Help me out here, I'm struggling with what to buy. Caterpillar D8, JD 1050, or Komatsu D155, for mostly pushing out stumps, post logging, and then piling them for burning. The logged land, will then be turned in farm fields, and cattle pastures. Thanks for sharing advice on this.
How much are you planning on spending and how much is your repair budget. Post that first and we can give some real world scenarios of what you might be up against. Don't plan on getting a machine that is new for 1 million, and paying 40-60 K and not expect a large repair bill, that will turn it into a lawn ornament. So tell us some more. Simon C
What size trees are you dealing with and are they on steep ground , it can be fun hung up behind a tree you can't reverse back from with the root system caught between the back of the blade and radiator , big is better . When the tree's are gone is the ground to be cultivated . Dragging a set of disks behind a 40 ton dozer is expensive . Matching your dozer to the trees is number one . Are you doing the repair work yourself . Komatsus are a nightmare to work on but need it less , Cats the reverse . I don't think there is anything more satisfying than taking an area of bush and turning it to grass and wish you luck with it .
Well in Canadian money, they are going to be around $2,000,000 to buy. They will get all the maintenance they need, if anything I over maintain equipment. I am only interested in new, not used. This will be the largest dozer I've purchased, but my needs have also grown. All 3 are close to the same weight and hp, but I want to get the most reliable one. Every 2nd winter it will need the undercarriage rebuilt, and that seems to just be a dozer item. I don't think the undercarriage is really much better on any one brand. I'm more interested in the rest of the machines reliability. I've had, or have, Case, Cat, Komatsu, and JD dozers. My current Case, and Cat machines are just too small.
There is definitely more info on this site for Cat Dozers, more parts world wide, more people in the know especially in Canada or US, but in some other countries different brands are popular. Price, warranty, dealer backing you up is important. The finals on Komatsu from what I have seen will last longer than Cat but that may only be in certain applications. Cat are easier to change. Simon C
The majority of trees are 5" to 25", some are 30" to 35" diameter, but 98% are under 25". Once a field has been stumped, and leveled, the discing, planting, harvesting, etc will be done with my Case farm tractors. Regular maintenance, and repairs, will be done by myself, and employees. Although with all the electronics in today's equipment, I'm sure the dealer will be involved as well. The steep hillsides will not be logged, so about the steepest I'll be logging is about 15% grade. I'm logging 59% of my 12800 acres. Until my own land is done, I will only be doing small jobs for others. Once I have my own done, I'll be going back to logging for others more full time. I've been thinking about buying a larger dozer for a decade. But now I will really need it, so instead of thinking about buying, need to actually buy.
Curious why the undercarriage would only last 2 years. Is the dozer going to be running steady all year? I think Cat has optional HD/extended life undercarriage. Being elevated sprocket Cat undercarriage will be considerably more money. Cat likely has rebuilt exchange components that are about 60% the cost of new last I heard. That's a big reason the county I was in bought a Cat D6N. Smaller size dozers but they said for straight pushing power the Komatsu was superior. The JD they couldn't do anything with a full blade. The Cat was the best compromise and being a municipality they got a huge discount.
With all the newer machines now, I wouldn't know which is better. I do know I have been in some bad places with big dozers and would not want the high drive in those conditions. They are nice to wrench on though for finals and transmissions. My all time favorite is a D375, steering clutch version. I am not a fan of hydrostats, tiller steering and all that, its too slow for what I used to do. If your clearing and stumping you need a splitter, and a correct rake, not a weeny thing that will bend, some call it a clearing head. Straight blade is more difficult and a bit slower. And yes do rippers and not a winch. Oh and don't weld junk on the ripper bar to mount the splitter, brackets, brackets and use the ripper shank.
SMS equipment, which is the local Komatsu dealer, has a good reputation thankfully. Better than the Cat, and JD dealers we have here, it seems. I had a Komatsu D61 for 9 or 10 years, it was a good machine, and the dealership treated me well. I am really happy with my Case 2050, but unfortunately Case doesn't build large dozers. The D6 I have now, has been okay, but not as good as my Case. Something that I've noticed about both the Cat, and JD dealerships here, are they're almost impossible to get pricing from. They should be thrilled when someone asks for a price, but instead they treat it like a hardship .
