My father is in the excavating business. I work with him and I farm a little too. I am interested in expanding into being a drainage contractor. I have talked to many different guys in the business and have gotten different perspectives. Am looking for some info/advice on a dozer to pull a plow. Obviously pipe size/depth is an important factor in how much tractor you need. When I was a kid we had a D8H that dad left on a big dirt dump we were running. It was a great old hog. I was seriously looking into a mounted plow on the back of an older dozer. Our biggest dozers now are 2 750 Deeres. They are to small to pull a plow. I was wondering opinions on D8H or D8K. Dad said the 8H had less power and not as heavy of final drives as the 8K. Anybody that has pulled anything with these types of machines what is your experience in a hard pull? How would they do on a contour? I would like to try and get started on the cost effective end having <100K invested in plow tractor and plow setup. Would a D7H with Diff Steer out pull a D8K in this application? Any thoughts appreciated. Thanks
Not a chance. An 8K will have a 7H outmanned by 75+ hp and 20k pounds. They may be closer in actual production than those numbers might suggest, and the diff-steer will definitely be advantageous on a plow, but if you've been eyeing an 8K, I think the 7 will fall pretty short. A much better option is going to be a 8N.
Shimmy1. Thanks. I know in a straight pull the 8K is way more tractor. I guess I was wondering if I am pulling around a curve will I be disappointed with the 8K. I agree that an 8N would be ideal but I am not sure I can afford that option right now. I was looking at a Deere 850 which most of our equipment now is Deere/Hitachi from a dealer relationship standpoint. But dollar for pound of horsepower and the ability to find parts I thought an older 8K would be a decent option. We have a lot of 2-4 percent slope in my area so pretty rolling and hilly. Good heavy soil with clay subsoil for the most part some timber/clay top soils too. No sand.
If the grousers have very much wear on an 8K you will be very disappointed pulling in a curve. Especially if the plow is very deep. That is when differential steering really is an advantage. I never have pulled a tile plow but I have put many hours on 8k's and 8N's.
I’ve been dozer shopping recently. (Don’t ask why lol). There are some deals out there on 8N’s and even larger 9’s if you have a way to move them. I agree a 7 will just end up irritating you. Oh and from a repair standpoint the high track machines are waaaay easier if you have to get into finals or steering brakes/clutches. Even trans and pump work is easier. We all know stuff is gonna break.
How about something like this? https://www.machinerytrader.com/lis...-sale/23539617/2004-komatsu-d155ax-5?CTRY=USA Even though this might be a little out of your price range, this would be a great machine based on what they say about it. https://www.machinerytrader.com/lis...pment/for-sale/27528145/1994-cat-d8n?CTRY=USA
I know nothing about plowing besides having done it a few times. My friends for sometime plowed with 6's or 7's ag cat and clutch machines. They if memory serves me plowed one way one year and the opposite the next to try to equalize their wear issues. If one is to plow with an 8 will the trans take the heat and will the rollers take the side load?
He is talking about pulling a tile plow, not a lot different from pulling a ripper.
Thanks Shimmy, I had envisioned something like 70' towner.
Looks right at home behind that 9.
There is a guy around my area that has a bron plow mounted behind a 850 deere and gets along great he did add some weight to the front. Also has bolt on grouser
The size of pipe he is going to be plowing will be the biggest factor in this equation. If he's only plowing 4-6", a 7H will more than likely handle it just fine. Eight inch and larger will be tough, if not impossible over a few feet in depth I'm thinking, unless his soil pulls easy.
Yea that's very true if your getting paid by the foot you don't want to spend a bunch of time pre ripping just to put 4" in.
What does the soil profile look like in your area. I can tell you with certainty, the soil type governs what you need to pull with more than anything else. If you are in deep black dirt, you can easily pull 12" pipe 5' deep with a 6R no problem. As your clay content goes up, so does the pulling force, until you get to prehistoric clay that will bring an 8R to its knees. Turning is always an issue if its wet. In these cases what works really well is hook a 750 on the front and use it to steer. Let the plow just pull straight forward. You make good progress that way.
If you are looking to add a machine specifically for plowing, take a look at getting a Bron Self propelled 550 or something. It would have the weight distributed better for pulling. If you have potential other uses for a Huge dozer then maybe go that route but don't go buy a dedicated dozer for that specific work.
