D6C LGP ser.#90 B1849 This is something which puzzles me since a long time, maybe this isn’t the right place to post this, but because this dozer is our oldest and most precious machine, I thought to post it here. Besides this dozer, we also own an excavator, a backhoe, a bobcat, a forklift and other diesel engine equipment like farm tractors, and mowers. So there is quite a few machines which need to be maintained and serviced. Now some of these machines might get only used 10, 20 or 50 hours in a year. Manufacture recommendations are changing your engine oil every three months or 250 hours which ever comes first. So it has always bothered me to change oil on a machine which has been hardly used. I started to change my oil generally once a year. But even then, if the machine has only been used 10 or 20 hours, the oil has not been really used to the point where it is bad. At the moment I’m using Chefron Delo 400 oil in all the engines, which is synthetic blend. Now my question is, could I potentially switch to a full synthetic oil and use it even longer than that let’s say for two years? Would that be safe for the engine or if not, what kind of damage could occur in first place? Now I also like to mention because we are in Hawaii we always have a very humid environment, which is about above 60% which I believe is also detrimental to any oil. What is your guys take on this? And let me know if I should post this on another place. Thanks a lot Pat
In your situation I would go away from even semi-synthetic to a full mineral oil and change it at least every year. It will be cheaper than the oil you use now so that would be a bonus. I wouldn’t fancy leaving any oil in an engine for an extended time in your humid climate. My 2c, YMMV.
Thank you, Nige So in your opinion, the problem is more the high humidity than what type of oil I’m using. Just theoretically: if I would not be in this humid environment, would it be worth to use full synthetic oil and leave it in longer?
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I'll go with what Nigel says. AI is indoctrinated and artificial with no real world experience whatsoever.
As I see it from when you first start up the engine after a long shutdown temperature and pressure build up inside the crankcase until the point where the engine is shut off again. At that point as the crankcase cools back to ambient temperature and as the pressure inside it falls it should be sucking in humid salty air from the outside environment through the fumes disposal system. That air sits inside the crankcase corroding everything in sight until the next time the engine is fired up. If I were you I would consider firing up each engine for a short period, at least enough to get it up to operating temperature, every week irrespective of whether the machine was required to work or not.
As Nige says,but also consider operating and cycling the machines to stop things sticking up inside pumps and transmission clutch packs etc. I very much understand your reluctance to throw new oil in transmissions every year after 10 hours operating time,but I’d certainly feel better changing out the engine oil every year. I think running them up is definitely beneficial
I still wouldn’t recommend it. Engine oil deteriorates from NOT being used, i.e. engine not running.
I'm not convinced.... Google Search
On one hand, it makes sense to fire it up once a week and push out the humidity. On the other hand as soon as I turn off the machine and it cools down the cycle repeats. Humidity is again inside.
I feel like I opened a can of worms This is such a complex issue with so many different opinions. I think we can trust the oil industry if they’re saying synthetic oils are superior. Sure they make more money on that one, but they are also the ones who gave us the conventional oils. And their research and development should lead to improved products. Hopefully at least.
Another thread somewhere on this forum there was a discussion about synthetic verses mineral oils. What came to light was older engines should use the oil that was designated for the by the manufacturer at that time. In my case I have a marinised 50yr old automotive gas engine that was running a full synthetic oil with a oil cooler. Crusing temp was 95c, WOT at 100c, oil pressure 1bar. I changed the oil to a SAE 30,removed the cooler. Temp now at 80c-90c cruise and WOT. Oil pressure at 3bar. Both gauges are the same. A D6c is about the same era and the listed oil is SAE30 and if it was mine that's what I'd be using and run the engine frequently to combat the condensation. 1hr a month at WOT would be sufficient I think.
Well I dunno but around here it is not uncommon to see farm dozers do maybe 50 hours a year and sit for months and months or even years between starts, and all the oils in them are probably 20 years + old as they are all 1960's machines with no hour meters so no oils ever get changed because they are farmers.
Well... that's the solution to my dilemma... I just call myself farmer and forget about the oil changes
The Delo 400 XLE Syn-blend is not a synthetic, anyhoo. It’s a group III. There is not one drop of PAO in it. It’s just a marketing ploy. It’s mineral oil. It’s really good mineral oil. But, it’s still mineral oil. Go da terminal an' meet my Chevron bruddah on Kaiwe Street. He hook a brudda up. Mahalo plenny, yeah?
Hey bro when u throw in da piddgin talk, sounds like you right down da corner. Hawaii Petroleum Kaiwi st. is on the Kona side, I am on the Hilo side. Aloha
Mahalo, Not bad for a Haole living in Alaska. lol. I don’t know any of the Hilo crew. I used to work for their parent company. Well, I still do, as a vender. Nice people. I like the Kahului crew, too.