If a dozer gets 1800-2000 hours a year, after 2 years the undercarriage is junk, has been my experience. I predict that it will be in the 2000 hours a year range, and partly why I want a larger dozer. It makes sense to buy a larger one, and hire one more operator, than 2 more smaller ones, and hire two extra people. Traditionally, every 2nd winter, I rebuild my dozers undercarriages. I would love to get 10,000 hours out of them, but none of them last that long unfortunately.
A 375 is a huge machine, not that I've ever ran one. But I did just Google it, and would love it if someone dropped one off for me to use every summer. I don't even want to guess at the price, my heart isn't that good to begin with. I really do want a winch, and arch, on it though.
In my neck of the woods we don't have large areas of wooded land. We do have some 10-20 acre timbers scattered around. So I'm not familiar with clearing those type of acres. That being said, around here a decent sized excavator would grub the trees and stumps. Then use a smaller more economical dozer to push into piles. I feel like even the best operators would have half the topsoil in the tree pile using a large dozer. End up with one huge mess. I'm picturing the OP is clearing densely populated acres??? Just my $.02
A D475 is 20 HP more than D11T or something like that. A D375 is a monster dozer as the D355 which they had two of at a place I worked at was quite large compared to D155. All I know is that in big stumps a D9 or more is a huge gain per day of work done in comparison to a D8 size machine. If you are doing 12000 acres it might pay to be big, but that would depend on how soft of areas you will be in. Then it depends on how rocky, and what size excavator will work behind throwing stumps into piles to burn. You will know what you are up against. Simon C
An excavator and a smaller dozer might be a good option. An excavator wouldn't need undercarriage that often and could get rid of excess dirt a lot easier. Once the stumps are loose a dozer with a brush rake could pile them. It would be easier on each machine. I'd look at lower hour used machines that still had warranty too. Could save thousands and still have a capable machine(s). From some of the threads on new machines it might be good to find a machine that has had all the bugs worked out already. Recall a Cat grader thread where there were constant problems on a brand new machine. Some that they couldn't figure out.
It seems to me that you have had plenty of experience in running dozers and can answer your own question. You’re buying new if I read things correctly which means a Cat D9 is the way forward. You can keep it for 20 years if you like and you’ll always get parts for it and strong resale.I’m over in the UK so can’t comment on parts availability for your Komatsu or JD options,but I can guess that they’ll be worth very little after 20 years regardless of how much money you’ve put back into them. However,if you’re financially comfortable with buying new and selling them on after 5 years,then take your pick sir. Cat for me though.
They all break its parts and support that is the key . Im not a fan of big hystat dozers . Haven't heard anyone saying how great a high drive Liebherr hystat is . Deere makes good dozers Komatsu makes good dozers Cat makes dozers with support . We have a quarry up in northern California in volcanic rock and he runs an FD 31 Poclian 400 dresser 560 Kobelco crusher from the early 80s Granted it's a seasonal operation but with care and maintenance and knowledge you can run anything you want . For me it would be cat . I know I can get parts I know I can get a tech I know I can get support . I know I can sell it The most important is the dude running it . If they like it they will take care of it YO !!!!
The 2 D375's my employer bought were sold to them by a friend of mine, for 25K each. Yeah new cost ? Not as crazy high as a cat. Yeah they were used one was better than the other though. D475 mentioned above, it out weighs the D11 more tractive effort power etc. Problem with new D155 is the cheezy ripper design now, looks to be very asymmetrically loaded.
