I had to go to Jacksonville Fla last week and on the way back Friday to NC I drove through the I-95 construction in southern Georgia during the day and noticed that in Northern Florida and Georgia that I saw only tandem dump trucks. In Florida I saw two single axle tractors pulling tandem dump trailers that were around 16 foot long. Some of the dump trucks had the high flotation tires on the front axle but were tandems. Is the laws in Georgia and Florida that strict? I have a tandem Mack that around here is a bit of a relic, if I had a tri-axle I could get more work. On I-95 the trucks were hauling fill dirt, gravel, and asphalt. It just blew my mind seeing nothing but tandems-around North Carolina a job like that would bring out the big boys with 4 and 5 axles. Is it like this elsewhere in the country?
Red Bank, from what I have learned it goes purely on weight. You could have as many axles as you want but it won't allow you to carry more load. I know around middle Ga area the companies run alot of trailer dumps. The paving comp. run those short tri-axle dumps and the sand and rock haulers run regular length tandem trailers. I asked a driver that was bringing us rock one day about it and he said the trailer dumps allow a few more tons than a tandem dump truck, thats why they are used more often. I might have my info a little wrong, its all word of mouth.
Around here if you sub to anyone you almost have to have a tri or they aren't enterested. I always found it odd in a way as alot of the tri's don't have the same size beds but isn't as important as the number of axles. Mine is 20 cyds and if not careful they will over load me. Which I don't like to much, but it's a fact of life unless you scale it in which case you'll likely not get a call back again. If I had my way and could pick the jobs I wanted I would turn mine into a tadem and limit the getting stuck. However with work as scarce as it is I have to deal with the tri tadem issue. I have a friend I run with some now that use to sub his truck out for the same rate I get and would bet he would be lucky to have a 15 cyd bed. Which means if I ever spec a bed new it won't be a 20 cyd. would probably only drop down to an 18cyd though just for the side rail clearance. One of the mid sized paving companies around here will run a tadem. A lot of there company trucks if not all are single axles with a tag. Which works fine if I reacal what I heard correctly and a lot of the paving work around will only let you haul 15 tons. I'm not certain of that though as that is not my scope of work. Hauled my first load of mix last week in 12+ years of hauling.
Here in OH most run 6 axles! With each axle there is additional tonage, but nothing like a strong arm, or rear trailing pusher. Because the strong arm adds lenth to the wheelbase, it also adds more tonage than the front mounted tag/pusher axles! Again this is in OH. Each state is different. There are even a few 7 axle straight trucks, and tandums pull quads in the 30 ft range!
Here in MO you can have two axles and then two air pusher axles.
Red Bank I'm going to speak as a Floridian ,the single axle tractor with tandem trailer in Florida, if it has 36 ft wheel base , can legally gross 73,280 lbs ,with a light weigh combination, I have hauled 25.5 tons of dirt, the trailer that you saw probably is 22ft dump bed ,but the frame is 28 to 29 ft long to accomplish the 36ft W/B. Here in Florida the max for a straight truck is 70.000# with a third axle ,if you ad more axles all you doing is adding weight , a tandem max gross is 65,780# but thats with the 445/65R 22.5 high flotation tires on the steers at 21,780 # on this axle along and 44,000# on the tandem ,Florida allows 22,000# per duals axle or 44,000 per tandem "not on interstate hi ways" ,but I've never known of anybody that has been ticketed for this ,since there is a lot of this on the interstates . I hope I didn't confused you with this .
When I drove in GA, it was tandem's only. Truck was around 23,500 lbs. empty and you could cross the scales at 64,000 lbs, no more then 55,000 lbs. on the interstate though I think. When I was in Mo I drove a tri-axle and I could cross the scales at around 79,000 lbs I believe and the truck was about 30,000lbs empty.
Thanks for the info! It just amazes me why every state seems to do things differently.
One size doesn't fit all. I'm really glad that the states get to decide whats right for local conditions, climate, major industries, road maintenance needs etc. Think how well those spring thaw weight restrictions that I've heard about up north would go over in Florida.
Georgia law won't allow axles that can be lifted. That is why you only see tandems. It is a retarded law. Nowhere else in the country has such a stupid law. I suppose it was written before they had steerables and caster control pushers. They are still stuck on stupid. I can see there reasoning back when pushers were raised when cornering to save tires but now with newer style pushers it would be a negative for the truckers to raise pushers As for the sunshine state they also have antiquated weight laws. These laws have been grandfathered in for decades. They allow big payloads on these lame axle configurations. They could be hauling bigger payloads and be easier on the roads and bridges by conforming to the federal weight laws like most of the rest of the country
That strong arm is the hot set up. It goes by the fed weight law and is under weight on all axles while giving you the biggest payload of all. It also doesn't damage the infrastructure
One size could fit all.. it's called the federal bridge formula. It allowes bigger payloads by requiring the truck to have a bigger foot print. This formula was used to design the fed interstate system. It was very well thought out and works equally well everywhere. There may be an exception in northern states for spring thaw but I doubt they will apply that in Florida. There only reason I know of for local laws is local lobbies and politicians.They line there pockets by keeping things the way a local special intrest group wants them
Construction on the Interstate Highway System started in 1956. The Bridge Law didn't come in until 1974. Your timeline is off. Hence the phrase "One size doesn't fit all"... Or maybe local conditions, terrain or materials. The whole world isn't the same.