Absolutely. Bet you did not know how simple the solution really is. And when it requires repairs, identify as a pakastani truck repairer and break out the stick welder (no helmet required) and angle grinder (no safety glasses required)
Don’t forget, you need to do it with bare feet!
So and here is what our friend Gemini said: https://g.co/gemini/share/f7f4fd5b0c6e How I will proceed from here on: I will stick with my Delo 400. I don’t think I will have much benefit from switching to a synthetic oil besides it costing more. I will try to operate the machines more regularly so as to push out humidity and have them moving around and keep everything in motion. After that, if I know that the machine will be parked for a longer period I will try to seal exhaust and air intake so as to limit the environmental humidity, which will go back inside the crank case.
Park it in a dehumidified building ??
That would be nice, but it’s not really feasible
Is your exhaust covered? If it is not, would it make any difference if you put a cover on the exhaust stack? I always put a soup can over my exhaust when I park mine.
I usually cover it only when I leave the machine outside. When I park it under its designated roof, I’ll leave it off. From now on, I will put it back on. I am thinking even when I park the machine for longer to remove the pre-air cleaner and also cover that inlet so that at least as possible environmental humidity can enter the engine.
I'm not an expert in oils or engines but almost every person I respected with dirty fingernails told me to start a machine at least once a month and bring the engine up to full operating temp before shutting it down. Also cycle through the gears and move/drive it if possible. This was also the mantra of our 'motor-pool Mondays' in the military. Getting the moisture out of the crankcase and keeping the seals lubed was more important than what the actual oil was for the machines that sat way more than being used.
Covering anything metal, will create more humidity than you could ever imagine. For my bikes, when they had to reside outside, I was always covering them for the winter, until a couple of times,I lifted the cover to find the entire bike sweating. After that, I would put a drop light under them, all winter. Then, I found it easier, to just coat everything with a good wax and leave them alone. I also changed the oil every spring regardless of miles. Now, I’m not so particular.
It was -20F this morning and the winter has been relentless. My wife is loosing her mind. So, nowadays, where is the best area of the Puna district to purchase a chunk of lava? Madame Pele' doesn’t scare me. Do a permitted yurt. Grow some papaya. Bill Gates is spreading his GMO mosquitos around Puna this week. I’d rather deal with the dengue fever, malaria and Zika vs his Lab -grown mosquitos.
Funny story about covering exhaust pipes. My little community purchased a new $80 million dollar ferry to go between Port Mac and the City of Anchorage. After sea-trials, we had no place to dock or moor it. So, we found dock space in Ketchikan. But, nobody thought about putting a bucket over the stack. Then, it got towed to Foss in Seattle for engine overhauls. $3 million dollars later and new sea-trials, we sold it to the Philippine Red Cross for $1.75 million in 2018. That’s how we do things.
Yes I think you are right on this one; having a machine running more often is a better insurance policy. The only other thing I could think of, would be sending oil samples to lab. But then what? Still doesn't tell you the whole story and doesn't move the machine around.
Oh yes, a tarp over anything (specially in our nice little rain forest) creates an instant green house. Rust, mildew, mushrooms.. they are thriving here.
Well you sound like you lived on the island before? where did you stay? If you ask me: you can get land in lower Puna for super cheap, but....don't cry if da lava comes and da volcano takes it back. And believe me, the question is not IF it comes but WHEN. can take 5, 10 ,20 ,50 years.. but it will happen. We're in upper Puna, usually more rain. But in recent years thanks to climate change it got a lot less. Still... it's wet. And at 2'100 feet it's also cooler in summer and less mosquitos.
We usually stay in Waikoloa. Or, the Waikoloa resort area. The Waikoloa Beach Villas is our favorite, or the Marriott. We used to visit on a regular basis when AK did direct flights from Anchorage. We should have bought a condo, when they were still relatively affordable. We had lots of adventures on the BI. We got married at the Lava-Lava Club, We were there for the missile crisis, the Chinese green space lasers and Kīlauea. lol We love it. What a great place. We even hiked into the lava, right before Kalapana got smacked hard. That wasn’t very smart, but we survived.
Well, you should come here now: since over one year every 10-14 days the volcano puts a hell of a light show...pretty impressive.
I just picked up my Wahine and a couple of her BFF’s from the airport. They spent the week in Waikoloa. I had too much work lined up to leave. Mobilewrench lives on the BI. He’s a very pleasant fella. Good resource if you ever need a good mechanic.