Looking at a couple trucks. #1 1992 ford aeromax, n-14 spring ride 9speed, no jakes, set back front axle, says less than 500,000 miles (grain hauler) wants $10k. #2 1996 ltl9000 3406e 20,000 front, 44k rears, hendrickson beam, jakes, 13 speed. Wants $15k. Both are short wheelbase, day cabs. #3 mid 90's international eagle 3406b 13 speed jakes, set back front axle, sleeper road truck, long wheelbase (200"), air ride, I've got a 40 ton grove rt700b crane. weight 66,000lbs. I'm looking at probably 105-110k gross with lowboy and crane (20k each, truck and trailer+ crane)? I probably move it 1-2 times per week average. Less than 50 miles. Have spent $18,000 this year so far having it hauled. I'm rental so I just pass the cost on. It just makes it hard to use the crane on a one day job, if I have to double the price to pay for the hauling, or if I need to use it to cover for one of the truck cranes if they are all tied up. That and sometimes the phone rings and I need it now, and I don't know if I can get the lowboy to haul it there. I currently own a international 8100, m11, 10 speed, and a traveling axle trailer (landoll style). I know its not enough truck. My area is very hilly terrain, lots of short steep up and down hills. I enjoy the guys writing about hills out west and their 7,8, and even 9% grades, (and some of theirs are 6 miles long, which would be different). But the only hill around me that's marked is a mile from my shop. It says 19%, and my shop hill is just as steep (only 1/4-1/2 mile long). There's probably a dozen hills in my area that I drive daily-monthly just as steep, and one I drive a couple times a year that's steeper. (my shop hill I walk up in third gear, its a first gear hill). Also I'm in a big resort/lake area, so think narrow,2 lane no shoulder black top roads. I like the short wheelbase daycabs, but the international eagle (#3) would have room to pull the sleeper and add a pusher,(and I think the set back axle would help getting around). I don't need the pusher to haul the crane, but if I haul for others with the lowboy (that I haven't bought yet), it would help with making weight. I do as much of my own mechanic work as I can, and the m11 in my international is the only electronic controlled motor I own. I'm not a fan of motors that throw codes and won't run. We had wiring issues last year with it. Cummins suggested repair items to fix the problems was over $6,000. I sent the ecm off to get checked (ebay), swapped injectors from hole to hole to test them, and ended up having harness problems from ecm to head. Still $1500. At the $6,000 that cummins wanted me to spend (ecm, injectors, and harness) I was thinking I could find a whole different motor. Its hard to find mechanical motor trucks in decent shape. I am a tall guy (6' 6") so cab room can be a issue. Had a old freight liner classic (road truck we made into a dump), thought visibility was terrible all you could see was hood. I have a old ford 9000 so I know I fit, and visibility in them is great. KW 800 dump we had seemed a little tight to the firewall. Int eagles are ok, my 8100 is a little tight. Never owned or driven a pete. Right now I'm leaning toward #2, its all heavy spec,jakes, the only thing I'm unsure about is the 3406e. truck#1- I've always liked cummins motors, never had a n-14 but have heard good things. For the price difference I could put a 13speed, and add a jake, in #1. on truck #3 I think I'm going to not like the big wheelbase truck. But it is a b series mechanical cat. I'd like to stay under $30,000 for my truck and trailer. Advice?
#1 ford Aero max http://images.craigslist.org/00F0F_6LsHwPphBUu_600x450.jpg #2 ford ltl 9000 http://images.craigslist.org/00j0j_7jfIaF0xmvm_600x450.jpg
I like cummins motors too, but i would definitely go with the heavy spec LT. I don't think the made fully mechanical N-14, 92 might be old enough for an ntc 855 though. I'd go for #2 also, the 3406e has been the most reliable of the 4 trucks i deal with. The N-14 comes a close second and the 2 6nz way back. There gonna be a lot of torque going through the truck at 110k and 10%+ grades the more beef to the axles and frame the better.
It might be too far away for you, but what would you say to this one? I'm kind of a Cummins guy. http://www.truckpaper.com/listings/trucks/for-sale/6066851/1994-ford-ltl9000
What rear end ratio does #2 have? You'll want low for two reasons. First being the low hole in a 13 isn't super low, second is the lower the rear end ratio the less stress you place on the driveline. If any of them are not 4.11 or lower then budget a set of third members. Also, #2 being a 3406E it could be 1,850 torque which should give you the big driveline. I would budget pulling the entire driveline and having it checked out. Those hills even at 100-115k gross are going to put some stress on the driveline. When they go it's expensive and a wild ride! For a pure lowboy truck if you have to re-gear 4.56 is hard to beat and will be good if you ever go heavier. The trucks I built to pull my 13's and dollies were all 4.56 and had auxiliaries too for tight site work. On the road though I never had any issues getting a load moving, even starting on a grade. Not super steep though. We would gross 200-300k regularly. Take a look at the Trans in #2 and see what the tag says, if it's there. It will be something like RTLO18613A or similar. The 18 is the torque rating, next is the series, last two being 13 for the number of forward gears. Junkayrd
Truck #3 front axle to center of trunnion is 220" 425 cat 3406b, rebuilt 13 sp trans+new clutch. Spicer rear ends. 4 bag air suspension. Truck #2's owner says might be 3.90 rears, he's not sure (he also said its full lockers). Other two truck owners have no idea what the rears are. No axle tags on the international. Have to take a jack, release brakes and count driveline revs, on all of them to see rear ratio's? I don't know how else I'll know without tags on the axles.
