so i stumbled upon these units and think they would be an excellent addition to the jcb. i havent figured out yet if they claim to ride smoother than an air tire. i hate to call to hear the price... http://www.michelintweel.com/
offroad use only.....
What happens when those "vanes" in the tires get packed full of rocks and mud?:cool2
Thats what I want to know
just called on them. $1000 bucks a tire. well, we will prolly continue rolling the 150 dollar tires we have currently then. i still might try the michelin radial skid loader tire at some point. i hear they are between 400 and 600 a tire, but they claim to last forever.
Either they had just left the methadone clinic or need to go.... that's outrageous.
Airboss tires (an Australian invention) have been around for about 20 yrs. I think Michelin have been smoking something if they think they have a totally new idea. http://www.solidboss.com/segmented.asp It appears Michelin just waited until all the Airboss patents lapsed before they produced their own version of the Australian Airboss tyre. http://www.ipaustralia.com.au/applicant/airboss-tyres-pty-ltd/patents/
well this is a totally different concept than the solidboss. i believe michelin has been tinkering with the tweel idea for a very long time. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqRJ9GfIJtI
Michelin has had these around for a long time. Time Magazine rated them one of the best inventions of 2005 and they had already been in use on robots and military vehicles for awhile then if that gives an idea. Patent law is interesting. Look at the CVT transmission. Fendt has a patent for their version, however others have built their own versions of a planetary based hydromechanical drive system. Then look at Apple, they let them patent square objects with round corners. Patents are turning into nothing more than a money maker for lawyers. Totally new idea? No. Air less tires have been around a long time so have tires. Did Michelin not have a "new idea" when they invented the removeable tire? It was still round and rubber but could be easily dismounted and remounted without the lengthy process of gluing the tire to the wheel. How about the detachable steel wheel? What about the "tubeless" tire that we all couldn't live without today that Michelin invented. The first truck tires with steel casings? Would you say Michelin didn't have a "new idea" when they invented the radial tire in general, as well as the radial tire for trucks, off-road equipment, airplanes and motorcycles? It was still a tire, but it changed the way we think about tires and now everybody has a radial and Michelin does not have anything but radials in every industry. How about their "Green X/Energy" compounds that are at work saving fuel and tire expenses everywhere. They took the ag tire and created the first one to run at constant low pressure greatly reducing compaction and increasing traction. Ever seen a truck going down the road with super singles? Michelin there too. They are working a lot on their active wheel now too. My point is simply that they obviously did not reinvent the wheel, but you need to keep a much more open mind about things or we would still be back gluing tires to rims. My point is also to show that Michelin is full of talented people with very creative minds, they've invented most of the key industry wide improvements to the wheel that we use today. New idea? Yes. Air Boss is a different concept using hollowed out rubber sections. The replaceable sections are nice, however the tire does not provide impact resistance or ride near that of a pneumatic tire. The Tweel appears to have better impact resistance. May not be important to many on here, but on a dairy farm its the number one concern. The Tweel uses a flexible tread band that is connected to polyurethane spokes which are connected to the inner supporting wheel. Its in use on many things already for the military and robotic machines. It is in testing on cars but they say it is too noisy for passenger vehicle use. I don't think their price is ridiculous, last set of solid tires I was quoted was $3,000. Michelin tires are always more expensive but generally deliver more for the money. heres another video showing them on cars. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAWXd5J3Rg0&feature=fvwrel I wouldn't mind trying a set of them on our barn skid steer. That one will be due for tires soon and Michelin Radial's are going on it then, however these may be a good candidate for this machine. Looks like the Cat tires will get to about 800-900hrs or so, at 700hrs now and getting down there, but we run them to skins generally. I also rotate them at 500hrs as the rears wear much faster due to our environment. The concern about mud and rocks in the hollow sections is one I have too, I guess it would be something you would have to try and see, I would think with the constant flexing they would evacuate most of it, however stones would be the one I would worry most about and the abrasion wear the particles would have on the poly. The guy who wanted them for highway use, I'm not sure how fast your skid steer goes but ours only do 12mph, but if you wait a few years it seems they are trying to get them for cars too.
Well put.
We use a similar tyre from Cat called Flexport for our skid-steers. They have a hard life and were constantly puncturing on normal tyres. I just checked and we pay $850 a tyre for the ones we use. Money well-spent IMO.
ah what a sweet response. we are in the process of going with all michelin tires on the farm. they used to be prohibitively expensive. but on a tractor for example they are only a few hundred more a tire. well, double the price of sweet tires from india. i see michelin has the "VF" technology now which apparently means very flexible sidewall, which would be even more excessive than their standard tire. if you can get your tire pressure around 8 pounds i find your ride quality is significantly better, obviously. so the jcb skid steer continues to be a sweet ride. only got 200 hours on it so far, but that will quadruple in the next few months. it was in the shop twice once for an oil leak and another time for a whole new boom to solve the boom hitting the cab occasionally problem. the verdict on the joystick controls is if your looking to control your machine, if you wanna go fast, and if your looking for peak performance, they are not the way to go. i can run circles around myself with the bobcat hand and foot controls over the joysticks. give me a bobcat s175 and some technical work to do, and i would bet any money i could get way more work done than someone in a joystick controlled machine of a much bigger size. that being said, i am willing to sacrifice performance for comfort; i think the best compromise was the standard case controls on the 3 series.
OH OHHHH ! ..... sounds to me things are not so great in mono boom land .....LOL SOUNDS Like a Challenge to me Dave ! ........ How Much MONEY !!! ..... LOL
There is a guy on another Forum that is trying to get JCB to buy his new machine back. He states numerous oil leaks, and continual breakdowns. I was curious how yours was holding up. With two hundred hours you may not be familiar enough yet with hand controls and so hand foot would be easier for you. The fact that they are EH makes it even worse.
i know that 200 hours might not seem like enough to make a judgement on the controls, but it is clear that it will never be possible to be as good as i am with the bobcat. the jcb e/h seems to be about as nice as it can be. you can be as precise as you want with it, but you really gotta slow down to get really precise. i would say a straight pilot control would be better in some regards, but i think the e/h has benefits as far as cold weather operation, and unintended movement from various factors. now that the new bobcat 500s are out, i would be interested in trying one of those out mainly to see how the e/h controls work. i believe bobcat still has a heavier feel to their joysticks, which i would not be happy with at all; i really like the effortless joystick on the jcb. i am quite surprised we had a problem with the boom. of all the things to get right you would think that would be the first. the one thing i do not like about the jcb is visibility to the tires is hit or miss, which is inconvenient since you cant feel too much what is going on with the e/h. both jcb and the dealer were there for us instantly with the problems. so far i am happy with the purchase.
allow me to set up the course, n i would prolly put 2k on the line as a friendly wager. i really should post a vid of the skills on utube at some point. problem is the better i get at the joysticks, the worse i get at the bobcat.