Komatsu D 375 is around 155000 to 160000 lbs. No wonder stumps just fly out with it. Would not be very hard to grab an extra 6 inches of top soil with it if an operator was not careful. Simon C
Caterpillar D9T is 105000-110000 LBS. Quite a big spread in weight from a D375, even an old D9G or H could rip out stumps well. Always have to remember that the dozer is only pushing 1 stump at a time , as they are not lined up in front of blade. D9T would definitely have more people looking for it if and when you decide to sell, but not sure what prices are these days other than more than a million plus. Simon C
A 375 is a huge machine, not that I've ever ran one. But I did just Google it, and would love it if someone dropped one off for me to use every summer. I don't even want to guess at the price, my heart isn't that good to begin with. I really do want a winch, and arch, on it though. The top layer all has to be removed for a field to be viable here, after logging it. The duff, or whatever you want to call it, with all the roots, needles, etc if not removed, will just try and reforest itself, and the soils PH level is also bad for growing. Look at a lawn, under a spruce or pine tree, notice the lack of grass. That is largely from the needles that fall, changing the soils PH level.
Guessing you must be in Ontario somewhere, or maybe Quebec. Pine trees do kill all the soil for grass. Simon C
New Komatsu D155AX-8WH weighs 94220 lbs which is 15000Lbs less than D10T but wont sink as much either is my guess. Lots of decisions to make. Simon C
This particular job, is logging 59% of 12800 acres, or 7552 acres, but its not all in 1 contious area. Most logging jobs I do, are different than this one. This is my own land, and where I build my last home, and retire to. I have my own lake, and hill, upon which the house will be built, giving me 360⁰ views. Best part, still not a neighbor in sight! My ranch, is my retirement job, from logging. cattle, horses, hay fields, the quiet life. My own grass airstrip, so my plane is a 2 minute quad ride from my door.
Good, used, low hour machines, don't exist in my area. If they do, the seller basically wants new price, and who knows how often it was greased, fluids changed, abused, etc. I've had nightmare used machines, which is why in the last 10 years, i have only bought 1 used. As for an excavator, already have 1, bought new in 2024, a Hyundai HX300, its a 70,000 lb crawler. Hyundai only builds baby sized dozers though, they sound good, if all someone needs is a tiny dozer. My 300 will be home to help some, when not at other jobs, say half the time.
My guess is that this dozer will be around for a decade, then sold. When I retire, will be keeping a smaller dozer for around the ranch. No 20,000 hour dozer is worth much for resale, they are only going to someone who is barely going to use it. Bunchers, dozers, processors, excavators, logging trucks, low beds, farm tractors, etc are all virtually worthless past 15k hours.
Unfortunately my local Finning, aka the cat dealer, isn't very good. The Case/Tigercat, and Hyundai, are the two best dealers in my area, none of which make anything but small dozers. If they made 85,000 lb, 360 hp class dozers, I would have just bought one.
Central BC Canada, geographically, almost dead center. Slightly south of center, but barely a few miles east of center. In a mix of poplar, birch, fir, but mostly spruce (about 78.5% ), and pine.
I wasn't even considering a D10, nor do I want to think about hauling one, or God forbid getting it stuck. My guess is that a stuck D10, just remains there for 500 years, until rust returns it to the earth.
I didn't price a D9, partly due to the nightmare of moving it. A D8, remove the blade, drive onto low bed, get permits, and haul it. Come back, get the blade, and done.
A quick cauculation on hire and transport of a dozer big enough to remove a D155 had me purchase another . You have enough work for two .
We had to super clean all our debris after all the burning was stopped. No rocks in stumps etc, to chip it all for fuel, for a paper plant I think. With the 375 and straight blade I could get it as clean as with a rake. And yes that is the key word careful, yet fast as well. We didn't always clear with the big dozer only if the 8 was down for some reason. A winch will not balance it very good. And unless you have lots of recovery work a winch is just a decoration on the back. I yarded lots of wood with a D65 with a ripper. I'd want a ripper and if I needed a winch it could be some hydraulic deal mounted to a ripper shank, easy on and off the tractor. We never removed the blades for the D8's or the 375's for transport.
