hello, I collected on a debt for a clearing job when I was home last time, I got a 99 f250 7.3 auto, cab and a half pickup for about $2500 worth of hoe work , the body is decent and its only showing 125K miles , guy says it wont run and he didn't want to spend any money to fix it, he has a new KingRanch in the garage, and is retired, about a year ago it just died he said. So, I'm thinkin 2 hot batteries and a cam sensor ,,I'm rolling, right. WRONG!!! oils black, waters green, spins over good , no funny noises, its dry from sitting but has compression, so I dump a little M-M Oil down its throat ,nuthin. So, I park my 99 f-450 beside it and swap each piece out 1 at a time, each time the 450 cranks the 250 doesn't, cam sensor, IPC switch, injector driver, valve in bottom of highpressure oil pump, check fuel pressure , oil pressure, plug in genesis, no codes ,do buzz test, check fuses , swapped all the relays, get mad squirt in a little either , nuthin. I have 3 other 7.3 powerstrokes , 2 with over 400K MILES and 1 with over 200k , is there something I have missed, the wireing harness appears to be intact, unhooked 1 bank at a time, 1 injector at a time all the glow plugs, blocked off the high pressure oil to 1 side then the other, it wont even hit, not a peep, any ideas , bring it back!!
IDM? whats compression like? When you turn it over can you see oil spurt from the injector spill ports? You might have to crank the **** out of it to re prime the HP oil galleys and injectors
do you have a Wait to start light as soon as you turn the key are you getting fuel. on the passenger side kick panel there is a fuel inertia switch sometimes they get tripped and they kill the fuel the pump. if you dont have a wts light most likely an idm or pcm issue
If you aren't firing with ether, you either have insufficient compression or the valves aren't opening.
not really true my 7.3 there has been times where my 7.3 had no fuel and ether wouldn't get it to start then when i track down the problem it would fire up no prob
i have had engines that had decent compression but needed a hint of fuel to help get it to fire. Does the either do anything? are you shooting it strait into the intake Y or waiting for it to go through all the IC plumbing?
A mouse nest in the air or exhaust system???
The old 3 cyl. Ford ag industrial engines wouldn't always run on ether if there was air in the fuel lines, you'd swear they had no compression, bleed them and they'd be fine. I would definitely do a compression check on this one though, particularly after it's been sitting.
I checked the inertia switch, the electric fuel pump is working, and making good pressure. I took the module out from under the left inner fender and swapped it with the one on my 450 {is there one somewhere else** , the 450 runs fine with all the parts I swapped off of the dead truck. the valve train is functioning , as I have the valve covers off, it spins over like it should , I haven't put a compression gauge on it ,but if it had no comprssion it would spin out of the frame, I have started many a low compression engine with ATF or Marvel oil down the intake and a cutting-torch for heat on the real bad ones, I installed a new starter ,and 2 new 65 mag batteries when I brought it home , I guess the previous owner burnt it up trying to crank it. It sat for 6 or 8 months with no batteries so there are no codes left in the system , no help there. I am convinced that the engine itself is serviceable, its a fuel or electrical problem, seams to me. The intake pipes are off , either strait in its gullet , its getting oil out of the injectors. I didn't just fog the either to it,as I have seen several IDI 7.3's bend a rod, but it didn't seem to help, and I have seen many engines that would Not run on either alone, I experimented with it for a good 2 days and then on and off for a day or two, and after this it still doesn't show any codes. I am trying to think of any thing else I did. the lights on the dash are functioning as they should. hope this helps you help me.
Ive seen old detroits and old d333 cats that wouldn't try to hit at all and the exhaust manifolds would be completely carboned up just a thought that it might be converter or muffler went out on a 355 komatsu that had set for several years and it would spin but not hit finally started pouring atf in it while spinning it and it finally started to hit and cranked up and spit a sputtered for a while ,it had just dried out and probably had stuck rings but the old boy went to work and then the leaks started
What is your ICP while cranking?
did you check for a wts(wait to start) light when you turn the key if it doesn't show up the truck will not start its a sign that there is no communication with the pcm or idm? there is a another module under the kick panel on the driver side that will also do this when it goes this also a symptom of a performance chip that goes bad which goes in the computer under the driver side kick panel. also there is a fuse i believe number 22 will pop and will not send power to the pcm
In his first post he said he checked and found no codes and did a buzz test. That would leave me to believe that the PCM/IDM are communicating. I would like to know what the ICP is while cranking. That will tell us a lot. JJ Actually worked on a 2000 F-550 with a shorted fuel heater today that had the blown fuse. They had worked on it for a week before they called. He was amused that I had it running in about 3 minutes of getting there.
