How far will a tandam drive dump WITH cross axle locks get in deep sand under its own power? See photos, I need to cross the river and would be nice to do it under its own power, I do have 4wd tractor and small dozer, so could drag it across but I'm on my own and its a pain sourcing help. Would it go further in reverse, steer axle dragging rather than pushing sand in front? The photos were after a recent flood, we cross it enough so that there are usually well defined wheel tracks, a 4wd ute left in 2wd will follow the wheel tracks until it hits a bit of an incline then it will spin and stop if left in 2wd. Is probably 100-120 yards of sand, banks on either side are much steeper than appear in photos but shouldn't be a drama to get up. However truck will have much wider wheel tracks than anything else we have so difficult to get defined tracks foe it to follow. I need to move some gravel, some on the other side of that river, only need cross empty and do job, not cart acoss loaded. Also need to gravel some private road, easy access. Looking at either buying an old tandam drive tip truck or a tip trailer behind my tractor. Truck will be faster for road stuff, but have to cross the river. Will also be old with possible associated mechanical issues. Trailer will be much slower for road stuff but easy to cross river and should have no issues hopefully, being new. Trailer is braked and uses tractor hydraulics to tip. No real experience with either option. Truck will be rated to 12t, trailer 8t. Money similar for each. Hiring it out isn't really an option. Photo of buried fence post just to show there's no real bottom to the sand.
On some roads in the mountains they have "sand traps" to stop runaway trucks that have lost their brakes on the way down. It's hard to move a truck in loose sand. It's a good way to ruin expesive parts. FWD
What kind of tires do you have? There is certain ways to drive on sand
Slower may in fact be faster so I'm voting tractor and trailer. Bauld tyres get better traction in sand though.
Yeah I'm leaning the same way Tones. Be still interested to see how far everyone thinks a truck can get across the sand through. Cfherrman, don't have a dump truck yet, but based on the few i have inspected so far, tyres won't be real good.
All depends on width of tires, how fine and dry sand is.
Most, if not all, over here tandem drive trucks. 295/80 22.5 steers 11R 22.5 drives Sand will be dry, fineness, pretty hard to quantify, seems to change with time. To explain, those photos were taken just after the second highest flood in living memory and it moves a lot of the sand around. It seems to be courser now than it was, but it also seems to become finer over time. Whether that is due to cattle and vehicle traffic bringing fines up to the top, or smaller floods washing finer stuff down. I don't know. That's why I included the bit about the 2wd going OK in wheel tracks but not with any incline. Best I could think of for some context. Without wheel tracks, 2wd bogs down instantly.
Can you rent some mats ?
No, to remote. I could make a corduroy of timber but it's an awful lot of work and only lasts till the next flood. If the trucks not able to drive across with minimal effort, then it simply won't suit and I'll go with the trailer and live with the slowness on easy access jobs.
This is Jonny Knoxville que music.Type trucks are thinking about? Empty starting higher gear lugging it helps on soft ground & climbing. Crossing river axle vents water intake,batteries things to look at besides the road. Positive get stuck in the river you'll have a fishing dock.
Damn seeing old auction results I could had 1 heavy honey for price of a 20yr old Kia
Rent aHaul as they do in LA have LS switch aroo be on the road Monday morning
I haven't seen a Bobcat backhoe attachment in a long time!
You don't have army surplus 6x6's around ?
Yeah there are a few Mack R600's around, but your looking at more than double the price of the trailer. More than can be justified for my usage.
In the northeast USA our rule of thumb was a loaded tandem with cross locks will go where a pickup in 2WD does. That's typically true in mud, snow, hills, mountains, etc but bottomless sand is likely another matter. This may not hold true for utes in OZ. The tractor and trailer would be slow and I expect it'll get stuck also but a careful operator could probably drop the trailer and drag/winch it out with the tractor if necessary. I'm interested in seeing what you end up with.
