Here we go guys. I decided to start my own thread so I don't muck up tctractors final drive thread with my ramblings. Long story short, I have an older dozer with a lot of new parts that has a final drive making bad noises. I found the tooling & a mechanic if needed from a couple of local contractors if & where needed. I spent a couple hours with the pressure washer tonight cleaning things up & will clear out a spot to do the repair tomorrow. Fixing this old rig might not be profitable but I don't want to be the guy scrapping some good old iron if it isn't too expensive of a repair. I don't want to buy a newer dozer & run into all of the same issues. I'm a little nostalgic as well. I'm not good at taking pictures and posting updates but I will do my best because these type of threads have helped me a lot over the years. I hope to repay the favor with a thread of my own. This may seem like a simple project to some but nothing to tackle for others. I hope to pull both finals for a complete inspection then repair as needed. My 2yo son was helping clean by peeing on the blade. We all do our part I guess. Thanks, Twisted
The good news is, if you do it right and take care of it you should get thousands of trouble free hours from the old girl once it's done. :drinkup
I'll see if I can figure out how to attach a pic. Backing the project into the wash bay. My kid's first dozer ride. He's a good lever puller but needs a little practice to be an operator yet. I've worked with worse.
Congratulations on your new operator He isn't asking to many things or breaking too many yet Hope he doesn't holler to much or sleep on the job. I don't think he's too young for a screen name here how bout little ripper?
Grrrrrr. tough to post pics here. I'll keep trying.........
The boy kid is always happy to help. He slows me down but I wouldn't trade it for the world. I hope he will learn a trade rather than want to play video games. He looks to be on the right track. Here is my progress..... I turned a dozer into a crawler tractor. 3-4' wrenches & a little heat was all I needed. Tracks ready to drop.... These bolts are giving me problems so I may have to go mid-evil on them. Bring out the gas axe. Yes it's repairable. When I find the engineer that designed this tilt cylinder hoes routing we may have words. I may actually run him through this small corridor to teach him a good lesson. I'll clean up the engineer goo later. I ran out of blocks but it's close to being free of track frames. I need to take care of some honey-do stuff tomorrow so it'll be a little slow. Dr. appt I've been putting off for months & mama wants me to shower & not just wipe down with GOJO like I have for the last for 6 months. You wrench hands know the situation.... I hope to be pulling sprockets Friday or Saturday & will take pics when I can. Thanks for looking. Twisted
Yair . . . Good thread Twisted . I will follow your progress with interest. Cheers.
I've never done a thread like this before but the more interest, the more info & pics I'll try to post This will be a first time final job for me with a sketchy manual & some basic skills & tools. Not unlike the guys that did it 30-50 years ago. I'm just going to tear into it & fix until it's right. I admire the guys that fixed these break-downs with an adjustable wrench, torch & a welder in the middle of a field or job site. Those fellows have earned my admiration. Plenty of you here. I have a few tricks up my sleeve & maybe I can share..... Thanks, Twisted
Didn't mean to miss your quote. He's all dad so he'll be asking questions & breaking stuff constantly. That's the only way I learned. He sleeps a little around noon but I let it slide because that gives me a chance to service the equipment.
Bit of advice for you, fire up your motor and suck those rods in and tie the rods to the cylinders with cord, also fit the other half of the rod caps to them, then get rid of that silly bar you have stuffed under the cylinders, if there is no cylinder store brackets on the nose cone use rope/cord over the the rad top to balance them off in a near horizontal position, as this stops you clubbing your head on them some, its easier to split the track chains on the spocket by the way also safer, its easier to join them on the sprocket as well, the 4 bolts that hold the outer bracket to the track frame usualy cause little trouble? before you start making a mess its also worth draining down the F/Drive cases before you start stripping off the frame, oh and pop your clip bolts back into the the track link then you cannot loose them in that dusty yard. tctractors
Thanks tctractors. I'll be honest. My main shop with concrete etc is too small for a project like this so I decided to use my pole shed that I put up last fall. I backed into the shed, blocked up the rig, indexed the tracks & drove it out to drop the dozer. I marked my pads where the split links are & began backing up. I then split the tracks & started to back up. About the time the first link came over my front idler I realized my huge mistake. I was one track revolution away from being inside! oh well. I can shove it in with the excavator or payloader if needed. The silly bar on the lift cylinders is there so they didn't drop down & hit the tracks when they got unhooked. They are going to get resealed before this project is over so they are coming apart anyway. I've always split tracks on the sprockets but I read the destruction book this time. The showed a different procedure that I tried. I'm thinking that the sprocket way would have been better. As far as putting my parts away, I just hadn't yet at the time of the pictures. Mama & the kid came home with the camera & we were visiting while I took pics. I'll try to post up more tonight If I make more progress. Thanks to all for the looks & advice! Twisted.
Looking forward to following this thread. Don't have a lot of experience with undercarriage. Lots of folks here who have. I can relate to having little "helpers". I also have a two almost three year-old "helper" and he has a younger one year old brother. Makes me tired thinking about it, but they are a lot of fun! Those pads are huge. Look ideal for pond work.
To stop the rods hitting the track plates as you remove them from the blade, you tie a bit of rope to the top of 1 cylinder then remove the rod end cap on that cylinder then rap the rope around your hard frame, then suck the rod into the cylinder, then remove the rope and tie the rod to the cylinder to avoid it creeping out. tctractors
That looks a tidy tractor mate.The tracks look good at first glance and it's too good to break if you think the rest is ok.It's going to be expensive one way or another but it may be worth it if you are happy to keep it long enough to get pay back.If you do decide to part it out instead,buy a Cat next time because any money you put into the cat will allways be retrievable. Good luck. I have two sons who mess about in the muck with big Tonka's and I wouldn't change it for anything
Yair . . . After a couple of notable stuff ups I always tried to have rods retracted or, if not possible, covered with canvas or what all . . . on any breakdown it always seems there is need to run out the welder leads for something. Bare bits and splits on cable seem to have great affinity for chrome and like to fizz against a nice shiny rod. (wry grin) Cheers.
This is a learning process for me & I'm learning as expected. Should have the track frame off by the end of the day but depends on how my other projects sort out today. I went to do a simple half-shaft replacement on a Buick & half of the transmission wanted to come with the joint. A little more cutting & pounding & that should go back together. Tomorrow I have a +6 hour drive to meet a business client. It sounds like the press & a mechanic will be here Friday afternoon or Saturday to assist with the sprocket & final separation. The tracks are all good with Trex (I believe) sealed pins & bushings. I haven't measured them but they have many hours left on them. My next dozer will be a Cat. My very first toy was an old D4 7U. Just keeps going at 60+ years of age. I got what was a great deal when I bought this D65. I'm into it for what's it worth now so we'll see what the insides look like. I didn't think anything of buying a Komatsu dozer as they are very common in this area. I found out different when I began buying parts. There may be a few parts floating around with some of the local contractors who used to run these older machines years ago. I'll look into that when I see what is needed. It really sounds like a bearing cage let go & the balls are knocking around. We will all see in a couple more days. I can get plenty of work in the area with it so no problem on getting my money's worth if this repair is doable. Lots of wet, swampy work for a LGP dozer. That is the most common configuration in this area. Off on a parts run. Later, Twisted.
Scrub, now that's the voice of experience... sorry to say I've been there, done that. ointhead
I always suck rods in and tie them up then its 1 less thing to worry about, anyhow I am starting to feel a tad sorry for Twisted as he is willing to pop up snaps as things happen, for the likes of us to prod at, the bar thing under the rams had me smile some but it did work, it just looks a bit un something? the E and the P series tractors are about all you will see in the U.K. as we like boggie's the most common fault with the F/Drives is the top pinion flange working loose on the taper, otherwise they are very good. tctractors
I really hope it's nothing with the top pinion as I was just in the steering case & all looked good there. As good as can be inspected from that compartment anyway. Tctractors, I think you said in your other thread that some metal flakes on the magnet wasn't a huge deal. Is it worth pulling the other side yet, or see what I'm up against with the known bad (left) final & go from there? There were a few flakes on the right filler magnet. I only wonder because it's going to involve a lot of oxy/acty and welding rods to get it apart & back together. I obviously don't want to do a half-azzed job either. I hope this all goes well but if I stick around and post my other projects you guys will see that it's always worst-case when I tear into repairs of my own. I can usually do a repair for a customer in half the time & way less cost vs. my own equipment. I try not to cut corners so it's not that. Just call me lucky I guess. I have a lot more tracked rigs to dig into. I'm an equipment junkie. I'll grab a few "snaps" of those when I go into picture mode this evening.
Twisted, you should hardly need any heat or welding rods on this type of repair, the idea in doing both sides at the same time is to possibly swap gears from side to side so you get the other tooth face to run on, the job is best done outside as it makes for more room usualy, when you pop the casings you will (usualy) find a load of "Cornflakes" at the bottom, these are bits flaked off the bull gear, its something I only see in Komatsu F/Drives, in CAT you just get teeth off. good luck tctractors
I didn't get much done on the dozer today but I'll try to have the track frames off tomorrow. There are plenty of bolts breaking on this old rig so I cut some of the stuck ones off so It was under my control where the break happened. It's getting narrower. Yes my silly bar is still there. Front cribbing. I need to adjust it slightly. From the seat Gas axe got these bolt heads.
A couple rigs I need to get tuned up before winter sets in.......... Anyone here have a guess on the make and/model of these two?
Yair . . . Hello again Twisted , I would feel right at home there in your seat, they are a very useful tractor. I have to say though I have never seen anyone cut bolt heads off as a first option unless of course you believe you can get some heat onto the inside of the trackframe once that outboard bearing is lifted clear. Incidentally I have never "removed" track frames for doing final drives, I just jack the azz-end high enough for the sprocket to clear the trackframe . . . they just rock forward on the equaliser. . . saves a bit of work in my opinion. Others may think different and, of course, if you have machines to lift and shove it helps. Normally in my experience a final drive starts clunking on the furtherest side of the roughest paddock and I am never game to move them once you hear that rattle in the frying pan that was used under the drain plug to check for chips and teeth. (wry grin) With your tight/rusted bolts try pouring some heat in with oxy and get that bolt head cherry red and keep it glowing for a while with out melting or deforming . . . the heat is going "somewhere" and that somewhere is down into the bolt. Try and do this last thing at night because it is best if it cools out naturally. Have a go at again next morning and if it still won't budge heat cherry red again and with a good man on an eight pound hammer hit the head square and level and squish it out to a larger socket size . . . have one handy with a glove and pound that bolt head until you get a decent tight fit . . . cool it out or preferably let it cool down natural and you may be quite surprised. Cheers.