Yes shimmy1 I like me a cummins too. Love me some dayton's too. I actually own this truck. It's early 80's Cummins big cam III, 350hp, 13 sp spring over walking beam hendrickson, 4.11. I been thinking I could split the flatbed, make it swappable between flatbed and 5th wheel. I just know that whatever configuration its in, I'd need the other one. It was a road truck at one time, the air lines run up the steering column for the lever, but the lever is gone, I think the trailer lines are probably tied up to the frame rail somewhere. I think its also been a dump sometime in its life, I bought it in the winch configuration. I'd hate to give up my mechanical pto winch to run a wet kit. It uses the bottom hole on the trans, I guess I could mount a wet kit on the other hole. It would need rear tires, and a jake. It is one stout old truck. We don't use it that often, but its really nice to have up your sleeve if you need to winch a crane in or out of a hole. Have also set big sewer boxes on the flatbed, for sites the 18 wheelers can't get to. I've parked up to 38,000lb 9'x9' box on it for jobsite travel. This is my current truck and trailer. Its 330hp m11, super 10 (shifts like a old 5+2 straight truck) 3.90. If you slide the axles up on the trailer, its amazing where you can put it with the short wheel base truck. I'd like to sell this truck, and keep the trailer if I can. I really don't use it enough to justify having it, kind of like the winch truck its another tool in the tool bag. I primarily use it moving customers items, or for moving my own forklifts, but I've had my crane hauled, more than I've used this truck.
Also truck #2 is 3406e set at 390hp according to the guy that has it. Would 390 to 425 just be a ecm flash, or would injectors and turbo, or pistons/rods be changed? I would think with the heavy specs it would be big driveline. Truck #3 the spicer rears look light. I've never owned anything but eaton's or rockwells in rears.
Hey I like the old Ford Crane Operator ! Looks like it would have good potential . Wonder if you could run the wet kit pump off the mechanical winch " jack shaft " . Kick the winch in neutral when using the wet kit ? I would finish out the bed however it would best suit your needs . Could set it up like King Of Obsoletes Ford . http://www.kingofobsolete.ca/8V71_DETROIT_DIESEL_TRUCK_ENGINE_WEBPAGE.htm Or what we did with the FWD . http://www.heavytruckforums.com/showthread.php?51-Fwd-Trucks&p=2351&viewfull=1#post2351
if you can get the serial and ar number for the 3406e you should be able to call the local $cat house and ask them to look it up and see if just a reflash is needed,I'm pretty sure that engine can go up to 475hp but would probably be a diff turbo and injectors along with the reflash , that is a good engine I havent had any major problems with them or C-15 same basic engines, If you get the vin to #2 also call the local ford house and they should be able to tell you what the rears are , #3 is definatly a road tractor I would shy away from that one .
Thanks td25c, that old ford was a great deal. I bought it on Iron planet for under $2,000. Drove 3 hrs to kansas city, and drove home on the fuel in the tanks. The first 10 miles was awful getting the flat spots out of the tires, but after the first hour, I was hitting 60 mph. I even found pics of when it came home I really bought it to part it out. I wanted the 13 speed. After driving it home, I couldn't bear to cut it up. Put new (used) steer tires (the rears could use replacing, they've got some weather cracking), and covered the awful orange with white paint. We replaced the angle iron and quarry screen headache rack. I wanted something a little more substantial back there if something ever comes loose winching. That mechanical winch is great too. It has high, low, power in and out and neutral. You can put it in the low side and it just crawls along, with the engine at a idle. I've never 2 parted it. If I cut the bed, I was thinking of leaving 4-5' with the winch and racks, put angles on the frame for the 5th wheel. Leave the mount brackets for the flat bed, just adding a 4" channel to the front of the removable part and the back of what stays on the truck. To swap, pull the 5th wheel bolts, from plate to angles (6 bolts?), pop it off, pick up the bed with the forklift, put in the 6-8 bolts holding the rest of the bed down.
My $.02: #1 is too light, #2 is too short wheelbase. You will for sure want at least 44K rears, and you might consider (if you have the frame length for it) putting in a nice 4 speed brownie for those steep pulls. I have been there, when your heart is pumping fast as you watch the tach needle slowly dropping, and you go for the last hole with a silent prayer it will be enough to put you over the top. Deep reduction is near and dear to me brothers.
You shouldn't give descriptions like that on a Saturday lantraxco. I was laughing reading it, but it was that slightly crazy, sweat on my forehead, flashback laugh. Anyone who's been in that situation never forgets it. My old Grove truck crane (80,000lbs) has a 6-71 detroit with a limited vocabulary, lug is not a word it knows. It does however, know the word hill, and if you even think that word, the crane loses 20mph. The hill I mentioned earlier that's a first gear hill, there's a reason I know its a first gear hill. That crane's got 6.17 rears, and it climbs everything around in 3rd. Except that hill. It's a 3rd gear hill until the last 200', and I grabbed for 1st. Making a downshift when your going that slow and steep is no fun, you better be fast. I also have backed down hills for another run, I've got no pride. I've backed down my shop hill before in a different rig trying to find the right gear. I'm the one that fixes it if I leave a driveline or shatter a axle. My current lowboy hauler has a new pete, 550 cat 4 axle tractor, 3 axle trailer, I'm not sure on rears, but he can really take off up my shop hill (compared to what I do in my truck cranes) My 25 tons have 6.17 rears, 8.3 cummins cta, 50,000lbs, 13 speeds, walk the shop hill in 4th-5th. 35 ton is 6.17,13 speed, 80,000lbs, 230hp detroit,3rd gear. 70 ton crane has 6.07rears, detroit 6v92 350hp. 13 speed, 94,000lbs, and its 4th gear. Jakes help a bunch in it when coming home. Just curious why I should have a longer wheel base, I'm not traveling far enough to worry about ride quality. I've always found that the longer the wheelbase, the harder it is to make it around intersections in town. Am also considering building a gooseneck/axle pin on setup, like this. I think I could get rid of 7-10,000 lbs gross. Plus I wouldn't have to worry about turning around a trailer on dead end, narrow roads. Turn the truck and gooseneck around, spin the trailer like a dolly with the crane, and point the other direction for home. Only downside is I can't haul anything else, but I'm not really in the trucking game.
