Hello fellas. I recently added a D4D to the fleet and am looking for a little info. The old owner still has to locate the larger service and Op manual for me. I have a parts manual for now. Its a direct drive model. Its a 6J51234 serial number. Its hard to find any single source that lists all the different series (ex, 6J5) in one place. The previous owner believed it was a 1972 or 74. Its a Jap made Mitsu model. Alum tag says "Caterpillar Mitsubishi LTD" and the oil dipstick is all printed in Japanese and the old lube chart is all in Japanese also. The last owner has had it since 1992. So for the last 31 years, its only done small bits of maintenance work periodically on an 80 acre tree farm. Can anyone tell me if its a wet or dry main clutch and if the steering clutches are wet or dry? I am planning to change all the fluids and filters very soon. I have a new pail of CAT trans & drivetrain oil SAE50 that I would love to use somewhere in this machine if possible. I also have a drum of DELO 100 SAE40 I'd love to use also if possible. I also have a drum of Ranndo HD ISO32. Can this be used in place of SAE10 in the hydraulic system? Thanks a bunch!
A couple pics of the Ol Cat!
Can you post a photo of the machine Serial Number plate please.? The "6J5" prefix does not appear in any documentation I have for a D4D, everything is two digits followed by a letter, for example 47H or 65J. Come to think of it, you didn't transpose two characters by chance.? Is the S/N actually 65J1234.? 65J prefix is a Japanese-built direct drive D4D dating somewhere from 1972 onwards.
Yes, must be my dyslexia flaring up, lol! It is 65J1234
Don't worry, I have the same problem.......... Someone will be along shortly to give you an exact date, but TBH everything you need regarding parts & service information comes directly from the machine Serial Number, so long as you get it right that is.....!!
65J series D4D'xs were built in Japan by the Shin Caterpillar-Mitsubishi joint venture, in a surplus Mitsubishi factory, between 1969 and 1978. 65J1234 was built in late 1972. Production that year was from 65J1092 to 65J1275. All direct drive Cats were offered with an oil main clutch option from 1955/1956 onwards - but the D4D had oil main clutch fitted as standard from 1965 onwards - so yes, the main clutch is an oil clutch. It will have a dipstick, if you look for it. The steering clutches and brakes are dry. You could use the TDTO 50 wt oil in the final drives. The engine will run happily on the Delo 100 40 grade, as long as the ambient temperature range is above 32°F. Below freezing, you really need to go to a thinner viscosity. The Rando HD ISO32 will work just fine in the hydraulic system, it is equivalent in weight to SAE10 wt hydraulic oil.
Ok great! Thanks for confirming my thoughts on the oils. Is the clutch dipstick the one that’s on the floor on the front/right next to a larger fill cap?
See illustration. The manual speaks thusly - "Check flywheel clutch compartment with engine at low idle and machine level. Maintain level to FULL mark on gauge."
Do these cat wet clutches need any special oil, or the same 30 or 40sae as the engine? Tranny and bevel case oil also likes what kinda flavor?
SAE30 for ambient temperatures above 32F, SAE10W below. Transmission SAE30 TO-4, bevel gear compartments SAE50 TO-4.
Isn’t the trams and bevel gear boxes separate or common/together on this machine? Other threads I’ve found on here mention them together.
Yes it is. I was thinking of a powershift. In that case SAE50 TO-4.
So the bevel gear case gets SAE50 TO-4. Got that! Is the trans on my direct drive separate from the the bevel gear case? And 30SAE or 50SAE in the trans if its separate? Sorry for the confusion, lol!
Trans & bevel case are a common compartment.
Ok so trans and bevel gear is the same case and 50SAE in there
Wet steering clutchs were a factory OPTION on 65J and 47H japanese built D4D. So possibly may be wet clutchs. You only need to remove the brake inspection covers on rear case to see if they are wet or dry brakes. The one oil TDTO 30 fills transmission, bevel gear and steering clutchs.
Ok, what am I looking for to know the difference?
Oil-covered appearance inside the steering clutch housings, once you pull one of those inspection covers. You can't mistake an oil-filled housing from a dry one.
