Hello all, So I got hired by a local masonry company as a backhoe operator today. Im going to be starting a temp-to-hire and given good performance, will be permenant in a few weeks. My problem is that I havent had experience digging footers of any kind. I have about five years backhoe experience but its all yard clean up, spoil transfer, and non-complicated/specific trenching. I also have not been a full time operator and my dream has been to operate full time since I was young so this means alot to me. I have been watching videos regarding trenching and footings and I think I get the jist of it. Im also pretty confident in my ability to keep the bucket level during bringing the boom and stick in. What I feel I might have a problem with is integrating bucket curl smoothly in this action which I want to get good at to speed my production. My new boss made it clear that production is huge and to make it worse, he will be watching me next week. Id like to know any advise in digging footings, keeping production up, and just about anything else. This is a major move for me so I want to take advantage of this opportunity. Im hoping you guys can help. Btw, Ill be running Cat 420E's, 420F's, and 446B's with hammers. I have experience with Cat's so Im very comfortable in them. I just want to make sure my nerves dont get the best of me and screw this up. Thanks guys!
Well, the good news is digging footers is not hard, its just dirt, and sometimes rock. Its best to have a plan when you start, especially with a backhoe. You need to think everything thru so you can get to everything without double handling material. The quality of the finish on a footer dig depends a lot on the quality of the lay out. Measure 2x dig 1x. Worst thing you can do digging footings is to dig too deep. Footings must be on virgin preferably or properly compacted and tested fill. Wither you use a string line, a laser, or a visual transit, you must get it to the proper depth. One more thing super important thing, pay day is Friday. Its just a job, be early, ready to work, and pay attention, and you will do fine.
Remember the guys in rhe hole are the one who will keep you or fire you because the boss will ask them how you did since they are the one who will deal with your with what you leave behind so talk to them ask them if there is anything they like done and how they like things dug and im sure you will do fine
Hello D Grade, Upside down spray paint! Before you take a corner out, overspray a line out in both directions so you can line your bucket up once the hole is started. Dig level from top down. If you go to bottom every time your adding distance to your cycle. Make sure you have a 2 foot or more walk path between hole and spoils.
This may sound silly, but after you have dug for a bit jump down in there and look at the results. You will be amazed how different it can look from that perspective. And if you get a minute where you have nothing to do jump down and help the ground guys fine grade if necessary as they will usually gain a lot of respect. If there is nothing else to do grab the grease gun!
Sometime it depends on who is paying for the concrete. Some contractors let the customer pay for the concrete , so they are not real particular about over digging. If they bid the job including the concrete , 1" too deep and you will get fussed at. Being new to them , I think they will work with you for the first week or so as long as you are willing to show up and run the equipment. If you can run the machine , you will be fine. Don't get all tore up about it. If you are going to be digging footers from now on , two or three weeks and it will become second nature.
Thank you guys, this is really helping my nerves. Im not the type to sit around and let others work so Ill be happy to hop in and lend a hand as well as check my own work. Thank you DickJr, I certainly hope this is like alot of jobs I have done over the years and becomes second nature within a week or so. BTW, the job is a bid, so depth definitely matters to avoid using excess concrete. Now about digging technique. From what I understand, these footings will only be 18-24" deep. Should I stretch the boom and stick to full length (minus E-Stick) and cycle about half a length to better keep the work infront of me and in good sight? Also when should I start curling the bucket during the boom/stick bring-in cycle? Should I just let the teeth do the work digging each layer or would that be too much time? Should I mark my bucket to help get me familiar with depth? Ive though about marking the sides of the bucket facing me with a paint marker matching my desired depth (i.e: 24" footing depth required, so marking 24" from teeth/cutting edge to side of bucket). Worth doing or a waste of time? Thank you again guys, I appreciate it greatly.