This truck is over in oklahoma now, but it came from a owner I know, closer to me. It came factory as 12k front 38 rears, I don't know what it is now, might still be that. Its 3406b, 350hp, 15 speed, air ride, with 20k pusher axle. The dirt/hwy outfit that owned it, hauled everything with it. Visibility isn't great from that flc cab. For sale for $12,500 Sold a couple years ago here, (for $8,500, I recognized the truck when it came up on craigslist, remembered the auction): https://www.purplewave.com/auction/141218/item/I2937
I have a friend with a KW that he made his dovetail flatbed removable so he can pull his lowboy. He modified the flatbed adding a fifth wheel pin and fork pockets out the back. He slides the bed on to the KWs fifth wheel with the forklift and then pins the front under the frame with a shackle like attachment. He hauls his D4 show tractor on just the bobtail. To unload he unpins the front and backs up the D4. The fifthwheel pivoys enough to set the beavertail on the ground and he backs off. He does have about 5 feet of permanent deck behind the cab. To remove he unpins the front and pulls the fifth wheel pin and simple lifts it off with a forklift leaving his lowboy tractor.
I'm the same way crane op , buy something & drag it home for a "parts rig " . Next thing I know we are going through the whole rig and end up putting it back to work . Good Lord ! I'm a sucker for old iron & trucks . The PTO on your Ford sounds identical to the one on my FWD . It's got a two speed reversing "Tulsa " brand PTO . I like your bed idea for the Ford . You guy's have very similar land scape to southern Indiana , rolling & hilly terrain and the deeper in the woods the more narrow the gravel roads get . Shorter wheelbase tractor and lowboy is King :thumbsup It's not so much the weight on the truck . It's where ya got to go with it .
I had a Ford LNT9000 semi tractor for 3 years as my main semi tractor. It was a great and simple truck. The only problem is that it had a small engine. I only paid $2,300 for it. Sold it later for $3,300 and now I regret selling it.
I'm the same way Lantraxco . 2 or 3 gear shifts in the cab can sure help keep a feller out of trouble . Could be anything happen , fuel filter a little dirty , clutch decides to start slipping , nasty wash board steep ass gravel hill . The deep low hole gear will get ya back on the green side of the mountain .:thumbsup
Not nearly enough truck for 100,000 pounds in your hills. Not enough engine, not the right transmission. Even with the deep reduction, creeping around is not optimal, and the splits get a little far in the higher gears. Find something with a 13 or 18, and at least 425 hp. JMHO.
#3 looks a tad long even if you pull the sleeper off, though out here it's about what I would want, gives you some leverage to keep the nose down, room for a drop axle, and room for a long load to swing above the frame ahead of the pin. You did say you might haul for hire, yeah? If you can get enough wheelbase to add the drop axle you can move the fifth wheel ahead to balance the weight, and when pulling steep hills you can pop the drop axle up to put more weight on the drivers and keep the steer axle from lifting off. I once drove a really tired old Kenworth that came with the lowboy the boss bought, at the seller's insistence. Came to us with an 8V71 @318 backed by a 5 and 4, which only a couple of us could drive decently, so the boss had me swap in a 12513. I left the brownie in, heheheh, so we had 52 forward gears, it would climb anything with any load, as long as you had all day and a lunch. Splits were about 150 rpm if you were quick, if you weren't quick take two or three or six. YMMV of course.
(8v71) can you hear me yet.
You would have to bring up more Detroit's. This one's in arkansas, its been advertised for a while- I keep trying to avoid looking at it- Detroits follow me home like stray dogs From the ad: 1987 GMC General Truck runs and drives excellent, Body and paint look great. The truck has a Detroit Silver 8v92T 470HP with jakes, Roadranger 13spd , Hendrikson walking beam with 4.11 gears, and has 11r 24.5 tires all in good shape. Wouldn't be afraid to drive it anywhere. Price is FIRM. $8,500 First crane I owned was Detroit. Swore never again First crane down here in Sw missouri 6-71. Swore to repower it, no more Detroits either. 5 years now with a cummins on the floor of my shop (for my repower), still running the Detroit Found a 70 ton crane two years ago, in my price range, 127' main, 60' jib, just what I was looking for, and affordable to get home- 6v92t For some reason this black beast talks to me I feel like Pacino in the godfather- Every time I try to get away- they pull me back in.
For the love of everything holy, who would put Peterbilt wheels on a JIMMY?? That has to be illegal somewhere...... Nice looking truck, BTW.
I have Detroits (3-53 AND 4-53) on three forklifts, these are my best forklifts.
Did you try driving bobtail on this spring suspension? ;-)
I don't know if this can be done on this engine but tailored torque was an option. It means it has torque rise like a Cat or Cummins. I used to drive a newer 6V92 that had DDEC and had quite a fat torque rise. It pulled all the way down to 1400 like any other engine. The other thing to consider is the supply of Detroit mechanics. Around here there weren't any Detroit mechanics or trucks even before the commies banned them a few years back. As the years move forward it will get even worse. If you want to keep this truck a long time this would make me nervous. Maybe it's different in your territory.
