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D5G XL Park brake came on when using

mike holcomb · 2023-06-06 12:00

Park brake came on when using, checked fuses, all good. No red light on by fuse box. Tried new brake switch and nothing. When switching from FED to REV the back up alarm comes on, running or just Key on. It will not start with switch in the parking brake off position. When turning key on, lights on dash are low oil light, park brake light, and the Elc squiggle symbol is on, Middle lower light out of the 6 on dash. It goes away once running. Serial #00D5GHWGB01130 Thanks for any help

Replies103
  1. #1Nige2023-06-06 12:11

    First up, kudos for posting a Serial Number. It makes finding information so much easier. So what you have when you turn the key on is warning lights #3, 6, & 7 - Then #3 & #7 should go out once the engine is running, right.? #7 is critical. It should go out even when the engine is idling, you should not have to rev it up to make that light go out. From experience of others on HEF these tractors are very sensitive to the alternator output not being up to snuff. Do you have a meter that you can test the alternator output voltage at Low Idle and high Idle RPM.?

  2. #2mike holcomb2023-06-06 12:14

    Yes correct, 7 goes out once started.

  3. #3Nige2023-06-06 12:16

    OK, next step is to measure alternator output voltage at Low Idle and High Idle RPM. Hopefully @CM1995 will chime in with confirmation. I know he has a D5G and has experienced the exact same problem.

  4. #4mike holcomb2023-06-06 12:16

    Yes, good call, I ment to check belt and voltage but it went past me once switch didn't change anything. I'll check right now. Thank You

  5. #5Nige2023-06-06 12:19

    Good idea. Start with the belt condition & tension first. Also take a good look at the pulleys for wear.

  6. #6mike holcomb2023-06-06 12:24

    Check pos post at alt and its 14.44v when idling. I just happen to add load tester to 1 battery before starting and only showed 12v , im gonna check other battery separate to make sure I don't have 1 bad battery

  7. #7mike holcomb2023-06-06 12:33

    Both batteries check out ok, little low when I put under load 100amp, they show 11 & 11.5 recover to 12 & 12.3

  8. #8mike holcomb2023-06-06 12:41

    I just touched ground off starter to chassis and it fell off. Someone was here before by the looks. Duct Tape ‍♂️ Let me fix this and I'll respond in a few. Thanks for help

  9. #9mike holcomb2023-06-06 14:58

    So I fixed ground cable. Parking brake light still on. Any thoughts on what's next? I read on another post about a solenoid to check on trans? Any idea what one on my model? Thanks

  10. #10Nige2023-06-06 15:04

    Those voltages don't sound that bad, especially the alternator output. Time to go looking for Diagnostic Codes I think. Locate the Harness Code Plug connector (CONN 22) in the LH Console right next to the Service Tool (ET) connector. You will need a short (6"-long) piece of automotive wire to jumper various pins in the connector. See the attachment.

  11. #11mike holcomb2023-06-06 15:37

    Ok thanks, I'll have to check it out tomorrow, they don't like paying overtime.

  12. #12mike holcomb2023-06-06 15:41
  13. #13Nige2023-06-06 15:57

    That's the one - top left. You might have to remove the zip tie to get the connector apart. Remove the RH half of the connector (the one with the short black jumper cables) then turn on the key. The powertrain electronic control automatically goes into diagnostic mode. If you read through the attachment tonight and have any questions feel free to ask. The diagnostic indicator #1 is right next to the ET connector.

  14. #14mike holcomb2023-06-06 16:02

    Is this the plug you talking about

  15. #15mike holcomb2023-06-06 16:03

    Thank you for the help today

  16. #16mike holcomb2023-06-07 09:44

    So today I jumped the pins with wire ,pin 1 and 2 on left of plug, im only getting a 244 code. According to sheet it says rocker switch. Switch is new and it won't start when brake is off so what now? Maybe a wire in plug broken?

  17. #17Nige2023-06-07 09:49

    That's the first Code on the list. It may even have been created when you replaced the switch. Try jumpering between Pins 2 & 3 and see if it will erase. Even if it won't, go back and jumper between Pins 1 & 2 again. That should scroll you to the next Code.

  18. #18mike holcomb2023-06-07 09:53

    Ok I messed up, brake switch was off. Now brake switch on, I get a 262 code, says Switch Deceleration?

  19. #19Nige2023-06-07 09:55

    Try jumpering between Pins 1 & 2 a few more times, just to make sure there are no other Codes listed. Meantime I'll try to pull up some diagnostics for you.

