon at currently $3.09 per.......and I also have to cover a truck payment and insurance, and any maintenance. There is tooling expense because your tools DO break and wear out. So.......I billed $200.00, my cost is approx. 50%.........so I made $100.00 net. Now Uncle Sam comes in, and because I'm self employed and have to pay self-employment tax on all the rest of the BS taxes, He takes HALF of my hundred bucks. As you can see, the net I end up with that is actually mine is less than the hourly rate you charge. Your on the losing end of every job like this...............and you will go broke doing it. You HAVE to have a minimum to keep you in the black on this stuff. If your customers bitch about it then tough tittie........your in business to make a profit and be able to continue to provide the services they need. None of us do this because its good for our health.
That sounds about right if it's an average rebuild for our shop. 3 hours max on most cylinders even if it's a little stubborn.
I actually went out on one of these kind of jobs today on a Cat 320C. Customer called bitching about the A/C belt squalling all the time. Proceeded to tell me that he had another "mechanic" replace the a/c compressor and the belt.........and less than 3 days later the a/c belt broke. Its been through 3 belts and currently had a new one installed 2 days ago. He says the belt squalling is driving him insane and he is ready to go kill people and proceeds again to tell me his a/c guy cant figure it out.. I asked if when the belt squalled if it effected the a/c operation in the cab.....he said no, that it still was cool and working great.....its the dam noise. It takes me all of 10 minutes to drive where he is, climb up top and open the engine enclosure where I could see the belt was a bit loose probably stretch after the initial adjustment......perfectly normal. I get underneath and check the pulley belt grooves, the idler bearing, the compressor, and the belt itself. all look good so I tighten the belt and have him start it up. While the engine is idling, I hear a slight chirp at the front of the engine. I have him stop the engine and I climb back up to the top of the machine and sure enough the fan belts were loose.........looser than the a/c belt. I tightened those, closed everything up, and put him back to work. He called me 45 minutes ago and said it was the best day he has had in 2 weeks.......no squalling at all. I cant explain why the previous 3 belts broke. All I know is that the belt squalling he was hearing was from the fan belts, not the a/c belt. No one ever thought to even check them. Guess what.........I was there less than 1 hour and less than 20 miles drive time. He is paying a $400.00 minimum (That's a labor minimum) and mileage because that's my policy.......doesn't matter what the conditions are. If I did this by the hour I wouldn't make enough to buy dinner at Arby's for me and the little woman.
On the rare occasions that I do independent work I tell everyone that I have a minimum charge of $300. It serves two purposes. For one it weeds out the bull crap and cheap customers. And the second is just as vetech63 put it. A lot of my side work is done on the weekends. And it's not worth my time to come out and do a hour of work. By the time you get loaded up and drive out fix or diagnose it within the hour. And then get back to the house you wasted half the day. In markets such as vetech63 and mine it's rare to have a job less than 30 miles from the house. Besides $300 is cheap. If you called the stealership they wouldn't likely get to it before a week. And when they finally get there and do everything you just did your looking at least $1,000-,,$1,500 bill. Another way to justify your minimum charge is you being independent are more likely to know what the problem is. A stealership may send you a kid with a parts cannon locked and loaded. So I ask you. Does being down for a week and getting the parts cannon for a minimum charge of $1,000-1,500 cheaper than my $300 accurate minimum of a day or two being down better?
Parts cannon that's hilarious but there are a few good mechanics at the stealerships too. If it comes into my bay you'll only get the parts you need. The right ones the first time. I've had independents and dealers make major mistakes. Had jd come out to plug into dozer they said it needed a new engine. Plugged 90 at fuel filter and loose mufler bracket making noise.
I work for a stealership. And most of the guys are good at their job. But we do have some parts changers. And then I or our other top hand will have to go make it right. As much as people like to think. We are not factory trained and the ones that are still don't understand anything better than before they had training. I have had some factory training, but usually the part changers get to train while the US money makers grind it out.
500 is pretty average for that size for us. I bill a minimum of 2 hours plus travel and supplies during the day and 4 hours plus travel and supplies for emergency call outs, plus any parts obviously, on the heavy equipment side.
I would say $500 is cheap to fair and assume that thing almost fell apart. The fact that the seal kit was only $100 surprises me. If you want to do them for yourself in the future Keep in mind that even smaller cylinders like that can be a bear. I recently did a dipper cylinder on a 580 case that the packing gland was put on with tread locking compound (from factory) that was fun. Then when I couldn't brake the piston bolt I took it to the cat house and after braking two drive anvils on there bench they quit, didn't want to risk braking the last one they had in the shop. In the end if that would have bin the only thing on the service ticket it would have bin close to $2000 but I also did front axle seals, steering cylinder, full 2K service, and some other stuff so I just kind of spread that out on the other stuff so it didn't look that ignorant.
^^^Ditto. And don't get me started on Deere's training. I could right a book on it and it won't be pretty !