I am of the opinion that way too many people worry way too much about horsepower. Find a truck with a good dependable, easy to maintain engine and make sure it has plenty of gears in the transmission for what you want to use it for. With that combination, who cares about HP. Just how fast do you really need to go down the road. Slow and steady gets it done just fine for me. We used to haul our 100,000lb Hitachi excavator all over north and central Texas with an old IHC daycab running a 290 Cummins and 13 speed. Never had a bit of problem going anywhere we wanted to go, just took a little longer to get there. And, there are some pretty big hills in Texas, no matter what most people think. If I were you, I would drop HP way down on the priority list. Dependable engine matched to the proper transmission are more important.
Well said mowingman . I was going to chime in something similar . First heavy wrecker I drove was a 1968 IH single axil with 2 speed rear & 10 speed transmission and 270 Cummins . We drug in everything with that rig and I mean everything . I'm kind of exited about Crane Operators Ford truck project . My favorite style tractor bed has the slight dove tail on the back similar to this IH . http://www.truckpaper.com/listings/trucks/for-sale/7348331/2011-international-paystar-5600i Hey, I found the old Ford's brother over at Adelmans already set up .Low miles http://www.truckpaper.com/listings/trucks/for-sale/4265237/1984-ford-lt9000 Wow ! looks like they dropped the price . Make a nice tractor for someone . http://www.adelmans.com/winch-trucks-1984-ford-l9000-a52413at
parts are impossible to find on that gmc you had better get a couple of parts trucks hoods,doors,interior
Yair . . . Interesting thread. I was about to make a similar comment to mowingman. Highway/freeway hauling has changed but on the byways and country roads even today I'd be quite happy to haul (say) 130,000 with a good "B" model Mack @275hp with a triplex. They did it back then and they would do it now and, as far as I recall they never caused us any grief. Cheers.
And this B71 hauled this D8-14A on a Peerless cutting logging roads years ago in the Blue Mountains NH220 with 5X3with low range and 5:80's. Truck Shop
Sadly you are right. That General is probably a good strong runner that will do a good job, but GM decided that the cab should be outfitted by Chevrolet, Buick, and Oldsmobile. I have driven 3 Generals and the interiors were junk... The heaters, defrosters, A/C, none of it held up. The door window regulators were junk, the door handles were junk... And the front springs were too short for any kind of ride quality. And with the 8V92 they put the shifter so far forward they were a fight to shift. All goes back to dad's favorite quote, "If they build cars or combines... I aint buying it". On the other hand I've broken that rule and done ok.
I hope you get that Mack bought Truck Shop . It's sure got the gears for off road work . My first tractor was a 1973 White 4000 . Had 290 Cummins , 10 speed , & 3.70 ratio 34,000 pound rears on 10.00 22 tires . Not the best set up for a lowboy tractor with no low hole gear . We made it work , only drive train issue we had was the clutch . Did not take long or cost much to swap in a new one . Had to slip it pretty hard taking off on a steep spot or in soft ground . 290 Cummins engine had plenty of power & matched up good with the drive train . Hey ! The old D8 look's like it's waiting for another job .:thumbsup
One of these days I'm going to talk TS into giving me a tour of that Mack and a Few others... Of course I will have to be sworn to secrecy under penalty of death.
You and me both RZucker . Pretty cool trucks & equipment !:thumbsup
Yeah, but lucky me is only 125 or so miles away!
Still on the hunt for a truck. Went and looked at #2 truck from page one, (ford ltl9000, 20k front 44,00rears 13 sp cat,3406e), it wasn't near the truck it looked like in the pictures. 2" of caked on dirt and oil on top of the front axle, has a serious oil leak from right behind the fan (looks like its coming from the gear drive cover, can see bright clean spot behind fan, then oil all down the front cover). 390hp, 4.17 rears. Paint job is worse than the painting I do (runs everywhere, not just one or two, bad tape job, bad prep, whole strips of white behind brackets). Interior partially dismantled. Fiberglass fix on the hood was still sticky (he was at least trying). Rear tires were caps that were all separating badly, and he said he hauled a excavator with it that morning (no wonder we see caps on the road). It wasn't a 15,000 truck, it was more like a $5-7,000 truck. I didn't want to even insult him with a offer. Search goes on: Called about this one Friday:$19,000 https://fayar.craigslist.org/hvo/5759385424.html 2001 Mack CH 613 Motor 427 with 900,000 miles Transmission 10 speed Rear Ratio 417 Air Ride All New Brakes TIRES 2 New front steers REAR TIRES 4 New caps 4 50% virgin tires Called him and found out its only 12,000 lbs front and 38,000 rears, they are mack top loader rears, maybe a cut-off for more cap? Does have jakes, says they're not hooked up. 24.5 rubber. It is a eaton trans, so could swap to 13/15sp by shortening driveline. Room for a pusher. Was hauling feed trailer. Like the looks of this http://www.truckpaper.com/listings/trucks/for-sale/6867673/1996-mack-cl713 Unfortunately its in north carolina, I'm not going that far for a truck.