I told you about the boom Dave. I even sent you a video link I found on YouTube with a mulcher on a brand new machine with the arm hitting. I hope this "2nd" arm is better , but I think it will start to hit after it has some hours on it. They get sloppy from having weight out front and the machine turning left and right. Good luck.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vrp5ThGlbC4
????
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWaLLovhYD4 these guys are decent skid steer operators. ah they brought out the loaner L 170 new holland while the jcb is in the shop getting some tweaking. i will never know how anyone would own and L 170. its got 1300 hours on it and all the bushings and pins are shot and the boom is ridiculously sloppy, not to mention the controls work excessively hard in the cold. and its excessively hard to get in and out of, and the visibility is terrible. not to mention you gotta be so careful not to hurt the rear end. not to mention a hydraulic oil line broke cuz of their goofy routing around the boom. i dont know if its all that bad or if im just spoiled from the jcb. the jcb is the only way to go for a skid steer.
so i been cruisin in old faithful while the jcb is in the shop. it is definitely a love hate relationship with the bobcat. i always did maintain that that thing sucks all the dirt right into the cab for some reason. i can really boogie with the controls though. now that i have spent some time in the jcb, i really do feel unsafe safe around the bobcat. first of all in a fire situation, you could easily die getting trapped in that cab. i get slightly claustrophobic in it now. also, clambering over buckets and such i find to be super hazardous now too, not to mention getting out with the boom in the air. jcbiron, have you been hearing any feedback on the electric controls yet? so my buddy had a case 90xt which he loved obviously, then went to a case 445 s3 and thought it was alright, then bought a sv 250 and hated everything about it. but now has an sr200 and likes it for the most part.
All I can say is I'm glad its not my skidsteer in the video. Michelin makes premium products for a premium market. Not every skid steer is going to benefit from the technology, but if you have an application that justifies a premium product, it is an investment, not an expense. My old Gehl 7810 only gets about 100 hr a year and the pneumatic tires are adequate for its application. I have Michelin tires on a couple of farm tractors and wouldn't trade them for anything else, even though they are somewhat more expensive.
We'll be putting a set of the Tweel's on our 262C2. Talked to one of the people at Michelin Tweel about them on Friday as I was thinking about them for our Barn 242B3 which will need tires this spring. Today one of the workers stabbed the bale spears through the two front tires on the 262C2 and ruined them beyond repair. Still had a good 75% tread or so I would say. Got some bald ones to hold it over while we wait for the Tweel's to show up. I asked him how they dealt with debris getting in the fingers. He said in all of the testing that they have done the fingers have kept themselves clean by ejecting anything that gets into them due to them constantly flexing and contracting. He said they resist buildup of mud and most likely manure as well due to constant movement of them. Makes sense to me. He said they will be having people get the Tweel's retreaded at local retread shops. They don't plan on having an exchange program for them at this time and do not know if they will. He said the weight of them would make it too costly to send them back to North Carolina to be retreaded. They weigh around 200lbs new. Cost of retreading would be dependent on the local shop that does them. He said the solid tires with the holes through them were originally designed to allow better curing of the rubber. With a solid tire the outside ends up over-cured and brittle, the holes allow them to cure the inside easier and keep the outside soft. The side-effect of this process was a tire with slightly better ride and appearance that it "squished". Made sense and sounds legit, but it is the competions products so take it for what it is worth. The Tweel's look like they will be nice. I really hope that they perform as well as they say and show when turning short on pavement or with the boom in the air. The bias pneumatic and solid tires like to make the skid steer dance a lot. The Tweel and their radial both are supposed to combat this as they release the tension slowly and in a controlled way versus abruptly like the bias and solid tires. I will definately be sure to keep this thread updated on their performance on this machine. This machine gets used for everything else on the farm. One 242B3 is used for scraping pens, bedding pens, pushing feed and carrying some bales around. The other 242B3 is used primarily for feeding and move bales and pallets of feed around as well. The 262C2 gets the rest of the jobs, picking rocks, moving bales, moving bedding, building fencelines, grubbing out trees and old fencelines, moving snow and anything else its needed for. If this set fairs well and we decide we like them, the Barn 242B3 will probably get a set as it will need some in spring time. The Feeding one should make it untill next fall/winter
Wow , i would never hire anyone who runs a skid like that.Prying excessively on the hammer tip , balancing slabs on top of the hammer, throwing the slabs into the truck instead of gently placing them on the bottom of the trailer as to not dent it,pinching the hyd hoses with the slabs,then the guy with the bucket, picking up more base material then concrete(here you could turned away at the recycling facility for not having clean loads)
I agree. Those guys remind me of a paver I know, always balls to the wall. He will run his motor grader full throttle and then kill the ignition with it in gear. All his guys run WOT and then just shut the machine off. Then this guy cusses and throws things when his equipment breaks down, which is often. ointhead Last job he and I were on at the same time, he was using his Case 580 as an asphalt profiler, I felt sorry for the old Case.
Dave, We sell many more large platform machines than small, so my experience is somewhat limited at this point, but I haven't heard anything bad out of the guys that are running the EH controls (yet!). I think overall, JCB did a fine job with the feel and responsiveness of the controls. I'm sure some would and can argue that a sensitivity adjustment would be welcomed, since everyone has their own preference, but I think they started at a happy medium. We will be getting ISO/H-pattern switching later this year on both the small platform and large platform (which are also getting EH for T4i). Who knows, maybe there will be an adjustment feature too? Haven't heard anything at this point. How do you like the EH controls?
i have heard they will have a sensitivity dial on the newer models. do you know of any other changes they will be making? the EH i am satisfied with at this point. when we first got the machine we had them make some adjustments with the pressures on the EH and found out real fast you dont wanna mess with it. so we returned it to factory settings; the only time i feel the controls could use some kinda tweaking is when your trying to rotate the machine in tight spaces. but when your just out and about moving bales around, loading the spreader, moving a pile of dirt around, plowing snow, etc they work just beautiful. originally they were supposed to have the pattern changer right off the bat on the smaller models but that never made it i guess. i would like to have it mainly just for fun, and to become competent with every pattern out there. so i went to get in the bobcat the other day and the loader had settled so it was right in front of the door at that point so i had to squeeze through the 4 inch space and bend the door to get in; i was like whats up with this?!
Running H pattern with EH controls isn't as easy as it seems. You are no longer physically moving sticks forward and back. The guys that prefer that pattern and are used to it on the bobcats, but know the Iso pattern as well are always running the 262 on Iso. They said its like having to learn a different pattern again so its just easier to run iso. Its nice for random people that jump in though. Take the attachment off before you park it next time. haha.
ic they brought us out a brand new jcb 205 to use while ours is in the shop getting the boom worked on. boom has not hit the cab on the new one thus far. it did with ours when it was new. im impressed the new 205 is exactly the same as ours. there is something to be said about jcb just having the standard jcb controls that work the same from machine to machine. our neighbor bought a new new holland skid loader. sv250 equivalent or something. kept it but bought a deere 6 months later hes not to impressed with the new holland.
