Hi All I'm buying a D8L with a blown engine, the engine is beyond repair I have a spare 2005 3408 that came out of a 637 Scraper. I want to put the engine into the D8L. I would like some advice on this, what is involved. especially when it comes to the fuel system as it is electronically managed. Has anyone had any experience with this, or done this before. --
To the best of my knowledge you can't do this as a drop-in conversion because the D8L machine does not have the electronic capability to run the 3408E engine. You'd pretty much have to replace the complete electrical system with one from a D9R in order to be compatible with the engine. Remember that the D8L (mechanical injection engine) was replaced by the D9N (also mechanical injection) which was in turn replaced by the D9R (E-series engine with electronic controls & HEUI system). So what you are asking is basically jumping across not 1 but 2 generations of equipment. To try to convert the 637/3408E HEUI engine to mechanical injection. Again possible but extremly costly. Without digging deep into it I would hazard a guess that the only parts of any use would be the cylinder block and crankshaft. Pretty much everything else I would suspect is different. I would stand corrected on that if anyone else has information to the contrary. The other option might be to do some kind of swap of youe 3408E engine for a 3408 mechanical-injection engine which even if it was not from a D8L would probably only need tweaks to the fuel injection pump, a change of injectors & maybe also the turbo to make it fit the D8L.
Yair . . . Nige I know I am showing my age and ignorance but when you get time could you elaborate on this a little further? I had assumed an engine was an engine and would be furnished with it's own computer and control systems . . . why does it have to be compatable with the whole electrical system of the tractor?. . . for instance I am told there is an outfit in SA dropping electronic Cummins engines in remanufactured 621's. Cheers
They convert older machines to emissions engines in the usa all the time, I can't see it being that bad. You can put the latest greates corvette engine with computer in a 1920s hot rod, surely you can put an electronic 3408 in place of a mechanical. Yes, some wiring and idiot lights will be required but Its far from impossible.
Ben I agree with you. however (as always) there is a caveat. The OP asked about installing a 3408E engine originally from a 637 scraper in a D8L. There is an official Cat document to repower a D8L of 53Y prefix with a 3408E model engine, but that document says the replacement engine is Arrangement Number 256-7538, a 3408E engine arrangement specifically designed to drop in a D8L. The OP's 3408E engine arrangement from a 637 (I assume a G series) will be different as regards horsepower & torque characteristics, plus is sure to have some external differences like turbos and manifolds for a start. The biggest difference I can think of is that the 637G 3408E engine is jacket-water aftercooled, the engine arrangement required for the D8L is air-to-air aftercooled. Any incompatible iron can always be changed to suit the D8L installation if you throw enough money and man-hours at it, but where the real issue comes is engine electronics. The software contained in the Engine ECM of the OP's engine will be specific to a 637G, that's how the engine knows what it is after all. It is relatively simple to find out what the correct software is corresponding to the 256-7538 D8L installation, but a dealer version of Cat ET will be required in order to be able to load that software into the engine ECM - Customer ET does not have that capability. It doesn't end there though, all software for these engines has what's called an Interlock Code. Again this is a parameter that enables the engine to know what it is, and the difficulties really start when you find that the Interlock Codes for the 637G and the D8L are different (they are by the way). Flash D8L software into an ECM that was originally configured for a 637G and when you power up the electronics again you will have what's known as an "Interlock Code Mismatch" - software designed for one engine (D8L) will be in conflict with the Interlock Code for the former (637G) engine that will still be in the ECM, the software update will not have erased it. In this condition the engine will not start. To correct that mismatch requires passwords from the Cat Factory Password system and the first thing they will ask is the reason why. Even in my former life working for a dealer we had Cat refuse to give us Passwords in certain cases. I have no idea if they would refuse to do so in this case. The only solution if passwords were refused would be to buy a new blank ECM ($2000 approx.) which of course has no Interlock Code because it's blank and then flash it with the required software. With a new ECM you get "one free flash" so to speak when the ECM is blank. Just for sh1ts & giggles here's the list of components for a D8L that are included in the conversion kit and are required to install a factory-spec 256-7538 engine into an existing D8L. I cannot find a price, the system won't give me one. I can see that lot adding up to a number with a fair few zeros on it, with or without the engine ............... 256-7538 Engine Ar 163-5820 Alternator Gp 114-5540 Belt Tightener Gp 163-5812 Air Cleaner Gp 172-7938 Control Group (decelerator) 111-3261 Transmission Oil Cooler Gp (1) 163-1269 Lines and Cylinder Gp (2) 163-1268 Lines and Cylinder Gp (2) 169-1822 Damper and Pulley Gp (2) 169-3701 Fan Drive Gp 163-5815 Dust Ejector Gp 215-5594 Engine Enclosure Gp 233-5257 Blower Fan Gp 171-6464 Fuel Filter and Lines Gp (2) 218-8532 Guard As 190-3472 Fumes Disposal Gp 163-9106 Radiator Guard Gp 210-6222 Water Lines Gp 163-5817 Air Lines Gp 163-8416 Muffler Gp 163-5813 Radiator Gp 126-5396 Manifold Shield Gp 163-5814 Water Tank Gp 6E-4805 Control Valve Gp Is it technically possible..? Yes of course it is. But just don't underestimate the challenge of taking an engine that was not designed to drop into a track-type tractor and converting it (especially the engine electronics side) to do the job you want it to. If the OP wants to drop me a PM and include his e-mail address I will gladly e-mail him the Cat Special Instruction regarding the conversion.