You're ground man should be keeping you on grade, it'll be your job to get close and then trim the final bottom. Who will be doing layout? As been said up thread, planning your dig is important. Is the typical project a flat graded pad or will you be digging footings in basements? Also think about where you are putting the spoils. If your contract includes clean-up of the spoils, proper placement can make a big difference in the time it takes to clean up and the money it will cost. Currently working on a fast food site. The GC's guys were putting in the column piers and had a mini-ex hired to dig them. The column footings are all on the perimeter yet the operator piled all the spoils in the middle of the pad when he could've easily placed them outside the building line where they could have been cleaned up much easier. The hired machine came back the next day with a skid and moved all the spoils outside the pad and piled them in the parking lot for us to use as fill. Now the funny thing was we had discussed with the super beforehand that if they throw the spoils outside the pad we'd grab it with the dozer and spread it. Instead the GC paid for a 4 hour minimum with a skid to remove and pile the spoils adding time and money to the GC's bottom line. We were doing the site grading for a Mexican fast food joint (I use that term loosely with this chain ) a year or so ago. The plumber had a mini-ex inside the pad running his under slab piping. The mini was sitting where he could have easily thrown the spoils outside the forms in the parking lot but no, he piled them all up in the center of the pad.:duh Small steps in the planning stage add up over time. Don't just think of the task at hand but think about the next steps as well.
I agree completely CM, planning is everything. I suppose one of my downfalls in the mechanic world has been spending too much time planning. Its looking like this might actually benefit me in the digging world as long as I dont spend a great deal of time and have to do it more than once.
D Grade, Don't worry about speed, worry about being accurate (on grade). Speed will come. Step 1-layout your work and make sure it's square, check to see the diagonals are the same. Step 2-clearly mark your corners and building lines. Step-3 clearly mark your over-dig area on each side. We make a dashed line so we don't waste a lot of paint. Step 4-plan your dig, where to start and where to put the spoils. Step 5-start digging, don't worry about when to curl, it will come naturally. Stay slightly above your final depth and take out full buckets. Now, level your bucket and take out the last couple inches to get grade. One tip, have your grade man paint a dot wherever you are exactly on grade. This will give you a good visual reference. Now, back up and repeat. Step 6-breath. Good Luck!
Tucson? I used to live in Tucson. I work for a company that dug footings and poured concrete slabs for houses. We always used a trencher, very rarely a backhoe. A lot of good advice on this form, like monster76 said in post #3 the guys with the shovels will either love you or hate you. Talk with them. I had to dig out a corner by hand that the machine missed, I thought I was going to die digging that hard dry dirt/clay. Everyone called it Caliche. Nasty stuff! As far as technique goes, I think you already know what to do, you just need to relax and do what comes naturally. I don't think it was mentioned who is responsible for the machine, if it's yours, do a checklist inspection before you start the machine. The job is already yours, and everyone makes mistakes, just don't freak out, do your best and be on time. And watch out for the caliche. God bless!
You guys are awesome, thank you. I think Im prepared thanks to alot of the advise here and constant homework all weekend. Im hoping I get the hang of cleaning up the footings well, I really want to make an impact on the guys Ill be working with. Boom in/stick in/bucket uncurl is a manuever Ill need to work on for clean up, but hopefully I can get that down in a few hours of doing it.
Small world Yeah If the job works out Ill probably be moving to Chandler, Peoria, or Gilbert. Yeah we use backhoe's only and also use 446B with a hammer. We'll mainly be doing retaining wall footings from my understanding.
When you're using the hammer, be careful of using the drill shank like a lever to move the broken rock. It's very hard and will snap in two !! "been there as a bystander" (3 inch diameter shank on an excavator)
Good deal, ret. wall footings are usually easier than digging footers for buildings. They should be good to cut your teeth on.
Awesome, thats what I like to hear. Hoss I will definitely take heed to the advise, thank you!
Even though we own an excavator, we dig the vast majority of our 12" footings with a shovel! Up to buildings around 24 x 40. The concrete savings on precision shovel work normally equals the labor cost so it can be a wash. Plus depending on distance we can have them dug faster than hauling the machine around town. That goes out the window if you get into rock like ground or you need wide or deep sets.Retaining wall footings can get wide depending on the height of the wall. Normally they are 1/2 of the wall height. Good luck you will be fine, it is not really much different from laying pipe. Once you get the feel of the machine you will be fine. I would attempt to baby the machine. Nothing will **** me off faster than someone beating up my hoe.
Absolutely, I take alot of pride in the equipment I use. Im usually the one staying late to wash, empty out junk from other operators, and doing PM's.