Personally, I absolutely hate the federal bridge law. In the dump truck business it produces some awfully impractical trucks. (I don't want to shock anybody, but, I don't think the federal govt. necessarily has practicality as it's first priority when writing regulations.) In SC, off the interstates, vocational trucks can gross 35,000 on 2 axles, 50,000 on 3 axles, 70,000 on 4, and 80,000 on 5, as long as no axle exceeds 20,000 lbs. It is not possible to get an overweight permit for a divisible load. I have a daycab CH Mack and a 24' aluminum frame type trailer that is legal for 26.75 tons. If I go to NC or Ga, I am good for about 16 tons. With this short tractor and short trailer I can back in places a triaxle can't. When I deliver to farms or construction sites, I have almost no worries about turning over. With a bridge law rig, there are many, many field entrances you simply cannot get into, thus it makes for a much longer haul for the spreader trucks. I have a very short (12' body) tandem that is used mostly off-road. When I do use it on the road, I have a hard time packing enough limestone on it to hit 50,000. Around here, it is normal to go 50 miles for limestone or sand, and 120 miles for granite, so that 26.75 is nice.
Yes that is true the bridge law was signed into law in 74 . But it was used to design the interstate. In 56 when they decided to build the interstate they passed one of the first federal weight laws. 73280. You may recognize that number because they still use a form of that law for state law in some of the northern states like PA. You will know when your in one of those states because the roads are destroyed. One continuous pot hole. In the late 50s they did a study to find out why the roads were being torn up. The result of that study was the federal weight formula. They didn't give this to congress until 64 and it was not passed into law until 74. But it was being used throughout the bulk of the interstate construction to design the bridges and pavement. And when enforced like it is in a lot of states the roads are in great condition.
There are exceptions for special conditions such as the spring thaw rules but that would be left to the states. As it should . But that exception lowers your weight and you would still be legal under the federal weight formula hence the phrase 'One size could fit all'
Construction on the Interstate Highway System started in 1956. The Bridge Law didn't come in until 1974. Your timeline is off. Hence the phrase "One size doesn't fit all"...Or maybe local conditions, terrain or materials. The whole world isn't the same Most local condition, terrain and materials are handled by equipment specifications. Not the weight laws I don't know of many exceptions where the federal formula isn't good for truckers and the infrstructure. In most all cases we could haul bigger payloads and ,not tear up the roads. Where would we be without the interstate and this country may not have the money to continue to repair it prematurely. I'm not saying we would not have to buy a pusher here and there but under the federal law most equipment to enhance your payload has a quick (ROI) return on investment
Did you read my post?
I believe that when the roads are frozen solid in the north the weight limits go up also. Someone with actual experience up north will be along shortly to correct me if I am wrong. You do realize that you are contradicting yourself when you say that "the states could reduce limits for spring thaw" and "One size could fit all" right? By definition there would be multiple rules in place, just like we have now... did you read mitch504's post? He cites some good examples.
In some towns in NH during Mud Season, roads are posted for 6 tons, usually from March 15th to May 1st. The frozen road beds could support more weight in the middle of winter, but the bridges can't handle any more!
Bob, it's true that the bridges capacity wouldn't change. Here's an abstract from a Minnesota study on this very topic. The bridges along the chosen routes were inspected to ensure that they could handle the increased load. I guess that the bridges were built with excess capacity. http://www.mrr.dot.state.mn.us/research/pdf/200425.pdf The whole things seems to indicate that "bridge law" may be a misnomer and it should more accurately be called the "roadbed law".
No my time line wasn't off and I'm not contradicting myself. The federal weight law leaves a lot of special conditions up to the states. For example all states decide things like length and hight and many more but they still can comply with the basic federal bridge formula. There are around 35 states that follow very closely to the federal formula now. The formula gives them basic guide lines for axle spacing, axle capacity , groups, GVW, ect. It should be used everywhere and all antiquated laws like the one in south carolina that destroy the roads should be thrown out.. It would stop all the confusion about weight laws. It would give us the freedom to take our trucks anywhere anytime be legal and have larger payloads Just put a little planning and research into specing your equipment. And remember another little phrase (that's why I have wheels on my trucks) And have the backbone to use it. I have read all of the state weight laws at least to some degree and I did not find any where we would not be better off with the federal law. Some of these laws bring new meaning to the word stupid.
How about explain to me in detail how I could carry more weight under the bridge formula. I will not be able to gross any more than the 80,000 lbs that I do now, and if my trucks get 30' longer, the empty weight will go up. If you want to bring a bridge formula compliant truck into SC, you can gross 80,000, too. How do you put a bridge formula compliant truck into a 10' wide driveway off of a 20' wide road? What state uses a maximum height other than 13' 6"? After you answer these questions, consider Michigan; They can carry a very large load on short trucks, and have less weight per axle than the fed formula allows.
