My pa bought this machine anbout 2014, for a contract needed ann AWD grader, and it’s had a gob of issues keeping the cutting edge bolts tight. They are 5/8 bolts and there’s every other hole drilled. So I got it in the shop and started poking holes. I got a box full of bits and even some that I have sharpened myself for hard steel. (Down to about a 110° point. The first 3-4 holes went well and now I think I have run into work hardening ? Can’t penetrate it with a common bit, or a 110° to just make a pilot hole. I tried putting torch to it - but I poured water on it and I’m thinking that was wrong now.
Try an annular cutter. For sh$ts and giggles.
Yeah for sure, I been looking at them. Just not convinced it’s worth the money and hear of people breaking them all the time ?? Still got to drill a pilot hole right?
No, just need a center punch mark or a slight divot from a small drill bit. Annular cutters use a centering pin. If you're drilling through a guide hole you wouldn't need the centering pin. I've never heard of them breaking. I'd try heating it orange hot and just let cool on it's own first. Then a drill bit might work with a good cutting fluid. Heating and quenching would typically make the steel harder.
Find your annular cutter on ebay or amazon if you have time to wait carbide even better ohh they will break but not all that often usually when things start to move around if you have never used them you will fall in love Also will need a weldon shank chuck for your drill These solid carbide drill work great to keep around but are brittle again I get them on ebay https://www.mcmaster.com/products/solid-carbide-drills/carbide-drill-bits-for-hardened-steel/ Cheap thing to try is carbide masonry bits You will never get enough heat into that mass of steel let it slowly cool for annealing and yes putting water on it was even worse
I second Jonas302, carbide tipped annular cutter. I was boring some holes in cast steel, which is a bugger to work with from the get go, using standard annular cutter with plenty of cutting fluid then suddenly it made a sound and quit cutting. Tried using new cutter, same thing. Tried cobalt cutter, nope, wouldn't move even a fraction. Steel had hardened at that spot and nothing was going through. Last resort, purchased a carbide cutter, damn thing went through it like it was butter. I'm convinced.
They will only break with improper use. Atleast from my experience
Pretty much every time I touch a drill bit its used improperly including what the op is doing after all its heavy equipment repair not manufacturing bits are quite expendable when you look at the overall value of repairs done
Yep it doesn't matter what it takes if you need a hole
I bought a cheap 36mm (1.4") annular cutter and a cheap Chinese magnetic drill and had no problem easily poking 8 holes in 50mm (approx 2") high tensile plate. This plate equates to about T1 tensile strength. Take it slow and use plenty of coolant. The cheap Chinese drill even came with its own coolant bottle and feed hose into the centre of the drill.
Ive seen all that Vevor stuff and just assumed its junk. I will look into that, its not like I need it to build skyscrapers just to fix my old yellow stuff. Thanks
Yeah Roger that! I think we all try to stay between the ditches but damn its a drill bit!
I’ll have a look at those options thanks a bunch
I haven’t tried putting a foot pedal on the motor yet to change speed but was a thought.
I forgot to add I acquired the annular cutter off eBay, but it's Chinese-made, anyway.
Sooooo there’s a couple drills floating around for sale within a reasonable distance - would you guys buy a FEIN slugger that’s drilled two holes for $750 Or a Hougen that’s been used a little bit for $500 ?? Any issues with either of them?
I have a old hougen. Its single speed, fixed base, and a drilling SOB. Well used when I bought it. I have broken annular cutters. I have abused tools in the past and probably will continue to do so in the future. From everything I've read, the FEIN stuff is pretty nice german built equipment. That hougen with a swivel base is a pretty hot rod tool also. Both are priced right for used, especially if either comes with some bits. I think the last cutters I bought were around $100 each.
We have a old one with variable speed and turque a newer evolution and a fein short slugger also a milwaukee battery one. Out of the bunch the battery one is ok but I really like the short slug if all I need is to drill a hole with a cutter. If a hole saw is the tool you need the speed control. The battery is 2 speed works ok with smaller drill bits I haven't tried it with a hole saw yet
I bought a second hand fein. German made. Great quality as you would expect. For hard stuff, I have used cheap two flute masonary hammer bits that I sharpened on a diamond wheel.
Grader blade is not Like t-1 or any other Hi-tensile IMHO. it's work hardening manganese rich steel. It doesn't even oxy torch cut very well.
Depends on the grader blade. Some are high carbon and some are a special alloy steel. The black looking blade in the 1st post looks like high carbon. Use lots of lube and try it. As far as the mag drills, they are both top of the line. The Fein is nice because it's smaller and lighter (great for vertical or even overhead drilling) but the Hougen will have a bigger capacity if you ever need it. If you have a need for more holes, I'd buy them both. They're a fraction of the price of new, especially the Hougen. I would expect they must have some cutters with them or could be negotiated in the price.
I like the Fein for how light and handy it is.
When I worked at the mall they had a smaller Fein mag drill with a std. chuck for drilling smaller holes. It was great because it was easy to carry when we had to climb up on the roller coaster or other amusement ride. A larger mag drill would have been a royal pain. When I worked at a shop that made winch trucks they had a smaller 90 deg. Hougen (or maybe Jancy) for drilling truck frames. It was awesome and would fit between the tires and frame. Went through high tensile frames like a hot knife through butter. Jancy is another good brand but I think got bought out by somebody else, Fein maybe but can't remember. They used a different mount from the weld on shank style most other brands use for their annular cutters. They were called Jancy Slugger annular cutters.
