Just trying to do some research before I make any purchase. If you were looking at a JD 450 and 650, both approx. 6 years old, both 2400 hours, equivelent wear, etc- basically identical other than size. If you could purchase either one for 60% (just figuratively) of the original price, would you say either one is a better deal? Maybe one holds it's value more, less problems, or else. Please answer based on the machine alone, no consideration of job requirements or transportation. Secondly, can either be safely towed with a 1-ton or will it require a heavy hauler? Third when it comes to working the machine, can you charge an hourly rate that is almost directly proportional to the machines value? Will one tend to pay for itself faster than the other? Lastly, the 450 would limit the job size, but would you ever find yourself too big with the 650 for small jobs? Seems like the 650 could do the small jobs of the 450 and the bigger jobs. I appreciate any input or ideas.
650 no dout
Towing either of them with a 1 ton truck is not recommended, let alone legal. I've run both a 650 and 450 of various series (G, H, J) and prefer the 650 if tight areas aren't an issue. Even then, the 650 isn't significantly larger than a 450 to the point that you couldn't get it into the same places. However, if I was grading around houses all day, a 450 would more than fit the bill. For everything else, a 650 just plain has more juice and more weight that will allow you to push more material than a 450.
New company idea There is not a thread for this next question I pose. Is there now or has there been a company that coordinates rental of heavy equipment between companies that are not in business to rent?
Dozer Prices I would be thinking low 40's for an 02 or 03 650H 2400hrs With a cab. The Under Carriage also plays a big part of a Machines Value. 2400 Hrs in some parts of the World don't equal 2400 Hrs in another part of the World. Just something to think about. I have sold 3 Dozers so far this year and here's the prices I got. Just something to compare to. 1) Cat D4H LGP "HI-Track" 1991 Model 6800 hrs 80%+ undercarriage $30,000.00 Delivered 2) D39 Komatsu 2001 Model 5552 Hrs Same as 650 JD WholeSale Mid Twenties. 3) D37 Komatsu 2003 Model Under 2000 Hrs Same as 550 JD Delivered Under $30,000.00 I have moved all those locally with a One Ton Truck and a Gooseneck with Tandum Duals. I would go with the bigger dozer also. Just my 2 Cents. Hope that Helps
Different places, different laws. I can't speak for anywhere but here, but hauling a JD 450 with a one ton truck is done all the time. My neighbor has a guy that does allot of work for him that hauls a D4C with his one ton Chevy truck. From what I'm told, the advantage to those small dozer's is that you can haul them around with a pickup truck, get some work done and be out of there without any big hauling issues. Same thing with a backhoe. The dealers deliver them with one ton's. Eddie
I agree with the others, the 650 fer sure. Not much difference in size, put a lot more push and I think they are more comfortable to operate.
Choose the one that will fit your wallet.I think moving a LGP high track 4 with a one-ton is NUTS!
The two machines are on the same chassis. the 650 has one more bottom roller then the 450 and is only a few INCHES longer then the 450. The 650 weighs approx a ton more then the 450. i would def say buy a 650 if you could. I will say I notice NOTHING different between running our 550 v's the 650.
Deere 450 or 650?? First Dozer: Would these be the J model rutwad? And both have 6-way blades? Rippers on the back? If so... definitely go for the 650... IMO Unless, you could find a good 750... OCR... P.S. I put over 4,500 hours on the original undercarriage, on our 750c... and it still had some life left. It was a SALT track, and I had a few dry bushings... and the rollers were showing some pretty good wear too. Since I use it on fires, I didn't want to take any chances... so I went ahead and replaced it... with a Cat SALT undercarriage... lol Here's a link to that thread rutwad.
Shock Value lol. It's pretty flat around here with some hills. If I lived in WA. I wouldn't even consider it. :drinkup
Get the 650. A dump truck with a tandem utility trailer or a medium-duty rollback will move it. Also, everyone loves the 450's as they are the most popular size, especially for small-scale Logging. They will have had a HARD life. 650parts not that much more expensive. Plus, 650 does SO much more. G-models EXCELLENT little machines. KY Jim 650 John Deere Man
Sounds like 650 all the way. Any major differences between the G, H, or J? Of course the year model, but any ones preferred, or any to stay away from. Thanks!
The G model is what I ran, and the only one I can speak for. It was all levers and clutches. My Case is hydrostatic drive and allot easier to operate. Each letter change means a redesign or major improvement from the previous letter model. They may keep the letter for several years. The J would be the newest model and the most expensive. It will be the easiest to operate too. If you can find a low hour machine, that's the biggest thing. Then it's what you want for controls and features. If you are leaning towards the 650, then compare it to similar sized machines of the same weight and power. Sometimes you can find a deal out there, but keep your options open to another brand if one comes up. Just be sure you have a dealer close by to buy parts from and go to for advice on how to fix or trouble shoot a problem. Both my Case and New Holland Dealers have been awesome about printing out pages of manuals for me. They have given me older manuals and parts books too. I can't speak for the other brands around here, but good service is more important then the brand if machine that you buy. Good luck, Eddie
Not reccommended, that is debatable, that weight range is done everyday around here How is it illegal?