I may have to look at the option of just lifting the rear up. Those bolts had been through a few heat/cool cycles like you described already. It surely wasn't my first choice for removal. They were hot enough that I kept the center of the head liquid for a couple of minutes at least. 5 of the 8 track bolts needed this process as well. It really shows down the process. Thanks for the tips. Twisted
Twisted, I have done more than a 100 F/Drives and have the pic's to prove it, I can assure you jacking up the arse end and leaving the track frame in, is just making something harder to do, I once let a dozer owner convince me to do things his way that is frame left under, the D8 had a 3 leg ripper hanging off its back so I went along with it, what a waste of time it proved, it would not happen again, there is a pic of it in the first few pages of my thread, frame out is the way to go, anyhow your bolt head cutting thing is putting the frights up me as those bolts always undo, plus the fact the more things you damage the more cost and work is involved, on your front cribbing thing I think you need to re-think and find some man sized timber baulks that can go all the way across in 1 length cribbed up, the more timber the better, it also needs jacking up around 6" to 8" to clear the T/ Chain, good to see the daft bit of pipe still on Hire, the above comments are not a slight to Scrub Puller as we all do things in our own way, I get paid for results and have a good name for this style of work, to split the tracks whip out the frames, then blow off the rims and outer case's should be about 1 long days work for me on my tod with a tele handler or an excavator to swing out the bits. tctractors
Yair . . . tctractors . . . and none taken. (big grin) We never had the luxury of a telehandler or excavator . . . just a length of "I" beam welded to the canopy supported by a prop at the outer end and running a girder trolley and chain block. One of our operator/fitters was magic and I remember him and an offsider rebuilding a HD21 final overnight . . . diagnosed just before dark and he told me he would "ring the bell for breakfast" and I better get my azz down there and drop her back into the track frames and button up the tracks while they went and had a sleep. By "ringing the bell" he meant a couple of good whacks with a fourteen pounder to get some good vibes going and get the sprocket pushed on good and tight. We just used a fifty ton hydraulic jack that worked okay on its side as long as the pump was down . . no gauge just a strong young bloke and a three foot handle. We had her running by lunch time, got six hours for the afternoon and the final drive rebuild didn't really register on the log . . . ten hours the day it happened, rebuilt overnight and six hours next day and that's the way it was. We pretty much had parts on hand and plenty of spare pins links and bushes. I would point out we had cable blades and if you just lift the azz end there is no need to remove the blade or even lay the tracks out. Without a hydraulic blade or rippers it is difficult to index tracks to a master pin and we just used to cut the pin out where it suited and make it into a master. The tracks were just left laying on the carrier roller and pulled back and joined at convenient hammer height behind the sprocket. Hope my ramblings are of interest, I think I am remembering things now I didn't know I'd forgot. Cheers.
I'll take all those comments into consideration. The bold heads have corroded over the years & I can't get a proper fit with metric or SAE sockets. I'll do some grinder work on the next ones. Maybe it was a warning to the dozer. A prelude of what may happen if too much is wrong. Going to round up some bigger timbers today. I thought these would work but I just don't like the looks of them. The I-beam across the ROPS was exactly the way I has planned on doing some of the heavy lifting but I can get equipment to it now that it's outside. Thanks, Twisted
Twisted,with the little guy around eager to get stuck into helping his dad,you will need to do a better job with bigger timbers. I often slack in this area and rightly get my balls chewed about it but,even I think you need to do a better job in keeping that dozer up. If you get it higher you won't fowl the track frames with whatever method of removing them you choose giving you less chance of knocking anything over.
I used to have a pair of boxing gloves for one of my D8's for whenever it was towing a scraper.They soon dripped with abit of oil but better than my head blood!! The first D8 I pulled to bits after finding 'cornflakes' in the drain plug during service was abit of a puzzler to a then novice like me(24 years ago).Basically the sick side just had a flaked bull gear which I replaced and naturally did all the bearings anyway.I couldn't swap it as both faces were flaked.There were no chunks out though.The other side which I thought was good was totally wrecked and I was lucky not to have a finaldrive failure.Fortunately I had caught it in time so as the top pinions were sound which was one less headache.I kept that tractor running hard for another 6 or seven years with out futher drama.
Twisted,I have just seen your last comment posted.This was after my posts were posted?????some time lapse difference perhaps.I wouldn't have posted the timber comments had I seen your post.Very sorry
Scrub puller,I just noticed your comment about heating bolt heads up and then hammering them to a bigger size to get the socket on...:notworthy. I had never thought of that.
Yair . . . nicky 68a . Yeah mate it has mostly worked for me. It occurred to me when "doing up" a couple of those horrible D9 bull blades with the ball joint diagonal braces. The bolts holding the ball into the socket on the back of the blade were tight and worn and would barely hold a spanner. There seem to be two things happening. First you get some serious heat down into the bolt for a bit expansion and contraction and then, when the thing cools out, you could probably push a few thou. of feeler gauge between the head and the component which suggests some of the clamping torque has been relieved and you are mostly dealing with corrosion and thread friction . . . it is quite surprising, next morning some of those bolts will back out with a shifter. I should add to my post upthread that the overnight final drive rebuild did not include top pinion which is a whole nuther ball game . . . a tank off clutch out carry on. Clutch out is a nasty job on those dry azz-end tractors. You end up covered in crap and black gunk and grease. To make it interesting the Allis's had drilled bolt heads on the flanges that had to be wired with 1/16" welding wire. There is a right way and wrong way to wire them and precious little room to do the twisting. Cheers.
Scruby, take a look at picture 3 on page 1 of my tread you will see a D8H getting the come to bits with the frame in, I suppose if you have nowt to lift anything with you just have to go with what you have, in the U.K. it is very rare or never to see any tractors sporting a hard frame, it was all open tourers (no cab) or soft cabs with fiberglass roof sections as the common thing, if I was on a road job when a tractor needed bits lifting you headed to a bridge with the tractor as there was always an RB 22 or the like doing the bridge work who would manage a lift for me. I am not working in the Jungle tctractors
My "other job" is getting in the way of the final rebuild but I'll be back at it soon enough. I ordered more & bigger tools this morning. They'll pay for themselves in short order if I'm going to play this game. Located more and bigger blocking as well. I've used the heating & cooling trick countless times. I couldn't budge most of the track bolts with a 4' bar. Heated then let cool for a few hours & all but one came out effortlessly except one which took all of the threads with it. It was weird but four bolts had some sort of grease on them & four were dry. The dry ones came out easier. I'm going to go heat up the stubborn ones now & they might give up this evening when I return. I have my excavator almost ready to go again so I'll run that over to the dozer & use that to pick the frames as I don't believe my skid steer has enough azz for the job. Really enjoying the tips guys! Twisted.
I noticed a top carrier roller leaking on my dozer. Bearing feels good & lots of material left on the roller itself. Is that a straight forward repair or are their tricks? I have a small shop press & various pullers. I'll try to keep the torch away for now. I figured now is the time to do the repair.
Top carriers usually (wow, did I say that, "usually" lol) ony require a wrench or two and a ball peen hammer, maybe a wire brush. Probably just needs a new seal, or the old one needs a good cleaning, sometimes they just get some dirt forced into them, or even just a hot day and they will seep a bit.
Yair . . . Gotcha tctractors . I saw that picture way back and could see it would be a pain. Of course I am talking mainly Allis Chalmers and even if doing one final we would split both tracks (usually with the gas axe) undo diagonal braces and the saddles that held the outboard bearings to the frame, weld some steel across the chains in front of the idlers to stop it rolling and then up it with the jacks and good solid timbers . . . sitting nice and level on the rollers with the frames braced by the "C" frame it was stable and safe. It would be jacked high enough for the sprocket to move sideways across the trackframe preferably suspended by a chain block hanging from a trolley or sometimes on a greasy pole. The Allis azz-end all ran on tapered bearings and it could take a while to set the countershaft preloads and then pull it all a part and fit the gears. I think Cat and Komatsu with the straight rollers are a better system and not so susceptible to some flakes in the oil as tapers. Allis even ran Timken's in their rollers in in that department too they were inferior to Cat. I will have to scout round for some pictures . . . when they were taken you just never think they would be of interest to others. Cheers.
We always like pics & they really help a thread. I'm not doing this for me as much as the next person who comes along for advice. I need it too. I did the heat & smash thing tonight & it got one more good bolt loose. The rest may be ready tomorrow. It got dark on me & rather than setting up lights I decided to spend a little time with the family. That keeps all happy. It's been really hot here (by our standards) & after basically riding a desk for the last eight years, I'm having a little trouble getting used to it. Fixing this dozer by myself makes me consider my situation. Should I jump in with both feet & buy better machines or run junk & pick up the scrap jobs? I could have had a lot of billable hours by now with a running rig. I'm going to hire another wrench this weekend to help finish the job if it's even repairable. I have two months to make some coin them it'll be a slow winter up here. I have welding jobs but they shouldn't have to support the digging equipment. I think another hand will speed things up a lot. I'll pop that top roller apart once I see the final is repairable. Thanks again for the tips, Twisted
Twisted,as lantraxo says,they can weep abit for no reason.Don't worry about it at the moment.When you get it mobile (I am feeling confident that you will you can just check it for oil and 'let it develope'. Getting another fitter in is a good idea.You will have both sides off in a day and know what you are dealing with.You will be surprised how better you'll feel once he's helping you and if he knows his stuff he may decide that you could swap sides with some of the gears rather than buying new ones as I'm sure they are damaged but he will have a better idea of the reuseability of them than what you or I would.This may be a simple job of swapping bull gears about and a few new seals and bearings.That's why it's important to do both sides at the same time on this machine and the fitter may save you thousands. I am going to take the bull by the horns and say that this tractor could be running and out to work this coming week and then you will know the condition of both finals.If your fitter does some 'inventive repairs' to the finals and gets you going,you may not feel too bad running it to destruction and put it's earnings to a Cat D6 instead.You have to remember that there doesn't appear to be any oil leaking out of the seals down the inside or on the outside of the sprocket and there is no oil leaking down the outside of the trackframe from the outer hub which suggests nothing has come slack. You will be posting pics of it out working next week.........:drinkup
Things slowed down a bit but it sounds like I may have a service truck & mechanic here early this week to do the tear down. I feel a little better about having some experience to finish this job. D6R & 650JD dozers are on my radar.