I've started looking a little more at trucks with pusher's. Make's it easier in missouri to make axle weight, and permits are a little cheaper. Couple more that are within 500 miles, I really like this western star, manual cummins motor too. Baskin (the dealer) also has lots of heavy spec tandems on their yard, might be worth a trip. http://www.truckpaper.com/listings/trucks/for-sale/7235935/1989-western-star-4964ex Ad for this one says 325hp, but the tag in the pics says 425 hp. You would think you'd throw the trash out of the cab, before taking pictures wouldn't you? http://www.truckpaper.com/listings/trucks/for-sale/7043931/1977-ford-l9000
Does Missouri mainly go by axle weights? I know different states go by different weight laws, in Oklahoma wheelbase makes a big difference because of the bridge formula they use. From the 80's to about 1995 I could bridge (with weight permits) about a 75,000 pound hoe. We had a Koehring that we could take the counterweights and bucket off of and get right at 75,000. Sold it and bought a new Case that weighed 74-75,000. That was with our '80 model Mack R600 and 3 axle folding neck lowboy. I'd have to measure it, can't remember the wheelbase but pretty sure it's under 220". It's a tandem axle winch tractor. All of a sudden, our weight laws changed and I couldn't permit it anymore. Hired it hauled a few times, bootlegged it a few... Then in 2000, I bought a 1991 Pete 379 extended hood. 287" wheelbase. With it, I could permit 117,000 again. It has a 3406b, 15 speed, 3.70 rears on air leaf suspension. The 3406 had been turned up when I bought it, I don't know how much... But I've out pulled newer supposed 550 Cats with it. the jump in wheelbase took some getting used to, but really isn't that bad. I have a tandem lowboy we use most of the time that's just about 38' long, and I've never really had trouble getting around with it even in town. I've pulled a couple of long triple axle detatch lowboys, and you have to plan some turns with them, but it is what it is.
It's deceiving, because of the sleeper and fuel tank on my 379, but it actually measures about 3" longer wheelbase than the 378 on my trailer.
This is the Koehring. It was right at 115,000 by itself in this pic. this is the only time we hauled it in one piece...
Be VERY CAREFULL of that Baskin Truck Sales place. They have a horrible reputation that has been reported all over the internet. It seems they are not afraid to misrepresent the condition of their trucks, to make a sale. If you see one there you are interested in, you had better look it over in person, and take it to a reputable, independent mechanic for inspection, before buying.
What Mowingman said... They are less than 100 miles from here but the locals who know trucks don't have much nice to say about Baskin.
Thanks mowingman and scottar, its nice to hear from someone that knows them, good or bad. Handpipeline- Thats a pretty good load on that old mack. They are one tough truck. Not real fast, but torque up the wazoo. As far as permits, missouri uses a formula that includes length and gross, and it depends how many axles you have. Basically 20,000 per axle, less if your under 51' (special chart for that). I could gross on a 5 axle permit, but you would be over 20,000 per axle on the trailer. My current hauler's permit is for 105,000 gross. 1-2-3 6 axle configuration. He doesn't use the 4th (pusher) axle on the tractor. From the book: 5-Axle Configurations Single-Tandem-Tandem (1-2-2) Single-Tandem-Spread (1-2-2) Minimum distance between the centers of the first and last axles is fifty-one feet (51'). Maximum gross weight allowed on a 5-axle configuration is one hundred four thousand (104,000) pounds. 6-Axle Configurations Single-Tandem-Triple (1-2-3) Single-Triple-Tandem (1-3-2) Minimum distance between the centers of the first and last axle is fifty-one feet (51'). Maximum gross weight allowed on a 6-axle configuration is one hundred twenty thousand pounds (120,000). Configuration lengths from forty-three feet (43’) up to fifty-one feet (51’) will be allowed provided that the maximum gross weight on these configurations does not exceed one hundred twelve thousand pounds (112,000). When the configuration length is less than fifty-one feet (51’), the maximum gross weight on any tandem axle grouping shall be forty thousand pounds (40,000) and the maximum gross weight on any tridem axle grouping shall be sixty thousand pounds (60,000). 7-Axle Configurations Single-Triple-Triple (1-3-3) (Routine Configuration) Single-Tandem-Quad (1-2-4) (Alternative Configuration) 29 Single-Tandem-Triple-Single (1-2-3-1) Single-Triple-Tandem-Single (1-3-2-1) Single-Tandem-Tandem-Tandem (1-2-2-2) Minimum distance between the centers of the first and last axles is fifty-five feet (55') for the routine configuration, seventy-five feet (75') for the alternative configuration, and sixty-nine feet (69') for all other configurations. The following axle group spacing limitation will apply to all of the configurations as shown above, but will not apply to the steering axle. A minimum distance of fourteen feet (14') shall be required between centers of adjacent axles on consecutive tandem, triple, and quad axle groupings and on single axles used in combination with these groupings. Maximum gross weight allowed on a 7-axle configuration is one hundred thirty thousand (130,000) pounds for the alternative configuration, one hundred thirty-two thousand (132,000) pounds for the routine configuration, one hundred thirty-eight thousand (138,000) pounds for the 1-2-3-1 and 1-3-2-1 configurations, and one hundred fifty thousand (150,000) pounds for the 1-2-2-2 configuration .
Brought this home yesterday. Its not exactly what I wanted, but it was a lot of what I wanted, and honestly I was sick of looking. We'll end up changing what we need to, to make work for us. 1998 Western Star. Only 12,000 front , 40,000 rears. I've already looked at some 16-20,000 fronts, appears 2,500-3,500 from the junkyard for a cutoff. 12.7 Detroit 60 series, 475 hp, Jakes. Has a brand new 13 speed/clutch (rtlo 16xxx series). Brand new air compressor. Some new suspension parts. Pretty nice wheelbase (enough room to add pusher if I need to), turns pretty short. I can fit in the cab. Hendrickson 4 bag, air rear, rides nice. Had to replace a oil line and a air compressor line before we drove home, and I've got a list of about 15 little things that need fixed, but the main rig ran home great, we'll see what its like with a load. I'm not much on the super tall stacks, or the chrome wing on the roof, maybe they'll grow on me.
