For you guys running modern trucks, what would you recommend buying? Im in U.S. and have all major brands within a few hundred miles. The short of it is, im running a very large project and have already exhausted the local owner operators. I have three trucks of my own but they are 90s era and I have no experience with anything modern. I will need minimum twelve class B tri-axle dumps to keep me on track. Ive got more than 70 hired trucks right now and on any given day 5 to 7 of them call in or knock off early, and there is at least one or more breakdown every other day. I have reliable drivers to fill the seats, I just need reliable new trucks. Thank you.
If you have 12 reliable drivers already, then you've solved the hard part at least in my area. Buying trucks is the easy part. What is the budget for these 12 trucks?
Work must be plenty if the owner operators leave early. You hire one truck here they all want to come. Do you even have a single dealer with 12 trucks ready to go to work. It would take a year to get one truck where I live. Unless you were willing to take what's on the lot. Even then it would take time to buy and install boxes. Rare to have more than a couple trucks with the same specs that are work ready
Western Star--for specs as first choice. Truck Paper has lots of new and newer used listed.
I wish it was that way here. Tri-axles for hire are hard to get. The company we use has 20 or so trucks and it's a struggle to get more than 3 at a time. Dispatch will call around 2 PM every day to see if you want to keep the trucks for the next day, if you let them go - no telling when you can get them back. FWIW we pay them upon invoice before we are paid on the project. If I could find reliable drivers I would buy however many trucks their were drivers. Could keep them busy hired out and have them for our own work.
Any dot contracts require you to hire trucks. Company trucks csn only haul 25 percent of total materials. Unless the association cannot supply trucks. Trucks have to be paid according to the government rate, and there are provisions to make sure a contractor pays the hired trucks
From calling around so far this week, there are enough Kenworth T880 complete at a single dealer to fill my order immediately. Volvo dealer also has enough trucks, although mixed models and more in chassis cab configuration. Im waiting to hear back from a few other brands as to what they could pull together. I can spend up to 350k per truck and still be comfortable, of course less is better and why I want to get all one brand as a bulk buy in hopes of great discount. Unfortunately right now there are two major projects in my area that have commissioned most of the owner operators from a large radius. I cant get anyone with a trailer end dump at all and am only able to hire the tandems and tri-axles the other sites didnt want or let go under conditions. Im lucky to have a crew full of primarily operators that all hold at minimum a class B. I need at least 70 trucks per hour for my excavators to feed. Unfortunately, ill have to pull operators off the clearing work to fill the truck deficit day to day but can make that up after hours when the plant is closed that we haul to.
Since when in the *** can the government dictate how the job gets done? If a company has the ability to roll in with 100 trucks, how is that a bad thing? Seems like they are trying to suppress the free market by requiring the contractor to pull trucks from some pool. If these poor trucks can't survive without the government pushing work their way, maybe they need to find another line of work.
Sorry, but your business model seems to be crazy unique to anything I've ever seen. The truck doesn't move without the excavator.
Trucks will move just fine with the Sany excavators feeding them. Sounds like I need to buy a tri-axle and come out of retirement. Where is this pit? As long as it’s not in Mass, just have to get my medical card and I wI’ll buy my own truck. 6 months, ROI in 2 years at 50 hours a week.
Yes, im that same guy who is more than likely going to purchase the cheap SANY excavators. It was never my intention whatsoever to purchase trucks but at the moment with the way things worked out by the time I got my permits, its looking like im going to have to do just that. Of course I want the cheapest trucks but with the price im getting for material im leaving way too much on the table not having 70 trucks per hour leaving my site. So if I have to spend up to 350k per truck (which isnt that extreme for my region) I will do so. I appreciate your concern for my business model.
Not my point.
Im down at the bottom of CT, North Stonington and we are hauling into Richmond RI.