Both track frames are off & the left one is slid out of the way. Lots of heat, pounding & 6'2", 240# me on a 7' long bar to get those bolts out. I'm still in disbelief that I didn't break any tools yet. That is a good testament to Wright brand tools. I'm just waiting for the mechanic to show up with his service truck & the goodies. Sounds like one of the next couple of evenings depending on his schedule. Time to finish up the excavator & put that back to work while I wait now. Twisted.
I unfortunately torched off four bolts that I had to remove today. Three of the four came out today after welding new nuts to them & a few tricks. The other one broke off flush. That one is not impossible but I'll do a little thinking on how to best extract that one. I've been to that party before so not a big deal. I still can't believe how tough they came out. They all still took a 7' pipe on the breaker bar. Threads on all of them in the frame will need a little tuning.
nicky 68a. Just a thanks for the vote of confidence! WoooHoooo!!!
I picked up the press & most of the tooling for the final teardown today. All of the mechanics were swamped but they were more than happy to borrow me the items which was great. I had to make a spanner wrench for the outside carrier retainer nut & that came off. A couple bolts broke off on the retainer but they came out after welding on some new nuts. Now comes the big sprocket retainer nut. I got a shop-made socket for that but not much luck yet. I applied heat, a long bar and some pounding. Any suggestions on how to get that sucker off the correct way? I have help coming either later tonight or tomorrow to get it tore down. An extra hand will help. Thanks, Twisted
Three options for getting the nut loose. I've used all three at one time or another depending on what equipment and help you have available and who's watching you; 1. Longer bar and more people on the end. 2. Crane or forklift to pull up on the end of your spanner. 3. Block the end of the spanner horizontal on some timber, start the engine and drive the sprocket in the appropriate direction to loosen the nut.
twisted, if you look at my thread about pulling rims you will see how you undo those hub nuts, Cmark has it covered under "3", the tricky bit comes when you get all confident and full of beans and start putting the rim pull kit onto the hub, you can crack the case, hurt yourself (Possible Kill yourself or others) so make sure you have the correct tooling in the right place, its not something you can play about with as things can fly, plus it would be the end of the thread if things go donk. so get it sorted safely tctractors
I'll take a peek there again tc. Thanks for the concern. I always do stuff with an extra margin of safety. Might be why it takes me so long at times.
Time for an update. I got the big spanner nut off by building a wrench out of 1" plate & welding it to the nut. That diesel breaker bar sure has a lot of torque!!! Next was to pop off the sprocket. Pretty uneventful. I pumped the jack to about 70 ton then a couple taps with a 12# hammer & it was all over. This is second hat to a bunch of you fellows but this was my first. I thank the local contractor for borrowing me the correct tools to do this job safely. It's all over now. These bolts will be a problem. Some came but the rest got the gas axe. The heads were too far gone to retorque anyway so I'll replace if this rig goes back together. After looking at more of the threads here I am very humbled by the skills of some of the members. I do a lot of repairs but am very undertooled for a project like this. Some great advice from you guys, a little help from a local contractor & some time is all it takes to put this project under my belt. Thanks to all! Twisted.
Here's the dirty. I'm not sure what the specific parts are called so bear with me please. Second pinion is hamburger. Bull gear is a little rough but not bad. Bearings all look & feel good. The bearing behind the gears in the last pic are shot. The ones after the first pinion gear. It looks like a bearing & a new/used second pinion will get me going. The little guy wanted to play so I put the tools away for the evening. I can't pass up on that. I wouldn't let him close while I popped off the sprocket. I had him hide in the new to me service truck. Thanks to all for looking & all the helpful comments! Twisted
Don't care what you do about gears but IMHO do NOT skimp on bearings while you are in there. Whatever condition they appear to be in - replace all of them would be my call, especially bearing in mind the amount of work required to split the case open in the first place. The reason being that there has been a ****-load of metal filings flying round in the case (they're clearly visible in your photos) and it only takes one or two in the wrong place that don't come out when you clean everything to completely spoil your day, if you get my drift.
Twisted, I am no expert but you seem to use different tooling to me to pop the rim, please tell me how you supported the hub as you pulled on the rim?? I see you left the big nut on the hub to stop things flying, but where the big nut is I screw on an adapter and put the ram loading to it, by the look of things you put the tension on the outer F/Drive case unless I am wrong, anyhow to press things back together you need the thing I screw on to pull em' tctractors
No expert? Hahaha. I got an adaptor from the same place as the press. They had a nut that has a pipe welded to it that screws onto the dead axle. The end of the press went inside of that pipe with a 1" bar holding things together. So I pulled on the sprocket while pushing on the axle. Is that not proper? That is how they always did it. To press it back on I screw on that same adaptor & there is another piece that goes between that & the rim. So pull on the dead axle & push the rim. I'm not sure how to pull the 2nd bull gear yet. How do they usually come apart? Lots of tons? I'll have to look it over a little closer to make sure I'm not going to bust anything. I have a service manual so I'll see if they have any pics in there as to the proper set-up. Lots of rain today so it's off to the shop with me. I'll pull the rest apart when the rain slows.
Yup I did it wrong. The book shows to leave the spanner nut on loose & to push where the retainer bolts on with 8 bolts. It would be the same as pushing off of those threads. I put all of that load on the bearings. I'll know better for the other side. I'm glad nothing broke. I'll have to check with the guys & see if they have that piece also. They said it's been close to 10 years since they've done a -8 & we had to dig around a bit for the tooling. Thanks again, Twisted
Sorry Twisted, ya' mucked up, well the important thing is you seem to have "Got away with it" and no injurys so things are good, by pulling on the dead shaft all the loading goes against the outer cover via the bull gear as you pull on the rim, this usualy results in the outer case smashing on CAT kit, the thread on the big hub nut is the area this loading should go to, the re-fitting of the sprocket (rim) onto the hub is done using the adaptor that screws onto the hub and a pressing sleave, the 1 piece is pulled through the other resulting in the forcing of the splines together, without this tooling all you will do is possibly damage the inner bearing and crack the Duo-Cone seal set, I know this is your first effort at this job and credit to you for making me look good, so please look at the job to understand how things should happen, the best way to get your head around it might be with the outer case removed to see the form and function of the task in hand, not wanting to take the **** but the silly bar under the hoist rams was sorta' an eye popper but you need to get this detail correct, else all your effort and cost will be wasted, I know you have the brain to sort it you just copped the wrong advice off the people that own the (CAT) tooling thats been fettled to have a crack at the Komatsu rims. tctractors
Twisted, I have the adaptor that bolts to the front face of the hub, but I just use the threaded sleave adapter and leave off the hub nut, but the important thing is you can see how things need to work, the load to pull the rim did not go through the bearings, all the load was placed onto the outer gear case. tctractors p.s. in the outer case you will find a large plain bearing that helps to support the hub, they will need replacing, so will a few other roller bearings, the intermediate gears press to bits not to bad, they als have a long nut and bolt thing poked through them that is pinned, the top pinion is the important gear to have good.
It was my bad but I got lucky enough to get away with it this time. It won't happen again I hope. I see how it all goes together (and apart) now & also how bad things could have went. I took the advice from the mechanic who has done a number of them but it was quite a few years back. I'm sure he did it correctly in his day but just had a bit of memory failure when he didn't see the proper tooling. I'll swing by their shop & search out the rest of the correct tooling. They run a lot of Komatsu equipment so I'm confident they have the bits but we just didn't see them the day I picked it all up. I have the correct pressing cone you speak of so it's just the piece to transfer the force to the hub Top pinion & bearing look to be in perfect condition so that is good. It looks like the rain will break soon & I can have another crack (no pun intended) at it all. On a side note..... When paging through my poorly translated service manual I looked at the blade removal section. They also use a silly bar to prop up the front cylinders. I agree that your way to skin that cat is far better but I'm at least at the level of a service writer from Japan. I'm a metalworker trying to wear the boots of a heavy equipment mechanic. I will go tie them up properly right now. I really appreciate you sharing all of your wisdom & experience. That includes everyone who has posted. Thanks. Twisted.
Here's the result of someone pulling against the dead shaft. If you look closely you can see the imprints of the bolt heads around the bearing housing.
I've never pulled the sprocket to dismantle a final drive. So to my untrained eye I can't see what you have done wrong. I'm sure tctractors is correct in what he says and you seem to understand what he means, but it's not clear for me without seeing it up close. For the benefit of this story, would it be possible to show some close up photos when you do the other side, of the right way and wrong way to set up the puller? It could be useful for anyone else who wants to avoid doing it wrong.
I'll have a bash at explaining what's going on without photos, because I don't have any. As always, I'm open to correction on any of this; You've got the 100t cylinder set up with the three legs into the sprocket ready to pull the sprocket off the hub. The cylinder needs something to push against. If you push against the dead shaft, the dead shaft is, for the purpose of this exercise part of the tractor frame, as is the final drive casing. That means that you're pulling the sprocket/hub assembly against the inside of the final drive case until the sprocket breaks free. If you're lucky, you get bolt head imprints on the inside of the case as in my photo. If you're unlucky, you get a busted case as per TCT's advice. Another danger is that some dead shafts fit into the frame on a taper to a set depth. It's possible to push the dead shaft too far into the frame. A similar thing happens when the sprocket is pushed on using the dead shaft to pull against. If the inner hub support bearing is a straight roller, the hub is pushed against whatever is behind it. If it's a taper roller, the bearing can be overloaded causing Brinelling. What should happen is that an adapter gets threaded onto the hub and the cylinder pushes against that instead. We should note however that some early Cat tooling actually was designed to push/pull against the dead shaft. It was only with the second incarnation of tooling that the threaded hub adaptor was introduced. As far as I know, the komatsu gear always had the threaded adaptor.
