One thing to fix before i can use this machine.. The hydraulic pump front mounted DU4U believe it's a 1951 ,has 2 lips seals on the hydraulic shaft..they are back to back,i see one is a dust seal and the other is a hydraulic seal. Both are around 6.43 mm in width ,the dust seals is slightly larger than the hydraulic seal.. Cat can't find any info for the part numbers as of yet.has anyone got a clue what they are ?? Thank You for any help.!
Cant get it by size from an industrial supp[y ?
Grizly, what's the S/N of your tractor and the S/N and model of your hydraulic system? The Cat parts blokes have probably never heard of a D2, let alone have any parts info on them. I have a big collection of the old Cat parts books, covering a wide range, and I can probably give you the P/N if you give me the S/No's. These pumps are Vickers pumps, built to Cat specs, and occasionally, you will find that the seals or bearings are "proprietary line" (i.e. - designed to Cat special dimensions, and not a standard seal/bearing). However, by far the major amount of parts in the Cats of this era are standard dimensions and design. They will be imperial (inch) dimensions, a metric seal will not fit properly. Imperial dimension seals are readily available. You can also run a vernier over the shaft and the opening in the housing, to get the ID and OD dimensions. Then take the old seals to Statewide Bearings/AWB Bearings and ask what they can do to supply same.
Thanks for the help...I don't know what kind of hydraulic system it is..I believe there are a few types .i have a statewide bearings close by it is open tomorrow.. I will do that ,so thanks for the help guys..i will post the part numbers also in case some one else may need help.. By the way the serial number of the dozer is DU4U 4602 ,and like i said the hydraulic type is not something i am familiar with though...
Grizly - O.K, a D2 model 4U with a S/N of 4U4602 is a very late 1951 year of build (4U4761 was the last tractor built in 1951). There were three main models of hyd system for the Cats in that era. No. 41, No. 44 and No. 46. There's a tag on the hyd tank (on the LHS rear face of the hyd tank), that gives the hyd system model and S/N. The No. 41 hyd system was a small hyd system with a capacity of 12.5GPM on the D2 and 11.5GPM on the D4. (the difference in output was due to the full load RPM of the D2 being 1525RPM, the D4 was 1400RPM) This unit was designed for towed ag equipment hydraulics and was not used with a blade, as the flow rate was inadequate. The No. 44 hyd system was the common hyd system. This was fitted to the D2 4U & 5U series, and the D4 6U and 7U series. The No. 44 could also be fitted to the D6 8U & 9U series tractors. This hyd system could be fitted with two different width pump cartridges, and was used for the hydraulics for blades, as well as for hydraulics for towed ag equipment. The narrow cartridge pump produced 27GPM on the D2 and 25GPM on the D4. A wide cartridge pump could be fitted to the No. 44, and this produced 37GPM. This unit was fitted only to D4's. The No. 44 hyd system had S/No's starting with 6W5001-up, 7W1-up, 8W5001-up and 9W1-up. The S/N is important to ID the correct components that make up your hyd system arrangement. Your tractor should be fitted with a No. 44 hyd system with a S/N starting with one of the above S/No's. The "arrangement" number for your narrow gauge 4U series D2, fitted with a blade, is 7F4482. This 7F4482 tells us the P/No's of the tank, pump, lines, mountings, hoses and fittings used in your installation. Because there are design and part changes, according to the S/N of your hyd system, I can't find the exact correct seals until I have the hyd system S/N.
The #44 pump drive shaft used a double seal (one piece) part # 5F4721. These seals are no longer available and Cat offers two separate seals to be used back to back. The replacement is a #1J8162 (2-required)
i have looked around the hydraulic tank but there is absoluelty no tag on it ..
old magnet There are 2 seals back to back in there ,but they are of different diameters ,there must be 2 part numbers
If the tag is there it's on the backside RH side of the housing/tank as viewed from seat. Very difficult spot to read.
it is actually not anywhere ,it must have been removed at sometime
Then it's at least going to take a picture to identify it. The #44 set up has both seals running on the same diameter sleeve and same bore in the cover.
yeah thanks,i will pop a few pics through now..
i am thinking that someone has put the wrong sized seal in the housing ,if it is so they have 2 of the same sized outside diameter seals,one was covering that oil gallery..