You do you, but there is no way, no how, not any universe in any dimension that I would put my faith in Americanized pieces of Chinese junk keeping 70+ trucks running if the return is so great that you can drop $350k PER on 12 trucks at the drop of a hat. If I was one of your operators that had to sit his ass in one of those Sanys while 12 brandy-new company trucks are coming in to load, well, I guess I'd be more than a little pizzed. Just sayin'.
You are having a lot of fun out there! Too bad I am the shy retiring type.
I appreciate your concern for my crews comfort and looking out for my investment. Im in a comfortable financial position though and being cheap where I can has allowed that to happen. My crew has the next 6 weeks to try out the SANY equipment on rental and if its as bad as you describe ill look to other brands. Just because im making plenty of money doesn't mean I need to spend it on the top name brands when a budget brand can do the same. Id rather pay bonuses to my crew or match their IRA contributions.
Please keep this thread on topic. Personal attacks will not be tolerated.
Truck Shop recommended the Western Star. I’m a T880 KW guy, but the 49x is proving to be more reliable and less expensive to operate for the fleets I’m involved with. The 49X is the money maker. I can’t share the data, because it’s not mine to share, anymore. Rough number, probably 15% T880 va 49X.
Thank you very much. Western Star has amongst the least listings within 200 miles of me. Probably just for the reason you pointed out. I did place a call to my closest dealer and am waiting to hear back. Those T880s I mentioned up thread that are upfitted already sitting on a lot may have to do by next week if nothing else. Ive got two more 50t excavators coming tomorrow or Friday and will have to make a decision within a few weeks on trucks.
Nothing wrong with that. Sometimes a K-Dub is the answer. Like Black Gold Express. 95’ and 80 tons. Hauling the mail.
But, the 49x has the vibe. I can’t lie.
5/8” full frame to the bumper. No frame horn nonsense. These girls are made to push.
Has Carlyle ditched KW completely?
Sometimes, you just want some class, no matter the cost.
Yes. Going that way across the board, at the moment. Purchase price, reliability and warranty.
If that's a 589, you can have it.
I was going to take a picture, for you guys, when I was at Pape’ in Anchorage today. They have purchased every last T900 they could get their hands on, for stock. Hate to see them go away.
That outfit is so big now, they are direct with PACCAR. They don’t even go through a dealer.
She’s gonna be pulling tankers to the patch this winter.
I got to pull some MX on this lady, next time She takes a break. She’s a 24 model. Difficult to get a good picture because this Gurl is a train. Rolling heavy on 44 quick. Gotta swing wide when throwing that stick. Give me 40 Acres by the Willis Brothers, comes to mind.
Owner operators specifically the dirt hauler have been unionized since the 70s. Department of transportation has been like that forever. It's in their contracts. Have you never heard of the operators union, labor union, teamsters. International brotherhood of electrical workers union. Oil refinery about 2 hours away. If you have work on site you can't put your own operator on the machine unless approved by the union. Otherwise your machine. Their operator. I hauled concrete to a site. Once I got to the gate, I had to get out and a teamster took the truck on site and unloaded it. Long shoremen. If a ship ties up at a federal wharf a union operator has to run the ships crane.
It's pretty hard right now to beat the Star HD specifications list offered, along with Daimlers warranties running as high as 750,000 mile plus on total coverage of every part/piece for a extra 5K IIRC. Plus Daimler will cover a percentage of towing cost, when running company tow unit I just make a invoice and hand service manager a copy, which with that alone covers all fuel maintenance cost to the tow unit. So it's a win win situation. * As far as frames go in heavy vocational Stars design and material specs have always been one of the best. * That can be done, yes it can but that regional dealer still gets it's cut to satisfy sales force. Mostly done that way at times to go directly to design desk to make sure all spec's are met with lowest amount of flaws. Not every tom, dick & harry can do that without placing a major fleet order.
That's only government contracts . We can do what we'd want otherwise. Federal or municipal contracts have no such clause
I’m hearing stories of 150k to 200k miles without any problems on the 49x. Conversely, the X15 has already had a DOC, a DPF, multiple NOX sensors, maybe some dropped liners, a new engine block, an in- frame and/or weeks of downtime. While you fight Cummins as they deny warranty on everything.