More photos will come. I'm running my other equipment & doing my other jobs to get finances ready for this repair. TCT is correct when he said I did it wrong & I appreciate his knowledge. I took some incorrect advice & made some bad assumptions. The other side will come apart in the correct manner. I'm in the process of getting a price quote for the parts that I know need replacing on the left final at this time. I won't go any further if it is more than the tractor is worth. I'm also seeing what salvage price would be & maybe use it for a downpayment on something better. I used to run my equipment as a side job but now it has become 50%+ of my income so I need to make the decision as to repair or replace the entire machine. This downtime really kicked my butt as it is prime time for work. The excavator has been working pretty steady but I have some concerns with it as well. It's either time to upgrade my fleet & jump in with both feet or take a new direction. Operating equipment & visualizing the entire job through completion is my passion & I've done very well at it but it might not be in the cards if the breakdowns keep coming. More to come shortly, Thanks, Twisted.
Firstly I would like to explain about the method that CAT had set up to tackle their F/Drives, on th early CAT's D2 through D8 they used a spacer fitting like a top hat that fitted over the dead shaft and mated up with the hub to put any load only onto the hub and sprocket when pulling the sprocket, this was a right fiddle as you had to support the hydraulic cylinder and all its bits to tackle the job, then CAT put forward a new method of sprocket removal that 1 man could do without all sorts of lifting gear to support the cylinder etc, in amongst this as "The Firm" thats me by myself, I soon worked out that I could screw on to the dead shaft the small adapter that is used for pressing on the sprocket with a suitable spacer plate between the adapter and the hub, this ment that I could poke the hydraulic cylinder rod into the adaptor screwed onto the dead shaft so the cylinder was self supporting then connect all the legs from the cylinder case to the sprocket and pull the sprocket free without putting any load onto or into the dead shaft as the tonnage is pumped into the cylinder, to press the sprocket back on the hub the same adaptor and fancy spacer plate? is used to push the hub back onto the inner taper bearing, then a tube type pressing sleave is fitted over the dead shaft that conects to an adaptor collar that is pinned/fitted onto the cylinder, with the cylinder rod being pinned to the adapor screwed onto the dead shaft through a slotted window in the tube, then you press the sprocket onto the hub to the ton spec' set down, all the load is taken on the dead shaft and the back taper roller bearing in pressing the sprocket on, D8H/K' and D9's are removed and refitted in a differing style that needs a threaded hub adaptor also bearing press sleaves to handle this type of repair. Twisted, I hope you have not asked Komatsu for parts for this tractor, as there is non O.E. parts about that are first class, we have a Co' in the U.K. (Kedgeworth) that are top rate for these items at a very good price, anyhow you need to poke the other side to bits to swap all the worn gears over (side to side) to run on the fresh face, after this task has been done expect about 10 years out of the tractor before any other trouble or need to look inside this area again. tctractors
Take your part numbers, run a few in the parts search on Machinery Trader and Rock and Dirt, you'll find lots of outfits selling. American Crane and Tractor is one of my favorites, and Regal, there are several other good companies out there.
A few more verbs to keep things going some, the case that Cmark posted in the pic is off a CAT D9G or H series tractor, the threaded adaptorsthat screw onto the hub are only used on D8H/K and D9 tractors in the CAT range of standard drive F/Drives, all the others D4 through D7 use the dead shaft to press on the sprocket, Komatsu I also think have always used the threaded adaptor that screws onto the hub to push on the sprocket, I must say the Komatsu F/Drives never failed much, the usual thing was the duo-cone seals being worn out. tctractors
Twisted, if you dont manage to find the correct tooling I can tell you how I managed to do a 65 before I landed the taylor made pushing adaptor it worked well with just a small bit of facing off in a lathe afterwards tctractors
I've been in contact with a couple heavy equipment mechanics that have complete service trucks. This project has wasted too much of my time so I'm going to hire the rest done. I'll obviously help but my time is better spent operating while leaving the big wrench projects to the pros. I found a D6C close by with a manual angle blade & a good price. Rebuilt transmission. I know they're very good machines but are there any weak points to look for? Thanks, Twisted
As good as what you have, could suffer same needs yours has. Do oil samples, get a good history and then your back at the used equipment lottery, I don't understand why everyone wants to make payments to the bank and not the mechanic, looks like your on top of this one, just hammer down and put her back in the dirt, like TC said you know what you have then, and get on pushing.
Take it from me, just because they have the truck don't mean they will do better than you. Quality comes from the heart. I've cleaned up enough of the shiny new truck (dealers) jobs with my old wrenches!
Twisted, I am sad to read that you have lost your steam on this job, lets hope the new "A Team" get things sorted for you, it can be a struggle trying to wear to many hats, I do quite a few jobs where the owners do all the crap stuff like cleaning bits off or bolting up the stuff they feel confident to tackle, it often seems that when I hit the job the pressure is on as soon as I get out of my Charabanc as the customer wants the miracle to happen fast usualy due to lack of coins, so I can well understand you stance here so lets hope the outcome is good. The D6C is not to be compared with the Dash 8 LGP just drop a tape over the blunt bit at the front? the C series tractor is of some "Vintage" now and has more ability to break your heart that your Bride, its not for me to say but after poking a good amount of coins at the Komatsu, plus the arival of the "A Team" with a truck full of toys, they should be able to get things back together (both sides)in 4 days max if the top pinions are o.k. so I would stick to what you have as the Dash 8 is a top built bit of kit that manages to do its job with ease. thank you for your postings also thank you for putting up with my comments tctractors
I'm running in circles a bit with this dilemma right during my busy season. After a couple days of pulling levers on the hoe & running some numbers I have decided to definitely fix the D65 unless it's a $20k+ repair bill. I will know what I have & it is a fine dozer. It's exactly the machine that I want for the jobs I do. I have a good 2 months of work left until the ground is froze hard. I finished a ditching job at dark tonight so tomorrow I will be investigating the correct mechanic to lend me a hand and start getting a parts list together for a quote (non-dealer). The D6C would have just been a bad knee-jerk decision to get going easier & quicker. Not the best path for the future. A D6R or something close will be a much better choice down the road. The machine I need replaced the most is my old wore out excavator. I've owned it for about 10 years & it's paid for itself many times over. Fix the dozer & take a loan if need be. Put that back to work & shop for a good deal on an excavator. I have my eye on a 200LC-7L Komatsu at the moment but no purchases until the dozer is back to work. I also sell used equipment for an auction company so I get to lay my eyes on a lot of rigs (mostly ag but construction also). I'll snap some more close-up pics of the bad parts tomorrow because we all like pics & they keep a thread interesting. TC, I really appreciate your comments as well as everyone else who has posted. Great advice here as usual. "A Team". "I love it when a plan comes together!" Some of you will catch that one........ Thanks, Twisted
Sorry but it was too dark for pics when I got home today. I'll have a mechanic from the dealership here tomorrow. It's 100 miles away but they have a job close to me. He will bring all the toys to get this dozer apart. I'll inspect then order the parts & have them return to press the goodies back together. I can handle the track frames/tracks/dozer just fine. If the right side looks repairable this outfit should be making money in a week or so. Thanks for the views & all the advice. Twisted
Twisted, are you planning to swap sides with the bigger gears? Or to put it another way, how do the front and back sides of the gear teeth look on the side you have apart?
On the side I have off both faces are worn some but the forward side is worse. The plan is to swap but I'm not making any assumptions until both sides are off.
Well the dealer was a no-show yesterday. They rescheduled for this coming Tuesday unless I wanted to pay 6+ hours of windshield time to do a couple hours of press work. Frustrated but the jobs are rolling in for the excavator & skid steer so I'm busy. I talked to my regular customers & they're willing to wait & see what happens with my dozer since there's still time before it freezes. I told them no hard feelings if they go to a different contractor. That's how the ball bounces. I haven't been home during daylight hours so no pics yet. ASAP. Thanks, Twisted
Twisted, as you had the rim pull kit less an adaptor that had gone awol, is this why you now are intent on getting the A Team in to pick up the cream bit because of this missing item? as you can lash up something that will pull and push those rims with a few not hard to find bits of iron? people will mess you about just for the fun by the time the "A Team" turn up there could be a tree growing around that silly bar. tctractors
The reason for the A Team is so it gets done properly with the correct equipment. It's just me working on it by myself & I'll consider it a good investment & a learning experience that I will have in my book of tricks for the future. Secondly I've found enough work to keep me going all of the daylight hours then some. No end is sight for a while. Once the dozer is up & running there will be a lot more. I will be here to assist during the pressing operations so I'll catch all of the little tricks. I visited the contractor that borrowed me the tooling & they don't have the proper pieces & by the time I make them for this one-time (I hope) job it will be more time & money spent. I do see what is needed & could fab something up if there is a future need. There are many projects in the field & in the shop that I am well tooled for & do very well. I'll pass on this one this time. The good news. I found some very good used gears & such at a very reasonable price. The final could be almost destroyed & I'll still be able to replace the bits within a reasonable budget. I was very happy to see that quote. It's all looking up now except the week delay. Let's keep our fingers crossed for a good top pinion on the right side! TC, I'm considering mounting a silly bar holder to the dozer in case I find another use for it while wrenching on it in the future. Thoughts?
LOL, just weld that bar on in a prominent position somewhere so every time you post we can all chuckle!
Maybe a picture under your screen name, avatar the silly bar. Some times we just have to laugh at ourselves.
If I could change my user name to "silly bar" I would. Any Mod help here?????? You all would not want to know where "twisted" came from. It's soooo silly. I'm really excited to finally move forward with this project. It will be done a little late but looks to be on budget.
