Well I was taking an injection pump out, while leaving the drive gear in the front cover, well to add insult to injury, as I took off the nut holding the gear on the pump, apparently the washer under the nut, was stuck to the nut and as I pulled the nut out, the washer fell off and dropped into the gear train inside the front cover....................................after some considerable amount of swearing, a few moments to reflect and mellow out, then ponder, look over the entire situation and not knowing if the washer is copper or steel, I've come to conclusion I'm somewhat screwed. Anyone been in my place, and not wanting to remove the radiator, fan and water pump assembly, and strip the entire front of the engine down to the gear train and take the front cover off, I'm not coming up with much. I've shined a flashlight and inspection mirror to view the front cover, there is no small inspection hole or plate towards the bottom of the front cover anywhere I can find. I could take off the cover the injection pump bolts to, tie the gear in the front cover, take off the cover to remove the injection pump drive gear, while leaving the gear in place, and try a flexible magnet to fish around in the dark inside the front cover and hope the washer is steel and can be picked up, doubtful I'll see anything in the front cover with anything but a flexible lighted inspection camera I could buy at home depot or one of the big box stores. The engine is in a komatsu mini zero tail swing excavator, its a four cylinder komatsu/cummins, if anyone needs it, I could get the model number, but off the top of my head I don't recall which one it is. Any ideas or suggestions?? Thanks in advance
Is it due for an oil change? I'd take off the pan before even thinking about messing with the front cover, but I don't know the "geography" of that engine? Do you have one of those "pickle grabbers" with four claws that are spring loaded and close when they retract? they're a little smaller than the flexible magnets that I've seen and they could grab a washer IF it was on edge.
I'd feel around with a flexible magnet and if you don't get it I would drop the pan. I would guess that the washer is steel but I don't know for sure
I would bet a case of my favorite brew the washer is steel, but I feel your pain, that sucks.
I have had to remove the front cover and pans on several engines with customers doing /pulling there pumps and dropping the lock washer then asking for help to finish a repair. The washer should be steel. If you have a harbor freight close by I would pick up a small bore camera and take a look down the gear train, may get lucky and see it. I bought one several years ago, they work and are pretty limber. They have several from 85-190.00. I feel your pain also with a simple job that turns into a nightmare, hope you have it at your shop and not a job site.
Just bought a nifty little extendable flashlight with a gooseneck flexible head with a magnet around the LED bulb off the front and also one on the back at Jesco the other day--$16 .Might be useful here.
I did something similar pulling the injection pump on a ships generator once, knocked the key off the injection pump shaft and down it went. We checked around with one of the above mentioned inspection cameras, couldn't see it. Cranked the engine by hand a few times and decided to leave it. Generator ran fine until someone sank the boat. I would drop the pan and try to find it though
Dropped a 9/16 x3/8 drive socket into the gear cover on the back of a GM engine on a dark night at the end of a long day. Customer said just leave it. It will be in the oil pan. It wasn't. Made quite some noise when we fired it up. Long trip back to town to get a magnet and a bit of fishing and I got out 2 perfect 1/2s of the socket and not another chip of anything else. Never heard anything more about it so figured I really lucked out that time. Was sure glad it was the owner that said to leave it and not my idea. d.d.
When doing cams on a D10T I dropped a tiny washer down the rear gear train and got that sick feeling. Lucky enough I had access to an inspection camera and after 45 min of searching I found it and managed to get a magnet on it. As others have said 1. Camera works good (maybe you can rent one from a rental company) 2. I imagine the oil drain plug is fairly small so getting a magnet to fish the bottom of the pan may not be an option. 3. Drop the pan and put some compressed air in the front cover to try and push it down Good luck
im really glad others have admitted to doing this also!!! I have dropped a washer like that before, DONT JUST LEAVE IT, IT WILL FIND ITS WAY OUT!!! looks like your going fishing & its NOT the kind you would like to be doing I hope this job was not a price quoted job either. I would think its a steel washer, the mini cam Ridgid makes is great addition to any toolbox. I have took a long blow gun & blew 1 to the oil pan before also. I don't have very much experience on the mini stuff but I would pull the oil pan before id pull all the front covers..... oh & as you get older & tend to drop stuff more often, I put part of a sponge like you wash cars with down in the bottom of that opening nowdays to keep stuff from getting in there
Thanks guys, glad I'm not the only that has those days, the excavator is sitting in my shop, should be on a job site as I type, but for now its far better where its at in a warm dry shop. I'm going shopping tomorrow for a camera, always wanted one anyhow, anybody have a favorite model or make they'd recommend? I've been looking online this afternoon and there are some nice magnets that when you squeeze one end, it shoots out the magnet so it won't stick to everything on the way down, think I'm needing one of those as well. Until you guys mentioned it, I'd never given it a thought to using compressed air to try to shift it around to see it, I heard it go clink as it dropped, but figured with my luck it would hang up somewhere and I'd never see it with anything.
FS the sponge is an excellent idea, and I agree totally with the statement of the older you get, the worse gravity is, I've also noticed the ground is a whole lot harder than it was when I was a kid.
Don't get the Harbor Freight inspection camera. I have one The price is good but the head and stalk are too big and stiff to get it into anything. What is the gear train like below the drive gear? Falling off the nut, could it have stayed in the same plane orientation to drop straight down like in a pinball machine and past the crank gear?
The front cover is angled under the injection drive gear towards the crank, my guess is it rolled down the angle and plunked into the crank gear, if its stuck there or bounced off and is under the crank or managed to get into the oil pan?? Thanks for the heads up on the harbor freight camera. I was looking at the rigid cameras at home depot.
very small flexable magnet at northern tool , about 1/4 inch, 18 long, worked for me in a tight spot, sam.
An update on the project, I called everywhere for a camera, asked a lot of questions, most told me to go with the high priced one or forget it, which were out of stock in all the stores, so I came up with a cheaper one I could rent, took it home, didn't even come close to being able to get it in anywhere I needed it so I then hunted up a flexible magnet and tried that. I fished it around in the front cover awhile and gave up all hope, and when the magnet came out, the washer was on the end, after some doubtful comments from my help as this project was underway, everyone was in total shock when I actually got it out of the front cover. So all in all, we got it out, the pumps on, we ran out of time and had to go to a job and will finish it up in the next few days in amongst everything else, thanks for all the help from everyone.
good deal! :cool2
Yay! :notworthy
When a magnet won't grab something I put a shop vac on stiff tubing(copper,aluminum) works great even if you can't see something... as long as you got an idea of where it might be... sometimes it takes a while fishing but this method has saved my bacon a few times
That story had a happy ending. Way cool. I do like the sponge idea. I'll remember that trick. Coaldust
Had one on a JCB fork lift. Late Friday afternoon, could go home when the injector pump was in. Dropped the washer right down the front cover. I thought it hit the aluminum pan. Pulled it and sure enough there it was. Bolted her back up and finished assembly. Still made it home before dark. Some times luck will save your butt.
Glad to hear you got it out Randy! One of the best things about this forum is I pick up some seriously useful tips and tricks to make this job easier.
Randy, Good on you! While everyone is sharing there "I did that too" stories. I recall working on a Cat 966 transmission once just about finished installing the large valve body in the top when a washer slips off one of the valve body bolts! The one thing that saved us Norm and I were assembling the transmission on the floor in the shop right under a couple small over head cranes. A couple quick changes to lifting brackets and we had it hanging upside down. Give it a couple good shakes and out drops the washer. Flip it back over and finished installing the valve body just as the boss comes in and asks: "How things going?" "Fine no problems, be ready to install in a few minutes!"