Hey all, hoping for some opinions. D8R left final drive has the outer shell which houses 4 gears. Behind this has another shell which houses 4 smaller gears and a larger center gear. The center gear lost 2 teeth which broke one of the outer shell 4 gears. I did find a crack in the outer shell but the shafts were solid so shouldn't affect anything. Took the stuff to Cat dealer to be fixed and suddenly Cat calls and says every-single-gear AND both housing AND all bearings are bad. Honestly.. I think they're full of . I sat there and spun every gear and very carefully looked all over the gear where I could see. I mean I don't have Superman vision but does anyone else think that absolutely everything must be replaced or they say it will break again in a week is strange? On top of this they said even if I buy everything new from them and they put it together they still won't warranty it. I know no one can know for sure without seeing them. Just hoping for a best guess at chances of 90% of final drive components failing. Only thing that didn't "fail" we're the shafts Opinions? Thank you
Its a final drive reduction unit that is extremely high torque. Cat isn't going to repair anything like that and take chances on unseen damage since they would be responsible if it was to fail. I would do the same in my business. If you want to gamble on it then replace the parts you desire , but be warned it could fail even worse and cost a lot more. You should be able to find aftermarket parts for less money, but CAT will not use them.
Well I know we will NOT rebuild anything like that without first magnafluxing everything because no matter who you are you can't see all the cracks that could be there. We found that out when rebuilding a boatload of fiat finals for the FD50 and FD40's
Man.......that statement brought back some memories!
Ask the Cat dealer if they have Magnaflux capabilities. If the answer is no, as I suspect it might be, then that’s the most likely reason why they are recommending replacing everything - they have no way of telling which of the “undamaged” gears, etc, are good or not. As regards bearings, if I was going in there replacing broken parts I would definitely replace all the bearings at the same time. My 2c FWIW.
Cat offered 2 options. New parts or aftermarket. They sell/order both. They said they will not warranty either of them because they're not rebuilding the entire unit, part that's on the Dozer still. So not replacing because of warranty isn't what I'm asking. I'm wondering what the likelihood of every part being bad is. That's all. I'm not trying to find parts on my own this is stuff offered by cat and no choice on warranty. So then I'm faces with two choices: 1 is to spend 8k having it rebuilt no warranty and if it fails I pay again Or 2 replace broken parts and notnwhat doesn't look broken to my noob untrained eye for $800 without a warranty and if it breaks I then pay 8k to replace everything I have no problem replacing it all if it needs it but is it normal to completely replace the brackets and everything or did I just get a bad roll on this one?
Answer a couple of questions for me. What does the dozer do for you?.....just straight pushing? ripping? And how many hours a week does it work? And do you make your living with it?
Have they given you a quotation with a list of the Part Numbers they want to replace..? If so, please post it up here. I’m sure I wouldn’t be the only one who would like to see it.
1 center gear, one carrier, one retainer, the inner carrier that houses the center gear, 1 shaft, 8 cups, 8 cone rollers, 4 gears that go on the outer carrier, 8 cones, 8 cups, one ring and 16 bolts. Not sure what the bolts are because I took all bolts off and disassembled myself except for pressing the pins. Maybe there's 16 bolts inside that I don't know about Push with some ripping for a month then auction was the plan.
It takes what it takes and you pay what you have to pay when you have someone else repair your stuff. You could go in and have them show you what their concerns are and then tell them the parts you want to reuse. They have no incentive to reuse parts to save you money and you have no leverage over them to force them into a compromising situation that may cost them money.
If the dealer is not giving a warranty on the rebuilt final drive, even if they replace the long list of parts given by the OP, then I'm not sure how they could end up in a situation where it costs them money. Maybe I'm missing something. Good advice from John C. Go there and have them show you why all the parts they are quoting need to be replaced. Difficult to identify the actual parts without the corresponding Part Numbers to go off. Check out the illustration on the attachment. Which reference numbers are they talking about replacing..? BTW the 16 bolts are the self-locking bolts for the planetary shaft retainer plates - they have to be replaced every time they are removed.