Interesting you bought a Hyundai excavator. Are you planning to keep it a long time too? I'm guessing it was quite a bit less than the big names but it also won't have near the resale value? How well does Hyundai support older machines? I read some good reviews on Hyundai loaders but would be worried about parts support for older machines. As far as getting stuck and getting out I think it would depend on the ground conditions for the machine used to pull it out. If stuck in a large soft area I think it would be difficult to get any dozer over 40 tons out. Maybe certain dozers have LGP or wider pad options better suited for questionable terrain?
I definitely want a winch, and arch, not just a winch. Here, I cannot legally move a D8, without removing the blade, so I do. I lowbed a lot of equipment for people, but leave the huge pieces for others. Yesterday I hauled a dozer, and skidder, into the bush for a guy. Today I will move his buncher, and next week when his processor is done being repaired, haul that out as well. Also, next week I have to drive way south, and pick up a used skidder for him, and haul it to the bush as well. While I am not currently logging myself, my lowbed, and logging trucks, are busy all winter, hauling for others.
The Hyundai dealer here is excellent, and I never had trouble getting parts, or service, on my Hyundai equipment, past, or present. While a used cat hoe, may sell for more than an equivalent Hyundai hoe, it better sell for more, because it cost more to. Also cat parts cost more during ownership, and if I were to compare the service between my local Finning vs Woodland Equipment, it isn't even close. Woodland aka the Hyundai dealer, is about 900 times better than Finning aka the cat dealer. In my opinion, the Hyundai is also better, and more reliable. Getting parts for a 10 year old Hyundai has never been an issue, and typically quicker to. My uncle, who has a massive logging company, not a small operation like me, has a mixed fleet, and swears that his Hyundai machines are more reliable than his JD and Cat are. My hauling equipment for people, and talking to them about their own experiences, is why I started buying Hyundai myself. Many people kept telling me about their great experience with them. Tigercat is also popular here, seems to be well liked. My two bunchers are Tigercat, and they've been pretty good. I currently have 4 Hyundai 300s, 2 with buckets, and 2 have log loader heads, been good machines.
Our 2004 Hyundai 210-7 has been super reliable in the 10 seasons we have owned it. It came from Finning in Kamloops (ex city of Kamloops machine) as a trade in; full new undercarriage and Tier 2 Cummins 5.9l. Works well for us as machine has to sit each winter out in the bush; not sure how a def system would fare over the long run in this scenario .... Just two repairs so far: Electronic Heater/ac box (went aftermarket), and alternator. Noticed Woodland in Vernon has closed up (nearest to home for us). So will use Woodland in Prince George if parts needed (Just 1.5h north of our worksite)....
hum... quite strange that question of yours... Cleaning land is much faster with excavators, and a dozers as a team... in a climate like yours anithing above 20 tons is liable to bog. Lets consider u buy a D6R used and decently maintained and a Komatsu PC220, just cause i consider a 220 beter than a CAT325, KMT is much faster and as strong as the CAT´s , this 2 size machines will make a team able to clear a considerable area a day. If u have more money to feed into it make 2 teams, with a heavier PC300 and a D8R. like this the project will never ran into maintnance related problems and this machines are big enought without beeing to big for bogging and or repairs. Smaller are more eficient untill the smal becomes too small.
Awesome, and that's a 22 year old machine. Woodland in PG, is only 45 minutes from my house. When I move, I'll actually be closer, probably 35 minutes away. You said south, 90 minutes, so Quesnel area. Beautiful country there, so sad to see the town struggle though, all those mill closers really hurt it. If you ever have spare time, go walk in hoodoo park, in west Quesnel. Very cool valley to see. If you know ahead of time, when you are coming to PG sometime, let me know, I'll buy you a beer.