  20. #20mike holcomb2023-06-07 10:00

    I tried to erase the 262 code, now back to pin 1 and 2 I get a 352 code. But I don't see that on list

  21. #21Nige2023-06-07 10:06

    If the 262 code is active you won't be able to erase it. I suggest before moving forward power the machine off and back on again to reset everything. Attached is the troubleshooting procedure for the 262. This relates to CID 1702 which is the Decel switch. If a complete electrical schematic would be of use to use let me know and I'll send you one.

  22. #22mike holcomb2023-06-07 10:10

    I just got a 251 after erasing the 352, now it's blinking 222

  23. #23mike holcomb2023-06-07 10:16

    After thinking about this for a min, the Opperator said 2 weeks ago it was hard to turn and go in rev to the left and it would pop out of reverse on him. So I took boot off and lubed the fwd-rev -left -right control and put it back together. Ran for 2 weeks and said it didn't do that anymore. Then this parking brake light thing happened yesterday

  24. #24Nige2023-06-07 10:16

    222 indicates no Active Codes. Try powering off, leave it for a couple of minutes, then power on again. See what you get.

  25. #25mike holcomb2023-06-07 10:42

    Nothing, still 222 code flashing. I tried main power off, ran it switched thru fwd rev, on and off with park brake switch and still 222 when I recheck it

  26. #26Nige2023-06-07 10:48

    OK, so that indicates there is nothing electronic amiss, at least nothing that is being registered. I guess the next step is to check the park brake solenoid valve is receiving power to release the brakes. Does the Park Brake light on the dash go off when you move the switch from ON to OFF.?

  27. #27mike holcomb2023-06-07 10:54

    No, park brake stays on , even when brake is on if I put it in reverse the back up alarm comes on. I don't remember if that's normal? Park brake light will not go out when switch brake to off

  28. #28CM19952023-06-07 11:01

    A little late but here's what we did - Since ALT is putting out 14.4 V and the park brake switch is new (we've replaced both which fixed the same problem) the third thing to try is another set of batteries. One time we had one battery that tested decent but was pulling down the system voltage. Not saying to buy new batteries but if you have a set that are known to be good swap them out. G series machines are very finicky with voltage as we all know. I'm not a mechanic these were just our experiences.

  29. #29mike holcomb2023-06-07 11:07

    I dont have another set to try, I dont think it's battery issue both seem to test ok

  30. #30mike holcomb2023-06-07 11:10

    Where would the park brake solenoid be located? Do I access it up top under floor or drop belly pan

  31. #31Nige2023-06-07 11:11

    I'll send you an electrical schematic. It might come in handy. Keep an eye on your messages. Check the park brake pressure switch #5 is operating when the brake switch is moved from OFF to ON. The switch is NC and should OPEN with pressure. Also check that the parking solenoid valve #4 is getting power to release the park brake. I'm sorry I don't know the answer to that. Maybe @CM1995 can answer better than I can. He has a D5G.

  32. #32mike holcomb2023-06-07 11:13

    Ok Thank you

  33. #33mike holcomb2023-06-07 13:30

    On the solenoid I'm getting 10.0-9.9 I tested plug voltage with brake off key on and its 11.5

  34. #34mike holcomb2023-06-07 13:31

    11.5v at plug. 10.0 9.9 was ohm on solenoid

  35. #35mike holcomb2023-06-07 13:36

    I'm hoping this is correct solenoid? I had to unbolt the block cause plug had something in it and couldn't get button down to unplug

  36. #36Nige2023-06-07 14:20

    Confirmed that you are on the correct solenoid. Can you hear it clicking when you apply the 11.5v to it.? If you can't hear it clcking that could be a clue. You might have to remove it from that block You might get different results with it connected to the machine harness. Do you have any way of back-probing the connector so that you can measure the voltage with it hooked up to the machine.? Also maybe try measuring the voltage with the engine running.? Solenoid coil resistance specification is 10.16 ± 0.20 ohms, so that is OK. I'll be honest and say that I am not at all happy with the 11.5v. I'm harking back here to what @CM1995 said in respect of battery condition. I know you have no spare batteries and that makes things more complicated but I'm not happy at all with that voltage. EDIT: Get on the pressure switch (Ref #5 in Post #32 above) as well. Check the switch contacts, they should be closed. See if the contacts open when you energize the circuit to the park brake solenoid but this will require the engine to be running. My suspicion is that they will stay closed. BTW I will be stepping out shortly and will be out for the rest of the afternoon. Answers to questions may take longer as a result.........