we may have to table this until I get home on the 10th , the wait to start light comes on,I cant remember for the life of me what injector pressure read and I called my pal that was helping me and he couldn't remember either, I didn't check for stopped up exhaust, but I will,. all the fuses checked at least 19 times , I didn't know about the module in the kick panel on the drivers side I will check that too, I am getting a little grief from the dining and laundry department , it seams she would rather have had the money to take to walmart but said that if I could get that truck running at least she could DRIVE it there. thanks again
turbo training . com bruce ammacker ??? I think that's how you spell his name I've got two of his books 7.3 and 6.0 pretty good info and pictures
gabby i didnt notice in the beginning where you said you ran a buzz test you can swap the computer to try it although i don't think it may be your problem, since you were able to run a buzz test and you wts light comes on. to swap out that computer you need a 7mm and 10mm on the driver side under the emergency brake pedal where that kick panel there is another module there is a couple of 7mm inside i am usually able to get them out with taking anything else out. that is the one if you were to buy a performance chip where it would go. the 10mm goes on the outside on the firewall where it plugs in. get us a reading of your icp pressure and duty cycle if you can.
You can check the HEUI pump by installing a 5000psi gauge onto the back of the pump where the oil supply lines go to the heads. Use one line to to plumb the gauge to and cap the other one. I can't remember what the injector actuation pressure needs to be I think it is over 1500psi but that will tell you if the HEUI pumps working. Just crank the engine and see what the pressure is. Many times the HEUI pump will go out and there will be no codes. It is the same way with Cat HEUI pumps.
+1 in regard to the HEUI Pump. In fact if you have a Porta-power rip the valve/injector covers off, disconnect the line from the HEUI Pump to the engine and rig up a connection to the same fitting from the Porta-power. Try raising the pressure while at the same time observing the injector weep holes. That'll give you a good idea of your injector condition. If the injectors test out OK (little or no weep from all of them) your next suspect is the pump.
its needs 500 psi while cranking iirc
Yes cranking will be north or 500 and wot full load can be north of 3000
yup id check the fuel filter heater element under the fuel filter the one on mine went out wouldn't start its made cheap if that is the problem get a new one from international dealers instead they look like a stove top element they usually blow a 30 amp fuse when that happens though just my two cents
Hey Gabby, just as a precaution you may want to check the fuel in the system... make sure it looks,smells,feels,tastes like clean diesel, a buddy of mine was using some reclaimed fuel from a friend and after a while his 7.3 got incredibly hard to start, he finally had to put new injectors in it and a few other things $$$$$... needless to say he won't ever use diesel that doesn't come from a fuel station again I saw the fuel he drained from his tanks and at a glance it looks great... so who knows what it was tainted with???. Hopefully this is not the case with yours, I have several 97's and besides the crank sensor I have had the valve cover harnesses go bad and kill the engine, since you tried either and nothing fires I would think there is no fuel coming out of the injectors.
pumba, I unhooked the fuel heater right off, had the one on my 450 give me fits 4 or 5 years ago it doesn't get that cold in Ms. to need it. ronsii , is got fresh fuel in it , had been sitting for about a year so I let the pump squirt out what little was in it , then I filled it up with new, I am pretty shure is a brain malfunction , when I get home I am going to attack it.
Ahhh, Good to hear on the fuel situation Gabby I wish you all the best with it and hope you find a quick and simple(cheap!) fix to get her running again.
I honestly feel that fuel delivery is not the problem here. If you've shot it with ether and it didn't fire, you have an ignition problem, not fuel delivery. And no, I don't mean spark ignition, we're talking diesel here. When I need to juice my PowerStroke, I pull the air tube from the air filter box and give it a brief shot. Be sure your glow plugs are disabled. They are also making ether now with lubricants added which are safer for your engine. If the engine doesn't fire for a few seconds then there's something else wrong, either compression is too low to ignite the fuel or the valve timing is out of whack. If it does fire a few seconds, then fueling is indeed your problem.
Steve, I am not trying to be argumentative, but several of us have mentioned engines that wouldn't fire on ether. I can't explain it, but too many of us have seen it to discount it. I believed that too, until I saw it. However, at this point I would definitely be doing a compression check. The OP says he is sure it has compression because it doesn't spin too fast, but a lot of things could have happened that would cause no compression and it still turn hard. It's a long shot, but once you check the probable and improbable, the impossible is all that's left.
