Anyone like to take a guess how many hours these tracks have done? Iam looking around for a lowish hour D6R and this tractor, which I haven’t seen in the flesh yet, seems to fit the bill except for undercarriage.
Hard to say how many hours the tracks have done but judging by the first photo the pins & bushes appear to have been turned, so I would say plenty. The links are pretty well gone as well, as are the idlers. IMHO budget complete replacement undercarriage into the offer price. Let's face it U/C is all "bolt-on", it's not hard to fix.
Looks pretty much wore out on those rails to me. Those bushings having been already turned are thin.
Do you have a photo of the bottom rollers. The pin bosses on the chains don't show any sign of the bottom roller flanges riding on the them. You might have some wear left on them.
This is an excerpt from the ecm download. Must of been working in some nasty ***** with only 3700hrs, 37% of which were idle time.
Do you have any idea at all of its history..? It could have been working in some really abrasive conditions. I've been on jobs where we could take a set of brand new undercarriage to 120% worn in under 1500 hours. Not usual I grant you but I have seen it. On the same job we were changing cutting edges on graders twice in a 24hr working day. It's been working pretty hard when it was working. Crunching some numbers the engine Load Factor for the 63% of the time when it was actually working was somewhere close to 70%.
That serial number doesn't show up in any of my books and I've only seen read outs like that on T model tractors. I'm not sure what we're are supposed to believe at this point. At any rate that load factor is kind of bogus in my eyes. They are taking a possible total fuel number which assumes that if the engine were running at 100% load factor and dividing that into the actual fuel used which is a calculated number done inside the machine computer. In essence there is really no way to know how hard that machine was pushing when it wasn't at idle. What I see is plenty of time in a corrosive environment in some sort of standby mode at best and just plain stupidity at worst. Total hours minus total idle hours equals 2,334.55 productive hours and possibly undercarriage traveling hours. I have seen that kind of wear on LGP machines plenty of times. I've been told by more that one person from the Cat dealer and one factory rep that one hour of idling is equal to three hours at full output. Might not be the best machine to consider for purchase unless the price is very good.
4ZF is the engine serial number. The machine is AAX580, Built Jan 2004. If it's priced as a fifteen year old machine and those hours are correct, I'd say it's worth looking at. Forget the condition of the UC, that's all replaceable. Mechanically wise, it should be barely broke in.
I believe that that is the engine no., when I enter it in Partstore it shows machine no. AAX00580, a 2004 series 11. It has been imported 2nd hand by a dealer and was previously owned by a land developer in Canton, Connecticut. In any case, it is well out of contention because of the cost of replacing undercarriage. As luck would have it, I rang an old mate, who I haven’t seen in a while, to ask him to come along with me to look at tractors. Turns out they have 2012 series 111 with 5000hrs that they are selling due to the end of a large contract. We look at it on Tuesday. I typed over the top of you Cmark My mates tractor is 10k cheaper with 60-70% undercarriage and a solid set of Lewis rippers to boot.
I live about 50 miles from Canton Connecticut. I can't think of any horribly abrasive conditions there. Building and land development has been in a slump for a few years so I could see it sitting for a while. Sounds like you have a better alternative though. Jim
Maybe the CT land developer was not the original owner..?
Number of starts looks high , may account for the long idle hours warming up . Can it be determined if the track gear was what was supplied new with the dozer ? Could have been swapped .
The possibility of a chain swap did pass my mind but then the idlers are in the same poor condition so probably not likely. This is another tractor..with extremely comprehensive service records... that I was keen on. These chains were replaced 2500hrs ago.
What's the Part Number on that link..? It's difficult to read from that photo.
According to the records, track group 3969704 replaced 6/10/15
That makes sense. The 418-xxxx number on the lnik htrew me a bit. Those are General Duty (as opposed to Heavy Duty) Track Groups. Don't expect them to last long in anything abrasive or if you start giving them a load of hard work.
So what is the biggest gripe about system one undercarriage on a tractor this size? I haven’t heard too many favourable opinions of it. These pics are of a 6R with 8300 hrs. on the clock.
