...for water,utilities,minerals.....whatever. What are your guys thoughts on the practice? There is quite the debate going on by a bunch of armchair experts over on another site as to wether its a real technique or pure bs. whaada ya know?
Not familiar with the practice, what exactly does it entail?
Well I'll throw in my $.02. I have used a 14-16" piece of copper ground wire to locate utilities for years. I had a grisly old plumber show me many moons ago and he used it all the time to locate existing utility lines. Heres the way he taught me how to do it - Take the wire and bend it in a 90 degree angle, then with your hand in the thumbs up position with your fingers curled back towards your palm, let the wire (the 90 degree bend part) rest on your index finger. Walk slowly across the ground, paying close attention to when the wire starts to "move". It will point in the direction that an underground line is running. It's fairly accurate and will locate power/phone cable, concrete pipe, ductile pipe, plastic conduit, copper tubing and pretty much any kind of line running underground. Many folks have laughed at the process until they see it work. Personally I don't know the science behind how it works but it just does. I think it has something to do with polarity.:beatsme It's hard to explain the process in words, it's better to see/learn in person with someone that knows how to do it. It's not a replacement for One Call but when you are trying to find a sewer lateral without a reliable set of as-builts, it's a handy tool. When I was working on a project in Costa Rica, it was very useful device since there is no such thing as calling in a locate and as-builts are unheard of..
CM, if I didn't have a good deal of respect for you, I would call bs. I have heard of this all my life, but this is the first time I have heard it first hand. You have really done this? I have always believed that physics didn't support these claims. But, I know there is stuff that just is, whether explainable or not. Do you believe that it has anything to do with the person doing it, or can anyone do it? For instance, my brother can't wear a wristwatch. If he puts on your watch, it will soon be inaccurate. If you take it back, it will slowly regain it's accuracy. Cutting Edge, what other forum is this discussion in? If you don't want to post it here, please PM me.
I can do it.... can't say how it works... bent welding rods... or wire from the flags... some will call bs.. but it finds what ever... I used to work it a plant that had only as built or their best guess as to what was there.. it helps especially when the as builts are 10 feet off...
Thanks for the kind words Mitch (and not calling me a witchdoctor ). Like I said previously, I don't know how it works but it just does. I have been using this technique for 20 years. It only works for me with a copper wire as the "dousing rod", a normal residential ground wire works best. I like to keep one or two in the tool box for this purpose. I can sort of understand this finding other copper wire but what really puzzles me is it will detect a concrete pipe, ADS plastic, aluminum wire, plastic conduit and a rubber water hose as well.
I can say from personal experience and reliable sources that there is definitely something beyond what standard science recognizes, (although some of the crazies in quantum physics are starting to catch on) and that some people are more able to sense/use/control "it" than others. I usually refer to it simply as "the force". (this term and usage predates Star Wars by the way!) It is in the same area as the theory of "Dark Energy" that is starting to show up in more "respectable" research. (the difference between dark energy and Chi is similar to the difference between the energy in sugar before and after you eat it. Same stuff, different presentation.) The guy with the hinky watch for instance just needs to balance his energy levels a bit. Think of a sparkplug wire with bad insulation... As far as Dowsing goes, yes, it works great for some people, not at all for others, and sometimes changes in accuracy. There are some that have fancy machined dowsing rods that they will put a gold nugget in and pull out a map of Alaska and claim to be able to find gold. That is not possible even according to the expanded laws of nature that I have learned about! I do not use Dowsing for this reason: It is not reliable. Even if I got as good as CM, I would never know when it was going to fail me and get me in trouble. There are too many unknown factors and "outside" influences involved that I know about so that I can't trust it. Now, that said, the same results can be achieved without using any bent wires or extra gizmos, but it requires some training in the skills that were in normal everyday usage for many of the primitive tribes around the world, and including some of the Native US tribes, but that have been lost through disuse as we got soft from civilization. It also removes most of the external influences that can affect a mechanical device. And I still wouldn't trust it to keep me out of trouble! (yet) Yes, I am crazy, but you would be too if you had seen what I have seen and done! Ben~
I have used it to find waterr lines and sewer lines in plastic. as long as their is water flow it works for me. I will stick to my electronic locator for power, phone, and cable though.