We do a lot of demolition and brush clearing work and had the same issues in regards to the Tweel. Was at a Tire Dealer that sold them and as far as he knew the only people he sold any to were Dairy Farmers. You would almost think they could develop a Sidewall to shield out any debris/objects. 1 miserable piece of Rebar can ruin anyone's day.
They have been working good for us, we have sliced a few "tendons" but it hasn't hurt the performance. I probably wouldn't want them where side injury is common though like in demo. Great tread life though. Getting close to 2000hrs on half tread.
so i vaguely remember someone commenting that j c b s are harder to get in and out of than a traditional skid steer, that is absolutely not true. i also recall him saying cases are better and that j c b s are junk. the local mechanic who works on cases says he wouldn't buy one; lots of trouble with tier 4. just looking at the pics of the wacker neuson i would say they have case new holland and deere beat right at the get go.
So the Cases in Tier are having lots of trouble?!! Don't get me nervous, because I'm looking at the Case SR220's...
Consider the source of the information. I would read back through the posts over the past couple years and decide for yourself if the information is credible.
What I always have good information! All I'm doing is citing the local guy who works on them. If case customer service is anything like Jcb customer service I wouldn't worry about problems they're having because they will simply solve them. But I would definitely recommend more than a six month warranty which a lot of the machines have I do enjoy the five-year Jcb warranty it is handy. I think it was an extra $1400 for the additional three years over the standard two years which I found to be a no-brainer
3 CASE is currently running 3 year 3000 hour warranty. I know of no machine that only comes with a 6 month warranty other than my Polaris RZR. I would like to here more of these Tier 4i issues. Some guy posts about liking CASE better than JCB and suddenly you know a mechanic that works on CASE machines that says they are having trouble? Considering the experience FPT has in this area, I would be very surprised of any major issues popping up, certainly I would have heard about it. The WN machine will cause fits for some OEMs, no doubt about that.
...hear more.... Sorry, It's been quite some time since I've posted, and had to take the opportunity to bust your b*lls on the typo...
KSSS, thanks for the input...seeing how I only joined this forum here about a month ago and asked you about the Case machines since that is what you run, I should have known better as you have given me great and trustful information.. so this may sound dumb, but is FPT a member on here? or is that something else? still picking up on the lingo in here..Sorry!!
i feel that k s s makes this forum slant case more than it does j c b! i didn't get into much detail but i believe the issues were cold weather related. i assume this means keeping them running in -30 to -20 degrees F. i believe my buddies case sr200 he bought a few years back had a 6 month warranty. since we are getting back into which machines are better, I have yet to find anyone who thinks case has moved forward with their new new holland machines. the days of the 90xt and the 440s3 are gone; both machines i would have considered owning. i probably would have bought a 440 back in the day if they weren't so expensive when a regular old s185 would do for our operation. how anyone can conclude case makes the best machine is beyond me. i am very open minded believe it or not. and am not loyal to any brand.
You do realize that the mechanic at the case dealership is not really the best source of info? Of course he sees they have issues it's his job. He doesn't go out to all of the machines that don't have issues just to say hi. He works on broken ones. All emissions equipment causes issues. It's mechanical so it will break. Over time things get better. I don't think any one OEM is better than the other in this area and like I have said before I think it's foolish to buy a machine solely based on emissions equipment.
FPT=Fiat Powertrain Technologies. The engine that is in the CNH machines. Fiat owns CNH as well. They are an Italian company that has experience in emissions controls due to their on road truck program (Iveco).
I don't think that I slant this skid steer forum toward CASE (I hope your trying to funny). I provide end user input to Wacker Neuson's skid steer project and spent a week in Vegas during ConExpo helping them with their project. I try to be objective in my comments regarding OEM's and different machines. However since I have 2 decades and 20K hours in a CNH product that's where my knowledge base starts from. As to whether or not CASE has moved forward with the Alpha series, I think in most ways it certainly has. It has taken a step back in a few others. I think that is true with every machine upgrade in the industry. There are BC guys that miss their pre M series BC machines. The D series CAT took some steps forward but not all the steps were in the right direction. I will quickly point to a few pluses and couple negatives. The cab on the Alpha is one of the best in the industry. Its roomy, AC is powerful, cab filter effective and visibility is generally really good. I would like to move the wiper motor but I don't even notice it any more. I would love to lose the info console in the Alpha. CATs info console in the D series is outstanding. The machine is much easier to service now. The EH while initially caused me some issues has been remedied with the EZ/EH update. I lost a total of two hours down time waiting for my new handles to be installed. I like the EH controls in the way they feel and the their response and so do my employees. Some really struggled with it when I first got my Alpha, I have the receipts from having to fix a new Cleary building that one of my guys hit while finishing some site work. It is all good now, this should have been the finished product when they introduced the machine. Downside: Having run the XT and 400 series machines since inception, I do miss a few things that are not present on the Alpha. The HD design of the older machines. The Alpha is simply not built as heavy. When I attended the Alpha unveiling, this was brought up. CASE said that the prior machines were designed when steel was cheap and you likely never see a skid steer from anyone built as HD as were the XT and 400 series. I believe that. I think the Alpha is smarter in design, but I miss the HD feel of the 400 series. Lastly, I liked the saddle type coupler connection like found on a large wheel loader verse the canterlevered design of the Alpha and used by BC and others. CASE marketed against that for decades and now they adapted it. The Alpha roll out was rough, certainly more rough than it should have been. I think CASE should have held off on the roll out until they had the EH better figured out, not so much on the large frame machines but certainly the smaller ones. I will give CASE credit in the sense that they have continually updated the EH controls and couple other updates without costing me anything. I am very happy that the two hours of downtime is the full extent of my loss of paid time on my CTL. It has been very productive and an absolute money maker for me. Your friend did not buy a new CASE SR200 that only had a 6 month warranty. Perhaps if he bought it used, but not new. Depending on what programs may have been running the worst it would have been is 1 year bumper to bumper and 2 year engine warranty. I am not even convinced that your mechanic that works on CASE machines is in fact a CASE employed mechanic. Lastly Dave, as to your question as how someone could conclude that CASE makes the best machine? I think that is subjective, I don't know if there is such a thing as the best machine. Many people can offer their opinion on the question, but certainly they are only opinions. I run them because I have good service from my dealer, the resale is excellent, and I have built a business using them, their productivity has made me a lot of money over the years. Could I have done all of these things with another color? Perhaps it would not have mattered, but in my view CASE skid steers as whole are as good of a machine as is out there. I will not say that they are the best for every operation, but I like the overall package that CASE puts together.
