HEY EVERYONE GOTTA DEUTZ 2011 WITH A CYLINDER 4 MISSFIRE, INITIALLY MACHINE HAD NO FLOW AT FUEL LINE, REPLACED INJECTOR PUMP, HAD FLOW BUT NOT ENOUGH SUPPLY, FOUND SOME KINKED LINES, PLUGGED LIFT PUMP SCREEN AND FILTER, REPAIRED AND REPLACED THAT. WHAT IVE DONE SO FAR... CYL 4 PUMP SWAPPED CYL 4&3 PUMP AND INJECTORS AROUND. INSTALLED A BANJO BOLT ON CYL 4 SUPPLY THAT WE CAN HOOK A GAUGE TO... 6 OR SO PSI OF SUPPLY WHEN RUNNING. CLEANED AND/OR REPLACED ALL FILTERS PULLED/ INSPECTED VALVE TRAIN- NO BENT RODS OR BROKEN PARTS - WHEN YOU CRACK 1-3 FUEL LINES IS MAKES A BIG CHANGE IN RPMS, BUT CYL 4 IS ALMOST DEAD IS SEEMS LIKE. ITS A VERMEER STUMP GRINDER AND IVE HIT A WALL HERE
When you swapped pumps, did you verify the drive pin dropped into the rack?
BTW, welcome to the forums, make sure to swing by new member introductions later and say hi
I felt fairly confident that it went in right, but I wasn't sure if there was a way to confirm... so in short, no I suppose not, I assumed it was correct because it does spray fuel out the line when cracked... what's the best way to confirm that it is in correctly?
There's actually a wire tool that goes down into the body and locks the driven plate in place to the body. But you said you're getting fuel delivery. Should be in the slot then. And you've swapped nozzles, next is take the nozzle out and bring that hole up to TDC, valves closed, not on overlap. Blow air into the injector opening. See if you hear air in the intake, the exhaust or from the oil cap.
yea i do have that wire thing it came with the new injection pump.. i pulled the injector, pressurized and heard nothing, tried again and it shot the piston down so im assuming cylinder wise everything's good there
should also state this engine is newer, was replaced roughly a year ago
So there is a dimple in the plate on the bottom of the pump. It's very stiff to turn without the pump installed. If you put the lick wire in place, you may be able to feel the wire hit the dimple as you rotate the plate. It has to be aligned and dropped into the slot on the rack or it won't behave.
just checked that, i can feel the dimple so im just sure the pump is set in right
So you've swapped pump 3 with 4, no change. Swapped nozzle 3 with 4 still no change. Blew air into closed cylinder, no air leak into intake, exhaust or crankcase? The only other possibilities I can guess are, fuel pipe between pump and nozzle is obstructed, or the real slim possibility that the EGR is stuck on. What could be done, but it's dicey... remove the nozzle and pipe, reposition the nozzle hanging out over nothing off the fuel pipe. Have it spray into a tin can or something. Crank the engine and see if you're getting a nice atomized fuel delivery, that there are no streamers and it shows a good pattern. STAY AWAY FROM THE FUEL CLOUD, the pressures are dangerous, this is strictly for testing. Good luck
is it possible for the pump to be way to advance or retard? tested the injector outside, had good spray and atomization, reinstalled everything and ran it loosened the nuts that hold the pump down and rotated it.. it changed tone and ran differently, that tells me its in the timing of the pump? am i right? i feel like that's the right track
Yes, you can "time" the pump with the limited travel in the hold down screw holes. My understanding was, you had a dead hole?
-initially I had issues with fuel supply,, that was fixed by some filters and lines -then I found scoring in cyl 4 pump so I replaced that which then gave me fuel to the injector -then I swapped 3 & 4 injectors, no change still #4 miss-- swapped pumps 3 & 4,, same result - pulled valve cover and inspected, no damage, all worked like it should. -then made sure injection pumps were in the rail,, they were - checked for cylinder/valve leaks w/ air-- no leaks -tested cylinder 4 injector externally,, good spray/atomization. I suppose I might not have been descriptive enough, the current issue is when you crack the line, fuel comes out but does not change the tone or Rpm of the engine, so what seems to me as a misfire just recently I rotated the pump and it seemed to come to life of sorts. (the tone changed), so I was thinking maybe it was firing the injector way late which was why there was no tone change before when I would crack the line so essentially we have fuel/air--compression-- the one thing I really haven't checked is timing, I'm pretty confident the belts ok due to it running fine on 3 cyl and its fairly low hours as its a newer engine (1 yr or so) camshaft and roller lifter as i would call it have no damage or irregular wear
Sounds like a dead cylinder. I think the next step is a compression and leak down test. From my limited understanding, The timing is set via shims under the pumps. Fuel volume will delivery is set via rotation of the pump delivery nozzle.
Worn cam lobe might also be a possibility
hey cliffy, so far with everything I've done/tested shows no life,,, the only thing that made a difference was turning the pump, I'm fairly sure the compression is good and also when I put the new pump in i had already inspected the lobe and there was no damage/ wear... -when I rotated the pump it changed the tone/changed the rpms, I left it at that and cracked the line and it changed tune.. the shims///rotating the pump, is kind of where I would like to confirm is set correctly but unfamiliar with the procedure to set it
We're there shims under the pumps to begin with? Look like gaskets but are sometimes paper thin up to metal plate as thick as .045" if you have o-rings around the lower body, you may not have shims.
had shims and o rings,,,, they're in there
So, now we have a potential problem. You have to measure from the block face, down to the tappet. That is your "X" on the side of the pump should be stamped or printed a value. The color of the tag means something also. Anyway the value on the side is the desired installed height. This we'll call "Y" gotta subtract one from the other to determine the shim thickness. Most times, guys will drop a pump in a shimmed engine and destroy the piston. The upside is, you haven't run it hard under load, so you probably haven't hurt it yet.
Sorry for the late reply, got caught up in some other things here's where I'm at,, the depth to the tappet is 1.961in.. unsure in what numbers refer to the pump.. the numbers on the new pump are below -0428 6967 (ID PLATE) -D 5282 (ID PLATE) -TC 900225 (ID PLATE) -Stamped on side of pump -S2106
correction, depth is 51.88 minus the 52.82 =.94mm
well i was able to get my hands on the manual, remeasured,, with all that done, the shim needs to be .95mm and that's what i have in it..
That is good to see. So reading all the back and forth again, you had a mechanically failed pump, replaced it but suspected no contribution. As you later found, slightly rotating the pump changes the "throttle position " of that single pump and as a result, changes the sound of the engine . Man, you got extremely lucky with the shim height. Never have I scored like that. I have a somewhat simpler version attached , check it out when you get time. Glad you got her sorted.
Yes, I'm glad you were able to help with this it was really helpful, got all the tinwork on, washed off my grease prints and it ran great, thank you for all your advice it was top notch!