We have found over the last few weeks that the data the California Air Resources used to devise the accelerated implementation of emission standards were exaggerated by over 40%. There is a movement for the CARB to back off some of the off-road deadlines and levels of PM and NOx to reasonable levels. The schedule they set would have crippled a weak industry to the point that only national and multi-national construction companies could have survived. Suggest the the moderator and founder of Heavy Equipment Forums.com set up a folder for emissions. Emission compliance will be constructions toughest hurtle over the next 15 years. If EPA hasn't knocked on your door yet, just wait.
CARB? Back off? You must be dreaming!
There is a chance CARB will back off We are seeing more research that is showing CARB way over estimated the amount of equipment and horsepower that existed in the state. Here is a summary of two U.C. Berkeley researchers on the subject of off- highway emissions in California. D.E. Millstein, R.A. Harley / Atmospheric Environment 43 (2009) 6328–6335 4.4. Policy implications Construction activities generate air pollution including dust, gasoline and diesel engine exhaust, and VOC from paint, adhesives, and building materials. Air pollution emissions from off-road diesel-powered construction equipment appear to be significantly overstated in current emission inventories for California. Furthermore the assumed spatial distributions of activity and emissions appear outdated, at least for southern California. Engine retrofits or replacements for control of NOx/PM emissions from off-road construction equipment may therefore not deliver overall air quality benefits that are as large as policy-makers have previously assumed. Rod Michaelson http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/CARBoffroaddiesel/
Rob Welcome to HEF Glad to see you here. Hopefully we can get some good discussion going on the subject. This industry deserves a chance to prove that the research CARB did was bogus and the alleged benefits of the in use rules were completely wrong. Sad thing is that a lot of the damage is already done. One thing I remember most from attending the various CARB meetings is that even their own people admitted that the in use rule would only speed up the clean air benefits by a couple of years over what the federal rules would do based on the normal replacement of older machines with newer ones if they left things alone. That they could enact a rule that breaks the back of many businesses in our industry merely to gain a couple of years in the quest for compliance on paper is a travesty.
Emissions Forum Jerry, There is nothing more important to the industry as a whole then to get CARB to "see the light". Hopefully HEF is the right meeting area for the exchange of ideas on a equipment manager level. Most of the emission groups are so technical that the not science / researcher can easily get lost in the terminology and volume of data they present. I think Diesel Emission Regulations should have it's own section in the forum, but as a junior member of the group I will leave that up to you Senior members and of course the founder. Rod Michaelson 30 years of heavy-civil-engineering construction equipment experience and I have never seen anything more challenging then these business destroying regulations.
I've been watching the California debacle with interest because we have a green princess for a governor who has publicly stated she wants to go the way of California. I've never understood how it was figured out that off highway equipment could emit so much air pollution to the environment when it makes up so little of the total number of diesel engines. Apparently there was more parchment paper mouths blowing wind than common sense could check out. At any rate it might not make any real difference soon. The economy has shut down a lot of the small contractors in Washington State. Many of my clients just shut the doors and walked away from their businesses. The repo market is huge. There is a Cat storage yard over in Pasco that is packed to all the fence lines. Many haven't upgraded machines because they saw what was coming. Throw in a California style green program here and watch what is left of the industry just dissolve. Keep fighting down there. If you lose, it is most likely that the rest of us will to.
I hope the ARB does slack off but there have already been a huge number of high dollar decisions made to comply. Not really the place for wishy washy regulations. As a small earthmoving contractor I have taken steps to upgrade some of my equipment and get rid of some of the unregulated machines that were in perfectly good working condition. Imagine what the large contractors and rental co's have done.
Tier O illegal to add in California Many of you may know but for about a year (3/1/09) it has been illegal in the state of California for a contractor to purchase a piece of equipment older than: 1998 for 25 to 49hp 1997 for 50 to 99hp 1996 for 100 to 174hp 1995 for 175 to 750hp 1999 for 750 and up "As a matter of policy, fleets found to have illegally added Tier 0 vehicles will be assessed a minimum civil penality of $50 per engine horsepower." A contractor with a fleet of older equipment is done in California. Retrofits do not work on these engines. Some are doing repowers to higher Tiered engines a a cost of $50,000 to $150,000 per unit. Coming to a state near you. Rod Michaelson http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/CARBoffroaddiesel/
Off-road diesels prove CARB redundant http://www.constructionequipment.com/blog/1200000720/post/20051202.html Very good article on what is happening here in California in relationship to the AGC and the California Air Resources Board. I suggest that it is time to get involved. Rod Michaelson http://endangeredfreemarketcapitalist.blogspot.com
Professor James Enstrom will be speaking today at 5:00 on the John & Ken Show on San Francisco Bay Area radio station 910 AM. For those outside of the Bay Area, you can stream live via computer by going to the KNEW 910 website or KFI 640 in Southern California. With an audience of over one million listeners, the CARB fraud and subsequent cover-up are gaining nation attention. Rod Michaelson http://endangeredfreemarketcapitalist.blogspot.com
I set a reminder to listen if I am by a radio. Thanks for hte heads up. The more the message gets out of the fraud commited in passing these rules, the better chance we have of catching a break.