On a more important note, dont be scared to swap all the gears over in the F/Drive to run on the other face, do not worry about slight marks on the back face of the teeth as thats the common thing with Komatsu, they will be fine and go on for 10 years? the Contractor with the rim pulling kit with the dead shaft adaptor to fit a Komatsu should never touch any Komatsu's, as he would only be damaging the tractor if he does not have the correct tooling, if your tractor was in the U.K. I would have it sorted for you over a weekend or what ever, I did think of posting a picture of the correct tooling that I have 2 sets of and No Komatsu's to use them on, but it seemed a bit of a **** take but I will take a snap just cos' I can, anyhow I am happy to hear that you are busy earning a few coins and keeping customers content. tctractors
Better pics of the correct tooling would be good to see. The contractor probably had the correct tooling at one time but he's good for borrowing his stuff out. People aren't good at returning all of the pieces to him.
Time for an update. The dealer sent out a mechanic & a service truck. Beautiful set-up. It all came apart without any trouble at all. Top pinions both looked perfect which is great. First bull gears on both sides have some slight wear but no pitting or anything that looks to be of concern. Second pinion looks great on the right side & may have been replaced at some time. Left side is terrible & the teeth are all tore up. Both second bull gears are worn & pitted pretty bad & will need to be replaced. One floating seal is cracked (probably my fault during the incorrect pulling procedure). The big brass bushings inside the outer cases are shot. All the roller bearings look good so far but I'll know after a better wash-down & cleaning. So far it looks like I'll be into it for a lot less that I was thinking in the first place. No camera until later today & pics will come when it returns. Thanks for looking. Twisted
As posted previously - don't skimp on replacing bearings. It'll bite you in the *** further down the road. TBH I would just replace them all ..............
Twisted, you should swap all the gears you can from side to side, the large bull gear (the 1 on the Hub) needs to be swapped complete with the hub to the opposite case at least, dont listen to any crap about gear wear matching other gears, just put anything you can thats good from the left case to the right case and from the right case to the left case, that big brass bushing is when new a white metal faced bearing like a crankshaft bearing, Nige is not wrong about the bearings, but in the past some of my customers have told me to re-use the costly twin path bearings on the hub, I must say they never seemed to be any trouble, as for the Duo-cone seals these are always replaced as the cost is very low and its an item that needs to be renewed at any repair like this. tctractors. p.s. dont let anyone cut out bearings from any case with a torch, use a welder with the earth clamp on the bearing or use the correct puller.
The bull gears on the hub are shot. Both faces on both gears are bad as the pics will show later. The upper bull gears look good but I can feel a slight bit of wear with my fingers. The problem is the left side has the wear on the forward drive side but the right side is worn more on the reverse drive side so swapping gears won't help anything. They are both is nice shape so I'm not too worried. There have definitely been fingers in these finals before so there has already been some swapping & replacing of gears, bearings & other parts. 10-4 on no torching out bearings. I should have all of the pullers & have welded out my fair share as well. Roller bearings....... How does a person decide when to replace? They could have anywhere from 100 to 10,000 hours on them. I'm not trying to argue or cheap out but asking for advice. If the bearing isn't discolored, distorted, pitted or worn, what is the difference between the old & the new? Replacing for the sake of replacing is tough for the guy with the checkbook to swallow but I will if required. The cost of replacing all of the bearings is much more costly than replacing all of the hard parts with good used items. I clean, inspect & repack bearings all the time without issue on my other equipment. Thanks, Twisted
I'm having trouble posting pics but this is the right side. Sorry for the confusion.
Pics aren't cooperating & I'm out of patients. I'll try tomorrow when I get home. Thanks to all for looking & I appreciate all of the advice. Twisted.
Just catching up on your thread twisted.Glad to see you have took some help as it allows you to do what you do best and earn money from your machinery that is fit to earn.I have to hand it to you on the effort front.Fair play.I reakon you could have completed it given time. I currently have a noise coming from the crownwheel and pinion department on a D8 and apart from pulling screens and filters to reveal the all clear I have done nothing else other than pick up the phone to my healing chap.It's obvious that we need to go into the damn thing and start looking for clues and I have neither the time or expertise to do anything else other than cab and belly plate removal.I will concentrate on doing what I do best and earn coins with the kit that is mobile. I also can't be arsed looking at the thing from my office window.
Parts are ordered & should be here early/mid week. As soon as I get an ETA I will schedule the dealer to come out with the press again. I will toss the rest of the rig together with a hand from a friend of mine. All of the parts are in my shop getting cleaned now.
Twisted, a good wound up fitter should be able to poke all the bits back including the frames and tracks in a good tough day with a bit of sweat dripping, that is if all the gears and bearings are fitted in place, that bit with the R quilled on it is knackered as that rides on the outer support bushing that you thought was Brass. best of luck tctractors
I got all of the parts tore down today & I'm in the process of cleaning things up. It sounds like my new/used parts will be here on a truck Friday. I also go the bill from the "A Team" (Komatsu dealer) in the mail today for the tear-down. $1100+ for a shade over 2 hours of work. They are fired unless they are willing to negotiate on the price a bit. It's less than an hour drive to get here plus that far back. That & the kid spent 1/3 of his time here on the computer trying to figure out how to fit the press to the machine. I had to finally show him how. I'm not paying $550+/hr for their help as I can build the proper pieces in my shop to push everything back together. I'll find better help here for 1/10 of the price. They screwed me on parts this spring but I figured I'd give them another chance. So much for the Komatsu excavator I was eyeballing. I'm happy to pay for good service but this wasn't. The knackered bits are fixed & new bushings are on the way as well. I hope to have the rig back to work sometime next week if all goes well. Thanks again for looking. Twisted
Twisted, the price that seems to be charged for simple crap in the U.S.A. is to me out of this World, I regularly go to sites just to pull down or press up F/Drives, that is the owners often have the blade, tracks and frame removed with me handling all the rest, that is pulling and un-bolting everything upto the main case placing all the gears on the floor on both sides, around £400 covers this task depending on the distance, then the same cost for me to stuff all the bits back together after the owner has done what was needed to rework the gears and bearings, on a CAT 2 gear case f/drive I can rebuild both sides in about 5 hours draw my coins and get off, it would seem that you have had your Pants pulled down on this job. I will post some pic's of a few jobs that I have done in the past few weeks, some would be classed as fair Dogs of jobs but thats what I seem to get. tctractors
I've spent the last 10 years as a project manager/engineer. I did the planning and blueprinting of jobs to seeing them through until completion. I did everything from excavation projects to 100,000sf factory additions to designing and installing automated assembly lines. This one won't fly for me as I have ran into these situations before. I'll contact them first thing in the morning to see what the reasoning for the large bill was. I'll hold my tongue until then but I'm not happy at this point.
Twisted great thread. I'm glad your putting the dozer back together again, I've been down the road your now traveling, many times over, the debate of buying newer, better machines. Not to be the bearer of bad news, but they all break down, need repairs, and are down when you need them the most, no matter how new or nice they are or what brand they are no matter what anyone tells you how great some brand is over another, they all have their downfalls. I'll toss this out for something to ponder over, I've gone to many machines, I have instead of a few nice almost new machines, many used and in good condition machines, so when one is down, I can park it, go run another and have the time to fix it when I get "a round to it" for a fraction of the cost of new late model machines and when those are down, your at where are now, waiting and needing it badly and also making the payments on them along with the repairs. As for the A team's bill, hash it over with them somewhat, but all brands are the same no matter what anyone tells you, unless your on a scale of volume and do enough business with that dealership both buying machines and getting them to do repairs, your not going to gain much by trying another brand. Are there any independent mechanics in your area? Depending on who they are and what they know and do, most are considerably cheaper than dealer prices, chat with others who run similar machines as you have to find them.
Labor was $340 which I have no issue with. $804 for a 70 mile drive is why this dealer gets a bad wrap. When I say that I'm upgrading my machines I don't mean dropping $500,000 on something but I need machinery that isn't at the end of it's useful life. I think/hope/pray this dozer will be good enough to pay for the investment when it goes back together this time. My excavator is another story. Every joint, pin, bushing and bearing is wore out. I have to spend way too much time when laser ditching or cutting fine grades to get the job to an acceptable level. The engine and pump are fine but the rest is rough. Time to send out some bills of my own then get to building some tooling to press that old clunker back together.
$804.00 for travel mileage only? 70 miles that's probably 3 hours driving. Could you break it down more? They can't run that new truck for free, pay for all the tooling ect. We bill out 75.00 an hour and 2.00 a mile, that don't buy new trucks though. 4.00 a gallon for fuel adds up quickly.
When I worked for the CAT dealer, they and other competing dealers in the area would bill out travel time at a rate about $15 an hour higher than the field service rate. You can see the logic behind this, the mechanic gets paid by the hour, driving or wrenching, and when he's at the machine working the service truck is happily sitting there, possibly idling if his compressor runs off the main engine. When running down the highway you have the additional cost of fuel, and the associated costs of tire wear, maintenance, in some states mileage fees, etc. Sometimes insurance costs are based on annual mileage as well. Sucks, but that's the way she is. On the other hand, I think the Kommie dealer is trying to hose you in this case.
Hello! Good lookin' little operator there! Hopefully when he gets big enough to handling the ol' girl on his own, he'll be easy on her! When you are ready, we can help with the repair on the old hydraulic rods. We can straighten them if bent, grind all the junk chrome off and take it undersize, hard chrome plate it oversized and then grind it back down to spec. When finished, it should have 5X the chrome of any new or REMAN that you can buy. We also warranty the chrome for 1yr, but it should last as long as your new operator can keep the machine running when it's his! If necessary, we can have them machined new for less than buying a new one too. Just strap the old ones to a pallet and we'll send a truck to pick up. We have a pretty good turn around. Looks like a great project! We would love to help save you some money on the rebuild. Good luck!
Thanks for the help with the cylinders but I happen to have the best hydraulic shop in the state (or farther) only 3/4 of a mile down the road. I called & left messages with to return call of course. I figured out the bill. It was figured at $2/mile plus $140/hr from the main headquarters even tho they have outlets closer, plus the work done here. Our miles are straight & 60mph. No traffic ever.. never. You wouldn't believe it unless you seen it in person. I'll finish it myself for that price as I can buy the tools for less.
