Hey guys I'm looking for some of y'all's advice. What would you do? I'm in the landscaping and grading business and I just sold my single axle 33,000 gvw dump truck. I have a 953b track loader that I have no way of moving. It usually cost me $200 to move it. I usually sub out most of my hauling as far as dirt, rock, ect goes because I usually need a lot hauled. I'm thinking about buying me either a dump trailer (20' dump gooseneck 10 ton) for the sole purpose of hauling clearing debris off from clearing lots. The plus on the trailer is that I can let my helpers (no cdl) drive the truck and haul off the debris and I can continue to clear. If I buy a dump truck it won't hold quite as much debre as the trailer and I'll have to drive it but it will be able to move my loader and I could haul dirt and rock in on small jobs. I would sub out the hauling on rock and dirt most of the time still though. The trailer will be a simple one time $75 tag and I'm good to go for clearing lots but will still have to pay somebody to haul my loader. If I buy the dump truck it will cost me $1600 a year for tag and insurance but I could move the loader and haul debre and rock dirt on small hauling jobs. 9 times out of I will still sub out the dirt and rock hauling. As of now I haven't moved the loader much because I'm not getting many clearing jobs because of my extra equipment and debris hauling expense. I'll attach pictures of the truck and trailer. Tell me what you think! http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums...1-427D-4B92-AA55-BA66272CF448_zpsgholmxol.png http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums...E-2D87-4516-AF27-0795FB284DE9_zpsvzsfwuf2.png Can't get the trailer pic to upload but it's a used 20' 10 ton dump in good shape for $7000
I think you kind of answered your own question.You stated "As of now I haven't moved the loader much because I'm not getting many clearing jobs because of my extra equipment and debris hauling expense". Sounds to me that if you want more business you need to be able to do your own trucking. As for the trailer and your 'help' hauling stuff, unless you happen to have exceptional help with morals and values, they will just do more damage then good and cost you money. So if you are going to do your own driving it might as well be your own 'real' truck that you can move machine and debris with. Good luck on whatever you choose and keep us in the loop. Read- "pictures" Cheers L D
No way would I buy a dump trailer to have my help haul 10 ton in. Especially at 7000$. You should be able to get a plenty nice tandem dump and tag trailer for 15000$ and you won't be waiting on anyone to move you machine. Hiring your machine hauling may sound ok now, but I can promise you that it will be enough of an inconvenience to make you wish you had bought a truck if you don't.
Thanks for the opinion guys! What do you think about the 85 kenworth in the picture? It has about 350,000 on it. What would you value that truck at and do you think it will do fine with the loader?
The way DOT figures it, if the combination is over 26,000, you will need a class A license. I don't believe you will get away with the under 26,000 rule. In MN if it is a company truck the driver will also need to fill out a drivers log, and have a current health card, even for a pickup pulling a welder. We just got fined on that one.
That KW would be fine, we have alot of hills here and we gross 80k in trucks with 300hp cats with 8lls. What engine and trans does that truck have? And price? I'm thinking around 10000$ unless it's way above average.
O-I-h brings up a good point also. Don't buy a trailer planning on hauling 10 tons with non cdl drivers, that won't fly in any state in the land.
Yeh I have my cdl class a. The trailer wouldn't weigh in any wear close to 10 tons with them driving cause I would have them haul the brush and trash off. I would get the stumps. Has anybody looked at the truck in the pictures? Thanks
Around here that kw would bring about $10,000. There's not much use for a tandem in steady hauling. In any state, a 10-ton trailer behind anything requires a class A CDL. A 24,000 lb rated trailer behind a nissan p'up has a gcwr above 26001 lbs. That F550 requires a medical card and drug test etc. to drive empty with no trailer. NC will put it on the shoulder for that, and the fines aren't cheap.
saw the post you typed while I was typing: CDL or not goes by what it can weigh, not what it does weigh.
Interesting! So even if I have a f550 tagged at 25,000 then my part time employs would need a medical card and drug tests done by my company? The one I let drive my truck is a full time fire fighter and her works with me on the side. He does not have his cdl license but I know his full time job drug tests him and he has a medical card. I need to make sure I get that figured out so nobody gets in trouble!
I'm young (25). I still have a lot to learn. But if I've learned one thing so far it is this line of work is extremely expensive to be in obviously. I just can't put my head around how cheep some people are working for in every service I offer!
Without the trailer he just needs to have the medical card in his pocket, doesn't matter who paid for it. You could probably use a copy of his drug test, too. that will usually only come up if he has a wreck or you get a DOT safety audit. That f550 probably has a 19,000 gvwr, so if he pulls a trailer with a 7001 gvwr, most any tandem trailer, he needs a class A, even if truck and trailer are empty.
The thing about the lowballers is, the first thing that goes wrong, they are out of business, but, never fear. Some other dipstick will buy his equipment and charge a little less.
The F550 can pull up to 10,000lbs without a cdl. 10,001 and up is cdl range. Use the door sticker on the truck and the placard on the trailer. I am contemplating on getting the very same trailer you are mentioning in a g/n version. My reason is because I took on a new job that has me VERY busy, to the point that I may use my dump only a few times a year. The $2500 to insure and register it simply are not worth it at this point, the trailer's $30/yr reg is looking a lot more lucrative and the maintenance should be a lot less than a dump. I would believe that the dump should be priceless if this is your main source of income. Good luck.
The truck says it has a big cam cummins and 13 speed in it. I'm not sure what gen the bc is or if the trans is a ranger or eaton fuller? I've been studying about that motor for the past 2 hours. I've read a bunch of stuff on how the cooling system was some of the main differences but I really haven't gotten any wear on how to tell what generation it is for sure. Any advice on figuring out the generation when I go to look at it tomorrow? He's asking 12 so I'll have to see how close to 10 I can get him!