The biggest problem I've heard and seen is for dry links. It takes a special press to replace ruined boxes and joints and I've heard two guy most of a day to do one link. Lots of times there were three, four or five bad links and Cat prorated the value of the chains and applied that cost to a set of new ones. There were also issues for people working in river road that potato sized rocks would get stuck in the chains and crunch over the idlers. The front idler will give when the rock is real tough. The rear idler, not so much. The solution I saw was center holes punched in the pads. The last issue concerned track adjuster cylinders. Originally the chains had no master link so repairing a leaking track adjuster cylinder became an ordeal that lasted at least a day when a master link could be taken apart and assembled in less than an hour of labor. When I left the dealer employment, a master link was something that had to be special ordered on a new machine or even a new set of chains.
Ask the seller how many times Cat have been out to work on the undercarriage in those 8300 hours.
So, we have decided to buy the tractor from my mates family that I mentioned up thread. Undercarriage is a bit of a mixed bag..plates very good, idlers down a bit, chains look OK but cannons are out a little, sprockets stuffed but we’ll replace them before taking delivery..hopefully, should get a lot of work out of it before spending much more. It is an S6T prefix, built Dec. 2013, a third world version..has C9 motor at tier2, so is essentially a 6T vintage tractor without scr/dpf etc. I haven’t been able to track down a spec sheet for it so if anyone has any info on the series I would be keen to see it.
Where was it originally ordered/delivered seeing as it was a third world version? What type fuel injection system did they use on a tier 2 motor built in 2013? Any aftertreatment (DOC) at all or straight out the muffler? EGR?
Without a Serial Number my first thought would be that if it was built for export it was likely built in Brazil although the engine could have originally come out of the US, probably the Cat Seguin (TX) plant. Fuel system appears to be HEUI. No after-treatment. Exhaust goes straight from the turbo out of the stack.
As I recall Tier 2 did not require any after treatment at all. Many manufacturers claimed special injection functions, electronic controls, and maybe some internal changes to pistons and heads. I don't recall a D6R with anything special either. I was at a conference in the early 2000s and there were sessions with manufactures reps. I had a client who was bringing in gray market machines to the US who wanted to know if they could be updated for use in the US. Every brand said that would not be possible at all unless the engine already conformed to EPA rules. My next question was "do any of you makers build engines for other countries that do not comply with US EPA rules?" Not a one of them would answer the question. Later on I spoke to an equipment manufacturer rep and I made the comment that the engine people were not at all concerned about emissions. They were only concerned with the money they could make. He told me that was true but since I asked the question in front of everyone in the auditorium, the makers reps would likely never be back to that conference in the same capacity again. I hear that was the case.
Serial no. Is S6T00779, possibly built in Japan but definitely delivered new to Indonesia. No after treatment and, I’ve been told, a lot less electronics on transmission, etc.
Engine was built in Texas, tractor in Brazil. Not unusual for a machine being shipped to an LDC (Less-Developed Country)
But does the engine comply with US EPA for that date in time? I believe it will say in SIS.
No it will not. It will have a sticker on the valve cover saying something like “Export only. This engine does not comply with US emissions regulations at the time of manufacture. Final destination must be outside the US. This engine may not be re-imported into the US.” I can tell you that last sentence caused Reman loads of grief about getting cores back to Corinth from overseas. I’m not sure how it was solved TBH, all I know is that it was.
When in Peoria last year on the Cat tours we spent 4 hours in the assembly building for the D6, D7, D9, D10, and D11. The amount of engine pollution trim went from nothing with a simple straight unencumbered exhaust stack to what looked like 100 wires running around the engine and stack. It was explained to us that it all depended on where the machine was headed to around the world. I had thought the D9 was no longer being made but they still make them for export only.
I find it a little strange that they would have HEUI on an export model and not PLN or HPCR or MUI for reduced fragility. But maybe they figured there is no place to mount an injection pump and no easy way to get a third cam lobe/pushrod/rocker. Or maybe they just don't care about what I presume is small volume for the export market and just kept using what they had used in the past when it was legal in the states to avoid redesigning the thing.
I’ve seen a number of similar tractors, but with S6X prefix, advertised in Europe. Seem to share the same instrument panel, tiller and park brake control. These pics are from a tractor in the Netherlands.
I think you hit the nail right on the head about not wanting to go to the expense of engine redesign, but don't be under any illusions about the LDC market being "small", it ain't.........
Found an engine here on site with an Export sticker on it. Not exactly the one I remember from years ago (haven't looked for one since TBH) but it gives you the idea.