I'm curious, why my climate, will bog down, anything over 20 tons? My bunchers, processors, loaders, hoes, etc are way more than 20 tons. I Definitely don't want used, and especially that old used. The R series was discontinued long ago. I need to take the top layer off as well, it simply won't grow crops, after many thousands of years, of all the dead trees, needles, etc making the soil acidic. I'm not replacing the trees, with seedlings here, I'm developing farm land. I've done many fields for people, and myself, just not this large. 80 acres, 160 acres, even 400 acres, its not bad with say a D6, or 2050 case, even the leased last summer TC920 did okay on small jobs I had, which is why I leased it for 6 months. It could push stumps, and clear 5, 10, 20 acre jobs fine, build roads and driveways, etc. But if I need to do about 950 acres a year, to meet my 8 year goal, I will need a larger dozer. When not at other jobs, my other 2 dozers will help as well. I'm leaning towards a Komatsu D155, going to price one out, not even going to get the low ground pressure one, with wider pads, as most of the ground it will be on isn't that soft. For the occasional low, soft area, if I'm concerned about it, can do it with a smaller dozer. Honestly more concerned about the buncher in the soft spots. Get it stuck, and let the games begin.
So,you’re considering a 155 after thinking about it?. I’m a fan of the the older 155’s going back 30 years,but any newer ones after the dash 2 155’s were fazed out in the late 1990’s never found popularity in the UK for some reason. There are a few about I believe,but I’ve never seen one. As for D8’s,I’ve owned 12 of the things at last count and allways did reasonably well on them financially. Finnings is our only dealer here and their backup support is worlds apart from what it was 20 years ago,with Komatsu dealership support being even worse.
It might be a good idea to check on the cost of replacement major components and see if exchange are available. Like I mentioned before, it was a game changer for the county I was in. Could save a lot of downtime too.
20 or 30 years ago, I rarely saw anything Komatsu here, this was Cat country, and some JD. But it's increasingly, and quickly, becoming Tigercat, Timber Pro, Komatsu, Hyundai, Sennebogen, and Link Belt country. Cat and Deere are wanting to crap on loggers, and construction it seems, to cater to the rich mines, that spend a fortune. If you are a huge logging company, then they might take care of you, but someone like me, they don't care. I'll never be buying a dozen or more new pieces a year, so they decided to ignore me, and everyone else who is small. After 3 decades of moving other people's equipment for them, that trend is very noticeable. Used to be i would low bed 80% Cat, 10% JD, and 10% everything else combined. Now I move about 20% Cat, 5% JD, and 75% everything else. Cat, and finning, I heard are not doing so well, they did that to themselves. All they had to do was treat people decently, return phone calls, and they would still dominate here I'll bet. Their equipment is okay, but the mentality is we don't care about you unless you're huge. Someone like me, who only has 17 pieces of equipment, and not all brand new, I'm a nobody.
Absolutely!
I've had the same experiences with the Cat dealers I've dealt with here in VA. I'm a small one man operation (grading/excavation/construction) and I got the feeling I was just a nobody at the Cat dealer unless I was looking to spend $250K or more. As such I run Case and Kubota equipment, both companies have treated me well.
Finning is the dealer here too. What I found odd is they don't even have a service counter. I went in to ask about something and the person I asked seemed a little startled. "I'll see if somebody in the shop could come up to talk to you." I waited a few minutes and somebody came but anywhere else has a service counter and service manager/advisor to help customers who come in. There prices are pretty high if you don't have multiple machines and an account but lots of suppliers stiff you if you don't have an account. Can be a big difference on some things.
You're a nobody wanting to buy a D8 sized machine with a retail price of $2M Canadian? **** if you bought a brand new D8 from my Dealer you're getting a trip on their G3 to Peoria to see it built.
I get the same impression from Finning in a different country where my customer is looking to spend probably well in excess of $500M on equipment over the next 5 years. As an ex-Finning employee it pains me to see what the organisation has become.
That sucks. What do you think their rational is? $500M? What is Finning wanting $3B? You know my dealer and I couldn't ask for a better one. Been on their G3 twice to Peoria and the biggest piece of iron I have ever bought is a 325. Now I've been a loyal customer for 22 years and bought many a piece of iron but nothing in this realm.
Personally I think it’s a sense of entitlement. They seem to think they are entitled to the business without having to put in the “hard yards” to make the sale.