Wow. That's a nice warranty. Gotta be the reason why one of the larger paving outfits are now running new Star tri-axles.
The other cool thing is Star's Custom Truck Services. They can do up-fitting at the factory and all that can get rolled into the financing and warranty.
What ever happened with mack. The used to be the off road king. Do they still make an r model
Only main issue with DD's is valve/valve seats. Most of that occurred during 2018/2022. If documented valve adjustments in time frames those heads are/were covered under warranty. There are some other external items but those are taken care of easily.
All of ours come spec'd with factory drop axle install plus a few other items. I do believe all the company trucks will be 49's starting shortly, for the fact Freightliner discontinued the Cascadia model availability with drop & no side side fairings, all come with side now. We don't want those so WS it is.
Still supplying refuse truck chassis to the East Coast Jersey and NY garbage cartel. Mack’s slice of the pie. Their OTR class 8 presence is like zero. I don’t think Volvo wants them competing in the OTR market.
A lot of new Mack dump trucks here. Don't think they've made the R model in years.
Daimler has beaten the comp to death, with better options engine & transmission wise. Plus all the interior options. Pretty tough to beat those Mercedes drive axles. The rest are looking for life support. I figured a yea ago FRLN would hit 40%, well it surpassed, So my next is 48% share. It isn't getting better with PacCar superior high pricing. * Last R model Mack was 2003.
International dealer got back in touch with me today. They can get me eight SBA HX tridem by Wednesday next week, and one SFA HX tridem. they all have the same dump boxes right from the factory. The SBA models are mainly International S13/T14 powertrain. One is Cummins X15 with Eaton automatic and the SFA model is Cummins X15 with Allison Automatic. Anything negative about the S13/T14 powertrain? Im not too enthused about what "Coaldust" said upthread about the Cummins X15 needing work in its youth. I did speak again with the Kenworth dealer about the T880 models which all have the X15 engine.
Wow that fast. Lots of tractors at the dealers here but not many straight trucks. Even s tractor with a day cab is an order in item
He's in Alaska. About the worst environment a truck can exist in for at least 4 months of the year. They have to idle. They have to run #1 fuel. They have to have light oil. If they get shut off, the DEF freezes, and has to unthaw. Regens probably struggle mightily to maintain exhaust temp. There are probably more, but these are the main things that come to mind.
New England area is densely populated overall, so lots to pick from within a half days drive. These Internationals will be coming out of Pennsylvania and will be here next week if I commit to the sale by Friday. The Kenworth dealer has over twelve T880 with dump boxes right on the lot about 100 miles from me. They are pricey and somewhat mismatched in upfit and color. Not going to jump at them just yet.
That sums it up.
This one time, at the oil company, I needed a dozen K-Dubs post-haste. I bought from MHC Kenworth. Just a little South of you. And a shout out to MHC. They were awesome to deal with. If I were to do it again,…. I would start a new LLC, buy the trucks, then lease them to my other LLC. That’s what the cool Kids are doing in 2025. Call your CFO and chat him up. And your CPA. I’m a fan of IRS code section 179. Try to figure out the best way to depreciate them. Or, it might be better to lease them from MHC.
You’ll be so disappointed with the Internationals. It might even jeopardize your operation. The downtime will hurt. The Drivers will hate them.
I take it, you've been there and done that with International. I took an HX620 out today as a test and its a real nice truck. I am coming from an early 90s Mack RD690 as my newest truck so everything is a Cadillac compared to that. Right now its nine Internationals or eleven Kenworth that I have to choose from if I want trucks in a few weeks time. Other brands ive inquired about, Autocar, Freightliner, Mack, Peterbilt, Volvo, and Western Star have all returned my call and let me know they dont have anything into the near future.
It is a plastic piece of ***. End of story. Listen to C.D.
LOL - Yeah me too.
Yeah I don't think the 13 letter **** spreaders are what they once were.