And I deserved it. Sometimes my mind runs faster than my fingers. Where have you been? Painting the JCB's red I bet.
Today was the first day that I actually really needed the a/c in my TR. It wasn't preforming as well as I thought it should. I checked the filter...wow! I don't think the previous owner ever cleaned it. It looked worse than a shop vac filter after vacuuming up a bag of cement. The wiper motor location hasn't really bothered me, but I have hit the wiper switch by accident more than a few times. I've modified my exit strategy and no more problems. I still need to check out the EZ/EH update. I was prying out hard clay today and can't even imagine placing all of that stress on a single arm loader. No matter how much dave praises his ride, it still seems like a gimmick.
Much easier to service than previous Case models? I haven't been around previous Case models, just previous NH models so to me the Alpha series is a nightmare to service. I figured his friend may work at the Case dealer (maybe sweeps floors) because all of the Tier 4 machines would be worked on by a dealer right now and not independents. Could be an independent just making a statement not from experience too. If he was talking to a case mechanic about the new machines I think there would be a few other issues that would be at the top of his list far before Tier 4 issues. At least that is what I have gathered from the actual CNH techs around here. I don't think anyone on here has ever said a machine was simply the best, other than Dave assuming people have. It's not middle school, we all respect each others opinions on why we like our current brand choices and learn from each other. Someone who says something is the best looses my attention quickly because to me I feel they simply don't know the machine (which many dont), they are blinded for whatever reason or they just lack some mental capacity to realize there are other things. People who lack those skills often lack the skills needed to provide useful insight on machines as well.
The location of the intake on that series machines did not work well for us at all, plugged the filter immediately. I wish it was off to the side or something where dust doesn't settle. Maybe a cab pre cleaner even. I hate cab filters, the C series Cat's location is slightly better but with the cooling fan drawing air from the side as well it ends up full pretty quick too. In the summer I just block the fresh air inlets and force it to recirculate. We do this on silage trucks and such too as you don't need the fresh air anyways.
everyone is always mean to me on the forums. if anything my credibility should be increasing because all my predictions are coming true. has anyone driven past yes j c b lately? j c b skid steers are showing up all over the place these days. my source on the case is right from the horses mouth... I'm not giving out names and numbers because this is the internet after all. the benefits of the single arm vastly outweigh the benefits of having 2 arms. i challenge anyone to make a longer list of significant pros for any machine than the one I'm about to make for the j c b. SAE audit best visibility and easiest service. safest skid steer on the market bar none. largest cab in the industry no significant t4 shenanigans. no dpf/regeneration. no scr. rugged design best fuel economy in the industry quietest cab by far in the industry available 5 year bumper to bumper warranty no stacked radiators cleanest under cab design very easy service of all components comparatively safest/easiest/most accessible exit in emergency exit situation fastest entry and exit ability to exit machine at any time regardless of bucket position modular cab pressurized super clean design with automotive quality fit and finish fastest quick hitch in the industry lifetime boom warranty longest service intervals fewest parts in the industry on a skid steer outstanding customer service and support no climbing over and tripping on attachments (i have been injured and i have seen many injured by this) high torque capability of 2 speed ability to be productive at 1/3 throttle lowest effort to drive standard panoramic rear view mirror joystick mounted directly to arm rest most convenient lap bar in the industry no hydro noise, rattles, funny noises in cab easiest machine to clean/keep clean
Most of those features can easily be claimed by other OEMs too with the exception of those related to the loader arm.
The joys of marketing. Like CNH having the widest cab by 0.5". Doesn't matter that its an insignificant amount, its still the widest. (not picking on them just an example I could think of). Or an OEm having the most powerful machine by 0.2hp or something. Many of the points made are personal opinions as well and/or could be argued the other way easily such as the supposed SAE claim for them having the best visibility. Providing you never turn right with the boom in the air then sure. I give the best visibility to CNH though. I drive by all the time, theres JCB's showing up on their lot often, on the lot..... thats not in the field. I know a few people with them who like them and a few who had them and went away. They have their place. Their dealer is about 100' closer drive than Bobcat so if I need to change brands I'll probably go there first.
/ I think we have debated this before. My idea of service is changing oil, replacing fuel and hyd. filters and so forth, in that context the Alpha is very good. Even providing drip funnels on the hyd filter. I don't think it could be made much easier. I believe that you are referencing changing out alternators and so forth and in that I have not had the pleasure yet. The 400 series was more time consuming, and worse than the XT machines in that sense. The XT was built around the Cummins 3.9T but when they switch engines in the 400 series (which body wise was much the same as the XT machines) some of the service points became more difficult. Considering the service intervals and so forth it was not a big deal but the Alpha is a pleasure to service in comparison.
Dave, I was going to quote all of that but I wont. I don't know if you put this stuff out there to illicit a some type of a response or what your purpose is. I am glad you like them, someone has to, they went to a lot of expense to build them. I will say that JCB if nothing else is persistent. Komatsu after like 10 years of trying to break into the NA skid steer market gave up. JCB has been in NA twice as long and has been less successful to date and yet they are still here. Had they been that persistent 240 years ago, we might still be a British colony.
As for JCB. Our company bought two 185 Robots a few years back. After the experience with them it will take a lot of fancy talk by someone to convince us to buy another. Major pain to service, price on parts that will make Cat parts look like buying stuff at the dollar store. Need simple part and being told that we need to buy complete assembly. Like the stud in the control handle that broke and they said only way to fix is to buy the complete valve assembly for hundreds of dollars. Wat to complicated mounting arrangement for tilt cylinder, nine joints to do what should be done with two! Entrance door that when glass gets broke they want to sell you a complete door. Little parts that hold sliding glass in place, again buy complete door! Plastic gauge panel so thin it cracks if you look at it cross eyed! I could go one but....
i put this stuff out there cuz i simply can't believe how everyone is so quick to dismiss j c b. i believe k s s randomly commented how wacker is gonna give oems a run for their money (or something to that effect). and nobody said a word about it. back in the day when i said such things about j c b i got attacked from every side! sure j c b may not have the best reputation in the country, but neither did chrysler ford and chevy; and now they are all making great vehicles (well some better than others). people can change; the only parts i have needed to buy for the j c b were a few fuel filters. i believe they were $3.99 a piece (no, they didn't tell us that comes with a new engine haha). one thing we can agree on is j c b took nothing but leaps and bounds forward with their new models. i always had respect for the robots, but my attention was not grabbed until the release of the new ones. is everyone aware that bobcat has now hit 1,000,000 machines? now that is something. i do have to admit with bobcats transverse mounted engine, they have the easiest filters/oil changes. so is everyone saying wacker will have more success with their machines than j c b?