I used to work for a guy that used that technique or whatever you want to call it and had a purpose built tool with a handle on it like a beam torque wrench and I think it telescoped too.I honestly don't remember if it worked or not because I discounted the the whole routine as hokey pokey and proceeded with the dig as though I did not have any information to go by. I am pretty sure that it had to be held in the proper hand and for all I know he needed to wear the correct underwear to insure success. I would expect to see this stuff at a carnival. I am not here to say that it does not work for you guys but it is smoke and mirrors to me.Ron G
I have used it and have seen it done many times. Have no idea how or why, just know it works. As of a few years ago when in Texas they were still Witching for water. The well driller in one area would have an older woman come Witch for water. There is a lot of granite there and water is scarce, she seemed to have the touch.
This is almost exactly how I got started on this, except it was the cable guy. I laughed in his face, he was there locating his service wires and asked if I wanted him to locate the water line. He marked it and stayed while we dug to find it. He was very close. So i had him find it in another spot. Then I appologized to him and asked where to get the wire to make some. He went to his truck and clipped the flags off a few of his markers and bent the wire on a 90 and grinned. I have been using them ever since, he still brings it up when he is locating for us.
A property owner askd me about this last week. He described how a guy had used two bent wires to locate the gas line along the right of way we were going to be digging in. It was the One Call guy... I kid you not.
my dad used to do it with a Y shaped apple limb. saw him walk across the yard and he could not hold the small limb. it twisted the bark off in his hand. i tried it and absolutely NOTHING happened. no answers here but it worked for him.
I've done it a few times with great results, can even get a close quess of how deep the water is. I use the 2 rod method. I have heard of using an apple tree shaped like a Y ??
I do it all the time with two bent wires. When they cross, you're over the buried line. I can detect buried electrical, sewer, natural gas, or water but I can't tell you where to drill your well. I have found that many people can do this if they are shown what to do. Any unbelievers should give it a try. You'll probably be amazed. I know I was.
I went to dig up an electrical conduit for a fairly large electrical contractor in Tulsa one time. This was in a large parking lot (Best Buy). After we had dug about 5 holes in the asphalt, finding nothing (they had a Ditch Witch branded locater), I went to the truck and found some marking flags. In a matter of about 45 minutes, I had found it, we busted the pavement out, dug down and found it about 4 feet deep. We always call in locates, but in many cases where we can't find the line where it ends up getting marked, we have found them by this method. I can't explain how it works, but it does. I know some guys that have better luck with bare #8 copper wire (tracer wire). I always have best luck with the wire from marking flags. It helps if there is little to no wind. I wouldnt trust it, just to walk down the ROW with a couple of wires hoping to find any lines in the path, but it's pretty handy if you know there is a line.
I believe it. The difference in "self-dousing" and the One Call guy doing it is he takes the liability. The thicker copper wire works better for me. I have tried the wire from the marking flags but didn't get very good results. Funny story: I had a very good 10th grade Physics teacher and we had a small class. Most of the kids were pretty smart ( Digger insert comment here ), so we would finish up course work and have time to research/investigate other things in the realm of physics. One day I brought up this "dousing" technique that can locate lines underground. The teacher politely called BS and challenged me to show the class. The next day I brought my wire in for "show and tell". The classroom had a long lab table with a sink in the front of the room, obviously there were underground pipes. I proceeded to pace the classroom locating the drains and supply lines. The teacher, still skeptical, said there was no way of knowing if I was right or not (didn't have a locator handy...:tong) So we continued testing this theory. I was blindfolded and they placed an extension cord on the floor and I proceeded to locate the line with accuracy, several times. The teacher was flabbergasted and didn't have any established scientific explanation. The best "out of the box" explanation we could come up with was that it had something to do with the polarity of the dousing rod and the pipe/wire/conduit.:beatsme I have found that if you hold the wire in your right hand, it will always turn left. If you hold it in your left hand the wire will turn right. If you have a wire in each hand they will point towards each other.