It’s taken some time but we finally have the tractor set up the way we need it. Ended up replacing all of the undercarriage, except for plates, and re sleeved and sealed cannons. Couldn’t stretch the budget far enough for genuine but aftermarket will have the machine earning it’s keep for a while.
Tractor has been running great. I haven’t been able to establish whether it is, in fact, the Tier 2 motor at 195 net hp or Tier 3 at 200. Either way it is plenty for a D6, although with the canopy and heavy rippers it weighs in at 25 tonnes, so most of the power does get to the ground. Runs very cool, but other day while helping to fight a fire the temp gauge suddenly shot right up to red. Wasn’t in a position to stop for long except to check that the motor wasn’t hot and kept going. Now the gauge goes straight to red as soon as key is turned, along with the yellow exclamation warning. It has the same instrument panel as in the pic above, similar to M series grader. Not sure if codes can be read from this panel or if it may need ET. Just wondering if these symptoms sound like a failed temp sender/sensor?
The tiller screams d6h to me.
Here's the emissions data.
Did you sort the issue with the temp gauge? That protector over the tractor looks sharp. Like the looks of the rake as well. Much different than we see in North America.
I would say exactly the same Tyler. That’s one of the things that I like about the machine... mechanical linkages to the transmission/steering, no electronics. Thanks for that information Cmark, I guess it confirms that it is this tractor. https://www.monark-cat.com/uploads/1/2/6/4/12641275/d6r.pdf Haven’t sorted the gauge yet, unless someone can suggest a a better idea, I’ll probably try a new sensor first. Unfortunately, we haven’t been able to use the rake as much as we would like. Because it is so dry, raking tears out too much valuable pasture grass and starts fires.
Can’t remember if you posted the S/N but that would get you the electrical Schematic. It might be advisable to check the wiring first. The clue is in the fact that the gauge pegged and the light came on instantaneously rather than readings going off over a period of time. I’d be thinking cut wire, but I may be wrong.
Hmmm....that makes sense, I was bouncing through some rock when it happened. I’ll send you a pm.
As you suspected Nige, a chaffed wire to the sensor. This sensor is in a p..ck of a spot.. impossible to eyeball.. had to resort to taking photos to help guide the connector back on.
What it saved you in the price of a new sensor it probably cost you in skinned knuckles by the sound of it.
May I ask a dumb question about wiring on machines ? Is it a design problem, or the techs that build the machine or just plain bad luck that caused Queenslander problem ? Reason I'm asking: I spend the past week tracing and replacing a 10M fibre optic cable and I found 2 instances where the allowed bend radius was not adhered to.
In the past couple of years I’ve only come across one instance that I can recall where the design of a harness was wrong - too short in that particular case. Everything else I come across is generally related to human factors, usually related to people not reinstalling all the ty-wraps after repair work, or installing them wrong.
You give the people that assemble these machines way too much credit calling them Techs. I worked for Cat at 2 different facilities and half the people putting machines together were hired because they could pass a drug test. I'm not saying there aren't talented people with lots of skill working for Cat, but a lot of their assemblers had minimal education or training aside from on the job training. Each assembly station has a standard work document that outlines and dictates how that task is to be performed with words and pictures. I know this because I spent most of 2008 writing these documents in one of their plants along with several other people. I spent months working with consultants, managers, other engineers and the assembly line workers putting these documents together, fine tuning them, updating them, etc. As per this situation, where the sensor cable was to be routed and secured are all called out in the standard work document pertaining to that assembly. That doesn't mean that what was called out by the engineer is the best place though, or that the cable hadn't come loose with years of operating and vibration. Usually, gross mistakes with an assembly get found very soon, and the standard work documents are changed and assemblers informed of changes. Some assembly issues take years to develop and then get properly diagnosed whether it was a design flaw, or assembly related issue.
Thanx for all the replies. It is good to know that there will always be jobs for us fixers, no matter what kind of technology.
To be fair, it wasn’t a design fault that caused the chaffing, someone in the past has wrapped a zip tie around a bunch of cables on top of the motor, pulling this pair of wires around a sharp corner. I was just frustrated not being able to see the sensor. If I was replacing the sensor I would’ve removed the air cleaner housing to gain some easier access. Not a big deal, just adds half an hours work to, what should be, a simple job.