Hi, a D3 newb here. I bought a D3 with a blown 3204 engine. Has multi spider type cracks in a 2 inch diameter on block but no hole. It threw a broken rod through the center of cylinder one. pieces of cylinder sleeve in oil pan. This motor would need a lot of work to rebuild. would like to swap this 85 hp engine for a C4.4 engine with 125 hp. The D3 is from the earily 80`s the C4.4 engine was made in 2014 and has 5376 hours on it. Is this even possiable to do? Need some idea r`s tonight. there are 3 or more ways to go, asking for advice. The under carriage, tracks, sprockets, spools look good. Could be in for a surprise with drive train though. Want to know if you guys think not possiable, or not worth it?
Nothing's impossible, if you want to throw a bucket of cash into a project. I STR the C4.4 has its origins as a Perkins 4-236? Of course, it's been modified extensively since Cat bought up Perkins in 1997. But the bottom line is, the two engines are substantially different, in build and design. The 3204 has 2 engine mount positions (one each side) that are more towards the centre of the block - because the D3 drivetrain has the engine and transmission mounted as a unit at 4 rubber-mounted points - one each side, sited close to the centre of the transmission, and the engine. The C4.4 has engine mount positions that are sited at 4 points on the engine - 2 on the bell housing and 2 at the front corners of the engine block. This means you're going to have to design and fabricate new engine mounts that are going to involve a serious amount of thinking and planning. I'm not all that sure if there's room to move the engine mount positions forward on the chassis. You may be able to move the mount positions forward some way on the chassis, but the engine mounts would still require design work, to move the mounting point back some. I'd say it's quite possible the bell housing from the 3204 can be adapted to the C4.4 block. Just more design, measuring, and engineering work - new holes drilled in the housing at least, an adaptor plate at worst. Attaching accessories such as hydraulic pump means pipework and mounting arrangement will need to be reworked. It appears you may be able to fit the pump to the C4.4 in a near-similar location as on the 3204. Coolant inlet and outlet need to be reworked. Could require some fancy plumbing. Probably need to see if fan location is in the right place for the D3 radiator, you won't be able to use the C4.4 radiator. I'd be concerned about the major HP upgrade. That's a big jump in HP, you're going up a tractor size. This is going to place undue stress on the rest of the drivetrain, it's not like the rest of the drivetrain is bulletproof, the D3/D3B is actually 65HP if your tractor age quoted is correct. Finding another 3204 block and rebuilding your engine may be a lower-cost choice in the final figuring.
Thanks Oz for the reply. I farm in Southern Ontario. It is fence line that is my prime focus of work for the machine. Patience is key to cutting tree roots before pushing down trees. D3 known here as under powered can find them under repair from abuse. That`s why at this time I thought it`s engine might be underpowered. thanks for re-inforcing the thought to not re-engineer Cat`s previous design limits. I have the bare bones model 3204 rated at 65 hp. What do you think of a 2nd option of buying a used 3204 DI I have found a few out there, but the prices are the same as a fully rebuilt 3204. Also I have found old 3204 still running with 6000 hours for half the price of a rebuild. Maybe better to go the cheapest option until I work the machine and see if it has problems in clutches and steering motors etc. Cat all new to me. I bleed JD green three generations already.
Can yes certainly I'd love to see photos of the job. Should you probably not bear in mind once you have it in there and hooked up mechanicly you still have a mess of wiring and emissions systems to make happen one way or another. I have a pretty good idea how the emissions bit would get handled but it's a cost and to make the wiring presentable/reliable/properly functionable could be a very involved job
Since your a deere man find a 4045 mechanical and fit it in there
A good used 3204 is a satisfactory option, provided you can check out the engine condition thoroughly. A 6000 hr 3204 rates as "well worn", and would need to be acquired cheap, and preferably rebuilt before installation. I'm in the process of rebuilding my 3204 from my 931B. I took the entire engine and transmission out of the 931B, this is the best way to work on them, everything on D3's and 931's is an extremely tight fit. My engine was running O.K., but I found pieces of piston skirt in the oil pan, so I stripped it down and found 2 seriously cracked pistons with chunks out of the skirt on one. The engine was original, standard bore and standard bearings and I would estimate it had done 8000-9000 hrs. Bore wear was reasonable, I took it out to .020" oversize, and the crankshaft was perfect, it only needed linishing. I bought a full engine overhaul kit from IPD - pistons, rings, bearings, camshaft bearings, and Out-of-Frame gasket kit. It's important that you use only genuine wrist pin bushings (little end bushings). Everyone I spoke to said only original Cat conrod bushings will provide satisfactory service, they are a weak point in the engine. The ones I got from Cat were made in Japan, and they were AU$40 each. The IPD engine kit and gasket set cost me a little over AU$2000. The engine rebore, block acid bath, block facing, and crankshaft polish, cost me AU$1700 including local taxes. The cylinder head reconditioning turned out to be a bit of a disaster, I spent AU$700 with one reconditioner, which was a pure rort, they wanted AU$2400 to recondition the head using "all-new everything". I took it off them after they only cleaned the head and did 2 pressure and crack tests - and gave the job to a smaller operator and he cleaned up the seats, bored the guides and installed genuine K-line inserts, to take out the guide wear. I was going to grind the valves until I found I could buy all new IPD valves for AU$208, so I installed new valves - as well as all new springs. I used American S.B. International valve springs, they were AU$87 for a set of 8. The labour and new guides added AU$550 to my cylinder head bill. I could've kept the cylinder head bill down by keeping away from the first head reconditioner, but all up, the head repairs eventually cost me around AU$1550. The only other thing I had to do was build a decent engine stand, capable of taking 1 tonne, because the 3204 weighs around 700kgs, and I wouldn't trust the weight rating on any Chinese engine stand.