  37. #37mike holcomb2023-06-07 15:51

    I have a new solenoid coming in morning. I checked batteries again with different tester and meter and they are up 12.3 12.4 separately. I did have anyone on site to flip switch while I was under it so tomorrow will do those other tests before I switch it. With it running Both batteries are at 13.2-13.4 , And it wings right over when starting so it's just making me feel it's not batteries. Worst-case I can pull batteries out of my truck tomorrow, just to rule that out if need be

  38. #38CM19952023-06-07 19:27

    Unfortunately I don't know as we have never replaced it. From our experience troubleshooting our D5G electrical issues if the entire system is not running very close to 14.4 volts strange things can happen. With it running and reading 13.2-13.4 something on the voltage side is wrong and will cause issues from our experience. However your problem could be something completely different.

  39. #39mike holcomb2023-06-07 21:48

    Idk maybe? My buddys D4g is same at his batteries 13.4 13.6 while running, 14.4 at alternator. So after seeing that on his makes me think its something else. I'm not disguarding your info. Thanks

  40. #40CM19952023-06-08 09:25

    Me neither as the electrical side of things either building or machinery is my weakest knowledge. Just sharing what we've been through.

  41. #41mike holcomb2023-06-08 13:56

    Do u have any idea what this brake pressure switch looks like? I can't seem to find it. I follow diagram but it looks like it goes to a ground right where #5 is circled. Unless I'm missing it?

  42. #42Nige2023-06-08 14:03

    This is the best view I have. Follow the hose #1 (arrowed) that goes round the back side would be my best suggestion. That hose lands up very close to the pressure switch, probably in some sort of manifold or other that is not shown. From the illustrations I get the impression that the switch might be a lot lower down in the machine than you think it is.

  43. #43mike holcomb2023-06-08 14:06

    Ok , I see that, I thought that was a speed sensor because it was on outside of drive. Let me check

  44. #44mike holcomb2023-06-08 14:12

    It's dripping oil out of it after I moved wires

  45. #45Nige2023-06-08 14:18

    Dripping oil from the body of the switch itself not from the joint between the switch and the housing it fits into.?

  46. #46mike holcomb2023-06-08 14:20

    Wires fell off as soon as I went to unplug, figures. I have 5v at plug with brake on or off

  47. #47mike holcomb2023-06-08 14:21

    It has oil up to plug

  48. #48Nige2023-06-08 14:24

    That's not good. Switch is probably buggered. 201-4159 is the Part Number, plus it needs a a 3J-1907 O-Ring.

  49. #49mike holcomb2023-06-08 14:29

    Ok, let me get on the horn, I asked about it this morning when I was there, they didn't have it. I probably have oring in my kit. Thanks for your help, I was starting to get frustrated

  50. #50mike holcomb2023-06-08 14:31

    I have oring, if I pull that sensor out, is it gonna keep flowing oil, or it'll stop at level

  51. #51Nige2023-06-08 14:35

    That 5v will be the pull-up voltage generated from inside the ECM. Just as a test do you want to try jumpering the two pins in the harness connector on the machine side for that switch.? With the engine running the instrument panel should register "park brake off" even before you throw the switch. If that happens you know you've cracked the problem. Simple answer, don't know. Personally I would leave it in there until you get a replacement then swap them out quick. BTW it's only a pressure switch, not a sensor. It opens at approx 58psi with rising pressure, closes at 50psi with falling pressure.

  52. #52mike holcomb2023-06-08 14:48

    No good, light still on with a jumper in the plug

  53. #53Nige2023-06-08 14:52

    Engine running.?

  54. #54mike holcomb2023-06-08 14:52

    Yes

  55. #55mike holcomb2023-06-08 14:57

    No jumper wire, no light, put jumper in light comes back on. I did bring another meter to check batteries, they do have 14.+ while running, 12.5 off

  56. #56Nige2023-06-08 15:01

    Sorry that was me being stupid. As can clearly be seen from the schematic above the switch contacts are CLOSED when there is no pressure (park brake ON) and OPEN when there is pressure (park brake OFF). If you can change the status of the light by installing/removing the jumper I would say that you've found your problem.

  57. #57mike holcomb2023-06-08 15:13

    It's all good, I'm great full for your help!

  58. #58Nige2023-06-08 15:14

    Unfortunately pressure switches like that one are not like solenoids & sensors, etc. They do NOT create a Diagnostic Code when they go AWOL.