Question for those on this forum. Why is there not more concern out there in the construction industry regarding these new emission laws? Is it apathy or what? I believe the diesel emission tactics and the global warming scare techniques being laid upon us are going to change our industry in many negative ways very quickly. Rod Michaleson Equipment manager for 30 years and never have been so concerned about our industry and country as I am now. endangered middle-class, free-market capitalist :Banghead
The general feeling in the population is that we can't keep dumping all the exhaust fumes in the air and waste chemicals in the ground. Since the sixties the education system has been drumming in that the human population is a cancer on the earth. When this theory is lightly looked over it makes sense to most people. We have changed our cars and trucks for the better since the sixties. The feeling is that had the government not required cleaner emissions we would still be driving 57 Chevys. The rub as most of us in the industry have seen, is the degree to which government is going to make that change in the time frame that is specified. We also have an in grained belief that the education and research establishment is dedicated to pure science. Most people in this country don't believe that there are agendas within that community. Most forget that the college system for the most part is run with the idea of how much money can be made teaching a certain program or how much grant money can be pulled from the government if we create a problem that may or may not exist. If someone has a piece of paper that says they are an expert it will most times be taken at face value. Who will check on it during the normal course of business. Look at the scandal in California for evidence. We have also been brought up to be trusting in what the media puts out and that they don't have any bias. Most forget that the media is a private business that has to make a profit on what they do. If that means they sensationalize a story to sell more papers or ad time on the tube then that is OK. If the story is complicated and boring, the media will gloss over it because it may not bring in the ratings. What it will take is a concerted effort to bring the news media to the table. Where are the people who have lost their jobs because machines couldn't be run? Where are the businesses that have moved out of California? Where are the unforseen damages to the population being caused by the new laws? Until these questions become every day news, it will be hard to make a change. I think the people on this forum are in step with the problem but don't have the means to effect big changes because we are so geographically diverse. It will take an organization with some money, time and well known personalities to get the attention of the media and then the population. Change will not happen until we bring more people than what is here into the debate. Keep up the fight!
I for one, am very concerned! The whole emission global warming thing makes my blood boil. Who is policing these new regulations? I see people running old equipment all over, I don't hear of anything happening. Who is going to know when I buy tier 0 tractor?
I am also very concerned. On many different levels. For one thing, a great deal of damage has already happened here in CA. Values for tier 0 and tier 1 machines are even lower comparably than newer iron. Many companies have suffered by not being able to sell or refinance to weather the storm during the current recession. Others who bought new or newer iron to stay ahead of the regs have now lost everything due to recession. They could have held on with their old, paid for iron, but the new gear with the accompanying payments have sunk them. If you are in trouble like that, you can't even sell out, as there are no buyers at anything over scrap iron price, and sometimes hard to get that. I was one who got involved with fighting the regulations in '07 and '08, along with many others who banded together and spent time and money fighting CARB. We as a group got steamrolled. Many lost hope after that. Now that there is legitimate data and reason to reopen the fight, it is too late for many companies, and others are on the edge, without time or money to join in the fight. When I spoke to the CARB board meeting in San Diego in '07, I brought up that even CARB data said we as an industry would struggle financially to comply with the rules, but could do it, I pointed out that if we struggled to comply during the biggest boomtime the industry has ever seen, what happens when the downturn that is coming hits? I got looked at like I was dumb for that comment. Trying to keep a positive outlook and looking ahead to the recovery of the economy, I see maybe not the next, but certainly another problem. The volume of machines exported from the state is beyond anything expected, and when work picks up, there will be a shortage of equipment to perform the work. Many companies will have been battered financially to the point they can't buy anything close to new iron, and CARB response is "well, I guess you will have to rent it" . And where is the rental company? Many of them fled the state due to the rules as well. Dealers will even be gunshy to buy large fleets hoping the economy keeps up, once it gets going, and all this will drive prices up for those left, but will help stall recovery by making projects uneconomical to build. Raising prices on development when the economy is trying to recover will slow the recovery, stretching the current pain out longer. Sure, highway work will continue, but if the prices go up for the work due to new regulations, then less jobs get awarded to stay within the budget. Same money gets spent, but less projects means less people employed, and the cycle goes on. To sum it up, as bad as the rules have been already, we are just starting to feel the pain, IMO. I could go on, but it already sounds like a broken record.