Again, no warranty, no risk to them. A senior member mentioned there is no way to tell if a gear with no physical damage to the eye is structurally compromised. So far that's the type of info I'm looking for. Either way the responsibility is mine. In my novice opinion if a high impact steel gear has no visible defects to the eye then it could be good or bad. Cat is currently breaking down a D8N. I bought a few parts off it and they said they're keeping the gears to sell as rebuilt. So if the gears in that older D8N are worth 12k to the cat dealer as a complete used part.. how do they know those gears don't have a defect even though they look defect free to the eye? The answer is they're willing to take the chance of repairing it on their cost as long as it's under warranty. So it should be the same for me. No matter what they will not offer a warranty whether it's new parts or the cat certified aftermarket parts. However I don't have experience like nice folks on here. In order support my theory I'm looking for opinions like the senior member saying if it looks good there's no way to tell if it's good or not. This suggests they're being careful as keeps being mentioned by why are they being careful when they state up front "we are not responsible if it breaks no matter what you do" I hope what I'm saying makes sense. Telling me high impact steel isn't good when it "looks" fine and they have no other reason than they don't recommend it sounds strange to me. If they said they'll warranty it I'd say sure charge whatever.
One 9w-3373 One 9w-3232 One 9w-9392 One 6v-3298 One 6y-1336 One 8e-7533 Eight 1m-7911 Eight 1m-7912 Four 9w-3372 Eight 7t-9526 Eight 7t-9527 Plus all seals and stuff, 16 bolts, thanks for explaining those Nige!
The bolts are only $0.65 each, so @ $10 for the lot they're the least of your worries........... The only thing I would be asking for an explanation of would be why the two carriers, 9W-9392 & 6Y-1336, need to be replaced. Those two together come to close to $7000. Even if they are not fit to re-use "as-is" does a salvage procedure exist for them where they can be built up by welding/metal-spraying and machined..? The rest of it is pretty standard, a new sun gear & retainer, plus the four planetary gears for the failed gear train, plus one planetary shaft which I assume was damaged in the failure. I don't know about others but personally I wouldn't be up for reusing the planetary gear bearings after pressing the pins in & out once.
All sounds good, I appreciate your opinion. They said the outer carrier has a crack and the inner carrier has a hole that's spun and won't hold the shaft. They said it's not possible to weld the crack or repair a spun hole
In my opinion it's very much a partial repair from the list of "major" parts that you mentioned above. I always thought spun holes were repairable, but with a new inner carrier priced at around $2900 it may not be cost-effective.
I would look for good used from iron peddlers or such other places have cat go thru it and put bearings in it if it looks good , i had to buy one from iron peddlers a couple years ago and have cats machine/hydrualic shop convert it into a waste handling arrangment , it was pricey all together but was still cheaper then waiting and paying for a new part that was in the phillipines.
I agree with Nidge what is wrong with the carriers unless they are broken or the hole is wallowed out where the shaft goes you rarely have to replace them I would go wit new bearings and have the gears magnafluxed
Cat does offer a OR for these carrier with spun hole can br repaired the inner planet gears are 145.00 each and the sun gear is 152.00 aftermarket
Dave, I'm fairly sure the outer carrier with the crack in it (see post #15 above) would not qualify for Reman Core Credit, and if you don't get that you might as well buy a new one becaiuse it will be the same price. Not sure about the one with the spun hole. I checked for Salvage Guidelines and although I could find a lot of stuff for salvaging off-highway truck & certain wheel loader planetary carriers there was nothing similar for track-type tractors. That kinda surprised me because I was under the impression that all final drive carriers were salvageable using the same processes.
Yes they would not give credit for a cracked case. I would want to see the bad carriers. I would think you could sleeve the spun hole. I can't beleive that they want to replace all those parts and not Warranty it. If that was the case I would go with aftermarket parts nd run it
The pin bores are regularly rebuilt by metal spraying. I have been involved with a number of 10T and 777 units recently. There are service guidelines and size specs available.
I was looking in Salvage Guidelines Ray. Maybe I should have been looking at Service Mags or Special Instructions....
Center has broken teeth and top is destroyed. Other 3 don't have physical damage but I don't know how worn the teeth are.
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Ide risk the $1000.00 myself and put in 2 new gears and bearings in the one.
I would say that's been awfully hot based on the colour of the carrier..........I don't think I would trust any bearing in that assembly to go again after it had been to that temperature. Also the oil in the last photo looks kinda thick & discoloured, but that may just be because it's been so hot. I'll agree to disagree with my learned friend above and say that I wouldn't risk the other three undamaged planet gears in that reduction assembly however good they looked. When you're already in for 2 new carriers at $7k for the pair an extra $1k for the gears is neither here nor there.
Agreed thanks for your time
Where is the crack on the outside carrier and I looked on machinery trader and they show a bunch of used planetarys
The crack was along one of the shank holes
yea that is a bad place to have a crack a lot of stress there
Cat asked if they could keep the old parts. Funny, wonder why if they're no good and can't be repaired Dozer is running again yay
Tell them to FRO (aka "that'll be be a no"), unless they are prepared to explain exactly why they want them and/or are prepared to pay for them......