I'm looking at a 6H to buy and the hard nose moves back and forth when you lift and lower the blade. now I did research the replacement pins and in doing so discovered there is also bearings in the bors. So i'm wondering what my chances are that i could get away with just replacing the wear parts or if i would have to do some line boring. The other issue is the hard bar. I know for sure that the end bearings are out but not sure if its eat into the bar its self. Not sure where to look for after market. I do remember seeing a thread on here some time ago where a guy had a simillar problem and he got an after market on for under 2k i think (5685.00 from CAT). I have a price on parts from cat for everything for the hard nose to the hard bar (including the bar itself) $7536.00 I have yet to get oil samples. Is there any other problems that the older H"s are proned to? ser# 4RC01861
We have had problems with nose cones developing movement on D6 and D8Rs, have not had to have then line bored, just replaced the pins and bushings. With any luck you should have the same experience. Regarding the hard bar we usually have a local machine shop build up the ends, runs under $1k to have rebuilt and ready to go. Involves building up, turning down, installing seals and bearings. Aftermarket can be found for a little over $1200. Best
how much of a pain to replace the pins and bushings in the nose, any special tooling?
Just noticed today that the nose on our D6r is moving a bit. How much movement is acceptable? Can it wreck anything else? How big of job is it to fix? I got about another 65 hours of work left before I was planning on getting it back into the shop.
We replaced the pins and bushing in the nose of our 7H. The pins are press-fit, if i remember correctly (it was over ten years ago) you need a special press tool or get creative with a portapower to remove them. It's a P.I.T.A. if you're not familiar with doing it.
So I'm guessing you need to split the track to make room to get in there then?
Well, now that I'm thinking about it, we did it from the inside. I think we may have left the pivot pins alone, just removed the back pins because we were tilting the hard nose to remove the radiator. You probably are going to need the pin press to get the pivot pins out, as they could be inaccessible from the inside. You might have to pull a few pads to make room? Post your serial number (Nige is going to ask for it) and he will hook you up with Cat info on the procedure.
D6R LGP ADE00304. Thanks
LGP. Nice. That should make life a whole lot easier. Pull three or four pads and you should have all the room you could possibly need to fit the tooling on there.
If the machine has a good few hours on it chances are the nose cone may need line boring. The bearings are a press fit but I would have a couple of bosses machined up and pull them in with some threaded bar and a big spanner. The bores on the chassis wear as well. The 10's have bearings there but I'm not sure about the 6's. Those bores are about the most difficult job on a Cat Dozer to do. The bore spacings have to be pretty well perfect. You won't get the pins back in if they aren't.
Everything Ray said regarding R&I plus line boring (if necessary) with knobs on .......... There is an outside chance that the machine frame has flogged the bushes so bad that it might need boring but although that is possible I consider it unlikely. The pin parts (Section B-B & C-C) are: - Pin (#10) 170-8592, Washer (#17) 7X-0610, Bolt (#24) 7X-2488. 4 of each obviously. The frame is bushed. The Part Numbers are 258-2303 (front) & 3T-0996 (rear).
What about tooling? Is this job possible without the fancy press tooling?
Do you mean to install the bearings? You can pull them in with a hydraulic cylinder. Or use a bit of threaded bar or flog the in with a dolly or and hammer. I would normally use liquid nitrogen.
Getting the old pins out. Our 7H with 14,000 hrs was a %$#@++@#, mainly because (if I remember correctly) they have to go out to the inside, and there isn't anything to really push against, and with the idler and track frame you really can't swing a hammer that well either. I suppose if you had a couple 8's sitting around you could line up one to push against, and the other to hold the other side, LOL.
Liquid nitrogen - the thinking man's installation tool ......
Yep, getting the pins out of the frame boss-bores...use cutting torch! Hammering will mushroom the pin ends then you're ****' and have to cut the pins out anyway. Couple of mid-west mines do not line bore hardnoses, they pre-fab new ears-bosses and cut off the worn, assemble and weld 10s & 11s.
I can imagine replacing the rear bosses. The front ones are 4 holes in line and not very accessible. I bet I could weld and bore them quicker.