  59. #59mike holcomb2023-06-08 15:33

    Good to know, I wish I looked better yesterday, oh well lesson learned. I probably should've walked away when I started getting frustrated, up down,crawling under 25 times haha

  60. #60CM19952023-06-08 22:14

    Good to see your problem worked out.

  61. #61mike holcomb2023-06-09 05:38

    Hopefully later I have time to try out new psi sensor. If not Monday

  62. #62mike holcomb2023-06-12 07:45

    As much as I wanted to say the Brake Pressure switch was the problem, it was not. Still won't switch off brake

  63. #63mike holcomb2023-06-12 07:57

    I now have a 272 code in computer that won't erase, Edit, I got it to erase, still no luck. Where do I go now?

  64. #64mike holcomb2023-06-12 10:02

    Would the park brake solenoid be a little different? I see the new one has 3 ports and the old one only has 2 . The new Solenoid is #269-5774 , idk why the new one says #257-1728 on body? I cant see a number on old one

  65. #65Nige2023-06-12 10:34

    It's hard to tell from the photos. I suggest to put the 2 valve bodies side by side and check if the lands with the O-Rings/backup rings in between them line up. If they do then I would suggest not to worry too much about it. 269-5774 is listed as the latest replacement for 201-2171 which I would imagine is the Part Number of the valve you removed. Below is the image of the 269-5774. 257-1728 should be the Part Number of the solenoid coill.

  66. #66Nige2023-06-12 10:36

    Do you have a 500psi pressure guage.? Hook it up to Test post #7 (should be marked "Park Brake") and with the engine at Low Idle see what pressure you are getting when the parking brake switch is on the OFF position. Try it at High Idle also. Spec is 344 ± 44 psi.

  67. #67mike holcomb2023-06-12 14:01

    I put the old one back in, it opens and closes when I power it up. I don't have gauges to hook up to oil port. I'd have to get some. Idk what they call the specific ends for the port on machine

  68. #68Nige2023-06-12 14:36

    The test procedure calls for a 177-7862 Hose, 2 x 6V-4143 Couplers, and a 6V-3989 fitting to screw into the pressure gauge. 6V-4143 6V-3989 Now that you have 2 solenoid valve assemblies why not try connecting the machine wiring harness to the "spare" one, then start the engine and move the parking brake switch to OFF. Can you hear/feel the solenoid clicking.? You might even be able to see the internal spool moving.

  69. #69mike holcomb2023-06-12 14:39

    I left to go see if I can Barrow some test gauges. I'll check tomorrow when I come back to job

  70. #70mike holcomb2023-06-12 14:40

    I only 1 gauge and fitting to hook into #7 or do I need to hook into 2 ports at once

  71. #71Nige2023-06-12 14:51

    No. Just one gauge that will read in the 5-600psi range, a quick coupler to connect to port #7, and whatever hose/fittings you need to connect between the QC and the gauge. IIRC the internal thread in the opposite end to the 6V-4143 to the QC is 1/8" NPT.

  72. #72mike holcomb2023-06-12 15:06

    Ok, Thanks Edit* He made up a adapter I can just thread on instead of quick connect

  73. #73mike holcomb2023-06-13 10:49

    This morning I tested ports #7 #3 & #4 I have no oil PSI on any of ports. Nige has answered a private message, could the coupler be bad at the Engine and Pump?

  74. #74mike holcomb2023-06-13 10:50

    Why does that coupler go? Is something usually going wrong with pump so the coupler is like a safeguard before it blows pump to pieces?

  75. #75mike holcomb2023-06-13 11:03

    Has anyone replaced that coupler on-site? Or Would CAT want dozer brought into shop?

  76. #76Nige2023-06-13 11:05

    Personally I wouldn't like to contemplate the idea of doing one in the field but I guess it's not impossible. The coupler flange is nylon. It's kinda designed as the fuse but can faill all on its own. How many hours on the tractor.?

  77. #77mike holcomb2023-06-13 11:24

    I talked with Guy in service, he wants dozer at shop to do the coupler, if that is the issue. I told them my diagnosis up to this point. They canceled the road call guy cause he was gonna do samething I did for tests. Thanks to this Page !!!

  78. #78Tinyiko2023-06-13 11:25

    Water bower tank doesn’t want to go down pls help

  79. #79mike holcomb2023-06-13 11:33

    I have no idea what u are asking?