Finning here tried to break the union and the parts department went to absolute *****! Instead of getting parts next day or the day after they could only tell you hopefully in a week. They used a logistics company and moved all the parts into their warehouse. They paid one of their largest customers about $500K for lost downtime because of an extra long weight for some common pistons for the main generator at one of their gravel pits. One of the long term parts guy's who I think went on strike told me what a mess it was. The union won in the end and it was a good thing.
I have been around Finning all my life as my Dad was a shop foreman at the Kamloops shop. I have seen it deteriorate over the last 40 years when they moved the head office to Edmonton Ab & started buying out Cat Dealerships all over the world, they just got too big for their britches And forgot about the little guy’s. l worked with a lot of their servicemen & partsmen till I retired in 2013 they were all top notch.I blame Managers & CEO’s. It also has to do with the economy & environment, the Forest industry in BC is just about done which was one of Finnings best customer. Mining is coming back slowly, and the Tariffs well that’s another story . The World is in a terrible state glad I am out of the workforce. Cheers
It was the CEO from BC that wanted to break the union and it cost him big. If you can't make money as a large Cat dealer you're doing something wrong. If you're greedy that's wrong too.
Wow. That is a lot of land to clean up. It almost sounds like you will do the job alone. I just finished my first 70 acres using a 963 track loader. I am about to start another 100 acre wooded tract. I have purchased a Cat feller buncher to help, and an 850 john deere dozer which is stronger than the 963 push wish. I however find that I like using the 963. You might consider getting a good 973 track loader. Based on what i have spent in fuel a 80 or 90 k machine will eat your wallet.
I think how efficient you are with the machine makes a big difference. Thousands of acres sounds like a good job for chaining.
This thread could easily turn into a Finnings bashing thread. Going into Finnings with a bag full of $2m to buy a new D8,would get you nowhere.They aren’t interested.Probably cost them $1.9m to buy it from Cat. They can make more $ for less effort. They aren’t interested in companies spending a few million,they want customers spending $100m’s. It’s contemptible really,but that’s how it is. Many large dealers are the same regardless of tractor,truck,car,dozer etc
In 2006, The company I worked for needed a new dozer, the D8k was getting tired. We tried komatsu, they didn’t have a machine close enough to even look at, with a 6 month delay. Same with Finning, but our local Finning branch salesman got us a new D9t in 3 weeks , he diverted a D9 going to the oil patch to us , boy were the big shots pissed. its was just over 1 million in 2006.
That's when a good salesperson can make a big difference. Some don't even want to talk to small customers and do nothing but bash the competition. Good sales people treat all customers the same. A sale is a sale. I ran into that just buying a skid steer.
I would be happy with my phone call being returned. Spend less than $100,000,000 / year here, and you are a nobody. Go to say Woodland equipment for an oil filter, and you are treated like a long lost friend. Hey, how are you doing, how is life, great to see you, can I get you a coffee. Ummmm sure, black please, I'm good thanks. Just here to grab a filter. Well its always awesome to see you.
Definitely not doing it alone, but hope to spend some time on site, not just supervising other jobs. I'm also often on a truck, hauling equipment, or logs. I've built a very good team, took a lot of years, and I'm blessed to have them. The best days are when everything is running smoothly, and I can ride around on my ATV, with a chainsaw, and just fall the oversized trees, then have them skidded for me, and head up, limb and buck them by hand. Throw the Can Am, and Husqvarna in the pickup, and go to another job, and see how they're doing, and repeat. Rarely do days go so smooth, but when they do, its paradise. Running a saw, is still one of my favorite things to do. When I started, as a teenager, my boss handed me a saw, and in a 20 minute lesson showed me how to tighten the chain, sharpen it, mix gas and oil, fuel it, fill the bar oil, fall a tree, limb it, and buck it. Gave me a pair of chaps, and a hard hat, and I had a job. The 80s were a different time, and most learning came as a result of screwing up. How I survived my first year is still a mystery, but sure beat high school in my opinion. I was a high school drop out, back then nobody cared. I was 16, and making what I considered huge money. Sweat poured off me all day, but after 6 months I was in such good shape, that saw didn't even feel heavy any more. Now I'm exhausted after 30 minutes, but still love it.
