2004 deere 160c lc, just bought about a month ago, hydraulic functions will occasionally get weak and slow, now hydraulic functions have stopped, it will try to move functions but just barely. Engine sounds normal, even powers up in H/P mode when moving joystick, havn't noticed any abnormal noises. Pulled pilot filter off and it has silver shavings in it, did not think to check if it was metal or aluminum. Also pulled what i think is main relief and i think there was some very fine shavings there too. Shows to have 4600 hrs. Could it be bad pilot pump or am i looking at complete pump failure?
The pilot pump supply oil is through the drive end of the main pump housing. The debris found in the main relief is not a good sign. Check the hydraulic return filter and also the suction filter in the bottom of the tank. I think that will indicate how big an issue you’re fighting.
Thank you, just curious, is the pilot pump a separate gear pump that I can remove and inspect
Yes, but it is located inside the bell housing. See screenshot below from parts catalog .
If you do remove the entire hydraulic pump assembly to inspect the pilot pump, while it’s on the bench might as well remove the main pump rear housing with regulator and check the main pump internals. Only cost you the gasket pt # 0838501 to take a look.
While you are at it, check the pilot filter for debris.
Thanks for your input, very helpful, when I get back out to machine gonna try to test some pressures
Not sure if It's possible to tell anything from these photo's, anyway, gear pump is bad, as for main pump, can anyone tell how bad it is from these photo's? Only metal I found in this section was on center plunger on each group, it was very fine and at tip and between the beveled washers
more pics
more pics
also, would anyone have a diagram of the main relief valve parts, think I lost a spring when I took it apart to clean and inspect it.
I really hope you marked the pump parts. Those plungers really should go back into their original bores if you do reassemble the pump.
See the main releif breakdown down from the service manual below. No service parts are available, if anything is missing you are buying the relief complete.
Can you take pics of the back side of the 2 valve plates and a pic of the rear housing where the valve plates slide.
Yes, I did mark the parts for reassembly, I’ve ordered a new relief valve, and gear pump, those valve plates are not moving, should they slide off without anymore disassembly, or might they have seized to the housing?
Just took a little more force than I expected
Better pics
Also can’t find part number for this pilot filter, any idea on number
found the pilot filter number
From all the pics you provided of the main pump (not pilot pump), the biggest issues I see are on the back of the 2 valve plates. The surfaces that are to seal high pressure oil are generally in good condition except where I have highlighted in the 2 pics below. There appears to be deep scoring in those locations. The valve plates are only available with the rotary groups which I‘m sure total more money than a reman pump. .
Is that worse wear than expected at 4600 hrs, and will this pump function even at a lower capacity, reman pump is over 11k, Deere I think is well into the 20’s, Do you know of a cheaper reman
Did you check the pilot pressure before removing the complete pump ? Seems to be more wear than expected at 4600 hours, oil cleanliness and quality is certainly questionable. The main pump will function of course at a lower capacity but I think the internal leakage and the heat created (along with summer heat) the machine will be a dog. There is a pump on eBa y for 8500.
Is that more wear than expected for 4600 hrs, also will this pump function even if at lower capacity, the remans I have found are 11k plus, Deere is well into the 20s I think. Do you know of a cheaper reman?
Sorry for repeat post, your reply wasn’t showing up, yes checked pilot pressure at plug on filter housing and tee’d into line marked , pd I think it was, would occasionally build a little but then would go away, maybe 200 psi at full throttle, but then dropped back to nothing
Think I saw the eBay pump, think it was from India or somewhere foreign, would you trust it
Whats the plan with the machine, personal use or revenue maker ?
I thought it was in Florida
Hitachi excavators are also made in India and sold as the Tata Hitachi, similar deal as what Deere had. My guess is that it would be OK, but it is a guess.
If the scratches on the lenses plate and other components aren't to deep they can be lapped smooth.
Yeah I looked again, one pump in florida and one in california, not sure where i seen the india location at, yes i do grading for a living, but i do most jobs with my smaller equipment, so it won't be the primary money maker, and i had thought i might try to lap those plates and head plate, was thinking a really fine grade of wet sand paper between them, what would you recommend using to do it?
I,ve had to order a couple parts already through Hitachi, Deere has discontinued some parts for this machine, appears to be same as ZX160. Is this correct
davisgravel, if you get hung up you can try SHP hydraulic pump services out of Pacolet,SC. They rebuilt some Deere/Hitachi pumps for me back in the day for a reasonable price.
Correct, apart from different engines.
Thank for all the input, gonna get some lapping compound and lightly lap those plates to the head and see what happens
Thought I’d update this post, I lapped the valve plates to the housing and cylinder blocks, installed a new pilot pump and it’s working again. Thanks again for all the input. You can let me know if you see anything in these pictures that’s still gonna cause a problem.
Looks much better, good job !