Make sure you quietly and politely let your area salesman for this dealer know how you feel about this, and that if this is how they treat owners trying to grow a business and someday buy some new iron, he needn't bother hoping it will be Kommie yellow. Continue to remind them every chance you get for the next several years. When you do buy a new machine from Deere or Cat or Volvo, etc. have your company name painted on it large and park across the street from one of their stores whenever you can while grabbing some lunch, LOL. Places I worked, the new machine salesmen walked on water, and the Sales Manager was either God his own self or Zeus with lightning bolts in his hands depending on the day.... wasn't right, but they were old school and that's how she was. If you wanted something changed, you got the salesmen to thinking it was cutting into their commissions and lo and behold Moses struck the service manager or parts manager with his staff and the waters poured forth. Okay, I'm done, feeling a bit ill from the memories.
TC or anyone else familiar with these dozers. To press the sprocket back on I need to pull on the hub & push on the sprocket. I have the press, pressing cone and everything except for the piece to hook onto the hub. You have one that attaches to the threads but from the looks of my manual they show one that bolts to the 8 holes (about 12mm) on the face of the hub. Is that a satisfactory way to hook it up? I'm going to spend a couple of hours & whip something up in the shop rather than having the stealer back out. Thanks
Twisted, I have adaptors that bolt on to the end of the hub using the 8 holes, this location is usualy used just to pull off the sprocket, the adaptor that screws onto the big C spanner style nut that made you "bark" some is the location that I use to press things back together, its all to do with the cylinder stroke of the 100 ton ram that you have, the standard travel is usualy around 6" of the rod, I would think 8 bolts ( use capscrews as they are good spec) should take the loading then you need the ram rod to be pinned to the end of this bolted on adaptor, the pin needs to be the correct item or something well-hard, anyhow this has to match up to the outer pushing sleave so as to give you the ability to pin the ram through the outer press sleeve into the inner bolted on bit with enough ram travel (Rod in) to press up the components, there is a fitting that goes against the cylinder press area that also locates into the press outer sleeve, if you can understand that you might be from Mars? years ago Komatsu used keys in the hubs not splines they called them Feathers and I never had the correct adaptor to press things back together, so I welded the big C spanner nut to a made up press adapter and used that, I told the owner the nut was worn out so he bought a new 1 without any qualm, anyhow I used this welded up gizmo on loads of shovels etc untill I bought a ruck of Komatsu tooling, I then painted up the welded up thing and sold it to a Polish truck driver. tctractors
That makes perfect sense to me! Thanks. I would have ordered another nut to build the tool if I would have known how all of this was going to unfold. Now to dig through my piles of goodies to see what I can come up with. I haven't had much time to do any metalwork projects in the shop lately so this will be a nice break.
I too would chat with the salesperson, tell them you can stand the one way trip charge, but the trip home was on their dime if they ever expect to come back again, its what's done around here a lot in order to compete with the independents if they want to do the work. Not to make it feel better, case, cat and deere have done the same thing to me over the years as well, but for me, it was 120 mile drive one way, one of them wanted me to pay for bringing the tooling from another store, adding another 200 miles one way on top the already outrageous mileage and hourly rate, a reason why I have most of the tooling myself and make many mistakes fixing my own stuff. I also didn't mean to buy a half million dollars worth of equipment, but buy another slightly newer than what you have to go along with what you've got now, use the machine you have now for a spare.
^^^^^ Good advice and the direction I am headed.^^^^^
Twisted, I know the U.K. is some distance from MN? (I dont know what M.N. means) but things are often done the same world-wide, that is before things happen you ask the price cost of the task in hand, the 2 skins that turned up only had to realy pull a rim and undo a few nuts and bolts so it should have been easy to price up the job within $100 and you to agree on the costing, the fact that they were learners at the job and faffed about for a time looking at the book but they did manage to do the job asked, the only issue you have is the fact they must have a private Jet to do their travel in by the look of the Bill, I always sort the Coins out first before doing a job so the arguement is nailed square with the customer happy and myself being the same, it would seem that you should have just kept on fettling the tractor yourself and saved a load of trouble, perhapse you might get a few Coins chipped off the bill but its not worth getting bitter about, its just another lesson you have had to learn and keep in you pocket for another time, so if you are unhappy (I would be) with the charge get it sorted and pay up putting an end to things. tctractors
MN means Minnesota, a US state; up where it's too dang cold for sane people to live.
Only one skin showed with the truck but I'm an honest man & paying my bills is a top priority whether I agree with them or not. I was told a price per hour but was surprised by the travel expense. Lesson learned I guess. I got the adaptor built & am awaiting parts to use it on. Unfortunately the supplier called me this morning & said the shipping company didn't pick them up yesterday as promised so it will be Monday for parts now. I wear a lot of hats so finding work isn't a problem but scheduling them is. I'll try to post some pics of the tooling I whipped up after a bit. On a good note, it looks like I lined up a good bit of work in my shop this fall/winter. It involves building welding jigs & misc. lifting and handling fixtures. That will really help considering how my digging gear has been treating me lately. MN (Minnesota) is the furthest north state except Alaska in the USofA. I live in the northern most part of it. It does get cold here & most people that weren't raised here don't last more than one winter season. Mitch504, we take pride in that comment. We think nothing of carrying on our duties in -20*F and it usually gets down to -40*F on occasion. Yes there's a negative with that number. Equipment, gear & clothing are prepared and ready for the conditions. I will say that after -20*F metal breaks more readily so I keep the heavy work to a minimum in temps colder than that. Winter gives us a reason to shut down the equipment and relax (it only lasts 5 or so months). By relax I mean drag a portable house out on a frozen lake & drill a hole through 3'-5' of frozen water so we can catch fish. The rigs earlier in this thread are used for that very reason. Anyhow I digress. I'll try to get more pics up this evening when I settle for the day. Thanks again for taking a peek. Twisted.
Waiting for a customer so I'll try to post quick. New tool. This will bolt to the hub & hook to the rod on the pump. The top tube with the pin hole is a little thinner than I wanted but it was all I could find. It is 1/4" wall CroMo DOM so I hope it holds. The pressing cone will go around this contraption. It took a little figuring to get all of the lengths right so the pins in the new tool and the pressing cone line up during the whole process. I think I got them right. Little guy helping rework the lowboy a few weeks ago. What a little timesaver. hahaha. You fellows with kids know how they can bring a project to a complete halt with a simple "Daddy, will you please play with me?" The service truck of gold. I guess they have to pay for them somehow.
Yeah we usually quit work when the temp gets below 20* here too. (note: no minus sign) Seriously, we probably only get down that low 4 or 5 nights a year, and usually have 2 or 3 days a year when it doesn't get above freezing, so it's not worth being prepared for it. It is aggravating to go to work at 27*, it's 55* in the afternoon, and 38* when I go home, seems like I change clothes all day
I actually like the cold and the attitude that comes with it. It's a good separator for the good workers vs. the flunkies. I'd be glad to take any of you guys that have posted on a 5-star fishing expedition on my bill if you would make the trip here on yours. I'm sure you Walleye fishermen have heard of Lake of the Woods. I might have to post some fun pics somewhere. Where would the proper place be for fun stuff so I don't hijack my own thread?
Twisted, I like your work ethics, and attitude to get it done and doing lots of things, you should try to find a older service truck with a crane to add to your fleet, nothing fancy, don't think you would regret it one minute. Throw fuel tank and transit and all in it, even the car seat,
I actually just picked up an old service truck. I was destroying my 2011 F-350 with dirt & grease. I picked up a 1980 Chevy C30 dually with a handmade service body, 225 gallon tank, 20 GPM pump, and a gin pole set-up on it. Not pretty but I only paid $600 for it plus another $100 for some well needed parts. I tossed my Lincoln welder, an air compressor and a handful of tools on the rig. I've been on a couple of service calls with it already but I apparently didn't charge enough. I still need to add tools and a torch as money allows so I'll just have to transfer in and out of the shop for now. It will be handy as heck to chase my equipment with plus a good money maker doing service calls.
Just watch with that big of a tank, your drivers license might need an endorsement.
Twisted, nice looking fabrication job there.
Thanks Randy. Metal fab has been my passion since I first started hardfacing equipment at about 10 years of age on my Dad's farm. I'm sure he wrinkled his nose at my work a few times. It's a skill that will always be needed and has been a good knowledge base for all of my different careers over the years. I've done everything from repairing farm & construction equipment to welding aluminum cooling extrusions to high pressure pipe welding for some area factories to welding boilers. I wish more kids now days were interested in learning a trade that involves physical labor rather than watching video games. I'll do my best to teach my little guy everything I have learned over the years & it will hopefully give him a fighting chance of never standing in the unemployment line. It's hard to keep him out of the shop at 3yo already. I think skilled labor will be very valuable in another 20 years. Possibly more than doctors and IT gurus even though we all need them as well. He will go the direction he wants and I will support him as best as I can. I haven't been on this site much in the past few years but I'm amazed and humbled by a lot of you guys and your skills. Kudos to you all.
very very true words there twisted. we have got a future generation of kids coming that do not want to work or get dirty at any cost. Especially in the metal/steelwork trades. But this sort of work is always going to be there; computers are never going to do any of the fabricating and repair work that is always around stationary and mobile plant. Workwise today people need to be multi talented in my opinion; it just makes you that much more valuable. And if you want to go working for yourself at the end of the day it just makes life so much easier for yourself too. And those young fellas that come to work with there dads; that's how we all learned a lot of things when we were young; and developed some common sense. We did something wrong we got yelled at or got our rse kicked But we learned to think. And the older we got the more useful we became. Have got all the final drives and track frames apart on my D6; and have got my 17 year old son; who is an apprentice welder engineer with another engineering firm; for 2 weeks to come and help me. And I would be stuffed without him too. We certainly come to appreciate young help, the older we get !