Very true Welder Dave. I wish Finnings would employ some!!
I think Caterpiller has been trading on its name far too long . Family who had the NZ outlet lost it for various reasons . Market share dropped head over heals and its going to be a slog to recover if it can . New Son In-law has an area he's working on doing just that . Being able to fix the machinery he sells gives a head start for a salesman . Best thing for a parts person is the same , service is whats its all about . Not sure how my daughter got away with it being a parts person selling John Deere bits but smart enough to know the right guy when he waked in the door looking for parts . Service is whats it's all about .
I saw a sign in a store one time and gave it to my dad. "A salesman's job starts when the customer says no." My dad bent over backwards for his customers and made service a priority. He didn't not get the sale very often. Excellent service is not that common anymore.
Problem now is that in the North West Corner of B.C is a tremendous amount of mining startups and exploration. Look up Skeena Gold and if you watch some of their news, they were building the mill for a mine before they even had the environmntal approval. They will be the second highest grade open pit gold mine in the World and are the former Eskay Creek mine that was the highest grade gold mine in the world till it closed around year 2003 or so. They have all new Komatsu Haul trucks and excavators along with other equipment. They are already buliding roads and stripping areas for mining and started stockpiling ore for when the mill starts. They received the final environmental approval on Feb. 3rd this year. I bought some of their stocks a while back. What does this have to do with Martin70 deciding on a Dozer? These big companies are sending their best of the best mechanics to these mine sites to keep the new stuff full of wiring problems running. Their is multiple other large projects in the works along with all the Placer mining going on in Yukon, which quite a few have bought newer gear and will pay no matter what it costs to get it going. If it costs $3000 for a guy to do so diagnostics, and another $10000 to come and change the faulty parts they will pay it at $5000 US per ounce of gold. The price of and profit on lumber is in a different realm than these gold mining operations. These service managers get directions from the owners of the businesses about who to make priority on a daily basis as they do not want to have any slow down on their monthly income from these mines. Small companies will get serviced when they have time on their schedule, not yours. I met the owner of a medium Company in Red Deer that had 6 pieces of equipment that Finning was suppose to service but in 2010- 2015 they were focused on McMurray rebuilds and they could not come to his place in a long time. He sold every piece and bought from Deere as they have a very small footprint in the Oil Sands. He said he did not regret his decision as equipment down for too long can kill a company. Hope you have a good look at the newest Komatsu Wiring in the new stuff, as I have a full schematic on a 2010 Komatsu 420 wheel loader, and will say that it is extremely complex and very few guys around other than the dealer that can make their way around it. I will say that the Caterpillar schematics are better or easier in my opinion, and machines before DPF filters and DEF with rebuilt components and new harnesses offer as good of reliability as some of the newest with too much electronic components. Even if you buy with warranty you will be serviced when they have time, and only in their shop unless if you have special contract. Good dealership mechanics like to work in warm company or mine shops when it is minus 30-50c outside. Hope that helps you in making a wise choice. Simon C
I'm very fortunate to not have logged the past 9 winters. My trucks run all winter, but not any equipment, except for a couple of farm tractors. At minus 25 C, at my house, my trucks are also parked. It may be minus 30 C when they get to the bush, so yes technically they haul at -30. This winter, there was only 2 days trucks were scheduled to go, and didn't due to cold. Mines, many hundreds of kms away, shouldn't be having anything more than minimal effect on dealers here as well. This area is mostly logging, so dealers should be focusing on that, their main customer base. But sadly, many seem to have lost sight, of who is their bread and butter.