After looking at oils, many brands of sae30 have a TO-2 spec listed. I can’t find any kinda approved list for the delo100 sae40. Is it good or bad to run in the trans/bevel gear case?
Delo 100 SAE40 grade is an engine oil. Be aware that engine and transmission oils are essentially produced for different applications with different additives. There's no combustion taking place in a transmission or gear case. Engine oils are fortified with additives designed to handle the byproducts of combustion, such as acids, water, heavy levels of carbon. Gear trains don't have to deal with byproducts of combustion. They have to have oils that can deal with condensation, high gear tooth contact pressures, clutch engagement surface shearing pressures, and higher operating temperatures, than those found inside engines. Accordingly, use engine oils in transmissions, and transmission oils in transmissions and gear drives. In the old days (60's and 70's), Cat said you could use engine oil in transmissions. Now that recommendation has been thrown out, and Cat tell you to use specific oils for specific compartments.
Shouldn’t that be “use engine oil in engines, and transmission oils in transmissions and gear drives.”….?
Yes, Nige - apologies all - should've proof-read that better, I was in a bit of a hurry this morning.
Ok. So the trans/bevel gear oil is milky indicating water contamination. Since in the 60s/70s cat recommended using engine oils since it was easier, can I safely use this delo100 sae40 just to change the direct drive trans oil and run it for a couple days days and then change it out for a to4 50SAE afterwards. Just thinking it will help clean out/flush the trans with an oil that I have an abundance of before changing it to expensive cat oil. Am I wrong in this thinking?
That was during the "one size fits all" phase that was typical of all major equipment manufacturers at the time. Thinking has moved on since then but a lot of maintenance manuals from that era have never been changed.
Make sure the round plate at the centre rear, the gasket is still good.
So the ol cat has a temp gauge stuck on “warm” all the time. It reads like this even in the morning on freezing days, lol It looks like it was replaced at some time, but the temp probe line must have been damaged.
All the cheapo China mart cat repro copy gauges on fleabay And Amazon were all $22-$30. CAT dealer was $150. I found this NOS thermo gauge on fleabay for $35! It’s its original box from 1988.
Good find. Cat gauges are pricey. You probably have to buy the rubber o-ring that goes around it seperate unless you can reuse the old one. I went with a cheaper oil pressure gauge. It's not as accurate as a Cat gauge but does show if I have oil pressure or not. I know the oil pressure is within spec. from the old gauge so I'm not too concerned as long as the gauge goes up when I start the engine and down when I shut it off. The original gauge was leaking from the case and oil was running down the back of the firewall. Seemed weird the gauge would leak like that. The oil made the face very cloudy and hard to read too.
Lol, I looked in the box and there is an envelope with the mounting clip that secures the gauge from behind. And lo and behold, there it is! A flat Oring same diameter as the gauge and it has a CAT part# on it. Lol!
Maybe at some point the o-ring was included. It was almost $3 when I priced a gauge several years ago. Not a lot of money compared to the gauge but why not just include it.
So about the hydraulic oil level/tank. Ive read on here and on web that there should be a sight glass on the left side of the tank. Ive looked over every inch on both sides of the tank and don't see a sight glass anywhere on this tank. Anyone have any advice for hydro oil level? Or maybe a pic of the glass on their d4d tank? Thanks!
Does the hydraulic tank have a tag on it with a Seiral Number.? The Hydraulic Control for tractors of that era was separate parts-wise from the tractor itself, which means it probably isn't in your Parts Manual. It certainly isn't in mine. I assume that the tank cap is a screw type.? Try removing it an look in the neck. Is there a small rectangle in there for a dipstick.? Better still is the dipstick stil lthere.?
Yes it does.
A 97G prefix makes it a model 141 Hydraulic Control. You need this O&M manual, the form number is FE034883-04. Caterpillar 163 161 153 151 143 141 Hydraulic Controls Dash Mounted Instructions | eBay Australia Reasonable condition with marks and wear and tear and cover missing. www.ebay.com.au
I dont know why I didnt just think to look in there to begin with. Lol! Yes there was a rectangular/oval slot in there to the left of the strainer and it had a dipstick in it! Its been made out of an old dipstick from something else, but it has been engraved with a hi/low mark and shaded in between them. Thanks!