I think it is all in presentation and attitude. I have stayed away from this discussion because I know very little about JCB. I did look at the wacker stuff at Conexpo. Anyway....try not to hurt each other's feelings.. Heavy equipment operaters tend engage in quite a bit of argueing, in my experience. Good luck, CD
Every one of these Volvo JCB machines I have been on have had the loudest cabs and hydro noises of any skid steer I have ever been around. The vibration in the cab hurts my ears. I have found though if you just idle them around or give them just a little throttle its not nearly as annoying as it is when you give them more than a quarter throttle. Btw it is not all that easy to get in and out of the cab either with that big hump over the front tire in the way of your feet when you try to swing them around to get out of the door.
They dismiss JCB due to past experiences or lack of support in their area for them. The detroit analogy is a poor one, I still dont think any of them build good vehicles. When they build vehicles that can easily make it to 200k without many issues then maybe I will buy them. Until then I like my VW's and feel the Asians take the cake otherwise. The Duramax is about the only "American" vehicle I will buy and it started out with the Japanese anyways. If we're on the topic of COO effecting things, the Brits really don't have the best reputation for any equipment or autos. The reason Wacker may be more successful quicker is due to the amount of customers they already have along with the quality Germans are known for. We probably did. Filters are generally pretty easy on them, except for the inline fuel filter and the air filter on the smallest machines. The alternator looks like a pain but the starter is my concern because we would go through a couple per year on our older NH machines. They were easy to do, not so on the newer ones. I consider the starter as much of a wear part as anything, but outside of that I don't worry too much. I think ease of repair is important though even if you or I don't end up having to fix them much, somebody down the road will. I think most newer machines are easy to change filters on, but I would like to know who bitched and convinced Cat to move the battery back to the rear versus under the cab where there is plenty of room for it. Now the oil filter is going to be a nightmare for many simple minded people who like to complain instead of just find the right tool (strap wrench). I also have a thing against cabs flipping forward because in order to do any work underneath them you still need the boom in the air so if the machine is dead thats a hassle.
"You only get one opportunity to make a solid impression" so the saying goes. JCB has been selling skids steers here since the mid 90's and they largely sucked. I agree Dave that the latest JCB machines are likely much better but they blew it by offering a substandard product for two decades. That is not even taking into account the baggage that JCB generally has regardless of the line of equipment. You don't turn all that around simply by building a better machine, and than wait for the contractors of North America to come running to your door. That is not going to happen overnight. While it may eventually, it will take many years. As to WN and their skid steer, they have some credibility in the industry based on their other products. However if they step on themselves with this first machine roll out, they will have a rough road a head to fix it. A point I have made repeatedly to WN. They have some of the brightest minds in the SSL industry on this team (It is safe to say these guys were responsible for building some of the best selling machines and well known machines in the industry). My experience in the machines which has been limited, is positive. I don't see any dire issues with the machine, which is to say that it will be competent. Certainly there are things to take issue with, but overall it is well done. Right now there are only two wheeled and two tracked machines rated at 75 hp. It is a pretty limited roll out. They are working on the rest of the lineup now. When the entire lineup is available, it will be easier to assess what the feedback will be across the entire line and then gauge how successful the machines will be. Durallymax, the WN machine with its flip up hood design, the cab can pulled up about halfway with the arms down. Hopefully that is enough room to get it running to allow the arms to be brought up under its own power.
Thats the issue though, it limits you. What if you cant lift the boom? This week I had to replace a line on our 226B3 that cracked at the bend (faster to just replace than take in for warranty). It was for the lift cylinders. At this point it wasn't leaking to the point I could not raise the boom, but had the leak been bigger you would be stuck with the boom down yet this line runs underneath the cab. With a cab flipping to the rear its no big deal, but with one flipping to the front you either have to contort yourself around the boom or use another machine to lift the boom which some people don't have. I'm not saying its the end of the world, but I will say I can't see the advantage it has over a rear flipping cab. I understand some designs can't incorporate it as well.
the battery under the cab does sound like a pain... i assume they had a remote place to jump it? do you have any new vw? cuz i hear vw and audi are having big problems with reliability these days. the cab tilts forward on the j c b... but you can do it with the arm down. i will admit getting in and out of the j c b could be awkward at first, but once you get onto it it is much easier than any other machine. i would compare it to getting on and off a lawn mower with a cab. if your lifting your foot above the wheel well you are fighting the system. you just slide in and out and and pull your foot through the pass through. if your j c b machine is loud in the cab, tell j c b. they will fix it. i hear some had a steel hydraulic line rubbing against the cab that caused noise. ours is quiet, and a similar noise level to a newer farm tractor. for me there is not much worse than running a loud machine all day. well yea, the Japanese still make better vehicles, as long as you don't mind an engine with a ticking timing belt inside.
Battery under the cab is nice. How often do you change a battery? Every few years. I'd much rather have it under the cab than blocking an oil filter that I change a couple times per year. Yes they had a remote place. I wire our stuff with remote mounted forklift charging plugs so peopl cant screwup charging anyways. We have a lot of VAG products, I drive a 2000 TDI with 270k, my sister drives an 06 TDI/DSG with 180k, dad drives an 06 A6 quattro, my wife drives a 2010 TDI Cup Edition with 60k and my brother is looking at buying a gas Jetta for himself. These cars have all been far more reliable than our POS detroit stuff. I just sold our 2003 Duramax with 220k on it for 5 grand. I could sell my TDI Jetta for 6 right now. That 03 was just beat down and worn out because they simply dont last. American made vehicles are not built to go 200k. Our 02 Duramax has 180k on it and I think it may struggle to hit 200k before its broke down more than 50% of the time. Our 2011 Duramax has been great. Nearly 100k on it and very few issues, but thats not 200k. I think the newer ones have more potential though. One thing I like that many hate is the hard Euro seats. GM's poofy seats never made it to 100k with skinny people let alone the bigger guys. The newer seats are nice and firm and should last. My Jetta seat after 270k still feels like new. We also have a 2013 Duramax but its only at 20k. In addition to those we have a Suburban with a whopping 130k on it. Its been okay, but nothing spectacular. It's also worth no money right now. What are these "big problems" VW is having with reliability? Failed HPFP's on the 2.0CR? Yeah my wife has one, it hasn't failed but I know its possible. The issue is the CP4 pump, its also used on many other brands and is failing on them as well including the Duramax and the Powerstroke. The issue has been blamed on the poor quality of US fuel which has a scar rating of 520, which happens to be outside the engineering threshold of 460 that the pump is designed for. Water has been the other issue, one speck in the new systems and its a bad day. The issue with the CP4 pump is that when it fails, unlike when a CP3 fails, it grenades and sends shrapnel to all of the injectors which then have to be replaced as well. Bad cam/lifters on the BRM motors? Yeah I replaced the one in my sisters 20k ago due to bad wear and broken lifter. DSG flywheels and mechatronics failures? The DMF failures are somewhat common, not bad to fix, mechatronics failures are less common and while the part is expensive it is easy to replace. Should I even start to list the issues our American vehicles have? How about all the recalls, or the ones they ignore? At the risk of being another annoying person do I dare say anything about bailouts? I'm a GM fan if anything and I feel they should've failed. You don't learn anything by getting a handout. They need to learn to produce vehicles that people want. Timing belts are now ticking time bombs? You know if you dont ever change your oil or fuel filter its bound to have issues too right? Timing belts are a service item, replace them at the recommended time and you wont have issues. Ignore it and it can break and cause a nightmare. On the TDI's it is every 90-100k. I do all of ours here and its not that hard, takes a couple hours and you're on your way.