My former neighbour wasn't a Cat fan and had a few JD track loaders for demolition. He got ticked off because the JD dealer couldn't send out a mechanic for 3 days to fix one his loaders. I think it needed a water pump. He expected them to drop everything and come out right away to fix his machines. I think it's unrealistic to think a dealer should be on call to rush out to fix your equipment. They have other customers and only so many field mechanics. The neighbour went to Komatsu for excavators. I was talking to the service manager at the JD dealership when I had a 355D loader and mentioned my neighbour. He said they had to bug him for month's to remove an 855 loader sitting in their yard used as a parts machine.
3 days isn't bad, but 3 months just to get a price is.
It's the classic... An emergency on your part doesn't constitute an emergency on my part. If you want instant service that's why firms have their own mechanics or fix things themselves. It's the whole reason behind the right to repair lawsuit. Everybody thinks their problem is the highest priority but in reality it's what the dealer or field mechanic thinks is the highest priority.
^^^^ Agreed. The businesses biggest clients will get serviced first, and goes down in order of income from the customers per year. I worked for an outfit with a big 3412 Generator that was essential for it to run in case of power outage. It was way behind in maintenance and had not had a hired mechanic for 10 years until I showed up. I told the owner if he had a prolonged power outage and the if the generator went down, he would be last on their priority to get going. His wallet opened for 1 week of work to get a lot of problems dealt with. He finally realized that if it went down he was going to lose a lot of his Tree Nursery. Harder to find good independants if we only call once a year , same deal. Mechanics cost are crazy today also, just go into a Snap On Truck or start buying diagnostic equipment and $10000 does not go too far. Simon C
Everyone thinks they are a priority but seldom few put any maintenance or work in. It’s always a fire, just some organizations have more fires than others, for a reason.
Excellent and informative post by Simon C.
It’s easy for me to forget that the dealer is actually a business and goes with the money. They’d be irresponsible and stupid not to. Fair enough.
I think in my neighbours case he figured it was a more simple repair so would be easier and faster to do. It doesn't work that way and you never know what else you might find that needs fixing.
What some upper crusties don’t seem to understand. When you are spending as much money on a machine as a house costs, past and present relationships with the supporting dealer, has as much if not more sway, than the initial cost of the machine. I worked for a company that got screwed by Cat one time and not only did they not make it right, they ended up in court and my boss had me drop off said machine outside their gate on a Saturday morning. Now, he’s got over 100 pieces of equipment and the only Cats around, are either proprietary machines or the ones that go “meow”.
Also, screw someone over, and they'll tell everyone they know, and those people will tell people, etc. But maybe even more than that, others see what people are using, especially when moving from job to job, and ask why they chose Brand XYZ. If you see mostly Komatsu, Link Belt, or whatever in an area, you also start thinking to yourself, gee that's interesting. Over time, it spreads, and that brand starts to dominate in an area. As I mentioned before, this area was Cat land, not anymore.
I have noticed a fair bit of Link-Belt machinery in the bush…
I don´t know about there, but in my planet CAT is king , as as spares are readily available from aftermarket. And we do like old iron specially machinery with minimal electronics, or at least proven electronics that are stand alone controlers, not that crap common bus comunications network. Komatsu are the 2nd most popular but spares are scarse and expensive, despite u can get hold of pretty much everithing. Back to the thread, i understood ppl got used to the number D8H, at least in north america and forgot that today a D8 series is almost twice as heavy. Nevertheless the best D8 i have seen or work with were the R´s. Here in my planet the D6D was the king, many contractors still use them, after several rebuilds. I used to work with a 155-2 and 3 AX some 20 years ago, the 3 very compact and pleasure to work dozer. but as mentioned previously in my planet we don´t even consider a such size machine for clearing work. Clearing work is done with excavators on the 20 to 30 ton size and small dozers like d6´s. or D65/85.
Again, thanks for sharing your thoughts everyone, I decided to order a Komatsu.
What size did you settle on?
A 155, cost was $1,155,000 pre tax, coincidence ?
Now I know why the owner of the business where I built a D155A-1 engine for 2 years ago was okay with the very expensive engine built with 5 engines worth of parts, from grenaded engines plus all the new parts to have enough to build one. He diod not want to commit to any big payments and most of his work has dried up. Simon C