Hi everyone, I'm just wondering how some of you would approach the following situation. If any of you have read my previous post, I'm looking for some dozers to do some farm development in West Africa. In terms of chosing a D8, which one of the following option would appeal to you more: Option 1 - An older D8 H/K After looking around the usual sites, I've managed to find some older H/K's but have relatively low hours on them (considering their age) and have generally been well maintained through their life. From just looking online, theres quite a few good deals about at the moment. Option 2 - A more recent D8 L/N These would be much more expensive than the H/K's I've found, and seem to have been 'well used' and clocked up some serious hours. I'm just curious what path others would go for if they were in my shoes. Do you snap up an older well priced machine that has reasonable hours or would you shell out the extra cash for the sake of having a more modern variant with a high drive but which has been subject to heavy use?
Is there any product support for either there? Covering as much ground as you will be that would be my primary concern.
pf/l - There is a Cat dealership locally, but they're not exactly well stocked and far from well run. It's largely a case of purchasing yourself from overseas and shipping by container, or air freight for items where it makes sense.
One machine or multiple machines?
One or two. Still yet to decide about my final configuration for the job.
I have run both the H/K and the "N" in particular among the high drives and there is not too much to endear itself about the "N" after you have spent some time on a nice "K" or an "H" for that matter aside from the nice cab and A/C that you are likely to get in the newer dozer in the summer here when it is hot and might be a game changer for you in your country.I have worked on jobs with the older D8s that had cabs but was always running something else at the time. The dozer in my avatar is a nice old "H",I was swamping out a road for a housing development in a rock pile because my boss did not have an excavator to assign to the job and was concerned that he might lose the contract if he did not show up with something.Those old D8s could pirouette on a rock pile and be just as comfortable there as on flat ground. After you have spent some time on one you will wonder what is wrong with all the other dozers.It isn't you,it is the machine. I probably have not given you much info here but if I had a choice in what I could run at least you might be surprised what I chose. I have run the smaller D5 high drives and for me and the work that a machine that size would be doing such as preparing a road base for gravel and process I thought that visibility off of the rear quarters while working around structures could be better and I would take a low tracked dozer for that task,otherwise they were a nice dozer but not sure how any of them would stand up for the long haul.I better shut up,you will get some good feedback here I am sure.Ron G
RonG - No bother at all. Any comments or input is always welcome. I mentioned the 'N' as for where we are, it's pretty much the latest used model you'd want to operate as it can be repaired by a 'mechanic' and not a 'technician'. In our scenario it's either purchase new or used machines which don't need a technician and a laptop. The strategy in my mind would be to look at models such as the older D6D, D8 H/K's and D9G/H. Not all on the market are ideal but if you shop around, you do find some real beauties with low hours that have been immaculately maintained and at a much more attractive price than a more recent 'dog' of a D8 L/N that has been worked to death somewhere. I just got this into my head after enquiring with a local machine sales company yesterday. He'd want around $130k USD for a D8N. They were dogs when he bought them in Europe and after use in Africa and being maintained by the locals, they're probably 'dogs with fleas' right now. However, unlike the civilised world, it's actually feasible to spend time maintaining older machinery out with us. The same dealer can put 4-5 guys on a machine for a whole month and only have a labour bill of circa $840. That just wouldn't be possible in the US/Europe/Australia.
Depending on the numbers, more than one machine would give you a mobile parts inventory.
Yeah, that's quite a common practice over here. We had 3 Volvo A25C's previously which all got into a bad state after heavy use. In the end we managed to make 2 good runners out of 3 machines.
As regards the high drive tractors, remember that the D8L-size machine model was re-numbered and became the D9N. A D8L is a much larger machine phsically and in engine/tractive power than a D8N.
Cheers for that Nige. Only been on this forum a few days and already learning loads
Gotta say that a D6D is up there in my book too,I ran one for several seasons and they are a very nice machine,well behaved and not a hanger queen.Ron G
RonG - Well behaved definitely ticks the box for me. Temperamental machines in the African bush are a real nightmare. It usually means a round trip to the capital to a better equipped facility costing $$$ in transport as well as waiting several days. We previously had a D6N along with 2 Hitachi excavators (EX355 and EX455) that were real drama queens and provided no end of headaches. With the EX355 we ended up having an electrician to blank some circuits on it to keep it moving.
