My boss asked my opinion the other night on what I thought about a trade in here is the options. We have a 287b cat with about 1300 hours that went halfway in the lake and has been an electrical problem ever since. Basically the 287 is going bye bye and we have a couple of options. The facts: Cat will give us $32000 trade in value for the machine. We will be turning this 287 into two new machines If we go with Cat again we would be getting a new 247b and a new 277c We demoed the new t320 bobcat with the suspension Not sure about what bobcat would give us for trade in value or how much the new t320 costs Cat's warranty is pretty untouchable for 3 years and their financing is good The 277c would be $62000 and the 247b would be $49000 Not completely sure what the two new bobcat models would be, we own a t250 and s-300 also My boss was still waiting to hear from our bobcat dealer on how much they would give us for trade in on the 287 or how much their new bobcat goes for. My impression of the new T320 with suspension was'nt that great. It was like a rocking chair and when i was loading a dump truck actually tipped into the sideboards. It had the cat controls which I prefer but the controls were very touchy. It did have some nice features, it could push like a monster and had a snail mode that you could pick the percentage of travel speed you wanted. The new instrument panel was fancy looking and it had a very nice new machine smell. I told him I would prefer to run the new cat machines, but I understand that they are a high maintenance machine with alot of moving parts. I was just wondering what you guys would do if making the trade in decision. When I hear the bobcat figures I will post to get the whole story financially. Just wondering what you guys would say in a similar situation.
I think those prices sound a little high considering the size of the machines. ( i could be wrong) what do you do with your track machines? My takeuchi TL150 was $58,999.00. It will blow away a 277 as far as power is concerned and with many other tasks. only thing i would say is better about the cats is the tracks do less damage to the ground than the takeuchi. I own 3 287bs and a few takeuchis so for the record I'm not bashing cat. As for the 247, i can't see paying $8000 less than my tl150 for a tiny machine. there is a 2007 247b on machinery trader with 450hrs for $32.000. its located in MN.
1800 hrs on a machine or before is when you want to trade after that they lose there trade in value significantly the 320 goes for i think between 65,00 and 70,000 depending on what all options you get they are also fly by wire on the bobcats cat is suposibly going to the same and getting away from the pilot joysticks rumor dont know for sure i like the tl150 but for 2500 lbs of lift it seems like that big of a machine could lift more they push like a house though
We do just about anything and everything with our skids from site clean up, grading, demo, prepping trail bases, you name it and we use it for it. The Cat dealer is about a quarter mile from our shop, and their warranty includes a free loaner so that sort of convenience is tough to beat. I have not run a takeuchi before, but I know the ride on a Bobcat CTL will wear and rattle you enough to not want to be in there too much, just my personal preference. Hey bobcantmechanic, what were you saying about the fly by wire on the bobcats? I wasnt able to follow what you were saying. I was under the impression that the pilot controls were going to be industry standard for skids, but thats just what I heard a guy say.
Bobcat uses Electric over hydrualic or drive by wire. Pilot controls are not the same as EH. The new Deere and C series CAT are also E/H. The BII series CAT machines are pilot still and did not receive the EH control system. Pilot controls are hyd. based and do not use electricity to send the signal to a valve. There are advantages to both but the short story is that although they are common lumped together as joys stick controls they are much different in design.
Thanks for the info, KSSS. Have heard the term, EH and pilot controls, but not the specifics.
I have a Bobcat T250 and it is a good machine, very strong, just not that reliable. I have demo'd a Tak 150 and the Gehl equivalent and was very impressed. Demo'd a similiar sized Komatsu CTL and it was a total dog. I don't like the Cat's undercarriage for the jobsite conditions we work in, with all the exposed rubber rollers. It depends on what kind of conditions you work in and what you need the machine to accomplish. There are a lot of choices out there, so spend a little time and try as many as you can. Of course dealer support and financing are important factors as well.
Try the CASE 440 or 450 tracked machine. They are very powerful.
I vote for the tak 140 - 150, while not a 953c it sure tries. Things can push a pile.
My problem with the bobcats is that all vibration from the tracks travel through the whole machine. Today that muffler rattled loose, and then a little later a chunk of metal came loose and shredded the belt. But then again theres nothing like catching a rock in your cat undercarriage, seeing smoke and smelling rubber.
I know that CAT is offering steel rollers in its C Series as an option. You can get just fron and rear idlers in steel or pick and choose which ones you want. The 247B2 comes standard with metal rear idlers and uses metal face seals on all of its rollers now to reduce cost. The 277C should not be compared to the TL150 but the TL140 instead. I have heard the same about the new T320 with suspension. It doesn't make sense to me why you would "try to suspend (leafsprings-***)" the mid rollers and not the front and rear idlers since that is where the initial impact on the machine is when you go over things. I would also take a look at the ASV PT60 as a comparison to the 247B2. It uses the same undercarriage and offers some benefits such as lighter operating weight, 11mph, same lift height, same width, more ground clearance, same hp, and the option to use turf tracks if you ever need to. Good luck.
the t320 accoriding to the district rep said the front and rear are up a little off the ground which to them reduces track wear because the track has less area on the ground it seems to teter toder when you have a load on it and stop real fast or are shaking the bucket it also tips down with a load on it when you are in the pile i haven't got to grade with it yet so i dont know how that is leaf springs i see as being ok but i see them also breaking and being a pain in the butt to replace as each one is stacked on top of each other so if the middle one breaks it appears you have to take them all apart to that point in order to get it out to replace it.