I know of a really nice 6h that got cut this summer. Might have the hardnose left. Maybe. Things move fast there.
Here's a stupid question. Why is the hardnose pinned on like that anyway? Why is it not part of the frame? Welded or cast solid. I could see pinning it on if you weren't going to hoist the blade with it.
Because Clatter-pillar wanted to feel special??
I decided to let one of our local dirt contractors do it. They run a fair size fleet of dirt equipment and during the winter they do the odd job in their shop to keep their guys busy. Plus they are only charging $90 an hour also so they are quite reasonable. They figured about 15 hours to do all four pins. I also have an oil leak somewhere up there to so hopefully they can fix that at the same time when it is opened up. We were going to do it ourselves but we got our shop full of other things.
Try removing the engine with the hard nose in place and let me know how you get on.......,.
StanRus, please check your pm.
They were bolted on the D8 and D9 days. Seems like when they went to the high drives they went to pins. I suppose the pins are more secure over a long time than the bolts and clamp fits.
Pinned Tilting Hardnose made servicing the radiator assembly, fan drive and engine-torque divider R&I easier...The PINS and BORES wear from the get-go, wear caused by fretting damage due to the necessary assembly clearances. Continuous 3rd gear reverse operation (like Cushion Dozer) shortens the service life. When the pins-bores get really loose, the upper coolant hoses-pipes start yanking off of the thermostat housings! Removing the radiator cap requires tilting upwards towards the rear of the machine to remove!
I've seen a couple of 8s be loose enough to tear up the fan guards and make swirl marks on the radiator fins.
Well my friend called me to come look at my cat today as they got it tore apart. The news wasn't good. The bottom left hand corner of the frame is broke right off where the pin goes through.
Is that the lug on the chassis? Its easy enough to replace but the location of the bore is critical. You can get the dimensions off SIS.
Yes, it's broke off the main frame.
As a Line Borer I shouldn't recommend it but if it was mine I would make up a new lug with a bushing in it.Have it attached to the nose with the pin through it. Position the nose correctly and tack the lug to the chassis. Lift off the nose and weld it
Looks like 3 different benchmarks at the break, starting at the crankcase guard bolt lug.
Thought my cat would be ready to start bending trees over again today. Checked in on it. Apparently there are no bushings in Canada, they are coming from Waco Texas.
Hate to say it but the design reminds me of my 40+ year old Allis and how their designers did the hard nose. Mine has two flare tapered bolts at the front pin position, then has a rubber bushing supported nut/bolt assembly at the rear position. As time wore on the front bolt would wear or the tapered hole would wear and then become loose while of course the nut had frozen to the bolt then the rear rubber mount would tear away and the entire hard nose would wiggle and sway bumping radiator fan shroud and even the loader lift arms. The HD11, 16, even the early 21's were all quite similar.
I torched my old ones out and tried to drive the new ones in. Got it part way in and it started pushing the bushings out. Not sure what to do. I tried to use a bolt to squeeze it back in with no luck. I don’t want to torch my new pin.
Get the new pin back out, inspect the bore and bushing as may be damaged, don't destroy what you started even as may need to buy another pin.
Is this on the LAY-prefix D6T you posted about before.? As the Chinaman would say - Sum Ting Wong. Those pins should almost push in by hand provided everything is clean and lined up correctly, a light hammer tap at the very most. Are you using OEM or aftermarket pins/bushes.? EDIT: You did remove the old bushes and replaced them with new I hope.?
On the D6R the Nose Cone pins are pulled out towards the track, they have a thread inside to locate a pulling bolt that is UNC on the R Series and Metric on the T Series, from the inside they have a long bolt and washer that keeps them in place that will need to be removed, if the D6 is an LGP Tractor just removing a few plates will allow you enough room to easily work, if it is a standard gauge Tractor splitting the track groups is the best method I find, a cylinder and sometimes an amount of heat is needed to remove them and possibly a few well placed thumps from a good sized 14 lb hammer, to refit just buff out the rust and apply copper slip and the pins will push home easy, the job is not to bad to tackle with the more you do the easier they get, I have never had to cut a pin out on a nose cone and they have been about from the mid 80's so I would have done lots. tctractors