First of all thanks in advance for your answers, you guys are super helpful. I have a 1994 f700 5.9 cummins and allison automatic, that have the 6 spoke dayton wheels on the front, that I plan on keeping this truck. I also purchased a 1993 F700 with a 5.9 cummins and a 6 speed spicer, It has the Budd wheels on the front with newer tires on it. Will it be worth the swap or just swap the tires onto the daytons? And will the hubs all interchange? But the 1993 has dayton style wheels on the rear [but it only has the 5 spoke verson of the daytons] They are both air brake trucks. And last but not the least what would be the procedure for swapping it over, torque specs also. Thank you very much and have a great holiday.
Welcome to the HEF. Great to have you. Them’s some cool Rigs. Are these just toys for rolling coal and hitting the red clay? With them Georgia Bois, down in Jones County? Or, legit work trucks?
I don’t like to get caught up in the Georgia argument about Ford or Chevy, just as long as it’s tall and it’s heavy. Knowwhatimsayin? I should move to Georgia, after watching this documentary.
Work truck, hauling gravel and junk to the dump and scrap yards. Thank you for the reply.
The 1994 is a dump bed.
I hate Dayton wheels, for whatever that's worth. Some of the old timers liked them; you never have to beat a wheel off the hub, but I get so tired of the drama keeping the Daytons tight and straight.
Nah, you have plenty of that in Alaska, I was there just long enough to see that. Just not so much with T shirts and mud, but same idea . . .
Unless you plan to use the truck a lot, ie frequent tire changes, I'd just keep the Daytons. Sounds like a lot of messing around to swap everything for not a lot of gain. While I do prefer the Budd wheels, the Daytons are much easier to change on the side of the road with normal tools and are arguably stronger in rough service. If you mount the new tires, get everything straight, tight and torqued properly they shouldn't give you any trouble.
Minnesota Mags. Worked with a guy that had a upper & lower partial, completely removed the nuts holding cleats, one popped out straight in the mouth.
I agree with MG84, Dayton wheels can be a PITA, but I wouldn't go through the trouble of swapping just to get Budd wheels. After all, how often does one have to pull wheels off of a truck? Kinda not worth the trouble for the occasional benefit you'll get.
Yeah, that's a really bad idea to completely remove the nuts.
2 air hoses, 1 drag link end, and 8 nuts, and the axle is out. Just swap the whole axle
Don't forget to replace the U-bolts.
Even easier, you can torch the old ones off then.
That was my first thought too, but we don't know if the axles are both the same weight rating, same steering components, different size brakes, etc. These trucks can be a real smorgasbord of parts, hence probably not worth the trouble. Having owned a few of these old Ford and Chevy medium duties through the years, the F700 (or whatever) badge on the side is only a mere suggestion to what the specs could be. IIRC in those years an F700 could have a GVWR anywhere from 25000 to 32000lbs. I've got a C60 here at the farm that has a GVWR of 24000 but according to the build sheet has a 9K front, 23K rear, springs to match, double frame, hydraulic ram assist steering, basically a 32000lb truck, but came with 900-20 tires so it could be registered under 26K.
I've got both and budds can rust on so badly the tires need to be taken off so the rims can be touched off been there done that. If you change them often enough budds do come off nicer but if left on for years I'll take daytons hands down have never had to torch a Dayton rim off but have torched a dozen budds off over the years. As for switching axles just to get budds I wouldn't but that's me, you tend to ruin steering joints need new u bolts and nuts, how worn are the king pins and bushings and from that day on parts can't be matched with the truck serial number which makes things years down the road a huge headache, been there and done that and don't forget if you switch axles might need to align the truck so it drives straight down the road and doesn't eat steer tires for breakfast.
That was where I was headed. * But--Before anyone gets excided about swapping axles on any truck and doesn't matter the brand, measure the distance between center of springs mounted on axle. And to remove a tie rod end or draglink, back the nut off and smuck the side of steering arm boss with 5 lb hammer and the end will fall right out.-----dabblers.