The CP4 pump is known problem. The Ford 6.7 and the newer Dmax trucks use it. Ford has not been very forgiving on warranty claims. Any reason to deny the claim has been used. The internet is full of scary stories of guys getting billed from 10-12K to replace the fuel system after a failure. GM on the other hand has replaced the CP4 failures as they should.
Just not ignitions.
Don't hang 2 pounds worth of keys on the ignition and you will be just fine.
That didn't help, but GM knew about the problem for 13 years!!!
I haven't heard many stories lately. I myself don't get too worried because our fuel is very high quality, but if filling up at filling stations you end up buying more water than you think sometimes. We have 4 things running CP4 pumps around here now(2 LML's, CR2.0 TDI, ** 8680). Theres a lot of stuff using them, theres not a ton of options for common rail setups. Ford tried Siemens on their 6.4 but that didn't work out so hot for them either. The CP3 supposedly cannot produce the pressures needed anymore. It tops out at 180MPa, CP4 can go to 220MPa IIRC. I'd like to know more about the Scania/Cummins XPI system, they are running the very high pressures as well but use their own setup. Our Fendt uses a Duetz 7.8 motor with a Duetz common rail setup. It uses a low pressure gear driven pump to feed two high pressure pumps driven off the cam than pressurize a common rail like any other CR system, the pumps are the part that are much different. Never understood this concept. WHy people need to have all of the extra keys on there to begin with I guess just doesn't make a lot of sense to me but thats just me. Welcome to America, thats the American way and why I don't care for American vehicles or anything really. Like I always say, nothing new comes out of Detroit, just bean counters. Too many kids in our schools are led to believe Henry Ford was an inventor of the Automobile and/or Assembly line. Henry Ford was a businessman who saw an oppurtunity. Combine the successful innovations of many others into one idea. Mass produced, cheap cars with few options. It was ingenious in its own way (mostly with regards to making money), but thats not what is often taught. Ransom Old's is a man who is very under appreciated IMO. If you look past the surface of auto history he is the man credited with many of the things Ford later used. Olds patented the assembly line, he also introduced things like delivering parts to the work stations, interchangeable parts, and many others that were later used by Ford and others. The one thing Ford did different was put the cars on a moving assembly line. He was the first to do this, but even he gives credit to other industries (mostly the butcher industry) for inspiring him. Old's was the first to really create and mass produced affordable car, but it certainly wasn't as mass produced or as cheap as Ford's Model T. Many historians agree that Olds is really the man who set everything in motion for Detroit, without him and his innovations things would be a lot different. I don't know why so many people think Henry Ford invented the automobile, maybe because generally Americans are considered as "dumb/narrow minded" but enough people at some point in their life do learn about Karl Benz. The more I learn later in my life the more I think our schools history books are a bit slanted. I grew up thinking this was the greatest country in the world that invented everything and made the best stuff. My opinion now is that its the best country at ruining good products due to worrying about money. The problem that the assembly line created is well known today, quality. When my parents were on a tour of a German factory the tour guide pointed this out to the group. He felt that in America the assembly line strips the worker of any responsibility and turns them into nothing more than a robot whereas in many of the factories over there they still relied on more skilled labor than anything. Over there each person has their station and end task, however they have responsibilities, even things as simple as sweeping their own floor. Many of their product improvements come from the workers on the line. They don't "idiot" proof things as much either, they let peoples brains make decisions and if a persons brain isn't good enough then they don't get the job. Their factories are not plastered with warning signs, PPE is optional and up to you to decide what you need. You can choose to not wear safety glasses if you want but if you get something in your eye its your own fault. Then again if you are the person driving the tractor off the line you don't have to wear a vest, goggles and hardhat. Lawyers are the big difference I guess, they don't have the negligence lawsuits we often deal with. If you put your finger in a 400 ton press and it gets cutoff then natural selection is at work because if that is your machine to operate you should know better and if its not your machine you have no business being near it. Now if the machine fails and hurts you then they do compensate you. It's pretty neat, a lot of the factories supply bikes for riding between stations. IIRC Boeing does this in the US as well. Another American "success" story often taught alongside Henry Ford is Harvey Firestone. Contrary to popular belief in America, he really didn't invent much of anything. The ballon tire was his most significant patent. Instead he really became successful by simply being friends with Ford. Firestone also was known for finding ways to make tires cheap in order to increase profits (see a trend?). Remember the Firestone 500? Or maybe the Explorer rollover issues? Both cases were due to tread seperation and in both cases Firestone blamed the consumer and was considered uncooperative with NHTSA in their investigations. In both cases it was later discovered that they were hiding the fact they knew about the issue and were accused of trying to cover it up. The issues with the 500 stemmed from Firestones reluctance to adapt Radial tires. BFG was the only American tire company that was not rallying against Radials at the time and it ended up costing them the company and they later sold out to Michelin. Every tire coming to the US on other cars was a Radial, Michelin was obviously the big player from the start but as the others adapted it overseas it put pressure on the US. The automakers didn't want them either because it meant redesigning suspensions for the stiffer ride. Eventually they gave in though but Firestone didn't want to risk profits so they tried making the tires on machines designed for Bias tires. The 500 was their first tire and suffered a lot of tread sepration issues, after steep fines from the NHTSA(the largest at the time) they recalled over 7 million tires. This along with the bad publicity is primarily what crippled them and let to the Bridgestone buyout. Ironically due to the Explorer fiasco Firestone told Ford they would not enter into any new contracts due to trust issues. I find it ironic because Ford essentially was the reason for Firestones early success. They made up shortly after though. I like my German cars and Michelin tires, maybe I am biased but it seems like the "American Way" is to worry about how big your paycheck will be at the end of the day. That part still baffles me though, they spend all this time reducing costs and making the cars they sell very cheap yet still cannot figure out how to turn a profit. It was a couple years ago but I remember GM's profit that year was around 7-9billion and VW's profit was over 25billion yet the actual volume of sales were much closer than the profit numbers would suggest. I just don't really care for detroit vehicles I guess. My 2000 Jetta is pretty beat up with 270k but its 10 times tighter than my wifes 06 Mustang is with only 130k on it. I don't think those things were tight on the showroom floor, cheap plastic everywhere and squeeks rattles and creeks like you wouldn't believe. Not to mention the overall low quality feel of it. Again maybe I am biased, but the more I look into things the more I find Europe(Primarily Germany) or Asia(Mostly Japan) are at the top of their games and often are the ones producing the most saught after products in terms of quality or innovation. More and more of my toolbox is German tools. Compare a Knipex Cobra to a Channellocks and tell me you would by the Channellocks for any reason other than lower price or being made in USA. Enough of the good equipment on our farm is from Europe(Claas, Fendt, Pottinger). Maybe I'm not patriotic enough, but I simply wont buy a product based on COO. It doesn influence my decision though, Germany has earned my trust for certain products as a COO that will not let me down. Japan has also earned that trust with me for certain things. Made in USA is simply a marketing tool in my mind, used to get a premium price for a sub par product. Anyways how bout them JCB's.