Yair . . . rodtg. I have been out of the game for so long that my comments may be irrelevant . . . but I think you are thinking logical and right for your conditions. I have worked in PNG and Pacific Islands and in your position would stick with clutch and brake steering, standard non electronic engines and if a deal came up don't be afraid of a good stick shift . . . if you know the models the first two configurations I believe are available on the first of the hi-tracks. For the job as described I have found the early Komatsu 65's to be an excellent reliable tractor but the Cummins engine, although mechanical and reliable was a fairly specialised piece of kit and needs a fitter who knows the marque if it starts acting up. Whatever you get I suggest you have it fitted with rippers as, from your photographs of the earthworks that clay is crying out for hooks . . . just because they can cut and push it unripped doesn't mean they should. All the best with it. Cheers.
Keep in mind a D8L is a whole different tractor compared to a D8N. I have put a lot of hours on just about every model D8 made, including the old slide bar 8's. An H or K will push a 8N backwards easily when it comes to brute force. We did it blade to blade more than once just out of curiosity. Unlike RonG my vote goes to the 8N. The steering system in the N is completely different from all the older 8's. Power is never cut off from both of the tracks when turning like it is in an older one with clutches and brakes. I never saw one of our 8N's have final drive failures like the older 8's. I guess it is because the high drive design isolates the finals from taking the beating the flat track machines take. I can also tell you that if an H or K has an open canopy on it and the rubber bushings that they have on the bottom of the mounting posts are worn out the noise that they makes can deafen an operator in a short amount of time.
Yeah rodtg , My favorite "farm dozer " is the D 7 class . Big enough to do the job and easy to move . They would also be easier to ship overseas . I would be looking hard at a couple late model Cat D7G's .. Could still chain with them . I would outfit one with a rake & other with a Rome K/G blade . http://www.machinerytrader.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=11065653
D7G's on gov't auctions, like the one on your machinery trader link, have been going in the $50,000 price range. Won't be quite as new, and paint won't be as nice, but they look to be in good condition and usually have excellent undercarriages.
td25c - Now that's a beautiful D7. Great spec and looks the part. D6c10K - Yeah you can pick up some good deals on the govt auction sites. Going off on a tangent, I was looking keenly at the old AM General trucks back in August to mount a water well drilling rig on as our International truck is finished after 3 years on African roads. Tinkerer - The 8N's are very popular in out with us and a well kept one is a good workhorse. I get your comments on the final drives of the earlier H/K's etc. My old man took a D8H as part settlement of a debt back in the mid 1990's. A real powerful machine, but when the final drive went, a whole other story.
G'day rodtg , If going for the older h/k's don't put any Tom **** or Harry on them, put one good dedicated operator that can pick up the change in noises and smells before major damage is done. IMO the 8n would be a bit more forgiving in the environment your in. All the best with it Bill
Good call D6c10K ! But then again I would be happy with an old Cat D7E dozer ...... Four cylinder high horse cat banging through the bush . They used 3 tractors , two pulling chain & one back up to push over when chain tractors would spin out . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56bJ4RLF6tg
Yair . . . td25c. That third tractor is far more effective if it actually putting horsepower and weight onto the chain . . . pulling with three tractors is extremely effective. Commercially, other than in extreme conditions/big timber you could never justify a third machine tagging along behind. Cheers.
The D8K in high temp's found in Africa might be an issue, High Drive tractors might be a better option although a little team of D7G's would be simple to work on and simple to keep going as E.T. is not used on these mounts, the flat track high track thing never causes me any trouble as both set ups have there own dramas, my thoughts are not to put all the eggs in the 1 basket, if you buy 1 costly tractor and it lets you down as against 2 or 3 cheaper bits of iron that at least 1 might be still working? tctractors
Good point tctractors about using smaller units in numbers . Could buy 3 or 4 Cat D7E's for the clearing fleet . http://www.machinerytrader.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=10153079 http://www.machinerytrader.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=10530309 http://www.machinerytrader.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=6173166 Simple to work on and good parts support . Rodtg , Don't worry about working on them in the field ...... Contract Tony & Nige for that job . Air drop them on site for the bigger issues .
And if you get ones with similar S/N's and the radiator pops on one and the trans. pops on another you can build one good one!
Either one is a good machine. D8K is great. But the L or N wouldn't be bad, either. If you get a high sprocket, I would just make sure they had mechanical engines, with no electronics, unless there's a Cat dealer nearby.