Years ago I worked on the Brisbane International Airport terminal preloaded which was a 4.4 million cubic metre sand mound. It was covered with a bitumen product to stop the sand blowing. To do this they used an ex army International 6x6 fitted with super singles all round and a 5000gal tank with a dribble bar. That thing to my amazement climbed over the mount unassisted which was higher than the now built terminal. They still come up for sale occasionally on Market Place and Gumtree, some were tippers and had winches. Ex army international acco truck for sale Ex-army International Acco trucks are available through Australian classifieds like Gumtree and specialized dealers such as Just Trucks, with listings appearing across NSW, Queensland, Victoria, and Tasmania. These vehicles are primarily 1960s–1970s era military trucks, often configured as 4x4... search.brave.com
Really the more powered axles the worse it will be when you get stuck, driver mod is better. You want highway tires, no mudd or rough terrain tires at all. Get a trash pump and pump so.e water from the stream to where you are driving This is an instant that an automatic will get you through and a manual will have a broken axle or framed
The key to driving on sand is to let air out of ALL the tires to a point you think is too much. The less air the better for flotation on sand. We used to go camping near a drive on beach. The PU with a full loaded slide in camper was 10.5k#. Didn’t need 4wd if the tires were deflated, even in soft sand. Be prepared to reinflate when back to hard surfaces.
This is an instant that an automatic will get you through and a manual will have a broken axle or framed Spent years in the dirt-70k lbs 4axle dumps-double bottom dump-end dump all manuals never broke an axle or frame auto stay with a f550
I'll only need to cross empty, so I would be astounded if the 4wd tractor couldn't drag the empty trailer across, its only 2.2 metric tons empty. Im really not sure on the truck and I don't want to find out the hard way without a bit of forethought. Im experienced with tyre pressures etc, just wasn't sure if it would be enough for the truck to make it. As I stated earlier, I think best chance could be tyres right down, cross locked and possibly backwards as then you are dragging the steers rather than pushing them, but then you could also loose a bit of momentum backwards if you get off line slightly. I have a 4x4 light truck with dual drives tyres and single steers, and it is ok going across even towing a light trailer, but because the drives are wider than the steers they are making there own path and therefore working harder than you'd expect. I've got the 4wd truck stuck trying to tow a trailer through with no wheel tracks.
It's hard to guess test run easy ready to back up steer tires will tell how packed it is/feels before stuck
Yeah trouble is i don't have a tandem dump to test with, I'll be buying one if I go that route. Expensive lesson if I buy one and get it stuck. I have the machinery to drag it across (I think), but it won't be a one man job and I am on my own.
Soft tyres would help as allready mentioned
I did find this but it sold before I got a chance to get a look at it. $26k with Cat 3208 and Allison auto, but going by the photos there may have been a few issues. That maybe the real issue here, I've only looked 3 trucks now and gee there rough for the money. The 6x6 started at $40k and as said sold for 26. The other two were simple bogie drive tippers asking mid 30's, both had rusty cabs, one badly. And just looked neglected, so who knows on the engine/gearbox. I can't afford justify anymore than probably mid 20's, and even though it won't be registered in really don't want something so rusty my feet are going through the floorboards. If its mechanically excellent it doesn't really matter, but sorting the wheat from the chaff could be the issue. Where as hopefully the trailer being new is problem free.
A plus for the tractor is the ability to do other chores with it.
Yeah, the tip truck is really a one trick pony. Whereas the tip trailer sides remove to make it a flatbed and I may find other uses for it carting fencing gear across the river, etc, apart from just the gravel work.