Yair . . . Thanks Nige . I continue to be amazed by your knowlege. I am really gobsmacked the the industry . . . the customers I mean . . . have allowed the manufacture's to get away with this complexity. Surely if some of the big miners got together and gave Cat/Komatsu/Hitachi et al a gentle hint it might sharpen up and simplify the thinking . . . or is it not seen as being an issue to the big blokes? Cheers.
Lets not forget cab controls either. I just got a headache thinking about this. One could probly buy a new 3408 cheaper outright with no core and be pushing in a few days.
My apologies. The post above turned into something resembling War & Peace ........... The one thing that I was thinking about while driving home and before I sat down to pen the post above was "Why not use the 637 engine as incentive for a swap with cash in either direction for a mechanical-injection engine suitable for your D8L..?" Typical of me I got so into the technicalities of the engine swap I completely forgot. Thanks Overworked for pointing out what I missed .........
Hi Nige, Please email me the Instruction manual, will have a look at this. This is greatly appreciated, if we carry the job about will drop some feedback on how it goes. [email protected]
I would agree with what Nige has posted above, possible to do, of course, economical to do? h,mmmm me thinks not. I am looking at repowering 7PZ D11R,s with the C32 engine and i can trade the 3508 back into Cat for the C32.
A couple of thoughts struck me. IMHO it's not "electronic complexity", it's making sure some stupid mechanic (and believe me there are loads out there, I've met most of them!!) can't play Musical Chairs with engine ECM's without at least having some sort of insight into how they work, what they do, and what needs to be done to convert one ECM for use on another engine. Protecting people from themselves if you like. The issue is that your basic blank ECM is all the same Cat part number whatever engine of the 3400E range you have. From the outside they all look the same and so to our dumbass mechanic they should be interchangeable, right..? Wrong. Like a computer operating system it's the software inside them that gives the ECM its identity and you have to have at least some level of control on who can do what, when, & why to them. Re-flashing ECMs, changing Interlock Codes with Factory Passwords. To a dealer person it's all straighforward and simple, even the password system today is on-line so you can obtain passwords direct from your "mobile device" while you're sitting in the cab of the machine. I remember back in the day trying to find a location on many a job site that had a cell signal so that I could call the office and someone could call the factory on the phone and get passwords. That was before on-line passwords. Imagine how that was ......... What I wrote in my long post above was trying to explain to those "not in the know" the roadblocks that the person trying to make this conversion would come up against. The big issue, and I can't stress it enough, is that the engine the OP proposes to install WAS NEVER DESIGNED to go into a D8L. Taking your point about the "big miners getting together". We do and they still don't listen to us. However to be fair a lot of the electronics coming in today are relating with what manufacturers are being forced to do to comply with emissions regulations. So blame Greenpeace & the tree-huggers for that thank you very much.
To the OP. You have mail ..........
Yair . . . Thanks Nige . I appreciate the insights. Cheers.
Nice work Nidge
There is a lot more to blame them for than just that Nige !!
hopefully not after Sept
I know that Petersen Cat over in the Bay area did some of those conversions when California was paying for emission repowers. I don't believe that they were cost effective for the private consumer to pay for hence why California was spending more of the cash they didn't have. Independent Construction had the dozers and scrapers that I seen repowered.