All the cutting edges I've dealt with in the last 50 years have been high carbon boron alloy steel. This steel has manganese, boron, chrome and silicon in it. The boron increases the ability of the steel to be hardened. Once cutting edge steel has been through the hardening process you need some pretty high-tech drilling equipment to drill holes in it.
Well I picked up a Hougen 904 for $500 off marketplace. Came with one cutter but it’s 13/16. Got a cutter from Airgas since they are next door. I am looking forward to some time this weekend busting some holes in a moldboard.
I bet it does, I’m just drilling the frog to get all the bolts put in there.
Frog is probably 1050 steel. That's what Champion moldboards are. Should drill like butter.
It did not drill like butter in the middle of the board it’s so hard a new 1/4” cobalt drill bit won’t even scar it. Just boogers the tip of the bit. I’m not a greenhorn by any means but have not run into this type of work hardening before.
You decent with plasma cutter? I've used mine to make holes. I'm sure the "precision" would give a machinists the sweats, but it got the job done vs burning up drill bits. One project I recall was in leaf springs, putting holes for wear pads.
That's very odd. Did it drill fairly easily at the beginning? Were you trying with an annular cutter? You could try heating it red hot and letting it cool and see if it will drill easier. Annular cutters go through high tensile truck frames very easily so should work good on a moldboard. I wonder if it work hardened from a dull bit or cutter? I've had that before with drill bits. Any way you could try from the other side? If nothing else works but you have the outline of the hole partly drilled, then you could use a torch or plasma cutter to finish it. The nice thing is the holes don't have to be real precise just for bolting the cutting edge on. If the bolt fits through you're good.
Before I got an annular mag drill, I just had a 3/4 and a 1/2 mag drill I have used most of my life to drill holes in heavy equipment and truck frames, oilfield stuff, steel buildings, etc. I went thru my bin of 20-30 used drill bits and saw nothing less than what looked like an angry beaver had gnawed the ends off what was there for tooth picks. So I went to town with my checkbook and got a half a dozen brand new cobalt bits each in 1/4” and 5/8” and jugs of tap magic cutting oil from local hardware store, (precision twist drill) brand bits. I got back to the shop and took and made a drill centering tool out of an old broken plow bolt head, and used it inside the cutting edge (with several bolts in the holes) to start pilot holes and drill the rest of the mounting holes. First bit drilled 3 holes no problem. Went up to 5/8 and while it stalled on break through it still made short work of the job. Maybe like you said - drilled like butter. I moved over to start on the opposite cutting edge working center pair then outward to the far left edge of the moldboard and right smack in middle of the frog, thought I could just throw a new bit in there but it was cutting good so I should just see how far the 1st bit will go. Would not even make a single chip. I took bit out and sure enough it’s boogered up so put in a new 1/4” bit and smacked the center punch on it one more time and go to put some pressure on the bit and I’ll be damned it smeared another bit - ruined the tip. So I moved over another hole and tried another new bit, never made a chip and boogered it right away. Had to check if maybe the drill was going backwards and nope, going forwards. I just wasted $60 bucks worth of bits so I stopped there and started looking for answers. I since got an annular cutter set and a used Hougen mag drill to try to get this done. But the shop is full of Volvos with blown out articulation pins that are higher priority. Waiting on pins to get here…. ♂️
The thought had crossed my mind just use the cutting edge as a template but I tried to get a tip in there to follow the profile and I would have about a 1/4” hole because of the torch tip offsets. Would need to make a cutting guide that would be bored for the plasma torch tip offset and then it would be cake to cut them out. So for now I’ll just get these cutters in soon and see what happens.
That's bizarre that it started off good and then wouldn't do anything but dull the drills. I'd try the annular cutter with cutting oil on some new holes and see how it goes. The holes that gave problems I'd heat up and let cool. I drilled 1045 round bar easily with standard drill bits.
I've made these for on location jobs. I draw the cup dia. & the kerf width, and then make a template to be laser/plasma cut out.
One place i worked at we always used 5/8” through-hardened alloy edges on the graders. No drilling those. Oxy/acetylene or plasma cutter. Not that hard to do a reasonable job but the heat upsets the heat-treating around the holes and may lead to cracking or breaking. Occasionally i used to have to make holes in bucket corner bits with the same material and used oxy/acetylene. It was faster and less hassle
Here is a theory for you check closely to see if the frog has been repaired especially means you said it was to the middle it got hard someone may have replaced it with different material the old bush fix was to weld on a old cutting edge to replace the frog, some snowplow edges have plain round holes as torch and welder was much more available than good drilling equipment I have added holes to CAT moldboard and definitely not made of butter and rightly so
Champion moldboards (and I'd guess many others) were 1050 steel and an annular cutter would go through 1050 like butter. If the moldboard/frog had been repaired could explain why it's difficult or impossible to drill.
A repaired frog could also explain why the holes are missing.