Well, I didnt make it. Lasted longer than another guy but I just simply wasnt fast enough. Got to run a 446D with a hammer and that was pretty fun. Oh well, maybe next time. :-/
So they let you work one day then told you they didn't want you? That kind of sucks , I think a person should have a week minimum or no more than two weeks. Our normal time to dig a 1500 sq foot house , porches , garage and all takes about 3 to 4 hours.
D grade ... That's a good attitude in the face of disappointment. Keep your options open. Let them know if they get stuck without an opr. You'd like the chance to develop some speed. Besides, you didn't break anything. Speed at the price of broken equipment or hurt people is a poor trade-off. Speed comes with practice. I'd still not make it as a pro operator, but I'm a lot faster than when I first started. You will too.
We've all been there at one point. At least it was experience doing something you hadn't done before. Like Hosspuller said above, speed comes with practice.
I thought it was "a temp-to-hire and given good performance, will be permenant in a few weeks"? One day is not enough time to prove anything. +1 I would go back and see if they will give you another crack at it. I got a couple of good jobs by being persistent. Don't be a pest but show some interest in working for the company. I like your attitude. Your dream job is just around the corner.
Also, ask him what you did wrong. If its only about speed, ask him to give you some tips on how you can improve. Good luck and God bless!
They said they dont have time to train and that its all based on production. As much as Ive tried to keep a positive attitude about it, its actually taking a pretty hard toll on me. Just heartbreaking when no one wants to give you a chance. I think the most frusterating thing is that Ive asked countless operators how they started and if they ever went to school and only one of them has gone to an apprenticeship program. The rest learned on their own and I keep asking myself when is someone going to give me the chance to put some time on a hoe and get faster? Im skilled enough to get a job done but no one has the time to give me to get faster. Pretty frustrating and heatbreaking because this is my career dream.
Two pieces that are the hardest to learn to me are the backhoe and track loader. Keep looking around , with it being Spring , you may find a job with a local contractor even part time. Most everybody around here started in the ditch then got the chance to operate later on. Some of those guys should have kept a shovel in they're hand. You might even consider taking odd jobs on the weekend and rent a backhoe , the thing about this is you won't make much but will gain experience. I always thought that a person can't really be told how to run a machine , they have to learn it. Some guys I have dug footers for go about it a strange way but the end results are the same. The backhoe is so versatile , you need to learn more than footers anyway. One thing as well , some people can't be satisfied.
Thanks DickJr, honestly I thought I was doing decent. I didnt really get a chance to show what I could do. I got stuck trying to dig out rock at the start of the footer. My nerves got the best of me because I had the boss and seven others watching. Another guy hopped on and he got to start on the next section of the footing, he was really good, then the last guy hopped on and he was going way too fast and digging the footers too deep. He got let go and didnt handle it as well as I did. Anyways, I think you guys are right and I should have been given a week to let my nerves settle and get my speed up.
Unless you don't care for this company after this you might ask them if you can be a laborer with the hope of graduating to operator. As Dickjr. stated many of us started that way.
Not to be brash but it seems as if Arizona only hires Mexicans for labor and I assume that is to pay minimum wage. This is what Ive observed with most companies here. I also know most started that way but I dont want to be stuck in a labor role for a long time, Im pretty tired of working for a living not doing what I want to do. I think what Im going to have to do is go to school and obtain a CDL to make myself more valuable. As Much as I want to start pulling sticks now, Im just tired of getting shot down and not given a chance to show the skill and passion I have now. :-(
With only high school experience it took 3-4 years for someone to hire me as a beginner machinist. And after 29 years and several jobs later I am finally making a good wage. You can not expect to get your dream job right off the bat. Everyone has to put their time in doing something they don't want to do until an opportunity comes along. Yes it is very frustrating! But these things build character. Be patient and keep a good attitude. Its your life and its up to you what road to take. But I can only say it wasn't until I put my trust in JC when things started turning for the good.
Well said Blueboy. I had an interview with PCL today, they are hiring for equipment operators on their Horseshoe Dam project here in AZ. Submitted an application and background check so I guess we'll see what happens. Looks like I will probably get a decent amount of operating in but itll most likely be mainly labor.
That sounds like a terrible company to work for you should be glad you didn't get hired because it wouldn't improve any after the first day you would get faster and they would just want more
Thanks Jonas, I look back now thinking the same thing.