Folks, Has anyone looked at the Deere www.SkidSteerSmackdown.com Thoughts and comments would be appreciated
There was another thread about this on here somewhere. Honestly the little contest is ok but the jobsite is where the real competition is.
thanks I agree, it looks like Deere tried to make it as real as possible----not sure how they could "fake it"-----what machines do you preferr and why? just curious
IMHO the entire marketing gimmick is "faked". They hand select what machine they compete against. I question the operators abilities. Deere would not have put this together if it was not carefully laid out to favor Deere. That only stands to reason as you would hate to get embarrassed on U tube. It is entertaining. It creates some "buzz" perhaps for the Deere skid steer. If your selecting this as your purchase criteria than your not very sharp. It is an advertisement and should be viewed as nothing more than that. The same principles of demoing a machine in your environment, doing the kinds of tasks that you do day in and day out should still rule the day.
That's why dealers have demos, customer can make a decision by actually operating the machine. Personally I don't like any skid steer only because I have to work on them. Of course Deere new the outcome, it is no different then a car commercial. However as an advertising standpoint they hit the nail on the head. No doubt no questions they did an excellent job of marketing to their base.
Have you ever tried any new 300 series Deere skidloaders???? :beatsme
Is that your service rig?? :beatsme
yes
I wouldn't like them either if I had to work on them. As they get more technology stuffed in them, they no doubt will not get easier to work on or trouble shoot. I don't think any of them are easy to work on. They are the equivilent of stuffing 10 pounds of poo in a 5 pound bag.
The new skidsteers are Electric over Hydraulic and have computers and all kinds of good stuff.
It seemed like the whole Smackdown thing was carefully crafted to play to Deere's strengths.
It showed that the Deere has more lifting capacity and higher tip load. Seems simple to me.
No doubt- but I wager that the weight amount was very carefully figured, as to tip both machines and leave the Deere looking good. Take off a few hundred pounds, maybe the Bobcat lifts it. Your talking a few percent more lift- might not be noticable in the real world.
Good point. Where is NH, CASE, TK, Komatsu? I think to be fair you conduct the test with at least the top 4 OEMs, not pick and chose which machine they want to compete against and in what event.
Deere has been very selective when staging these events choosing only to closely match their machines when things are in their favor and strangely picking machines that don't quite stack up the right way. All short wheel base machines in the hill course..where was NH? While I agree that the CAT 297C didn't perform well lifting the weight in the video it had the least matched ROC of the three. It makes for great theatre but leaves a little to be desired.
you guys are funny, its an advertisement..... I guess it worked
Yea, I think I mentioned that.
Out of curiosity, and so I understand correctly, do you mean that "It didn't perform well, but its ROC was lower" or that "It didn't perform well, but even so, I think it looked abysmal"?
KSSS, I have seen the comparison of the deere vs the new holland and others. Then NH doesn't have the Hydraulic power to pick the weight up(CT332)nor did any other. The closest was Tak and case. There are Videos of Every machine deere makes (CWP wise, small stuff) vs the comp, u just can't see them cause u kinda need to be a Deere salesman. I have watch hours of these videos till i could just bout make you a copy out of my head. Tigerotor77w, the ROC is the percentage of Roll Over Capacity(or rated operating Capacity, whichever) wheather is be usually 30% or 50%.
:Banghead Deere Sales Videos
Is Komatsu one of the top 4 oem's in skidsteers?
Hilarious and entertaining!
Whats up with this??
Thanks for the reply -- I'm aware of this (though it's 35%, not 30%). I was asking him to clear up his statement.
Actually ROC is Rated Operating Capacity which is typically half the tip weight in a wheeled machine and 35% on a track machine.
No their not. I think everyone who fields a skid steer or CTL should have been included in the demo. If not at least the top 4: NH, BC, CASE, and CAT. Perhaps I should have been more clear.
My point was that the 297C had the lowest ROC of the three at about 4,200lbs. I know that all machines will lift more than their ROC but I guess it doesn't impress me too much that the Deere could likt 6200lbs. If you look at their pin sizes they aen't any bigger than their skids. When you give a machine too much capability people start to break them. I'm also sure that the 297C and the T320 could handle any normal pallet of hardscape or sod just fine. How much dirt can you fit into an 82" bucket? Not 6200lbs worth and probably not 4200lbs either.
Might as well throw the ASV PT100 in there too.