Jerry, Like you, I started this discussion with CARB in December 2006 in Sacramento. Many of the larger California contractors came out of that meeting shaking our heads? ARE THEY KIDDING US? We were sure that common sense and reason would take over if we just work with CARB and start getting rid of our Tier 0 machines and make some attempt at cleaning up our fleets. We even did some DPF installs. No good. After three years working with these folks, I have determined that logic, statistics and common sense is not going to work. It is not about clean air and health. I don't think it ever really was. If it was, they would work with us. This fight is political and social engineering and now I am convinced that the only method to deal with this will be political. So political it will be. We have a pro-business Republican, Meg Whitman, and a very old-school liberal Democrat, Jerry Brown, that will be running for govenor this fall. The govenor is the only person who can remove the head of CARB. So we have to take it to them politically. Mary Nicoles has to go. The California Resources board has to have some business representitves on it. I would have perfered to deal with this logically, like us contractors normally deal with problems. But these are not normal days. I hope the rest of the country backs us in this fight. If we loose, then it is just a matter of time when the air police will be knocking on your door and shutting down you diesel. Believe it or don't. It is happening. Jerry, I know you get it. Rod
standard is good
Well, some small measure of good news. The following was just posted to the CARB listserv. I will take it with a grain of salt, because it does not slow down the regulation (yet) but at least takes away some of the immediate enforcement risk. Maybe there is some hope. Enforcement of regulations will be postponed. Release 10-13FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASEFebruary 11, 2010 Leo Kay916-849-9843 cellwww.arb.ca.gov ARB gives relief to off-road construction equipment owners SACRAMENTO: Air Resources Board Executive Officer James G.Goldstene issued the following statement today: “Over the last several years, the construction industry hasfelt the sting of the faltering economy with reduced activity andidled off-road equipment. This has made it difficult forcontractors to pay for required clean-air upgrades to theirfleets. Along with this reduced construction activity has been acorresponding reduction in construction emissions. “Because of this, ahead of a March 1, 2010, compliance deadline,ARB will issue an enforcement advisory to notify all stakeholdersaffected by the off-road equipment regulation that effectiveimmediately, and until further notice, no enforcement action willbe taken for noncompliance. In addition, on March 11 anExecutive Officer hearing will be held where stakeholders maytestify on the question of whether the off-road regulationsshould be further modified to account for the down economy andsubsequent emissions reductions. That information will beincluded in an already-scheduled update to the full Board at itsApril meeting. “ARB will continue to evaluate the impact of the recession onemissions from all sources and make adjustments to ourregulations as needed. However, the health of all Californiansrequires that all industries continue to use the cleanest, mostefficient equipment possible. Clean air is not a luxury – it isa right. We need to continue to work toward goals that save usall money in healthcare costs, lost work and school days, andcontribute to our quality of life.” The Air Resources Board is a department of the CaliforniaEnvironmental Protection Agency. ARB’s mission is to promote andprotect public health, welfare, and ecological resources througheffective reduction of air pollutants while recognizing andconsidering effects on the economy. The ARB oversees all airpollution control efforts in California to attain and maintainhealth based air quality standards.##### ======================================================================You are subscribed to the newsrel mailing list. To UNSUBSCRIBE lease go to http://www.arb.ca.gov/listserv/listserv.php and enteryour email address and click on the button "Display Email Lists."To unsubscribe, please click inside the appropriate box to uncheck itand go to the bottom of the screen to submit your request. You willreceive an automatic email message confirming that you havesuccessfully unsubscribed. Also, please read our listserve disclaimerat http://www.arb.ca.gov/listserv/disclaim.htm . The energy challenge facing California is real. Every Californianneeds to take immediate action to reduce energy consumption. Fora list of simple ways you can reduce demand and cut your energycosts, see our website at www.arb.ca.gov.====================================================================== © 2010 Microsoft Privacy Terms of use Account Feedback
Wow Jerry, This is truely great news. I'll be at the March 11th meeting. Rod Michaelson
Diesel emissions Talking with several manufacturers at recent ARA show in Orlando and there is concern over these regulations but no money right now to deal with it. There was some talk to going to gas engines and even electric with small diesel or gas generators for some equipment like aerials. New diesels will cost an additional $5000 for 40 to 100 hp engines. They can make them comply but it will cost.