Nice looking rig with good specs. I think you have a winner there.
I think it'll be a good looking star car without the wing or school bus mirrors. If you're gonna be on gravel roads a lot, half fenders will go a long ways towards keeping down the number of rocks chucked at the truck. I know a grain hauler that loves 60 series, so hopefully you have good luck.
Nice looking truck Crane Op , I like it ! I'm the same way about the tall stacks , generally cut them off just above the cab . Other wise only thing they are good for is catching a low hanging phone line or tree limb .
So the truck runs pretty good. Some guys on here helped me get the jakes sorted out (they work really good ). We've got the oil leaks pretty well tamed (still a small leak on the rear of the block (cam cover, or one of the sensors on the drivers side, not bad but needs fixed). The new valve cover gaskets stopped most of the leaking, it had oil stuck all the way back on the rear axles, it had been leaking a while. Here's the whole setup: I'm grossing around 102-104,000 (nobody will let me on their scale loaded, just going by factory specs on the crane + empty weight) Detroit 500 hp (found the right tag finally). rto 13 speed .73 top gear. 3.73 rears. 24.5 lo-pro tires (285/ something /24.5) Biggest issue: it's not geared low enough. The Detroit pulls like a train, once I get going, but getting the whole thing started in my shop yard, if I park off on the side (hill) involves a little slippage and throttle. If I had to get it going on a steep spot in the area, I'm not sure its going to do it. I know I won't get it going in a really steep spot, but I've had to stop for traffic before at my yard driveway, and I don't think it would get going there, and I know, I'm going to end up in a spot where I need to. It's got more top end than I really need. It would probably run 85 mph bobtailing, but if it would do 65-70 empty would be enough for me. Loaded 60 would be enough. Options as I see it: transmission, rear gear ratio's, or a aux. #1: A 15 or 18 speed gets you a 13.31 or 14.4 ratio in the 1st hole, but I don't think that's a big change over the 12.31 my 13sp gives me. The shifts are much closer in the low half of the 15 and 18 both which would be nice, but not necessary. A 8ll gives a 14.56, a 9ll gives a 26.08 in LL1 (that would probably do it ) But the trans I've got now is a brand new reman., was just put in when I bought it. #2 Aux: https://oklahomacity.craigslist.org/hvo/5851675091.html Its a 4 speed within driving distance to me. I don't know what the ratio's would be. Don't know if it would handle the torque of the detroit. It would involve making mounts, shift lever (or air shift), drivelines etc. Not impossible, but quite a bit of work. It would open up a lot of gears. What are the typical ratios in a brownie 4 speed ? double under, under, direct and overdrive? Not sure I want to fool with both levers in the cab, let alone if I have another driver who's never seen such a thing. #3 A : Swap diff's: these are even closer to me: https://fayar.craigslist.org/hvo/5910168741.html I don't know if 4.10 would be enough, or if these even fit my housings. I'm a RD20145 housing (rockwell) so they may be worth a look. #3 B: Just change my gearset. Pick out what I want, have the gearshop swap them and replace any bearings/ etc, and run with it. Problem is probably too many choices, 4.10, 4.33, 4.56, 4.63, 4.88, 5.29 (One grove crane of mine has has sqhd's at a 6.17, they can just crawl , and that rocks on a jobsite) Junkyard suggested 4.56 and that's probably not a bad balance between road speed empty and a low hole - getting rolling. I realize I could also go to two speed, double -locker rear ends, but I'm trying to stay somewhat in a budget. I hate to swap transmissions with having a brand new reman in it ( I do have a used 15 speed (RTO) on the shop floor, but its a unknown condition wise). I'm leaning toward the gear swap or full differential swap, and re using my axle housings, axles, etc. Would probably take the least amount of time, compared with mounting a aux. Opinions?
I would say build it as if you had bought it new that way. Since you are not willing to swap the transmission, that means change axle ratios. I don't think much of the Brownie. I don't think the 4.10s really go far enough. It does not sound like you have full lockers right now. This could be the opportunity to change that. I don't know your territory but it would seem to me to err on the side of short gearing. How far do you have to go, how often does the rig go fast?