Has anyone noticed that a lot of the starting fluid now doesn't have near the umph to it as some of the old brands that are getting harder to find
Yes, don't tell anybody, but every now and again I'll use some to put a tire on the bead, and some brands have NO woompf at all, they just burn slow. 20+ years ago, I had an old Thermadyne Mack set up as a stationary engine on a sawmill, if the temp was above 30 it cranked immediately, below that and I'd give her a light whiff of ether. I went to Wal-Mart one night and they were out of regular ether, but they had some that said it was " environmentally safe". I bought a case and a few days later it was in the mid twenties, so I gave the old Mack a whiff, nothing. I gave her a snort, nothing. I checked her over good, bled the injectors, etc, nothing. I gave her a bunch of starting fluid, nothing. I found a little dab in an old can, poked a hole in the can and got a couple drops into the filter, VROOM! I sprayed the "safe" one in a cup and threw it in the fire, nothing. I sprayed it straight in the fire, it darkened it down! I returned it all.
My buddy got truck in his garage that would not start the Ford dealer couldn't figure it out. Turned out it was an oil pressure sensor. It wouldn't let t he motor start as it was detecting low engine oil pressure. Can remember what year power stroke.
Totally agree with Steve on this one..... Put your hand on intake tube while cranking make sure you have some suction, maybe you have a totally 100% plugged inter cooler or something! I've not seen it but I wouldn't rule it out, I would also call it valve train/timing problem I know you guys say some motors won't fire on ether but I've never experienced it,,,,,,, but then again I agree with the bead seating situation too, seems like I almost set more tires on fire than set the bead on anymore lol. If no luck check cam/crank timing, I'm not sure how to do it but maybe she jumped a couple of teeth and still has compression but at the totally wrong time On edit: in a pinch I have been known to take air filters out and throw a road flare down 'er throat, works like a charm just a little expensive but a damn site lest costly than tearing it down due to a bent rod or busted top cyl ring from ether locking. And yes the early strokers had a oil level problem, ford fixed the issue with a shorter dipstick Something else ya might try is to chase the cam sensor wire as far as you can and check resistance of it against the running truck to make sure you don't have a bad wire, I'm not sure if the truck will start at all without a cam sensor or just hard start........ Still not convinced that ether wouldn't start it tho lol , just make sure you unplug the other end of it first. Pj
Yair . . . I never see any reference to you folks in the U.S. using a petrol (gasoline) soaked rag around/under the intake. It always worked for me and seemed a bit gentler . . . the engines didn't throw that awful ignition rattle. Not as cold of course as you blokes get but I have seen water freeze one morning when I tossed a bucket on the windscreen. In those conditions the "B" model could easy run out of air and what a pain in the butt that was . . . thems were the days. Cheers.
Hi ScrubPuller, The 'gas rag' trick is actually how I was taught when I first got into this line of work when I told the boss I would find a can of ether... he showed me how to do it... the main thing was do NOT let the rag get into the motor!!! since then I quit buying cans of ether for the detroits Glad to see others know of this method and it's gentleness to engines, I mention it once in a while but like most things it is best to be showed the 'trick'
What great timing. My buddies boy just bought my old service truck. 01 550 7.3 with 193,000 on her. We parked it as it was getting hard to crank. I would stand on the starter for a minute or more before it fired. It was parked 7 years ago. I think now all it needed was the injectors resealed. Guess I'll find out as I will be helping a 15 year old on his first truck.
These are all great suggestions and I am chomping at the bit to get home and attack the this, its fixing to be shi++y and cold in ND so I'LL be glad to head south next week ,I'm gonna take an old glowplug and make me an adapter to check comp first off, The oil pressure gauge comes up when I spun it so that should rule the oil pressure sensor out, the either I was using was hot , I mounted a couple of 22.5s with the same can the day before , I didn't do it yet, but probably will get made and stick MR.VICTOR in the Y-PIPE and put a little fire in it , if its below about 50 that's the only way the 4-53 in my bantam picker will crank, ha-ha. Once again thanks for all the help, this is a GRRRREAT SITE!!!!!