Agreed, but at this time by what he's relayed it sounds like a roll of the dice.
Western Star sales rep called me early this morning to let me know we could work out a deal for 47X models already upfitted with dumps. Says he can get enough from a few different dealers in Jersey. Says they are 66k gvwr though which is a bit light for what I want. Told him again how many I want so hopefully he gets back to me today with how many "enough" is.
I never hear anything good about internationals.
It's quite sad, actually. International wouldn't exist if they wouldn't have dreamed up the S-series back in the late 70s. And after that, the 9400 had about a good of run as anything. You cannot drive in my country a day and not see a 9400 hooked to a grain trailer, or a 18-19-2500 doing something. If you look back, IH went down the tubes when Ford cut ties for pickup engines, and Caterpillar stopped putting engines in trucks.
Allot of Internationals are used for snowplowing. They're cheap and win state bid for trucks. People I talk to and on forums hate them. Always down for electronics, emissions etc. Many say they're down more than working. I haven't seen any newer International dump trucks at local companies for years. (I have no idea why my font went slanted)
We had a fleet of 4900s with 466s in them. Not enough power to hurt themselves but some had near a million miles on them when they died
Those were S-series. Good trucks other than the cabs rotted out.
State/counties around here have dropped IH and primarily buy Freightliner/WS or Mack.
Because IH has become junk.
There are a decent amount of I want to say early 2000s Paystar running through my site. From the small talk over the radio when loading trucks it seems like most are Cummins powered. I am aware the Maxxforce era was a disaster that turned away many from the brand. Out of the other brands ive got hired right now the Peterbilt guys are the ones who call in for downtime the most. Mack guys are the most reliable truck and operator so far. Not many other brands really represented amongst the guys ive hired to haul.
Speaking of smart business ideas you should not have all your eggs in one basket, you might want two companies with these trucks that away a bad accident can only leave some of your equipment up for the taking instead of all your equipment
Agree however the corporate veil is not that hard to pierce when it comes to liability.
Thank you for looking out. Ive seen a few members have brought this up so far. Im already well practiced in hiring myself and leasing to myself. I even go as far as realty trusts for the land im working. "CM1995" is correct though because as much as you separate everything at the end of the day if a civil suit reaches for damages in excess of what the LLC, S corp, or C corp has in assets and insurance, they are coming for whats in your personal name.
Hard to beat a western star cab for comfort and visibility.
After a ton of back and forth yesterday and today my local Wester Star was able to cobble together a deal for twelve X49 tri-axle with 86k gvwr and factory fitted dumps. They will be coming from multiple dealers across a few states. My crew is already calling it the "Pride Fleet" as I almost have the whole rainbow in colors. I was able to get three matching with gun metal cab and stainless box, the rest are pretty wild with lemon yellow, lime green, light purple, Turquoise, and a few other more tame colors. Thanks for the input and discussion.
I must say this has been a wild thread, and your cab colors match it
Good for you on acquiring Stars.
I wish it was just the cab. Burgundy, lemon yellow, sun yellow, light purple, lime green, and turquoise colors are the entire truck. The other trucks are three gun metal/stainless, white/black, lime green/silver, and turquoise/silver.
As long as continue to work it's all that matters. Paint doesn't haul the material.
Nice acquisition! Can't wait to see a photo of that lineup.
Here are a few pictures that were sent to me by the dealer. Was told that most of them are listed on truck trader or truck paper in the PA and NJ area so some of you may recognize them. Ill take a photo when I can get them all together at once. Enjoy these for now.
Nothing wrong there, look fine nice paint jobs. Can be seen in traffic, A friend would like to have that Cuda green one, his 92 W900 is painted the same.
They will be sharp running the highway between my site and the processing yard. Im actually liking that darker yellow one the more I look at the pictures. Crew can fight over the rest.
They're going to look great. All lined up like a box of crayons.
You can definitely find your color over time here
What size dump boxes?
I see that Black Gold just took delivery of 54? new Peterbilt tractors. Seem like their replacing the KW's pretty quick!