Thats a 84" bucket and there are people that do more then just move dirt or sod. With the price of salvage iron there are guys using pallet fork and lifting and loading pickups and salvage car,iron,ect. that is close to or over the 6200 lb range. So to them lift is not overated and needed for there busniess:usa
I know a lot of guys running Deere's and have never heard of any snapped pins or "overload" type damage. Just because you don't lift the max amount your machine is capable of on a daily basis doesn't mean you aren't getting a benefit from that capability. More bucket and boom power means less stalling out in stockpiles, faster digging in hard material, larger bucket capability, more productivity overall. Also, regarding ROC numbers, that number has absolutley nothing to do with hydraulic capability. It is determined with the machine off and the boom in the most susceptible position. Start hanging weight and see when she tips. So just because the T320 has the same ROC as a CT332, doesn't by any means mean that the machines will be capable of lifting the same amount.
I have a ASV RCV and we routinely lift its max capacity or use its max pushing power. We have a grapple bucket for it and lift things like tree roots and concrete where you are at your tipping limit. Also if you are on any slope the higher your tipping limit the more you can load at a time on uneven ground. We also push a lot of gravel piles and dirt at the site for leveling, or cutting out hard clay. Our machines are continually used at their max power range. We are demoing a new CT332 on tuesday for digging a basement and doing some lot grading. **we are digging the basement with the hydraulic excavator and trimming in the level with the skid steer.** I want to do my own demo on this machine.
yea, I agree--------did you ever try a Deere skidloader?
I have, although I would like to run one of the E/H models. I really cant stand their control system, now that is updated, I would like to spend a day on one.
can you let me know how demo goes and how it compairs to the asv
Anyone worth their salt knows you can rig any series of tests to reflect any outcome you want, that's why the thing is bs to me. and so is paying extra for pilot controls when they are standard in other machines.
You are still paying for the pilots in other machines even though they are considered "standard equipment", however, Deere's are actually EH (electric over hydraulic) controls, same controls that Cat uses in their C series skid loaders
You mean Cat has EH controls similar to Deere.
they are from the same supplier, as far as I know---they are in all C series Cat skidloaders
The only part that is from the same suppliers is the actual handles. The programming and what happens between the valve and the handles is brand specific, each with their own ideas on what is best. The first thing I noticed when I drove the Deere joysticks is that when you're turning, you don't get the jolt/hesitation from the inside track/tires slowing down. The Deere's speed up the outside track/tires to make the turn so it's much smoother. Cool idea.
To me it makes a lot of sense to pay extra for joysticks. Not everybody wants that style, so why limit your options. Pay for what you want. Even with the E/H, you'll still be thousands cheaper than the closest thing Cat offers. I think Case has gone to standard pilots on the track units, but I don't see many of them around here and haven't priced one to know where they fall in.
Well last tuesday we used the CT332. I didn't realize how wide the machine was. The ASV RCV is 72" wide while the deere is 82" across the tracks with an 84" bucket. You can read the specs yourself on a comparison so I won't get into the specs. The machine pushed well, ran well and servicing would be light years ahead of ASV. Getting into the engine compartment etc. The biggest drawback and it may seem picky, but getting in and out of the cab is terrible. The door slides above your head. I am 6'2" and I was ducking with the door open. It is also a very small door to get into and very difficult to get your feet in the right spot easily. I did notice not having suspension in the tracks although it didn't make much of a difference in cutting a level. It might make a little difference in leveling a gravel or ground pile, as you might have to make a few extra passes. We were using the machine for digging a basement. We dug the basement with a hydraulic excavator and cut the level in the basement with the skid steer. We also leveled the clay around the basement with the skid steer.
Its like sitting in a bath tub and equally challenging getting in and out. I don't like not being able to see directly around the machine. You cant see the tires at the ground. I look forward to trying their E/H controls though.
Yea, the cabs are not easy to get in and out of and the ride would not be as "smooth" as the ASV----its definitely more of a construction machine
As far as access, I don't think there's a skid loader out there that's easy to get in and out of. When I first ran a Deere, it was a little awkward, but after a couple of days and getting a technique worked out it's no problem even at 6' 6". I just put one foot in, grab the handles on the door opening, turn around and drop into the seat. Getting out, just kick one foot out onto the step, grab the handles and step out. I find it difficult getting in a Bobcat or other brand now with the deep foot well and high kick panel. They're all just different, and you get used to what you're using.
Good point MXZ. It could be just that I needed a couple of days to get used to it. It pushed well, though maybe a little underpowered. For the weight of the machine it could have a little larger engine. Very wide machine too, that only matters because of the type of trailer I haul it with. I only have 1/2" on either side to fit the tracks between the wheel wells.
Apparently they are making this into multiple seasons... http://www.deere.com/en_US/cfd/construction/deere_const/newsroom/2008/081112_season2.html
I just saw that the other day. Ill be watching, maybe it will be harder to say Deere rigged the challenges. But I have a hat on the way from New Holland.