Depending on the model of 15 spd you have, in first gear the deep reduction would run from 10.93 to 13.31. All models in 1st under are 7.83 for 15 spd. Combine that transmission with a final drive gear ratio of 4.33 it will give you some real good bottom pulling power and still have road speed with the .73 in top gear. Personally I would use a 4.33 final. A typical on off road brownie ratio would be. deep under-2.38 under- 1.21 direct- 1.00 over- 0.80 And final drive ratio's typically are 5.29 Truck Shop
Having run many combinations I will throw my .02 in. This is based on 10-12 years under 7-13 axle rigs. I ran tall rubber and 4.56 rears, some 4 speed aux and some 2 speed. For the setup you have I think 4.56's are perfect. Auxiliary is nice but expensive to install correctly and make darn sure it's a 1241C or the later version APO1750-4. If it's the earlier 1241C you need to make sure it has the newer input shaft and yoke or you will risk shearing it off due to excessive input torque. I don't know what size rubber you have out back, if it's low pro 22.5 you could do 4.33 and end up where I was with tall and 4.56. There's a chart somewhere for the 1750-4 that shows allowable input torque for a given gross weight. You'd most likely be ok but again installing an aux correctly is a job, driveline angles, lengths, brackets etc. Pulling my 13 axle with that gear I seldom needed to drop to my first underdrive gear to get rolling. With 3.70's that pinion is sure seeing some stress! Junkyard
I run a crane rental outfit. Most / all trips for my business will be within a hour/ 50 miles of the shop. I live in a area of lots of short steep hills. If I deliver the crane to a jobsite, I may just travel back empty to the shop, or leave trailer there too, and bobtail home. Shop driveway, to my nearest highway either direction, entails a 1/4 mile run of a 12-14% grade one direction, a shorter but steeper little section going the other direction. That is all paved. Currently its a not low gear, but 1st or 2nd gear event. Spend most of my time when local in that 6,7,8 range. I have a 4 lane divided highway that I run to two different towns, but on that run I don't think I've ever gotten to the highest gear when loaded. The 13 speed gives a lot closer splits up in the high side, but actually the hills here are steep enough that I find myself rarely spliting. If I need to shift, I need more than a split, I'm usually dropping two or three gears. I'm running low pro 24.5 tires, so no going to shorter tires for ratio. I suppose if I go to 4.88 and its too low, I could go up to 11r24.5 tires to get back some road speed. I'm not running any long interstate runs currently. I suppose if things get slow, I could try to get some hauling work, but I'm not really interested in doing that. I bought the rig to move my crane. Not everyone else's stuff. Probably the transmission that I think shifts the best for my area is in my grove tms 300. It's only a 6-71 detroit (230hp), at almost 80,000lbs. It has a rt 613 with 6.17 rears (11.00r20rubber). That's a 18.00 first gear. You can slide it in and with that fast revving detroit you can just nail through the first three gears to get going. All it's shifts are under a 30% step. Its getting a repower (eventually), but that's just so it would hold the hills better, I don't need more road speed in it. My 70 ton crane is a 6v92 (350hp) pushing a 13 speed at 94,000lbs, 6.07 rear ratio with 14.00r20's. First gear in it is a little high crawling around on a jobsite with jib on, but it gets down the road pretty good. A rt 613 wouldn't handle a 500hp 60 series, but it appears that the closest thing to it would be a 15 speed- which is what I have laying on my shop floor. A 18 speed would give me even closer shifts, but I'm wondering if they would be too close to split, but too far away to skip. Been playing around with this calculator this afternoon. http://spicerparts.com/calculators/transmission-ratio-rpm-calculator A 4.88 would still get a top speed of 72mph all out, which would keep me up in the slow lane on the interstate. Current setup shows over 90 mph topped out, I certainly don't need that. Even if I change transmissions, I'll need to change rear ratio's. I'm thinking 4.56, or 4.88, first. If I'm still not happy, then switch to the 15 speed. If the ratio is too slow, I could always go to taller rubber to gain back a little. I think last resort will be the aux.
Sure would be handy if you could just get buy swapping one component . Two speed rears might be the way to go ? I would give these cats a shout & see what they have in inventory & cost on different combinations , transmission , or complete " cut off " . http://www.adelmans.com/truck-parts
I don't know how others feel about this but I have never been afraid to spin a diesel engine fast, generally. So as long as you are not going to be a rolling roadblock, if the 4.88 works I would go for it or even something lower. In this territory, 65 mph is the absolute max I ever go in a car or truck. And most time is spent much slower than that. So I would gear it to be near the top end of the engine revs at 65 mph, and invest in some ear plugs for long deadheads. Seldom is it said by anybody that their lowest gear is too low. As well as getting over humps and such, it would make maneuvering trailers and such that much easier, also.
Thought I'd give a little update. Guy I know has a set of used 4:11 (same housings as mine), in a full cut-off, suspension, brakes, housings and axles. $1500, no core. I didn't think that would be low enough, because at 3.73, I didn't think it would be enough of a difference. He said "before you pull them, give them a spin and see what ratio you have now"........ tag says 3.73, giving a spin comes up at 3.42 (approx). No wonder I'm having a little trouble getting going. We're going to put in the 4:11, and see what we think. Reman with warranty, was going to run around $3,500-4,000 exchange (core), and I didn't want to risk being wrong (4.56,or 4:88,or 5:26 etc). Once I ordered the reman's, they would be mine. If we like the 4:11, I can sell my old diff's, plus I'll have the extra housings and axles, etc. If I still want lower, I can always get the reman's. I'm so glad he mentioned giving the axles a spin, before I had gone and bought reman's. I had found the tag on the front axle and thought I knew what I had:Banghead. Sometime they either swapped diff's, trying to get better milage, or they trashed a housing, and put their diffs in the used/new housing, and didn't knock the tag off/ or re-label it. Thanks for all the advice guys, I really appreciate it. The money always spends way easier than I can make it.
Hmmmm... did you try front and rear? You *may* have two different ratios, LOL. With the divider you get the average between the two.....
If it rolls free with the interlock in it has the same ratios front and rear, if it is fighting itself they ain't, don't ask me how I know The lowboy I drive has 4.11 rears with an 18 speed and 550 cat and 11r24.5 rubber. It does what we need in the woods around here where 15% grades are found, I don't get over 120,000 much, I think you will probably like the 4.11s with low pro tires, you have a good plan it sounds like.
I think you will find the 4.11's will work just fine. 3.42 to 4.11 is a big jump. Truck Shop
Another update. Purchased the used 4.11's. Installed and went for trip loaded up with the crane today. Love the change. Nice take off speed, loaded, and crawling around. Running about 60-65 in the top gear (not full rpm, but around 1400 or so). Think I hit a pretty good spot. If I went to 4.56, I would need tall rubber like junkyard had. Only one problem. The computer cuts out the top gear when getting a run downhill- speedometer is showing 85+ mph, do I need a recalibration on the computer for my new rears? It isn't like the old set ups where you changed the little gear output on the transmission?