Scrub Puller, In the Army, In 1985; we were getting the new HMMWV, High Mobility Multipurpose Wheeled Vehicles, Somehow shortened to HUMVEE. Anyway, the early HMMWV had a 6.2 GM diesel, but it had a dreadful glow plug system. The truck was 24 volt system; but to the glowplugs, they routed through big heavy resistors, for 12 volts. The glowplug system was awful. In commercial 6.2, I believe the trucks were 12 volt. I still have the schematics and the fixes we used; but that is another story. The gas rag starting procedure, at the outside aircleaner , would get them fired up even in the coldest weather. I remember a (not really mechanic), took the snorkle of at the intake; and proceeded to do this starting procedure. And for some reason, he thought he had to use the biggest and thickest rag, that he could find. Oh yea, sucked it right it. He wasn't allowed to take the cylinder head off; but he was made to clean that rag out of one exhaust valve. A real mechanic then put it back together. old1
actually lately i use silicone spray hell i had a 6.0 with a bad ficm the other day and i ran it on silicone spray long enough to get it on my trailer so i could bring it home and change out the ficm
Yair . . . fellers that is real interesting. I was unsure if the gasoline vapours would be enough to light something off in extreme cold . . . I hope I never have to try. (he grins) Cheers.
Scrub it not the vapours its the heat. Many moons ago when I was a very young sailor my ship would be at anchor in San Diego bay (its get cold there and foggy) about 0400 would be up to start the liberty boats to bring crew to the ship we had some old LCM's with 2 valve 6-71's and we would light a rag on a piece round stock soaked in diesel fuel and hold it up to the intake and feed the engine hot air (these had the flat marine intakes) and they would fire right up.
Yair . . . stinkycat . I think you misunderstand me. When I said "light something off in extreme cold" I meant actually getting the engine to fire up on the petrol fumes . . . that language thing again. (he grins) Cheers.
When I was in the USN everything was started by "lighting off." The commands from engineering or the bridge to start any engine was "light off #1 diesel". We always figured this was a throw back to the old steam engine days when those units actually had a fire started in them. I still catch myself sometimes telling someone to light off a truck or pump and piece of equipment. I get a funny look sometimes and the universal response of "what?"
My grandfather spent over 40 years at sea as a steam engineer, retired the year I was born and was responsible for my early mechanical education. I catch myself saying "light it off" sometimes too, but the expression I use more often, and gets me the REAL funny looks is, "go build a fire under that (truck, tractor, etc)"
:cool2
so you could start a diesel by firmly holding a gas soaked rag over the intake while its turning over and it will draw in the fumes or vapor and cause it to start is it possible to use a spray bottle or not. and yes gabbyvice27 its real ****** here in nd gonna be like this till may hahaha
Yes
Was this problem ever resolved?
Did the problem get resolved
I was hoping we would have heard back from the original poster for an update.
I was really hoping for a solution after 4 pages of reading
Yair . . . One thing that bugs me on forums is lack of follow up on threads . . . and folks not acknowledging others who have replied to a question. I know it is "only the internet" but this board is pretty special and I believe it only reasonable to try and be informative and polite . . . which is of course mostly the case here. Cheers.
I have searched trying to find a answer to a problem and find someone has ask about it before and they got a answer but that was the end of it and it left me wanting to know if it realy worked out.
Yair . . . Old Doug that's exactly what I mean . . . and why posts of folks such as Nige, tct and a few of the other informed blokes are such a valuable recourse . . . for better or worse it's always nice to see a tidy closed off thread. Cheers.
hello all ,sorry for not getting back to ya'll, I didn't have much internet time when I was home , had a lot of fires to fight , had to put a motor in my 96 f250, 450k miles never had the valve covers off, I guess it was time, pulled the head off the 3306 in the old mans CAT 12E grader , helped buddy overhaul 855 cummins in an S line IHC, what fun! helped "Santa" build kick azz 3 train, HO set for the 6 year old, took the wife on mini vacation , cleaned up around shop, and I goofed off a little bit. on the powerstroke , it has compression , I changed the computer in the kick panel , put a wiring harness on the motor , the high pressure oil pump gave me weird readings , even after I put the regulator valve off of my f450 on it , I pulled it off, but had to come back to work before I finished it, did I mention the water well crapped out? when I get back home I will follow up with more. THANKS TO ALL !!!!!!!!
Wow!!! Gabby, You have been a busy guy Sorry to hear about the well, I know first hand how much of a problem it is when your source of water quits... hopefully it is something simple and not the pump motor gone bad or a leak in the stem pipe.