I'd give it a try in my tandem dump, it's set up well for off road use. Floats on the front, walking tandems with good tires, full lockers, deep gearing and a fairly light empty weight (22K). It'll go places a 4wd pickup on street tires won't. Your two biggest problems are that most of your trucks over there seem to be cab-overs and are on narrow steer tires. Being light on the front end is of utmost importance and good floatation on the steers is critical, 385 floats minimum, 425's would be better. Once you start sinking in your done, especially on the front end. If you can find a suitable truck I'd give it a try. Tires aired down as much as you can, pick the right gear and hit it with a little speed. If you start spinning and forward momentum begins to slow just stop and hook up the dozer. Better to make it as far as you can and make the rest with an easy tow then to bury it to the frame. Disclaimer, don't try anything you are about to read lol: I've pulled out trucks with my dozer by myself numerous times. Hook it up with a chain, put the dozer in low gear, push the throttle up to the point it's pulling against the converter where the track are just about to spin, hop in the truck and try to ease it out. If it comes out set the brakes on the truck (which may be being dragged along at this point), jump on the dozer and shut it down. Certainly not safe or recommended, but it's gotten me out of a bind a time or two. If your dozer is direct drive or hydrostatic its not going to be as easy. Another one, if you have an excavator, back it into position, swing the house around towards the truck, hook a chain to the undercarriage. Then open front window and hook a rope to the travel sticks, this way you can pull on the rope and it will make the excavator drive away from you, pulling the truck out.
I have a tandem dump truck and have some experience with sand. If the sand is packed or will pack you can drive on it. If the sand is loose or you can dig a hole just by kicking it you'll likely get stuck. I was able you get a couple loads of sand from the Operating Engineers training center here. I tried to drive up to the sand where they were loading from a pile. I came very close to getting stuck. I only have the inter-axle lock but was able to get through but it was hard on the driveline. Lots of slow as possible spinning as it was loose sand. I was rather amazed a JD544 or 644 loader could not only drive in the same sand but actually had enough traction to dig in and get full bucket fulls. I don't even think it spun! I think a tractor and trailer with wide tires is your best option. Not worth breaking an axle or u-joint if you start to get stuck.
Dave, a lot of stream and river systems the sand is what they call decomposed granite and no guts in it whatsoever but great for hornching pipes. The sand on Pony's place looks to this stuff.
Dave in my experience its nearly impossible to get a 4wd tractor or loader bogged in sand. At least in my sand. Fixing other crossings to the one pictured, I was using my 4wd tractor with loader arms to slot doze sand up to vertical wash outs. I could bog the tractor down till it started to spin and dig in to get the bucket full then keep it spinning while lifting the bucket til it would just start going forward and then keep pushing at that point. With those machines the ground clearance is your friend. I can't do that with my backhoe in this sand, it is 4wd and can happily work in it, picking up full buckets, but because of the much lower ground clearance you just cant keep her spinning, because pretty soon your bellied out.
The worst is white silica sand used for golf course sand traps. It's like trying to drive in a grease pit.
Well I'm not going to discover if a bogie drive tipper is going to get over my river as I ended up going with the trailer. Trucks were just to rough for the money, I'm sure with enough time i could have found a decent one at the right price, but then I'm back to will I get it stuck. Im confident the trailer will tow across the river easy, I'll just have to live with it being slow on the good roads. Thanks all for the input.
Steady Steady is fast.
She'll be steady for a while tones. I'm pushing the limits of my tractor with this trailer. Trailer is rated to carry 8 ton with a tare of 2. Tractor weighs about 5 ton. Trailer is the actual one pictured earlier, so tandem axle with s-cam brakes on each axle. S-cam activated by hydraulic ram rather than air cans. Tractor has mechanical linkage brakes rather than hydraulic, so I'll be using the second tractor remote to manually brake the trailer. Probably dodgy, but I think workable with a bit of park the ego. Plus everything will be taken slowly. I obviously haven't got to fill the trailer to full capacity and definitely won't til it see how it goes with light loads. I could have went with a smaller trailer, but the 6 ton rated one, went back to a single axle and unbraked. So I figured even if I only load this one to 6 or even 4, its got a second axle and 2 sets of brakes over the smaller trailer.
The tires should help
With the extra weight on the drawbar will help with traction and breaking. Being on reasonably flat ground where you are you'll be OK as long as you don't consider yourself to be a reincarnated Jack Brabham
Not sure if it was mentioned, but I just came across these. Might be useful in your situation if you had decided to go with a tandem truck:
How expensive are those?