  80. #80mike holcomb2023-06-13 11:50

    7800hrs

  81. #81mike holcomb2023-08-23 10:57

    Update, Cat dealer did the coupler, $13k was the bill. So now 7888hrs machine has come to a stop again! Called CAT they can't make it till Fri. Just went out to look at it, first thing I noticed when trying to move it , it had no speed control, it was down on 1, tried to increase it , it would go up to 2 then drop back to 1. Got it turned around headed to where I wanted to move it to, started going, tried to speed up and it came to stop and gear ⚙️ light came on and parking brake light. Have to check codes. Anyone experience this?

  82. #82mike holcomb2023-08-23 11:08

    I shut power off and back on and got dozer to move out of way, it seems to be pulling to the right when trying to travel straight, rev it up to go faster and the gear light comes on then park brake light and comes to stop.

  83. #83Nige2023-08-23 11:20

    That should be your first step. Let us know what you find.

  84. #84mike holcomb2023-08-23 11:23

    Had a 352 code that I couldn't find and a 251 which says left speed sensor. Wonder why speed sensor would all of a sudden cause problems?

  85. #85Nige2023-08-23 11:42

    I wonder if the Blink Code might be 252 - Service Brake Pedal Position Sensor. If you look at the diagnostics they also tie in with the track speed sensors because the ground wire to the ECM is common for the pedal sensor and the speed sensors.

  86. #86mike holcomb2023-08-23 11:51

    It's definitely a 352. I tried to erase it but only the 252 will erase and it blinks 352 with jumper in, 222 with no jumper. Let me look thru the files u just sent me. Thank you

  87. #87mike holcomb2023-08-23 12:21

    Do u have any idea where that left speed sensor is so I can ohm it?

  88. #88Nige2023-08-23 12:27

    See this thread. It talks about the RH sensor and once you’ve found that the LH one ought to be easy enough to figure out. CODES: D5k2 serial # DW207911 Need to know what CODE IS: > *Warning: "Right Drive Motor" Speed Sensor #2..(Under the WARNING sign is) #2688-8....Where can I locate this sensor? And should I replace it? HeavyEquipmentForums

  89. #89mike holcomb2023-08-23 12:36

    Now that u post that, I did replace the brake sensor on left side and it was full of oil, gonna need to have a look at speed sensor now

  90. #90Nige2023-08-23 12:37

    A sensor full of oil is nailed on evidence that it’s failed.

  91. #91mike holcomb2023-08-23 13:19

    So this plug has some oil in it, not a lot. Sprayed it out, dozer works fine now. Question is , if I replace that sensor does it need to be calibrated so it tracks straight? Or I should be fine to change it? Thought I read it needs calibrated?

  92. #92mike holcomb2023-08-23 13:40
  93. #93Nige2023-08-23 14:04

    Oil in the connector indicates the sensor has failed. You can clean the oil out of the connector now but it will come back again quite quickly. No calibration AFAIK. It should be plug & play. The existing one is likely a 183-4584, or maybe a 319-6491. Look for a white tag or a number stamped on the sensor. Either way the latest P/N of sensor is 360-0453. The 360-0453 sensor may require additional parts to install on your tractor in order to connect to the machine wiring harness. See the SEPD1217 attachment. If you are going to replace one sensor I would suggest to do both at the same time.

  94. #94mike holcomb2023-08-23 14:11

    Perfect, thank you very much. I'll give sensor a try. I ran it last 45min it was fine, it started to pull right again. Unplugged it and plugged back in and it was fine again. So that seems to be problem.

  95. #95mike holcomb2023-08-24 12:08

    Good thing u mentioned the other parts for new style sensor. They had no idea u needed those with new sensor. Basically pins to crimp on and plug they fit into

  96. #96Nige2023-08-24 12:31

    I wasn't 100% sure you would need the extra electrical parts. Ideally you need a Deustch connector crimp tool to fit the solid pins on to the wires.

  97. #97mike holcomb2023-08-24 12:45

    Oh course I took them out of truck a fee weeks ago. Service let me use there's

  98. #98mike holcomb2023-08-24 12:48

    Once I get back I gotta look at machine, I dont remember a black wire on old sensor

  99. #99Nige2023-08-24 12:54

    Should be 4 wires to the sensor. Red, black, green, & white.

  100. #100mike holcomb2023-08-24 13:46

    New sensor is white, blue, black, brown. Machine plug is brown,blue, blue, purple.

  101. #101mike holcomb2023-08-24 14:05

    I got it, the page u gave me yesterday shows the colors and 1234 in plug where they go in plug

  102. #102mike holcomb2023-08-24 14:31

    Thank you! So far so good U are a great help here

  103. #103Nige2023-08-24 15:02

    I was just about to say refer to the document that I uploaded yesterday….