Wow...I'm starting to see how some get really sensitive or should I say defensive when it comes to talking about equipment..its just like truck brand discussions..geesh..Dave, if your happy with your JCB, then great! I have realized though, when discussing these things, you can state your opinion, but its all in how you state it. I joined and use this forum because I need some help advice in looking for a newer used machine. I'd love to get a brand new one, but I'm not in them or use them everyday for a living like all of you. So to me, I value opinions and answers from guys like, in no particular order) KSSS, JNB, Grit, TMC31, CM1995, and Durallymax because they have been the most helpful and posted the most responses so far in answering some of my questions. So far, I've learned there is no perfect or the best..they all have their good and bad..and most importantly, dealership support is the number one thing.
Very well said.
A JCB Skid may be or not be a lot of things....but the one arm is definitely not a gimmick....As mentioned above, roll-out of new product can sometimes be premature, and have its glitches. JCB is not immune to this, nor is Case (Alpha), BC (Telehandlers), Deere (take your pick)....etc. I will echo KSSS's comment from above. There is doubtfully no "best" machine out there for every single application. I do, however, feel that JCB's new product is as good as any, and the single boom takes a back seat to no one when it comes to durability. Our experience anyway....
Nah....painting the Alpha's yellow and cutting off one arm....
This is true....on the early small platform machines, there was a steel hydraulic line that would vibrate against the underside of the cab and cause a hellacious drone....have the dealer check it out, they should be able to solve the issue simply by putting a little more "bend" in the line. No parts necessary. OK, done blowing up the thread all at once now....
You guys do realize that 75% of Dave's motivation here is to get your panties in bunch????? He has said several different times that the JCB is not perfect but is the best for him. So clearly he (i think) he understands why someone else would contest the fact that its not the best thing thats ever rolled off Henry Ford's (HE HE HE!) assembly line....... Dave, Well done!!!!
truth be told, my relationship with the j c b is a love hate relationship (i would say this is almost entirely because of the electric controls [electric controls in general/not just the j c bs]). making the transition from the standard bobcat to the j c b is one of the hardest things i have ever done. it is something i would wish upon no one. there are days when i just want to take those joysticks and break them right off out of frustration because i just simply can't do what i could in the bobcat. some days, particularly if I'm in a hurry, i wonder why i am fighting the system and wish to have the old bobcat back. i think what is the point of all the sweetness of the machine if you can't get nothing done with it! but then i find an old bobcat and drive it around for a while, and am happy for about a half hour. then i quickly realize how sweet the j c b is and i'm ready to go back to it. if i was going to go out an earn a living with a machine, and dig a trench around someones house or something, i would take the standard bobcat in a heartbeat. the bottom line is i am quicker, more efficient, and more accurate with manual controls. if my paycheck depended upon it, my priorities would change. on the farm, all i am interested in is increasing the quality of my life. on the farm you work 24-7 so its not like there is a difference between work and leisure. the goal is to combine the 2. the j c b is successful at removing 1000 hours a year of work from my life. i know as long as I'm in the j c b i pretty much got it made in the shade. the key to driving the j c b is that you must be relaxed. as soon as you get worked up a little, you just start to get mad. it sounds to me like the hay day of diesel is over, why not just get the new mazda 3. same fuel mileage as jetta diesel without the hassle.
You must misunderstand why I buy TDI's, never have I stated it has anything to do with fuel economy and there is no more "hassle" in owning one that any other vehicle. I know about certain models potential flaws just like I know about a lot of the Duramax flaws but couldn't tell you what problems an Egoboost has. Just what I am involved with. I buy TDI's for two reasons, I like German cars, I like the feeling of driving a diesel. Theres something about 330ft-lb(or 236ft-lb stock) coming to life at only 1700RPM and pulling you through all the gears. I hate having to wind the **** out of a gasser to get going. Mazda 3 makes a whopping 150ft-lb at 4000RPM. I like to get where I am going sometime in this decade. If I wanted a gas motor with low torque I'd at least get something like a Jetta SE with the 1.8TSI motor that makes 184ft-lb from 1500-4700rpm. Honestly though if I would be happy with a gas I would buy an Audi. For 2014 they have the TDI in the A6,A7,A8,Q5 and Q7. The A4 will get it next year after the redesign. That's what i'd probably go for, the rest of them are out of my price range being 50k-90k. EPA estimates for the TDI are notoriously low yet overstated for enough other cars. Mazda 3 2.0: 30/41mpg Jetta TDI: 30/42mpg Fuelly is as good of a report as anything as it is from real people. The Mazda 3 has an average economy of less than 32mpg the past 3 years and less than 28mpg for years prior to that. The Jetta TDI has an average of 38.5mpg the past 3 years and on average 38mpg for the years prior to that when the Mazda 3 was produced. The sample group for the TDI numbers dwarfs those for the Mazda 3. Am I saying its cheaper to drive a TDI over a Mazda? No, and to me its an odd comparison anyways. With the $0.50 spread thats common between diesel and gas these days it makes it tough to justify any diesel on fuel economy alone. Fuel costs for 100k assuming $3.50 gas and $4 diesel with 32mpg for Mazda and 38.5mpg for TDI Mazda 3: $10,940 Jetta TDI: $10,390 Not enough to swing my opinion either way and sure not enough to swing the average persons opinion. The "extra" cost of diesel maintenance really comes down to the fuel filters. Everything else is a wash and there is no DEF on the Jetta's. Fuel filters are the killer, I use MANN filters which is the OEM supplier or at least has been in the past. They cost around $20. In 100k you will change them 7-10 times maybe. So add another $300 into that price above (remember your time is worth something, they take about 10 minutes to swap) and you close the gap even more. Then you have initial purchase price. The cheapest TDI (Value edition) starts at $21,300. The cheapest Mazda 3 is down in the 16s and so is the cheapest gas Jetta. One thing the TDI's have though is resale, you get every extra penny you paid initially back when you go to sell them. Still can't find 2000 or newer TDI's with manuals and straight bodys for less than 6k in this area, even if they have 250K plus miles. The TDI's will still be running great over 200k. I would guess a Mazda would too being Japanese but there aren't as many on the road to begin with so its hard to draw a conclusion. In VAG's eyes the hayday is just getting started, Audi want's to offer diesel in everything shortly in the US. They offer the Porsche Cayenne in diesel as well. Their diesel LeMan's race program is pretty impressive and they have won every year since 2006 when they debuted it. Except for 2009 when Peugeot won with their diesel LeMans entry. Dodge is pushing the Eco Diesel 1500 now as well. GM has their diesel cruze and is rumored to be bringing the diesel for the new Canyon/Colorado as well. Apparently somebody is buying them or they wouldn't keep introducing new models. I'm not one of those blinded fanatics that thinks everyone should want to buy diesels, I could care less what others do. I just like driving them because I like the feeling of torque at low RPMs.