Interesting. Doesn’t surprise me. Likely new ore tractors - first batch is probably roached out and depreciated out by now.
All of these Colville, Fitzgerald Pete gliders are roached out, too. Colville has been rotating them into Anchorage for rebuilds. Engines, drive trains, wire harnesses, paint, glass, upholstery,…….
Sorry I missed your question, 18yd boxes.
17 foot?
Majority of the paperwork I have so far lists them as Beau Roc HD bodies 54" x 18' x 6'. Closest truck right now is over 4 hours away so I wont know for sure until I sign the paperwork and have them shipped up to me.
Canadian made box. We run them on all our straight trucks
Looks like a nice box from the pictures. I did inspect a smaller 16' box on a 47X model when I was at the dealer.
I just took delivery of a Beau Roc 15'x48x60 for a replacement body, Hardox 500 floors and 450 sides, they are a rugged body. Getting ready to order another body for a truck we are building that I have options for length, was curious what was being spec'd on the new trucks.
This is all new to me for the most part. Ive heard some of the names from chat with other guys but have no real experience using any newer dump bodies. Im still running Atlas and Fruehauf on my three Macks.
Thanks for the discussion everyone but new trucks didnt work out at all. Western Star couldn't secure the trucks we worked out the deal for. Went back to Kenworth and they didn't have enough inventory anymore. I drafted up a contract with my materials buyer to guarantee me at minimum ten of their OTR haul trucks for quarters 1-3 of 2026.
Dang. I really wanted to see that lineup.
Typical salesman, sell it and figure out how to deliver later
Im not too enthused about any of the shopping and majority of salespeople ive dealt with. Im happy to be done buying trucks/equipment for the foreseeable future that I own my business. All said and done I did end up with two brand new International HX620 in case I need them. International dealer has been the best to deal with.
For sure they will be the best to deal with, nobody wants the junk IH is peddling.
Well, there is that. The elephant in the corner. School busses and low bidder, state agencies.
A few local guys have said the only way to keep the Navastar engines running is a full delete. Improves them from useless to sorta works.
IH can't be much worse than these. *
I was thinking you gave a Cummins a 50/50 chance. I don't think I've ever heard anyone give a maxxfarce anywhere that good of odds.
Everything is 50/50.
Both are Cummins/Allison.
The Western star route would more than likely put you in a DD13, any better odds? Transmission in a Western Star and a Detroit engine would be what? Allison 4500?
DT12.
For immediate, fleet scale reliability in severe duty applications, the Kenworth T880 and the Mack Granite are your strongest bets due to their proven uptime and vocational focus.
Is this guy real? All of his posts sound like they are written by AI.
Bucktown should provide a courtesy proof of life reply. A picture of his T880 and today’s local newspaper or something. The BOT vibe is real.
Who even knows? Who are we really chatting with? For example, that girl I met on Facebook, Becky. I was helping her get through nursing school. She was getting good grades & pulling her life together. Turns out, it was some dude in Pakistan, I was sending all those gift cards to. Whoduthunkit?
Guys, stop arguing about brands because you won't solve anything on site. When I needed heavy logistics solutions two years ago right here in the US, I struggled just as much with old trucks until I stumbled online across CurbWaste in an industry article. The guys there explained exactly how to optimize your fleet and routes without throwing money away on machinery stuck in the shop. Since you have a 350k budget per truck, you better read that material to see how to efficiently manage your transport operations before placing blind orders.
You just "stumbled" across an online article and came here to make your first post about it? Yeah right.. Bucktown is DOA as he was a spammer that was dealt with "extreme prejudice" per the Forum rules.
^^^Your work is appreciated^^^ Thanks!
I'm waiting for the sales pitch
some thing very odd about this post. If the poster actually has this very large project, then why with the past experience of previous projects did they not realize the problem of sourcing that many trucks. And they only have three themself, really a large outfit like that only has three trucks, come on, I do not buy this.
Full of ****.