It is very illegal. The king of the towing hill right now is the Ford Super Duty F350. It can tow 17,000 pounds. My JD 450 weighs (coincidentally) 17,000 pounds. Now you need a trailor. A one ton truck CANNOT haul a 450. Oh....you can do it, but if you flatten a family of 4, you are probably going to Rikers for negligent homicide, or something like that. Then, the rest of ALL of us suffer incrimentally higher insurance rates.
I have a 450c deere trackloader w/ backhoe or winch. Bare weight of machine is 17k + weight kit + fuel + 2 backhoe buckets + dirt & other stuff... I'm looking for a 12 - 15 ton lowboy and the heaviest single axle dumptruck to pull it. With the weight of the trailer I'm told I need a truck rating like 36k. While a pickup does have the horse power to pull the load it doesn't have the weight or brakes to stop it. Don't believe the toyota adds... With the modern lawyer craze being are you injured... we will make it someone else's fault, I would not be giving anyone ammo to sue you with, let alone dot reckless endangerment or negligent manslaughter charges... YOU NEED A CDL SIZED TRUCK TO HAUL A 450
I see 350's and even 250's go through the weight station with 20k trailers loaded on a daily basis. A 350 with a 20k trailer is a CDL sized truck
Legal or illegal...:beatsme Here in Alabama, I bet the DOT troopers don't know. I had a 1-ton and 20k GN trailer. I went to take the test for my CDL. Before doing the walk-around, the DOt official was looking for the MFG tag on the trailer. She found the 20k rating and she was confused. She went in to get another official to come out with her. He too found 20k on the trailer. He looks at the empty trailer, looks around and says "I don't see 20k pounds of weight. This can't weigh 20k....... ointhead" You would not believe how hard it was to convince him that was the weight rating. The lady insisted on knowing the tare weight. i told her I did not know. She insisted that she must know the empty weight of the trailer. Is towing a JD450 with a 1-ton safe? I think it can be. Loaded properly to disperse the weight, and good trailer brakes should be fine. Alot will depend on driving style. Someone mentioned that a one ton does not have the weight to stop it. What about the F550? It can tow quite a bit more, but I would not think it's that much heavier of a truck. Alabama once had a "Farm" tag that allowed people to haul their own equipment for personal use, and they were not required to have a CDL. I'm not quite sure of the details, but it was something like that anyway.
every truck or equipment forum has had this arguement thousands of times. It just depends on your state and the circumstances on wether you will be stopped or not. Check your local regs. Most of the time the DOT looks at what your GCWR is which is what is printed inside the door jamb on the truck and usually on the neck of the trailer combine the two and that is what you can haul if you have the right license etc. etc. etc.
They still do, but it's not really a tag. All you have to tell the trooper is that you are hauling to your farm. No stopping at weigh stations etc, and you must be within 350 miles of you farm or address on DL.
Do you know if Alabamian's have to run a weight tag (ie.- X1 or X2) if they claim "Farm"? Does this also eliminate the need for DOT stickers, truck inspection, medical card, CDL, etc? THANKS!
Deere makes good small & midrange tractors.450 & 650 fall in this category.You need more than a one ton to safely haul either tractor.The hourly rate depends on what other operators are charging in your area for the same size tractor.I would say the 650 could do most of the small jobs of the 450, And still have some size for bigger jobs.Best regards rutwad,they are both good tractors.
§ 32-9-26. Farm trailers. Any provision of any other law of the provision of any administrative rule, regulation, or order to the contrary notwithstanding, it shall be lawful for any farmer, custom picker, or husbandman to operate a two to eight-wheel, one to four-axle trailer on the highways of this state if the trailer is being used exclusively for the purpose of transporting to and from a farm agricultural commodities or products and for agricultural purposes relating to the operation and maintenance of a farm; provided, that the combined weight of the trailer and its load is not in the excess of 36,000 pounds, nor more than 10,000 pounds per axle, whichever is less. § 32-9-27. Farm trailers; size; equipment. All such trailers as described in Section 32-9-26 shall be equipped with red reflectors to adequately illuminate the rear of such trailer by placing at least two on the rear and one at each side. No such trailer shall be in excess of 10 feet in width, except that such trailer shall not exceed 102 inches in width when operated or moved on the interstate highway system, and no such trailer, drawbar, or other connection, including the vehicle towing such trailer, shall be in excess of overall length of 76 feet. Overhang of round bales of hay on such trailer shall not exceed one foot per side except that the width of the trailer, including overhang, shall not exceed 102 inches when operated or moved on the interstate highway system. At no time shall there be more than one loaded trailer towed by any vehicle; provided, that two empty farm wagons or trailers with two or more wheels may be towed in tandem when the overall length of the towing vehicle and its tow does not exceed 76 feet altogether.
Thanks!
G-model is lever steer, the H-and J-models are Full Hydrostatic(joystick steering). KY Jim