Well its a done deal, turns out we have two new Cats in the fleet. A 247BII and a 277C. Ran the 247B2 for half a day today, and tomorrow I'm grabbing the 277C to spread some woodchips on a trail. The dealer just so happened to have these two machines unclamed and had pencilled our names on them. Got a high flow package thrown into the 277C. Their records said it was normal flow, but something got screwed up so they just let us have it anyway. Has the air seat and two speed option. I'll try to take some pictures soon. Thanks for all the good discussion on the topic guys. Its hard to say how that roller suspension in the Bobcats will hold up over time. Your right on bobcatmechanic about the front and rear idlers are slightly raised. This makes the machine rock quite a bit when loading trucks, that coupled with the touchy controls caused quite an experience which looked alot like my first day running a skid loader. But its good to be humbled once in a while.
We Have and ASV RCV which is the same as the RC-100 although ours has the vertical lift and doesn't have the turbo on the perkins 85 horse engine. After 800 hours we replaced a number of rollers and all the bearings in the tracks. This was outragously expensive and kind of a surprise to us. Have the steel rollers held up any better and have any of the Cat Machines had any of the same problems with the number of hours. We do work with a lot of aggregate and materials that may be abrasive so I can understand the rubber rollers going although the bearings going doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. We are going to be demoing the case machines and the Deere and possibly a cat(the salesman doesn't like to return phone calls since we purchased a Backhoe there). Seems that serviceability (don't know if that's a word) on the ASV is terrible. If you have to work on it it is hard to get around. Last year it was getting fixed about every 100 hours (only has about 1300 on it now). We are very dissapointed with that machine. I suppose every brand has a dud although I feel that we will go with the big 4 for our next machine.
"Serviceability" is a little hard on my ASV RC 30 as well. Needed a new battery at about 500 hrs, ( an issue all by itself) but in replacing the Batt. several items had to be moved or removed. On my TL 130, coolers are hinged to swing outward, thus allowing great access to battery. ASV had a great chance to adress some of these problems with the new PT series and while they made some great changes, alot of nagging problems remain.
One of the things I learned when talking to engineers while I was selling for Bobcat is that there is only so much room in the frames of compact equipment. Bobcat has the same issue getting to the battery. Servicing a machine is a big selling point and by being able to point out the easy access to all of the filters on a transverse mounted engine in the Bobcats allowed me to gloss over the battery issue.
Our Polaris needed a battery around 700 hours. If you can get the old battery out and new one in you should get more than a medal.:Banghead
247b11 & 277c Hey, MN DIRT TECH have you had a thrash round in the 277c yet ? Keen to get your impression. Have you tried flicking with the 4 in 1, with bucket open about 8 inches and front edge vertically down ( so you can see the whole of the buckets Rs )on the ground then flick a small amount of material in front of you. Dunno if its the EH or just our machine, but the slow hydraulics just cant do it, the 277b has no problem. Especially handy when spreading topsoil or mulch around pegs or small trees, or flicking a rock away. I find a huge lack of feel in the hydraulics on the C. Reckon Cat took a step backward with this machine. ointhead
asv nagging problems 74inchshovel, what other nagging problems remain? i am considering an asv 2009 pt-80. thanks
On my 30 these would include rear rollers that fall off ( should not be an issue on the 80, as they have different seals), several electrical problems, the hose to cylinder fittings always blowing O rings, ( I now carry a baggie of spares), no bushings on any cylinder or arm pivot point- this one just irks me, but really, not all this applies to a PT 80. Different roller seal, it might have steel rear rollers, (not sure), all grease points are bushed, they did away with the flimsy fiberglass engine shroud, it seems like a heck of a machine-good luck
Anyone try a JD 332? I saw the propaganda videos of it on Youtube and if they are infact true tests, it looks pretty impressive.
Ease of operation : Tak or Gehl BUT track wear is rough & expensive over time however the equipment is bulletproof other than that. Complicated & extremely compact engine compartment but relatively simple to maintain. Traditional : meaning "hand & foot control"-Bobcat without a doubt. NH is noisy as he!! after the bearings wear in but the push strength is better. Bobcat is easier to maintain, IMO, but more complicated. And complicated with employees is always a problem. NH is more than close. CAT & Deere - WARRANTY's rock but they are heavy for the size and with CAT track replacement is expensive. The others: No experience & no comment. Cost is comparative in most cases however-track & bucket wear for each are different. For the record, I'm new but seasoned. Operator/Trainer since 1983. Learned on 743 and have operated everything on the market but the ASV