About three years ago I moved back to the town I grew up in , back in the seventies the local community college had a whiz bang machine shop program and in those days the crown jewel in their shop was an actual by gawd CNC milling machine, which you programmed with a paper tape with lots of little round holes in it! Had a great welding program as well. I always wanted to take some machining classes and some further education in welding, so I looked them up online now that I'm close by and have a little free time. No machine shop at all, limited welding program. If you want to become a nurse or a massage therapist, they can fix you up, but there's a waiting list. And this town wonders why they can't get businesses to come here? No trained work force, and I would bet more than two thirds of the unemployed roundabouts couldn't pass a drug test without a month's warning. I have younger friends who are talking now about how they drank the koolaid and took out huge student loans so they could get a high paying clean indoor job when they graduated. There aren't any jobs out there, if you're not already working they won't hire you, and if you've been out of school more than a year without an outstanding job to put on your resume, you're doomed to flip burgers, drive a taxi, or work a cubicle in a call center. As a society we've created this situation, but it can be fixed if we have the common sense and willpower. Sorry for the hijack, soapbox mode off now. :soapbox
Just the other day I had a young "Blade" come to work for me with the agreement that if he likes the work and I can stick him after a month? the job is permenant, the young chap was made of the right tough stuff I thought with his family known to my Bride plus he was Keen, anyhow the first job of the week was on an Extec Crusher involving stripping out the jaws and wear plates and a thousand other things that are usualy knackered on them, I do this stuff by myself near always so it was nice to have someone making headway with me I thought, the 5pm spot I noticed the new Blade seemed to want to pack up for home? but I like to keep at it some untill I can see a few bits stripped out, anyhow Wednesday morning his Father rang me telling me the work is to dirty and full of danger and thats the end of it?? this follows up with a fair bollicking off my bride with the words that she will have to go around and see them and "fall on the sword" to smooth things with the 22yr old lads family??? the odd thing was he was doing the excavator driving as I unbolted and hooked up all the chunks of iron, the most risky thing he did was climb a ladder? it seems that I am now banned by the Bride of seeking anyone willing to give it a pop. tctractors
Twisted,That's a really nice,sturdy looking job you have done on that tool. TC,I'm not going to comment on your little helper.Perhaps I should dispatch Tommy Violence down to you.He would love it.They were both with me until dark last night moving wood logs with me and the wheelbarrow.Both received minor injuries and neither wanted to go in for their tea.They would have worked all night. By the way,Porridge left the fire on in her office.I have singed hair and a bollocking from the Chief Fire Officer.She's currently in Marbella drinking cocktails.
Lantraxco, I don't think there is any "fixing" of this situation. I believe that a time will come where those with the physical ability and mechanical smarts to tackles these big jobs will become very valuable. As you said the tech schools don't even teach these skills anymore. It will take the experience of some good hands like all of you and the odd kid with some desire to learn and achieve. Lever pullers will always be available. There are lasers, GPS, touch screens and just buttons to push in today's machines. Welding a broken blade frame in 24" of mud isn't really something that can be taught. TC, sorry to hear about your new hand. Back when I was 22 I would have put in 12 hr days for you plus worked my regular job just to be around heavy equipment. Thanks for the compliment nicky.
This MN thing has been bothering me some as now I know its code for Minnesota, its taken me a few days for things to flash up in my head but please read on, painted onto the draught frame on 1 of my pals (= more than 1) CAT 666 Motor Scraper is a large red diamond, within the Diamond is the name "S.J. Grove" Minnesota, this Co' I think packed up some time ago? I know that they had the first Quad-Track built by Buster Peterson, this is the double D9G hooked up 1 behind the other to poke Scrapers, I was just wondering if anyone has any form or photo's of their kit or anything to look at. tctractors
"S.J. Groves and Sons" was a large construction company based out of MN if I recall correctly. I believe it was "and sons" anyway. I recall them from my research of older heavy equipment projects in years past. I'll see what I can dig up on them if I get in at a decent time. I had a relative that had 300 people working for him and his partner on the Alcan hwy project across Canada. I was looking up information on him and remember seeing the Groves company name and the huge projects they took on. Does that sound like the one or am I all wet?
Twisted, that sounds a top call to me, I know you are busy but anything would be of interest, esp' Quads and tripple 6's, the Sons bit I am not sure of but there must have been a time before the Sons became of use to the Co' that made things S J Groves, in their day this Muck-shift outfit must have been on top of the heap with the Iron they ran, to order a Quad 9 push CAT (the first sold) must have made some heads rise in other Muck-Shift outfits. tctractors
I have a bit of an issue. Two actually. 1) I have a buggered up m22x1.5 nut & can't find one within 100 miles of me. Of course it's inside the final that I'm reassembling. I can order one in 40 miles from me in 1-2 days but they won't even guarantee arrival this week. I'll get one ordered but is there one on the machine I can rob & replace when another one shows up? 2) Track link bolts. I have Trek aftermarket rails. The bolts for the splice came out tough & I don't like the looks of the threads on a few of them. I measured them assuming metric but they are 19mm and exactly 1.5 pitch. No bolts that size. I called the nearest dealer and they said 3/4" fine. No problem, I'll grab some spare grade 8 in town. I got home and held the threads together & they are slightly different. Different enough that I don't think they'll properly thread but they fit perfect with the m1.5 pitch. .059" vs. .0625" per thread. Any ideas?:beatsme (better than the dealer) I'll get this Komatsu whipped yet and be happily pushing in no time. Thanks
Order the nut from Fastenal online. See if CAT has the 3/4" master link bolts, they have a rolled thread and are way stronger than Gr8 :my2c
That's the direction I was thinking, Lantraxco. Fastenal is where I found the nut. It is ordered. Any tips on installing the thin bushing in the outer case that the hub rides in? Looks like they could be easily damaged if I'm not careful. BTW My parts FINALLY came today and the used parts look very nice. All clean and polished. Thanks Polar Parts . The late arrival was due to the shipping company. Time to start pressing bearings and gears together.
Regarding the bushing. Freeze it in dry ice maybe..? My first thought would be liquid nitrogen but I don't know if you can get it somewhere close to your location. Master Link bolts. Check this link Page 9. They are quoting M19 x 1.5 hardware for Komatsu D65A-8 undercarriage, so it would appear your 19mm diameter measurement is correct. Getting the bolts would be another thing altogether.............. http://www.allfasteners.com.au/media/pdfs/news/6c8349cc7260ae62e3b1396831a8398f_1.pdf It appears the bolts are M19 x 1.5 pitch x 98mm long. Maybe you need to be talking to your Komatsu dealer...?
Where you're at, just leave it sitting on a metal plate until 2AM, should drop right in? LOL
Twisted, I have just pressed up very similar bushings this evening for an LGP CAT, I always fit them under my press as the hammer job is tricky, it can be done if you use a chunk of plate that covers the bearing and club it with a good sized hammer, today for me has been a right drag as all I have done is press off bearings from top pinions and a cross shaft etc (CAT D8H) waiting for new parts from the U.S. hopefully here tomorrow, funny thing is I can get anything Metric in ten mins, the UNC and ANF is getting tricky. tctractors p.s. if you are pressing up the gears and bearings under a shop press thats the spot to press in those support bearings.
With the rest of the "repairs" that I've uncovered on this dozer I'm guessing the last owner used the metric track bolts in the 3/4" threaded hole. They are close enough that a person could make it happen with enough stupid. It took a 7' cheater pipe the entire way to remove them. The dealer should know what thread his product takes and the bolts I removed are definitely metric. Pretty typical for me to run into an issue like that on my equipment. I found some standard track bolts from a local contractor that I can acquire. I'll investigate a little more then git-r-done. I'll chill the bushing down & stuff it in. My shop press should handle it no problem. I had to use the neighbor's press some as it took over 30 ton to push the pinion shaft out of the crown gear.
Here is his obituary. ---- S.J. GROVES, BUILDER OF HIGHWAYS, DEAD Senior Member Of Contractors’ Firm Succumbs After Short Illness. S.J. Groves, senior member of the firm of S.J. Groves & Sons, contractors identified with the construction of many highways in Minnesota, Wisconsin and Michigan, died Wednesday at his home at 4204 Sheridan Avenue South after an illness of three weeks. Mr. Groves was born at Mount Sterling, Ill. June 15, 1839. He came to Plainview, Minn. in 1870 where he was engaged in the freight business before the arrival of railroads, employing teams to haul grain to and from the river port towns along the Mississippi. He was later connected for a number of years with the Wabash railroad. At the age of 67, 15 years ago, Mr. Groves came to Minneapolis and founded the contracting business of which he was head. He is survived by his wife, three sons, Frank M. and C.L (Clarence) Groves of Minneapolis and C. Herbert Groves of Duluth, and three daughters, the misses Minnie and Vivian Groves of Minneapolis and Miss Efffie Groves of International Falls. The Funeral will be held at 2:30 p.m. today in the Johnson undertaking rooms, 1900 Hennepin Avenue. Interment will be in Crystal Lake cemetery. Source: The Minneapolis Morning Tribune, Friday, December 9, 1921
I'll try a couple of pics again. Here is the culprit that caused all of the problems. The chunks were coming off the second pinion and getting to the bottom of the case where the second crown gear was grinding them up causing the clunking. I had to take after the case with the grinder to clean up the carnage. My main operator and I were coring out topsoil and spreading gravel for a pad today. He was enjoying it as you can see.
He'll be a top hand lomng before he's old enough for a driver's license! I gotta give you a pat on the back, I think you caught that final right before it decided to be REAL expensive!
Tinkerer, thank you for the Post on Mr Groves it was very interesting, he managed to keep top-side for a good few years (82 odd) it would seem that it was his sons that bought the first Quad Track and also owned 1 of my pals 666 Scrapers, they must have been some Muck Shift outfit in their day, I am going to find out more about this Co' so thank you again for your trouble as your post increased my interest considerably. tctractors
Tc.i have a book that has pics of sj groves up at tge yard
You are more than welcome tc. S.J Groves did a lot of road work years ago here in Illinois,USA. They were good people to work for.
Final gears are all stuffed back in and outer cases installed. I know it's been a long journey but working all by myself and tending to my other fires takes some time as well. I was able to go sort out a D65P-8 for a guy down the road a ways and he was very happy with my knowledge of these dozers. I don't claim to know much but I've had mine tore down a bunch so I now have a good feel for the inner workings of the back half anyway. He had gotten a lot of bad advice and I was happy to spend about 20 minutes adjusting it all then another hour showing him the proper operating procedures. I'll try to nap a couple pics tomorrow but I'm sure it's nothing new to you folks. We'll be pushing dirt soon!!!!!