He doesn't appear to have more than $100k to spend, and you aren't going to buy a worn-out POS for that.
Yeh that's true.......
Wouldn't a Bron self propelled be a $250,000-300,000 machine even used? It doesn't read like he's got that kind of $. Look at that- I type too slow, Shimmy1 beat me to it.
Idk how much you farm or what kind of tile jobs you are going after but a big tractor you could use on the farm and put a plow on it. I pull a soilmax with a quad track and get along fine until the 8" or 10" boot goes on then I need a Dozer on the front. But I doubt a Dozer alone would pull it anyway.Just throwing out other options
you are looking at kind of a niche market , and you don't want to lay out a pile of cash and not get your money back. not as fast as a plow but what about a chain or bucket wheel trencher to start with , you can find them reasonably priced and get started in the business and see how it goes and then upgrade to a nice plow.. where I live back in the 1960's and 1970's there 3 bucket wheel machines and they put millions of feet of tile in
Between my uncle and myself we farm about 5-600 acres. Biggest tractor between us is a Deere 8320. Cannot justify a bigger high $ farm tractor. Also cannot justify spending 3-600k on a Wolfe or Bron plow starting out. Looking for a step into the market for a lesser investment. I would be willing to even consider going up to $150K depending on technology a machine has. We have all the excavating support equipment. I am looking for a lower entry cost machine. I am not sure I want a trencher due to cost per foot. Watglen I see you have a D6R with a plow listed under your name. I am in an area with pretty good dirt, clay subsoils, but a fair amount of roll and slope. From what I know in my immediate area most lateral work is 4 or 6 inch. With 8 being a fairly common main size. Due to natural drainage from hills we aren't typical putting in huge mains, if I did every now and then I could dig them in with a hoe. How does your 6R handle plowing 4-6-8 size pipe in average conditions? I realize that is a loaded question because everybodies dirt pulls different.
we went from a fiat 21c and d8k on plows to a d8t, I will never go back once I tried the diff steering. One of our biggest reasons for not going self propelled was service, if we need a part its there and winter comes we send it to our local cat dealer they go through it and we head out. In our soils its more about weight than floatation.
What i would do is contact bron. They have a line on pretty every new or used plow on the planet. I guarantee you they have a unit in your price range looking for a buyer. Someone somewhere is looking to upgrade but needs a buyer first.
We got the neighbor to help us. The 8 did all the work, his tractor was just a hydraulic power supply. It didn't have enough hydraulic power to outdo the dozer so we had to letup on the dozer and let the case pull some. I want to mount a plow on our dozer and possibly just tow a tractor for the hydraulics.
Sorry it took so long, didnt see your questions. We were always really impressed with the 6r. I would say in medium soils down to 5' you would be too. Where the 6 falls short is when you have traction, power becomes the issue. We would routinely lug it down to the point it was barely moving, for 15 minutes straight or longer. Watched the trans temp, but it was never a problem. In good traction conditions, more power will propel you faster, but you still get there. In poor traction, you will be hooking on no matter what you have really. We have a Bron now, put a 6 in front of it all the time. In your soil a bron would fly. If you have fairly rolly land, you benefit from small mains, and nothing deep. That is in your favour. Just remember, 90% of all the tile ever installed was put in with a dozer plow. The self propelled are good for making the job less taxing on you and your help, but the dozer still gets it done. Forget any idea of anything on tires Call bron, ask for Matt.
The tractor has to be contributing some. It's not a small tractor.
just bought a Johnson pull type going on a jd 8430 mfwd I have a Cat D6r to help pull if I need it the cat has to much oil flow to run the lazer system. wont get to use it till next fall. said jd is better to run the plow
I suppose it did contribute some but it certainly wasn't spinning, the only time the dozer slowed down was when he cut the power to one track to turn to the west. His hydraulics wouldn't hold grade they just kind of kept going deeper . It kept fall but it got deeper than it need to be. This isn't for a field tile it is for a perimeter drain around the house in background. This was the first run we ever used the dozer on. The neighbor has only had a TD 15 on the front never one as big as ours. Ours is a farm dozer, we can drive it between our farms other wise we would have a smaller one its kind of expensive to move.