It works for me. My dad taught me how to hold the wires and what to look for when I was 16. We use the two wire method and you can tell exactly ( well maybe 90%) where the line is. I'll give you my personal reason why it works, believe it or not. When a line ( or anything for that matter) is installed in the ground, a person disturbs the soil and the natural magnetizim of the soil. What the rods are picking up is the break in the magnetizm field that is immited. Call it hokey pokey but it works. We have used it for many years to locate graves and had very accurate results. Had a self proclaimed expert tell me one time that he could even tell what sex the buried person was by how much the rods crossed. He showed me one time and it worked, kind of wrecked my magnetism theorie all to he!@. As far as the forked apple branch....... it works for my dad but not for me. my dad has been called many times to 'witch' a well, even by the well drillers themselves. sorry for the book!
It works for me too, not that I have ever needed to find anything. Just used it for fun and curiosity. My dad and his brother both could do it. Dad was a water driller for awhile, don't know if he located his own drill sites. That would have been in the 1930's so it may have been the most scientific method back then. They both had trouble with any watches they wore. The forked stick works, they recommended a wilga (Native aussie tree) tree forky stick. I have a small book that a dowser wrote on the subject (can't find it :beatsme) which had a lot of info on how to do it and 'read' the rods. Also you can get the depth of underground water, not sure about other stuff or water in pipes, by the number of times the dowsing rod 'nods' up and down when you have located the water. Count the number of nods and that is the depth of the water. If you are using two rods and they both swing the same way that indicates the direction of the water flow. Coal will give much the same readings as water. I must go and get a forkie stick and go witching for that book. .
i will have to say that it works for me even though that i think that it is scientifically imposable.
The few times I saw believers try it they failed to come close.
I have used it with some success. My father is a great believer and i have spent many hours, sitting in a idling backhoe, watching him walk all over a field looking for tile. Its pretty easy, and with practice i think you can get quite good at it. And when i works its amazing. We use the bent wire method as well.
Well over here we call it divining can't do it myself but seen it done for wells, on many an occasion. Here a link. divining
dunno why but it works... actually keep a set in my truck.
I used the technique today to find a sewer lateral at a house. I didn't have a copper wire but instead used some tie wire, it worked but I seem to get better results from copper.:beatsme
Have your Dad or someone that can use the Y shaped branch put their hand on your shoulder once. I can do the 2 wire thing but not the branch, one of my friends that can use the branch walked with me once and laid his hand on my shoulder and I thought my wrists were going to break. jr
I thought it was nonsense until my builder picked up a metal rod and started doing it. It works, for reasons I can neither explain nor understand.
Works for me too. Training makes it work bether. Learned it in the Red Cross, where we used it to lokate people burried in snow slides. You consentrate on a spesific person, and just start walking along the slide and then the rods starts pointing at the person. Have used it to find all types of stuff. The funniest thing was a plastic bag of sausages. We where stationed at a cabin without a fridge, sausages was burried in the snow somewhere outside the cabin. A crew before us did it, without making any markings. I just suggested to search with my rods. There was some guys there that where realy frightened with the result. I can also sit in a room and make the rod point at any person by consentration.(or hided stuff) When my rods cross completely, i know what i search for is just right under my toes. Then i "neutralize" my rods by straightening the rods down along the ouside of my feet.(arms down too) Then i start walking, when they cross completely, the depth is the distance from first hit to second. Some dosen't need rods or a stick to find stuff. They feel it in their body... I also got rods with a square bump down on at the end. Like bent an inch down, inch forward, inch up, and a inch forward. That "bump" filters away stuff u don't want to find.(water, cables and stuff) Nice when u search for humans and stuff u want to concentrate to find.
My dad could do it and so can I - using one wire or two. The old timers could even judge the distance to drill (for water) by holding a wire over the toe of their boot, and counting how many times the wire taps it.
This is funny. I had a customer who di dthis to tell us where to dig, i would always make a joke at him. One day he taught me how to do it and it works. We use is almost everyday. I use the bend utility marking flags. Another use is when you use one wire to locat your water main, then take two wires, one in each hand. walk along the pavement on top of the pipe, parrallel, when the two wires cross, thats where your leak is, the will cross at a large accumulation of water. One of these days Im gonna you tube it in action. you can judge depth be after the wire turns, stomp one foot slow and hard, as you stomp you will notice the wire turn back the other way. Count the stomps and thats how many feet your line is. I laugh at myself typing this, it works, im not crazy.......
I use two bent wires from location flags. I cut two handles out of 1/2" gas service. wires turn in for gas, out for water. weird, but it works. I only use it if Im stumped, and my locator strikes out.