Well it took long enough but I took the old Komatsu out dozing yesterday. There are some new fences going in and the owner wanted them cleaned out first. Willows and brush up to 10" poppler trees and LOTS of rocks. I hate rocks especially with an LGP. It was right across the road from me so a good place for a test drive. I'll finish that up today them off to the next job. Thank you all for the advice and support on this project. I hope to repay the favor sometime.
Keep a close eye on the magnetic plugs on those rebuilt finals as they bed in. A "paste" would be normal, sharp and or big lumps could mean trouble but a lot depends on exactly how well the nooks & crannies in the cases were cleaned out. IKve seen it before where we thought a case was well cleaned and it proved us wrong.
Twisted, its a "Well Done" shout from me, I did put a picture up in my sprocket thread of the correct press tool along with the Nut to study some, I hope you manage to sort out something with the A team tuck-up, the series 8 tractor is a cracking unit that works well with a blade or a bin (Scraper), keep your eye on the injector pump for oil leaks and the mounting bolts on the saddle it sits on and she will keep pushing. tctractors
Thanks Nige & TC. I saw the pics of your tooling. Amazing work by the way. Everything seems good with the finals. No leaks, no bad noises, only a very slight "whirring" noise when going in reverse. I'm guessing it's the straight cut gears adjusting to their new neighbors. But all is still not well........ My lingering steering problem is back. A little history refresh. Badly maintained and abused machine (unknown to me) I bought for the cost of the new undercarriage at an auction a while back. I found filters & strainers plugged & bypassing, linkages way out of adjustment and anything else possible. In the process of sorting out the issues I installed all new filters & strainers, a new steering pump and finally a complete rebuild of the innards of the case. This included honing all of the bores and cleaning up any scratches in the steering control valve that was damaged & sticking from all of the trash getting pumped through it. Here's what it's doing or not doing. When cold everything works as it should. After about a couple of hours when the oil warms up I start having problems. The clutches don't seem to be releasing and the braking is weak. I would guess a pump problem but the right side is way worse than the left side. They should act nearly identical if it was something common to them both. But.... It is happening on both sides. It is more pronounced at lower engine RPMs. When I disengage both clutches the machine still pulls slightly. If I drop the blade it will bush up a few inches of dirt then stop. Should they release completely so there is no movement on flat hard ground? When the blade is up & I'm doing a turn the engine lugs down a fair bit like the brakes are pulling but clutch is not releasing enough. No brake at all on the foot pedals but this may be an adjustment issue when I had it all apart. I'm pretty sure I set them correctly. I'm going to look through my manual for a while and see if anything pops out at me. Seems to be low pressure issue but caused by what? Control valve bypassing? Pump scored again? I replaced every seal & ring in the steering case and was very careful during installation so unlikely it's in there. This problem was there before the case rebuild but I figured it was all of the stuck & wore components. I need to repack my lift cylinders and get this steering issue so I can have a perfectly operating dozer. Any suggestions or troubleshooting tips now that I hijacked my thread? Thanks, Twisted
Twisted, did you manage to get any photos of the right way and wrong way of setting up the puller? I appreciate the explanations of Cmark and tctractors, (who I know are specialists in their field from posts in the past) but I still really have no idea without seeing some photos of it. I don't understand what they even mean by "dead shaft"?
Plant, I didn't get much for pics during the install as I had help for a very short time & we wanted to get done quickly. I will however try to explain as best I can. You can look through this thread or even better, TC's thread on sprocket removal has lots of great pics. The dead axle is mounted to the inner dozer case and does not turn. The bearings inside of the hub are supported on this dead shaft and the hub turns on those bearings. The sprocket is then pressed onto the hub. The idea is to pull and push the sprocket off or onto this splined hub. The axle is just supporting things. The tool I pictured earlier (one I built in my shop) has a hole in the small end that is pinned to the rod of the press cylinder. The 8 small holes are then bolted to the hub. TC's tool threads to the outer part of the hub but the principle is the same. Now the press is firmly attached to the hub & not the axle. To pill there are 3 tie-rods that hook on the barrel of the press cylinder and also to the holes in the sprocket. By pushing out on the rod of the press the force is pushing on the hub face and pulling on the sprocket at the same time. I should note that this whole contraption needs to be supported which you will see in the pics. It's basically the opposite to press the sprocket back on. A piece of tooling is attached to the hub again and a "pressing cone" goes around the hub tool and makes a solid fit from the press barrel to the sprocket face. Now pull on the hub & press on the sprocket by pumping the rod of the press closed. I hope this explains things a little better. As far as my steering issues. I'll go get them sorted out today. It's pretty simple stuff but I was at the end of my rope yesterday after all this time and money and still no working dozer. I was feeling dumb for even asking such a simple question after I cooled off a bit. I'm loading up tools, gauges, manual, and supplies in the Ranger now as I can't get there with a truck. Hot here today and a huge festival in a town down the road but I better keep working as the weather looks to turn tomorrow & no nice days in sight. Thanks, Twisted
twisted, stick a clock in the high pressure filter head (bleed plug) first, this will see the top standard oil pressure, then you can move on to the test ports at the back, if you can see into the bevel gear via the blanking plate on the back case you can spot oil waste from the steering valve, as the valves can wear out and dump to much oil, on the brake adjustment firstly make sure the pedal park brake is off, then screw the adjusters up firm and back them off 6 klicks (1 full turn) to start off, then inspect the peddle hight to bring thing even by undoing the high pedal adjuster, if you need the pressure standards and flow values I do have all that stuff. tctractors
Twisted,note TC's comment on 'firstly make sure the parking brake is off'.It's simple stuff,but I covered a shift on a d8 on Friday and decided the brakes needed pulling up abit.Rather than stand it for a few minuits I did each one between pushing loads over from four dumptrucks.The left one pulled up nicely and after pushing over some more loads I shut the motor off to do the right hand side one(the pto spinning around next to the cover aint good!).Anyway,I took off the cover and noticed something wrong with the adjuster.It was too far back to get a spanner on and it was a few brief seconds of stomach churning before I realised I'd left the park brake on! On another note I'm genuinely gutted for you that it's still giving bother and sincerely hope you fix it up soon.
Main relief pressure is correct when I first started it up even at low idle. All others were good except the right brake which was about 1/2 of what it should have been. After about 20 minutes the oil was only 100*F or so & I had to be well over half throttle to maintain pump pressure. I'm assuming either the pump or main relief is weak causing low system pressure and probably something in the steering control valve for the weak brake pressure. I need to grab a spare hand to pull levers while I inspect today. I have the specified pressures in my manual but had to convert them to psi. I always tightened then backed the brakes off 1-3/4 turns. It has always worked well if everything else was correct.
Twisted, the brake adjustment is best set by the peddle hight, if 1-3/4 turns back off from firm gives you half travel on the brake peddle thats good, it works out around the10 or 11 clicks, I usualy find the peddle is on the floor at 10 clicks with 6 or 7 clicks giving me a brake, your lack of pressure could well be through oil loss I thought you said the steering pump was new? the fact that 1 side is low tells me oil loss is most probably the fault on the weak side, as for your low pressure you might need to re-visit the control valve, it is possible to test the functions within the valve with a porta pump. tctractors
The pump was new but early on in the stage. I don't really trust anything I did previous to the case rebuild because of all of the trash in there. I'll give your pedal adjustment a try.
After more investigating I found bad news and worse news. It appears the steering pump is weak. I don't have a portable pump to confirm but I doubt it's the main relief valve. The pressure starts to drop after 10 or so minutes of use. I also notice a steady stream of oil coming from the drain in the relief valve so I'm assuming my steering cooler is plugged somewhere. Easy enough to fix but..... A lot of oil is dropping out of the steering control valve even with no levers or pedals engaged. How much is suppose to be bypassing to the tank? The worse news is a lot of oil is spraying out of the ring seals where the tubes that transfer oil to the clutches hook up. Not the O-rings on the tubes but the ring seals just beyond that. It looks like quiet a bit but the clutches are still getting as much pressure as the pump is putting out. The one that has me a bit puzzled is the right brake. Low pressure even when I first start it up. About 1/3 of what is required. There is little to no pedal pressure even with the band tightened all the way up. There is also low pressure when the lever is pulled so I'm guessing the piston and bore has too much clearance because that is the only part in common with the lever and the pedal. The left side is good after setting the brakes as TC suggested. I was hoping to get a break this time with just a pump swap or something but no such luck. I guess this machine should have went to salvage when I bought it.
If the relief valve is weak it will dump oil sooner and more oil that passes will usually make more heat. Does the relief dump oil when cold?
Yes it dumps when cold. I'm assuming it's the relief for the cooler side that's dumping. It's a steady stream about 3/4" so there can't be much going to the cooler. The stream from the relief gets less as the oil temp rises and pump pressure drops so I'm thinking a weak pump not sending out enough oil rather than a faulty relief valve. Speeding up the engine brings the pressure and flow up as the oil heats up. I'm going to go look at a neighbor's d65 that I worked on last week and compare the amount of oil flowing out various spots so I have something to compare mine to. His works perfectly after I set his brakes up. His is also a -8 and only a couple hundred serial numbers older so they are identical machines.
Time for a little update those of you that followed this thread and offered great advise. I got the steering pressure sorted out with a new pump and a little tune-up of the relief valve. It was a combination so I was having trouble figuring it out. I have since put about 150 trouble free hours on this dozer and over 50 of them were billed to customers so that really helps. There are some little operating quirks that I still need to adjust in time but nothing that is hurting the machine. I've been very busy with this and the excavator so not much time to post. It looks like our 10-day weather is going to be good for working outside (a little cool though) which is good. I still have over 100 hours of work that I have committed to and more is coming in everyday. I may be able to put some food on the table yet this winter. It was looking sketchy for a while. Thanks again to all that followed and helped!
A good suggestion would be to keep an eagle eye on the oil condition in your rebuilt final drives. If they have magnetic plugs check them OFTEN for material. After a rebuild like the one you have done it would be somewhat normal for a few small particles to get swept out of deep dark corners of the cases and accumulate on the mag plugs but after a relatively short time this should stop and all you should be seeing is a like a silvery paste which is totally normal for a final drive.
It will be home again for a complete service very soon & I'll give it a very good look. Thanks.
If there is anything on the plugs you are not sure about post some photos..............
Twisted,I hope this machine settles it self soon mate