thanks for the reply Tyler. Yes I saw the black box or should I say the silver box. That`s a question I hoped someone had a work around for. But your right. Electronic fuel mapping kills the idea right there. I have 3 JD that are all mechanical, just one tractor and the combine electronic. Have yet to have problems but would need help with them. Had someone help me on an inframe 5 years ago, wanted a reman fuel injector pump from Deere, no longer available for a 8440 series. Had to use the local shop rebuild what I had. There wasn`t anything worth buying in Deere as far as a decite under carriage, everybody seems to value JD more than Cat, or just more Cat dozers around here. But your right. Mechanical best for me. Want to stay Cat with Cat, Deere with Deere. Thanks for the reply guys. May post by the weekend about what 3204 option was the best deal I could get.
thanks for the reply Tyler. Yes I saw the black box or should I say the silver box. That`s a question I hoped someone had a work around for. But your right. Electronic fuel mapping kills the idea right there. I have 3 JD that are all mechanical, just one tractor and the combine electronic. Have yet to have problems but would need help with them. Had someone help me on an inframe 5 years ago, wanted a reman fuel injector pump from Deere, no longer available for a 8440 series. Had to use the local shop rebuild what I had. There wasn`t anything worth buying in Deere as far as a decite under carriage, everybody seems to value JD more than Cat, or just more Cat dozers around here. But your right. Mechanical best for me. Want to stay Cat with Cat, Deere with Deere. Thanks for the reply guys. May post by the weekend about what 3204 option was the best deal I could get.
Unless you're a whizz-kid with electronics trying to exchange a mechanically-controlled engine with an electronically-controlled one is going to pose an extremely complex technical challenge. That's assuming that first you can successfully overcome the mechanical challenge of actually getting the replacement engine to mate up to the tractor.
6,000 hours is normally at needing rebuilt
Thanks Oz. I really appreiate your break down of a 3204 rebuild. I know it`s been posted before, nice to have current pricing. IPD seems to be trusted source, I ve read here to only trust the Cat genuine wrist pin bushings and connecting rod bushings. I have the belly pan out and the engine removed. No stuck valves in the head actually not bad looking. Wear but nothing bent. I have a shop to recondition and seat new valves. No one willing to mud weld the block tho. Also being a sleeveless block this shop not capable of boring and replacing a liner in the damaged cylinder. They want a good used block to re-hone. One question I have is did you magnaflux your block when you cleaned it up for stress fractures. I think they quoted me $160 for this. if it was a running engine, don`t you think it would always pass this test? I would like your opinon on whether you replaced your oil pump and oil cooler?
Thanks Nige, I ve read a lot of your posts, always good advice. I am just a simple self read & taught back yard mechanic. The C4.4 was on a generator set. It had it`s own control for the electronic fuel mapping. Also had matched radiator and sub frame I thought possiable to cut and mount the cat engine mounts to this subframe. I did not consider a different balance of weight over the orginal engine mounts tho. Motors look similar but such in life would not be so simple. A pipe dream I have decided, after getting all the problems pointed out to me. Thanks guys all advice needed and appreiated. Will have saved me time and money and headaches.
D3Newb - Yes, my engine reconditioner magnafluxed the block for cracks, but I had no reason to suspect any cracking. None were found. I would think block cracking is a pretty rare event on a 3204, although an extreme overheat event could induce it. I didn't go for new oil pump gear and rotor, because my gear and rotor look exceptionally good, the maximum clearance allowance is .011", and mine measured up at .008". Plus, the US$1000 or approximately AU$1600 for an oil pump gear and rotor, was a little hard to stomach! (and that was aftermarket, too!). Cat price is about half as much again! Oil cooler wasn't replaced, it's only a small tube-type cooler and I simply pressure-washed it, cleaned it out with a kero spray gun, and got it looking nice and clean, through both oil side and coolant side. You could try the company below for a good used engine block. They want US$3300 - $3500 for a rebuilt block. I guess that means a rebored and tested block, ready to go. CAT 3204 Engine Blocks for Sale Search our large inventory of New/Reconditioned/Rebuilt/Used CAT 3204 Engine Blocks for sale. Enjoy our hassle-free online checkout or call to speak to an expert. www.vanderhaags.com