You will have to recalibrate the computer as well as the speedometer. The speedometer is pretty simple, just call the dealer and give them the specs, gear ratio, tire size and transmission and they can tell you which switches to flip on the back of the speedometer. If you know of someone that has a data reader or scan tool that is compatible with the series 60, the ratios and specs can be changed rather simply. When I repowered our 83 Kenworth with a series 60 I purchased a data reader off ebay, made life much simpler than fooling with a dealer. You should be very happy with your new Detroit, ours has given us about 800,000 miles of trouble free service. We do everything with it. Lowboy, dump truck,log truck. It has a RTLO 16713A trans,. two speed eaton rearends with 4:33 ratio. Really would have liked to use an an 18B trans, but the 13 has been trouble free.
Sounds like you nailed it, I was kind of curious so thanks for the update!
lg junior- I'm curious what reader/ data tool you got, also curious on your kenworth repower. I've got a 6-71 in a crane that someday I will get around to repowering. I've planned on manual big cam cummins, but I've just got this one 60 series, and like it, and have debated finding one to put in the crane. I'm somewhat anti- computer, but if a guy had his own code reader, that would make it easier to troubleshoot. I've seen a few older mid-late 90's trucks lately for $4-6,000 with trashed cabs/ worn out, but with good 60 series motors. I could purchase one, then I'd have everything electronics, ecm, mounts, brackets, throttle pedal, etc.
Wouldn't you repower a 6-71 with a cummins B or C? I think a big cam cummins is way overkill.
The crane he's talking about weighs 80k. I think a series 60 or big cam would be quite Sufficient. Lol Our crane(same model) with the ntc350 has enough power but it's not to much by any stretch.
My data reader is a Pro-Link 9000, I believe it's made by Micro Processor Systems Inc. You can put different cartridges in for different motors and different cables to plug into your data port. When I got mine I had to pick up the cartridge and correct cord off Ebay. When I repowered the Kenworth I got the engine out of a wrecked Kenworth. The dealer that had it let us take all the wiring and anything that was related to the installation. What I have found is that the DDEC 3 motors are easier to install (less wires than DDEC 2). As for replacing 6-71, Detroit built a Series 50 that is almost identical to the Series 60 only in a 4 cylinder configuration. Most that I have seen are around 300 horsepower. They were quite popular in Freightliner FL102 model trucks. If size is not an issue a lot of the Series 60 truck motors were available with pretty low horsepower ratings, down in the 300-350 hp range. The 11.1 liter series 60 truck motors are the same outer dimensions and were usually down in the 300 hp range as well. I used two of them for repowers in older trucks as well. I was skeptical of the whole computer thing when I did the first truck but it was the best move I ever made. So far I've repowered 4 and bought one that was a factory install. Never have I had a computer problem. After the first install the wife asked why they were'nt delivering as much fuel to the shop, that has been a huge benefit.
Something like this : http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nexiq-Pro-L...:g:d2EAAOSw241Ygbxa&item=282332091015&vxp=mtr Or like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nexiq-Pro-L...:g:FrwAAOSwUEVYDM0H&item=232211629050&vxp=mtr Are some read only? Only pull up active codes? or are they all capable of changing parameters? As far as the hp I'm looking for 350-450hp with jakes, I'll be upgrading the transmission to a 15speed, and the driveline is already heavy. Room is a issue with the small crane engine compartment, plus tall and narrow frame rails. I know big cams will fit- I think the detroit is physically smaller, the only unhandy things are needing dual throttle controls (could mount elect pedal in engine compartment and push it how the throttles work now:air cyl and manual linkage), air to air intercooler- not much room for extra piping with the narrow compartment (big cam is air to water/ easier). Also will need front driveshaft to run hyd pumps, no matter what I install. Installing the detroit just means a extra layer of wiring on top of the mounting/ room issues. If I do a big cam, all I need is a fuel solenoid wire, and it should run. Thanks Oarwhat_ The crane isn't a RT model, its a on the road truck crane. As knepptune says- it weighs right at 80,000, and I live in a real hilly area. The cranes are woefully underpowered for everyday travel. The detroit is enough for the hyd pumps on jobsite, and is easy on fuel, but 230hp means I spend a lot of time in 3rd gear- in a 13 speed- with 6.17 rears-- meaning a bicyclist can give me a run for my money on a hill. The crane compares in size to newer 50-60ton cranes, that are now factory with 400hp.
The first reader is the one that I have. Very easy to use. You can change a lot of things with it but horsepower is'nt one that you can do. The dual throttle you describe should work fine. As for driving off the front of the crank, the Series 60 crank is the same size front as it is back. I don't remember but I think it has six bolts. Should be able to drive anything off the front. On one of my installs I had no side clearance for the cooler piping so I found a charge air cooler from a Mack where both pipes went over the top of the radiator. I have had several people wanting to do away with the charge air cooler in tight applications but have not found an economical alterative. One other clearance issue in a truck is the head to the fire wall on the driverside which shouldn't be a problem in your case. There are also front and rear sump oil pans available if there are clearance issues on the bottom. Hope this helps. One good thing is you have a motor handy to take measurement from. Also if you need to cut wires, stay away from butt connectors. Solder and shrink tube are easy and will save you much grief.
I get it now. It sounds like your way under powered but that's how they did it years ago. Like the old tandem dumps had 220 Cummins and 230 Mack motors. They did the job but were slow.