You couldn't give me a truck with budds if I had to use it any amout. I had many trucks with Dayton cast spoke wheels. Newest truck has Hub Pilot wheels. A lot easier to change tires than Budd and no problem getting them to run straight vs spoke wheels although spoke wheels can be put on straight and kept that way with a little work. FWD
I don't get all the hate for the Budds. I love the fact I can change the outer tire with just a 2x6 for a jack. Yea, it's a pita when the outer nut seizes on the inner but a little anti seize on assembly and that doesn't happen.
I am not a pro…(just a dirt digger who happens to use some trucks). Thanks to the top advice of this forum (Truck shop & others). I have learned to successfully mount and ‘true’ up (mostly) Dayton’s on our 1989 IHI tandem dump. Seems like a robust setup to me…as others note keep nuts on till tapping out wedge’s….they make a musical sound as they release!
I hate spoke wheels. Such a pulling the hub just to do brakes. Glad they're obsolete now.
I suppose owning one with Minnesota Mags is one thing, constantly working around them is another. Heavy and time consuming.
Exactly. That's what I meant when I replied "how often does one have to remove wheels, not that often", concerning an owner/operator. However, if you have to work on them every day, as a wrench bender, then there's no debate.
Been a while since I worked on logging gear but I seem to recall a lot of the old trailers would go through a set of shoes every season or 2.
Looks like I will just keep the daytons and just swap the tires, thank all of you for this helpful information.
Plus the axle ratings are different on both trucks.
The worst for budd wheels are farm trucks and trailers where the wheels may only come off every 20 or 30 years and the outer nuts are seized to the inners. The hub pilot were a lot better but the wheels and outboard drums seize to the hub and with aluminum hubs, the pilot flange for the drum corrodes away. Same for the Budd hubs. And some farm trucks being 40 years old, wheel end parts can be hard to find
Before my father had one of these, . I remember him using a sheet of steel, and some oil to slide the wheel off.
I'm just one of those guys who works on my own stuff as needed, so I'm not doing it often like yall, but I always thought the Daytons were pretty easy to do brakes on. Pull the axle shaft, slide dolly under, take the spindle nut off, and wheel the whole assembly away. No 1" impact/torch/cheater bar and no heavy lifting. I've even done the same on some of my trucks with Budd wheels if they haven't been off in a long time and the lugs look like they'll put up a fight.
Oh and the older aluminum budds with the thimble. They break when you took them off, then they would break when you put them on. Good times
Wow--you guys never worked fleet or dealer, in my good days I would change out four corners of brakes in one hour. You can't bid a customer brake job with outboard drums by pulling hubs. Inboard it's a different story you have no choice. But Budd wheel ends are just not the horror that's being portrayed. And most trailer axles in later years used butterfly wheel studs, If one was bad I've even changed those with shoes installed. It's all about constantly working on trucks and trailers for a living. I can remember days where I would install a minimum of 20 shoes and 10 drums. I think the most I ran through in a 8 days was a pallet of 48 shoes on trailers that were being traded off, had to have 50% or better lining, all outboard hub pilot. * Those Dayton's are ancient/obsolete items. Stud Pilots are in the same category but could come either inboard or outboard, I sure as hell wouldn't pull the entire hub unless the seal was leaking. I used a drum caddy I built, probably handled a couple thousand drums in it's time. It was dual purpose with a attachment I built to handle all the air disc hubs I had to either reseal or change rotors--which was a really stupid engineering feat from the stand point of outboard was 15 minutes and a rotor/seal change was 1.1 hours for me--book time is 2.3. A complete all four drive axle corners with rotor/seal change and pads--the fastest I've ever done was 4 hours flat and that was just before I retired at 66 years old---Gee I wonder how fast I could have done it at 40. *
I need to edit that-----not a 8 days----{I think the most I ran through in 8 Hours}.