Yes but I m a little pushed for time I'll get to your answer in a day or two but the fed could be a good thing for you too
:roll:falldownlaugh
Mitch504 I need to have a little more info to answer your questions 1 weight of your rock buckets dry 2 wheel base and axle spread 3 and most important outer bridge (distance in inches center of your FRT AXLE to center of your REAR MOST AXLE Also a little description of your business (type hauls )how much do you use the interstate and could you use the interstate more and if not why not. Is there any type hauls you would like to have or , might be more profitable
As to your question about hight. Most of the western states are14 and 14.5 most of the eastern states are 13.5 and 13 I also I seem to remember a couple of oddball states that were 12 or 12.5 somewhere in the east.
Mich 504 try to be as accurate as possible on outer bridge and weight Remember I am trying to help. (This could be a good thing) you may not hate the bridge formula if it makes you money
Thanks for helping all of us, we were lost without you. If you really want to help stop double posting as you are making more work for us moderators. Have you ever actually driven a truck? Seriously...
Yes I am very glad you are willing to help me understand the trucking business, because if you don't count the time I spent growing up around it, I've only spent 27 yrs in the trucking industry. I cut my fleet back last yr, so now I only have 6 trucks. I have my own interstate authority, though it is inactive now by choice. I didn't ask you to calculate the bridge formula weights on my trucks for me, I can certainly do that. I asked you how I could spec a hypothetical truck that would carry more weight than I do now. My next question was how to spec an 80,000 lb bridge formula truck that could get into a 10' farm lane off of a 20' road.
I assume you would want me to show you a better truck if that is possible. I know you don't believe it but I can. But to do that I need to know what it is going to be compared to. So you will have to spend a few minutes and answer my questions. With your massive and awesom experience this should be a simple thing. If you would do what I ask I will show you how to build a better 80, 000 bridge law truck. This truck might out produce your present equipment. I will also give you autocad drawings with your delivery depicted with the proposed rig negotiating the turns if it can. You never know I actually might be wrong Also if I have time I will work the weight and balance of both rigs. By the way I have almost twice the experience that you claim
I have only been doing this for a few days. I just discovered this forum thing. I was addicted instantly. So please excuse my ignorance and let me add you guys are great fun.
I know I seem like a smart axx but I actually would like to help. Try to have an open mind. I could be a good thing. Don't let me get under your skin.
This thread has gotten to be both informative and entertaining at the same time. Sometimes a little controversy brings about a few new viewpoints. Re The bridge formula truck that can negotiate the farm roads, what are you running now, and what is the payload? To me, payload is all that matters, not gross weight. Superdumps meet bridge law and can net up to 26 ton, depending on the state. In the most restrictive states they can still get 22 ton, and have the abilities of a 10 wheeler on the jobsites.
Jerry, I am running a short tandem tractor and a 24' dump trailer. In the area I work, I can gross 80,000 lbs w/ this truck, and have a payload w/ full fuel tanks of 26.75 tons. It is very manueverable. I am very satisfied with them. He said that I didn't understand that I would be better off if I were forced to follow the bridge formula. I have been trying to get him to show me how.
Maybe you could describe your experience for us. And I'm still waiting for an explanation on how a "universal bridge law" that still has each state making changes to it as they see fit is any different that what we have now.:beatsme
That is some kind of light for an end dump. I guess it helps keep the weight down by being so short. Around here, about 23 ton is all you can net in a common end dump suitable for construction use. There are light weight ones, but for material haulers only. Sounds like it works for your area, and a few local states, but you could probably only haul 20 ton or less under bridge law with that set up.
only about 16, actually
I did not say this was a superdump but I did say I would design Mitch 504 a rig that would be better than the rock buckets he thinks are so great. He challenged me to do that. Now if he is not going to tuck his tail I will spend my valuable time and Attempt to do that. I ALSO challenge anyone to show a me a configuration and specs that I can't beat. I believe I am the best. Not hypothetical but actual trucks they own and were dumb enough to buy .There may be things I don't know but I doubt it. I don't think there are many people in the dumper business that know squat. Get a little fire in your belly and prove me wrong. I out of the goodness of my heart may actually teach you something. I also challenge any one on there stupid weight laws. I will prove the fed is better for everybody. One size could fit all. Who knows Trucker 68 knows General dump business only not specialty trucks, I will get to them later. Come on gurus and experts I will show you how the cow ate the cabbage.
opcorn opcorn opcorn
I am sorry I thought I had made the point that the fed was a usable universal law and it would be a better way to go. Not the only law. As for my experience 50 years owning driving and advising trucking company's.and at one point in my career I was a test driver for one of the larger O E Ms. You can thank your lucky stars that I would even talk to you super moderator
Jerry where can I get info on this super dump Sounds to me like it could be something that belongs in the toilet
You're right.... you do sound like a complete smart axx, however I'm willing to learn. I only have 14 years of experience and 2 trucks at the moment, and like Mitch504 I am struggling to survive in our current economy. So if you have knowledge you would like to share that's more than telling us about the bridge law like we have never heard of it before then please do. While you're at it I would like to see some pics of your 30 truck fleet. :notworthy
I guess we will all be in the dark a while longer.