How heavy of rear ends and front axle does it have? And is it air ride or walking beam?
I'm not sure until I see it tomorrow. He said that it can legally haul 15.5 tons.
Hey that sure is a nice looking 1985 KW dump truck jca57jd . Looks like it has the KW 8 bag suspension on the rear . Be nice if you could get the trailer with it as that would make a handy all around rig to move the track loader with . We have a 1984 KW W-900 . It has the 400 Big Cam II in it. Hard to go wrong with a Big Cam cummins as they made good power & were reliable engines . Plus they wont break the bank when rebuilding them . I really like the older KW trucks, nice quiet well insulated cab. Just seem to be well built trucks all around .
Hey jca57jd, Either way you go, dump truck or trailer, if your firefighter friend part time help is going to be around for a while it would probably be in your best interest to let him use your rig to get his CDL. He is half way there already if his health card meets DOT requirements. Not sure what firefighters test for but even if he needs a different health card it would be cheap insurance and you would be good to go.
Are you sure it will only cost $1600 a year for tags and insurance for that KW? I have a KW just like that truck except with that cat motor. In my state it cost more than that just for the tags, the insurance would be another ~$3k a year. My business situation sounds similar to yours, I sub out most of my trucking for a few reasons. With the cost of tags and insurance the truck needs to be working all the time to make it worth it. It never pencils out dollar wise for me, I just don't have the consistent work load. Like someone else mentioned its convenient to not have to wait on a truck for material or to move a machine. But what is that convenience worth to you $$$? The other issue is like you my help (if I have help) can't drive the the truck, so if I'm driving the truck I have to find someone to replace myself onsite. I have found it is much easier to just call a truck rather than to try to find a employee to replace myself. I know I'm the odd man out on this subject...... But every operation is different. This doesn't make much sense to me. If you had the trucks and trailers to haul your machine and debris you wouldn't want to do the work for free. So how much would it really effect your bid price? I wouldn't get hung up on being the lowest bid every time. With work like this there is always someone willing to work cheaper.
I would say get the KW. If you are working the 953 5 days a week all year then maybe just stick with that then. However the truck would make you more self sufficient and mobile and therefore small jobs would be easier to quote and get. Larger jobs just keep out sourcing your trucking. You would make money 2 ways with the truck, its hourly rate when you can charge the customer or include it in a quote and you will also make money with your machine by using the truck to get your machine to jobs cheaply. Example would be you are making 50K with the 953 and then in your first year with truck you make 80K with the 953. You can then assume the truck helped you make 25-30K plus what you are able to charge the truck out at. I see a lot of one man shows around here. Cat 931 track loader, D3, 410 backhoe and now its mostly small excavators. But one thing all those guys have in common is their own gravel trucks to haul their equipment. Cheers L.D.
I'm not following your logic here. Are you saying that owning your own truck is going to help land you a huge amount of work for the track loader? Or are you saying that you could clear another 25-30K that you would have previously spent on trucking? It sounds to me like your saying having a dump truck and trailer is going to open the door to more work for the TL. How do you see this working out? Potential customers calling for material hauling,(maybe gravel or fill dirt) that don't already have a machine or contractor lined up to deal with the load when it arrives? This seems like an unlikely situation to me.
I am saying a truck would help get smaller jobs so his companies gross revenues would be higher at the end of the year. He would end up doing more work with his track loader,due to lower/easier machine moving. Also make some money with his truck hauling for others if the loader is not busy. Make the loader his focus and get others to haul stuff on large jobs, use truck to get smaller jobs. Cheers L.B.
I dont know if this will help but I wish i could go back and do some things over. When i started off i had my mind set that i need to have the pickup,trailer and other stuff that i needed to get me started. I had it in a years time and it was payed for and i was makeing money faster than i could spend it so i never got any bigger at a time when i could money wise. Now years later its time to get bigger or get out and i dont fill safe going to the bank. My advice is realy do the math on what its going to cost. If you can move your loader it will make you more money and be the nexts step up the ladder.
Yair . . . Over here I have known several one man shows consisting of a tandem tipper and tag with an excavator on the truck and a skid/CTL on the trailer . . . one bloke has a workshop built into the front of the tag and does on site repairs for other folks if needed. He reckons as long as he's getting his hundred odd bucks an hour it doesn't matter if he's running the welder or the skid. In short, it would be impossible over here to run a business without having a truck to move your own small equipment from job to job. Cheers.
Ok so your saying smaller jobs could be bid cheaper in turn landing more work.... Got it. But how is owning your own truck going to make enough of a impact on your bid to increase work? Example: lets say trucking goes for $100 per hour in the op's area. Wouldn't you want to still charge that $100 per hour to move your machine to the job? So how does the bid price go down? If you cant hire a real local truck I can see where you could save some hours. You could cut your price on the trucking I suppose, but then the trucks not going to make any money. The other part of this is the monthly cost associated with a truck, what happens when you don't move the machine for a month? You could have paid a sub for a few moves with what you just wasted on insurance and registration. My truck cost me ~$400 a month before I turn the key if I have everything current.
I could see this being a issue if you cant find a reliable local truck to hire..... Around here we have a few trucks hungry to make money. That may change some when work picks up and everyone's to busy doing there own thing.
Yair . . . . Gotcha LT-x7. Every place is different, in many places over here suitable trucks you could hire would be owned by fellers in the same business and situations may arise where they would be in no hurry to help you shift. Cheers.
The Tandem dump truck set up to pull a tag trailer is very common in my area . Pretty nice setup as a dump truck and track loader or excavator go together like cornbread & beans :yup. It allows one man to move it all to a job site in one trip . Get to the job , unload , unhook trailer and go to work . That sure is a nice looking KW dump truck:thumbsup