The Nissan Titan is getting a Cummins 5.0.:naughty
Yea that has gotten a few Ram/Cummins fans a little worked up. They get the Italian diesel in their half ton and Nissan gets the Cummins in their half ton, seems wrong on several levels.
by hay day of diesel i mean back in the day when diesel was .50 cheaper than gas, the diesel option cost you 2k extra if that in a new machine, and you actually would get over 20 mpg with it. with my experience with diesel pickups, i get between 7-16 mpg. in my opinion, i don't think they are actually selling many of these little diesels, i think they are hoping people will buy them, because they don't have many options what with the gov regulations. at the end of the day most people are not willing to pay extra for an engine that does not get you faster acceleration. I'm aware the old diesel jetta was sweet. reliability is still a concern on the new ones. one of my buddies, a local dealership salesman says whenever they take an audi in on trade it goes directly to the auction; he calls audis 60,000 mile cars. also, if you research vw reliability they have more problems/100 vehicles than most. also, i know 2 people who have a4s one guy with a gti, one with a passat, and they all have had major problems. sure to everyone else none of this info is credible, but to me it is. if I'm buying german I'm getting a 3 series. too bad they got rid of the 335d with 425 lb ft of torque (but i can see why they did), and too bad they never offered a manual, or x drive for that matter that I'm aware of. although an a3 with a diesel would be more tempting than an a4.
An Audi at 60k is just getting nicely broken in. Seems to me with an attitude like that your sales buddy should look for a job with a dealer selling Detroit iron.........I bet the buyers at the auctions love him ......... My Toyota turbo diesel pickup has averaged around 28mpg day-in, day-out in more than 5 years since I got it new (currently has 135k on the clock) and is good for a top speed of around 110+, not bad for something as aerodynamic as the average house brick. That ought to be enough for anyone IMO.
Yair . . . The whole Australian rural/farming/mining industries run on three to four and a half litre diesels in their light vehicles. Most are four cylinder, some five and then there's Toyota who run a horrible V8 in their overpriced Landcruiser . . . dave esterns quoted 7-16 mpg is laughable and completely unacceptable in a work ute (pickup) . . . in my opinion. As I write dieso is $1.69 litre and rising over Easter at local Caltex. I have a three litre Mazda 4x4 and (with a tonneau cover on the trayback) seems to get 11-12 kilometres per litre running light and down to eight on towing . . . this vehicle can be positively dangerous on wet bitumen as without judicious use of throttle it will break the rear end loose in second gear from idle . . . a bit disconcerting on slick roundabouts. I have not checked what it will wind out to but it runs up to 140 kph no worries on overtaking and cruises at just under 2100 rpm at 100 kays . . . as I have said before you do not need a 7.3 to haul your toolbox, ass and lunch pail. Cheers.
if i could buy a compact half ton pickup with a diesel that got good mileage i would. (then i would drive it as my only vehicle. but at this point i have to own a gas guzzling big pickup, along with a beater car so it doesn't cost $100 to go somewhere.) but that is simply not offered in the us market like it is the rest of the world. I'm not confident all these half ton diesels are going to get good mileage. mahindra tried bringing over a compact pickup, but I don't think they tried too hard and it failed; their price point was too high for one thing.
Yair . . . dave esterns . Thanks for comment. Just what small pickups are available in US? Cheers.
Not the Hilux, which is a crying shame IMHO. The Toyota 3.0 D4D diesel engine is not homologated for import into the US. The cynical side of me knows exactly why this is but I don't want to upset too many people so I'll keep that thought to myself.
Please do...... i would like to see something maybe different than my perspective. I think its silly what we do here with all the emissions treatment and after treatment when in Europe they focus on providing more fuel efficient options. Not only is it less expensive to the customer but its also just as good if not better for the environment, and surely better for our natural resources.
Basically if Toyota imported the Diesel Hilux into the US they'd never sell another Tundra or Tacoma ever again - IMHO. And of course thaat would hit their US assembly plant (S Carolina?) pretty hard . If I had $20 for every time someone from the US has told me they'd love to take one back to the US but can't I'd be a rich man. We run a fleet of about 200 of them on the mine where I'm working at the moment. Absolutely bullet-proof.
Dave I don't have time to elaborate right now but if you think VAG products are unreliable you should do some research on the 335d. **** poor reputation. Most dealers send any car that's a few years old away to auction because they don't want them. Doesn't matter what brand it is. Every car breaks. When a German car breaks a lot of people feel like they are expensive to fix because they are but you are getting good parts from Germany versus Chinese stuff that likes to fail when fixing some of the Detroit iron. I never said they were the most reliable cars I just said I like driving them that's why I buy a car because I like it. Reliability matters more with something I need running often like equipment. There the Germans have outdone themselves. Although I give credit to the Americans as our SSLs have been great too. This really is a Dave thread. Next well be critiquing strippers or something.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Jetta I dont think much of any of this car is manufactured in Germany or the US for that matter. I think they are pretty good cars but looks like much of it is made in Mexico.......
I'm aware the 335d is junk, another reason i wouldn't get a diesel car. the 335i on the other hand, is one sweet ride. i agree with your parts analysis. i would argue you could get several hundred thousand miles out of a single set of brake pads.
The majority of the issues I read about them when looking into them were related to that series not just the diesel. I could care less if its made in the US. I am aware that NA Jettas are assembled in Mexico, keyword being assembled. Once you start working on them though you will find that a lot of the parts are stamped Made in Germany. Not to mention the fact they are engineered in Germany which is the key part.
Yes it is, and its causing my eyes to bleed.