Ok, that is not like any of the Cat provided units. You will just have to try your luck at matching seals with your local provider. Usually the drain hole would be open and the seal on the next step bore.
my luck hey..it must be a mongrel then ?? any idea of what kind of pressure these unit may run at on average OM>..
Original Cat pumps were vane type with a max. pressure of 1000 psi. That appears to be a gear pump so pressure may be higher, often rated at 2500 - 3000 psi. Your going to have to gage it to find out....once you get it sealed up. The fittings and control valve I see are typical rated for the higher pressure but that doesn't mean much.
do you think nomral lips seals may hold the oil ?
I'd try for double lip seals if you can get them. The OEM most likely used regular single lip seals. A lot depends on the condition of the shaft.....speedy sleeve may be required.
Thanks OM I will see what this other place can do...been to 3 places this morning but no luck yet...
Grizly - That's the biggest home-made setup of a hyd system I've seen. Certainly not Cat, and I can't even identify the pump brand. Alloy housing pumps are usually cheap and nasty. I'd say the oil gallery in the housing behind the seal is to allow oil to travel from the pressure side of the pump, to the suction side, to lube the shaft bushing on the suction side. You don't want that blocked off. Check the pump for name or precise dimensions, it may be a metric pump. If the worst comes to the worst, buy a double lip seal that fits the shaft accurately, and is a larger OD. Then machine the housing to take the bigger seal. If you need a machinist, see my mate John at Portek Engineering - Unit 1, 67 Dowd St., Welshpool. He's a machinist by trade, and a good one, and he'll be able to machine the housing for you.
i had no idea..doggy as...i got a seal but it was a taper of the OD so i had to back it up against it with the steel housing of the origional.The new seal is all rubber and has no steel outside to press in, but i 609 it to hold it..seems to work.. The origional seal number was a Pioneer seal p/n 2698 ..the new one is different...had a time trying to find the pioneer one... Looks like some Galah must have built this oz dozer ...lol anyway i should post some pics of the lift set up rams ect ...if only for amusment as this point...seems to work though....
i wonder , did you guys notice the Control Valve is WELDED to the hydraulic tank ?? this is the rednecking version of engineering ...you like !
thanks for your mates number in case i need him by the way..
Yeah, welding stuff together is a pretty common stunt amongst the cocky farmer set. I knew a contractor who was a big-acreage farmer as well, and I've never seen anyone so rough in my life. He'd have track roller bolts break, so rather than drilling out the bolts and installing new ones, he'd just weld the roller to the trackframe. If carrier roller support bolts broke, he'd weld the carrier roller support to the trackframe. If track cover guard bolts broke, he'd weld the track cover guards on. If fuel tank bolts broke, he'd weld the fuel tank to the fenders. No matter what it was, he'd pull the welder out for the instant fix, long before he attempted any proper repair. These blokes don't care about the poor b*ggers who come along afterwards, and who not only have to remove the weld-fixes - they have to fix the original broken item properly as well. They're good people to steer away from, if they offer anything for sale.
the blade when buried in a pushing ,really hasnt got the power to lift itself up,you have to reverse out of it then lift .. The machine tends to be front heavy because of the blade ect,i guess being a D2 it is normal..i may try a counter weight ,not too much just enough to stop nose diving so much . I found when i scrape and the blade digs in it tends to dive in deeper subsequentially then nose dives a bit too much...even if you are careful.Well i try to be careful.
hydraulic pump you have to use hydraulic seal part from a hydraulic shop pump part are is the cat system they have too reset sis back to year of machine ,or ring cavpower work- shop hyd section they have nice little book on you pump.