All this has given me a new tact when dealing with customers who complain about a bill. Basically I tell them they elected the government and as long as they keep electing the same people, the cost of repair is always going to go up. Maybe they should think twice next time about who gets their vote.
I may be cynical but the faster we get rid of small business the faster we get rid of big government. With no tax dollars to spend its kind of hard to enforce rules that are impossible to comply with. Prepare for a collapse in the bond market and the government defaulting. Ugly but true.
After reading Jerry's last post the "wait and see what happens" might have been the smartest route. Thanks for keeping us up to date Jerry
Really sad. High handed govt decision making and lack of participatory approach with industry stakeholders on such an important n sensitive industry. Best of luck but need a really strong lobby forum
http://endangeredfreemarketcapitali.../when-are-we-going-to-wake-up-california.html Good article. Rod
Like it isn't hard enough to make a living in this bus. I just survived my two worst years in almost 20 years , great lets raise taxes in addition to the emissions that outta put me under for good
This link is very interesting reading on the air pollution laws we are all going to get sucked into for the next four years and on. http://enr.construction.com/products/equipment/2010/0414-Tier4StandardEquipment-1.asp It all starts at the end of this year on the Federal level. California really only jumped the gun on the feds to say they were first. The manufacturers are on board because they have to have some way to recoup all that research and development money they spent. In the article the manufacturers are saying the new engine will run less expensively but from my point of view that is not possible. More thoughts?
John, Manufacturing companies have to follow these Tier 4i/Stage 3a rules here in the US and in the EU at the same time. The regulation is the same. In California the intent of the Air resources board is to not just add new machines with cleaner engines but to make companies get rid of all Tier 0 machines now and Tier 1 machines in the near future and also install diesel particulate filters of up to 20% of a fleets horsepower every year. All this is what was going to needed to be to be compliant. A real inventory of the emissions emitted by construction equipment in the state by late 2009, (after all construction fleets were registered and each engine was placed in a huge database), the CARB is now reassessing what to do now with emission levels 200% less then expected from their estimates. A construction company, dealer, rental company or manufacturer does not have a clear path to emissions solutions. Companies have spent MILLIONS to become compliant and now seems to have wasted this money. CARB is a great example of why government doesn't work. Rod
Rod, The article is about Federal Tier 4 regulations being phased in starting January 1, 2011. The final requirements will be set for 2014 and all must comply. The results are the same except on a national level. What California jumped ahead on was federal laws that were going into affect anyway. Not only will diesel particulate filters and exhaust gas recirculation be required, but most manufacturers will also need to do diesel catalytic reduction which means carrying a hazardous material in trucks and equipment which may be as bad for the environment as any fuel soot emitted. So my point is that what happens in California is only a precursor of what is going to happen to the rest of the country anyway. We have started down that slippery slope to oblivion. The triple witching hour appears to be set for 2014.
John, I would agree that the rest of the country will catch up and those contractors who think, "it won't happen here" are kidding themselves. We have to stay proactive and keep a balance between clean air and using our equipment. It can be done but it won't be easy and it won't be cheap. The US and the EU are moving in unison starting this coming January and the FEDS are making sure that no more Tier 3 machines will come out of factories after January. You need a new machine, it is going to have one of those expensive Tier 4i engines and DPFs installed. Good luck to us all. We'll need it. Rod
I went on a CARB diet once , didn't work out so well , leave us alone if you want to cut emissions , great , introduce new equipment with the restrictions and let it phase in gradually all of us are barely getting by , I am finally getting my head above water after 2 brutal years , it will take me at least two years to recover. This year is starting out GREAT , just got another big job , hope everyone out there is doing good , I thing it's turning around , what say you ?
I find it interesting that 5 months before the general election the government agencies find all these funds. Our memories are short and when it all falls apart again in January the powers that be will have two more years to jerk us around. California is in debt $20+ billion dollars and are letting jobs out all over the place. With what money? Glad you are doing well, but don't get comfortable. Rod