background: My trucks (all triaxles) run 385 or 465 float steers and highway tread drives. I'm in FL so we're in sand, not much rock or mud. The owner believes major-brand tires give the best value for your money, but the shop foreman has snuck in some Chinese rubber.... 1) In this thread, Ford LT-9000 says dump truck steer tires last about 6 months and drives last a year. That seems really short! What other experiences do y'all have? 2) Every truck I see on the road with a lift axle has a single tire per side on the lift axle. Photos of new trucks have dual tires. Why do people single them? Reduced scrubbing? Aren't they giving up load capacity? Our trucks have an empty wheel on the inside of the lift axle. Isn't that just 200 lb of dead weight? If we continue with single tires, should I remove the empty wheels? 3) Does anyone have experience capping float tires? If you wouldn't cap them on a steer, how about capping them as super single drives? That's a hell of an expensive tire to throw out after one use!! 4) Should I ask this one? Do you have noticeably better (or worse) results with any brand of tire? The OEM tires on our Petes were Bridgestone and they didn't last well, so the owner won't give them another shot. But I have a great relationship with the Bridgestone guy and trust his judgement. So I'm torn between following my boss' experience and using my Bridgestone guy's knowledge.... 5) or 4b)? I won't continue the foreman's experiment with Chinese tires I've never heard of, but what about the bigger names from Korea like Kumho and Hankook? thanks!! kevin
I'll try and help since no-one else has jumped in yet,although most my experience with tires has been from trucks mainly on road,so it may not be accurate for more off road driving. That would depend on amount of off road,and total miles driven.Steers(11R22.5)will last me 50K-125K depending on brand,balance,etc.Drives(11R22.5),Caps 125k-175k,virgin 175K-350K.A dump truck on/off road will decrease those numbers,guessing about atleast 1/2 - 2/3rds. There are different types of tag & lift axles.Some steerable,some not,some duels,some not.Singling them helps decrease scrubbing.A super-singles can carry as much weight as tandems.The smaller diameter tires are so they can be lifted high enough to clear the road,and still provide extra capacity.I think tags with the single smaller tires add about 10k capacity to the truck. I don't know why you've an empty wheel.It may be for spacing reasons,or it may be able to be removed. I don't have experience with capping floats,but do with the regular drives.I wouldn't use them on the steers.I would cap them for drives.Regardless of you're feelings on caps,I would never throw the casings out,they are worth $$$ for trade in on new tires.Caps (their casings in most sizes,except floats)run around $175-$225.Your casing capped about $125-$150.Virgin w/o trade vary alot,but between $300-$475/tire.A "worn out" trade in virgin casing,no exposed steel,no excessive puncture damage should give you $50-$75 trade in price. For drives my preference in order is Bridgestone 726,Michelin XDHT or any of the XDA,Goodyear(forgot #),and current I've run two sets of Coopers ,which I've had good luck with.These drives are traction tire Model444.I've gotton 350K miles out of my first set,and will with my second.8 tires w/trade in of old virgin casings,installed,w/FET,was $2300. Steers:Michelin XZA 1,2,and 3's are all good.Goodyear 395's are good,397's not so much.The rest have marginal steers at best,including Bridgestone. I Don't have experience with Korean tires,but I've used the Chinese "Double Coin" brand and have had acceptable luck.I just puchased a set of their steers for my dump truck.They were $269/tire,and had a greater weight capacity,and 16ply rating then the others I'd looked at.(10.00R20) I can't say yet how they'll wear. I've been a big fan of Bridgestone drives,although they are expensive.Michelin has also impressed me.I've tried many brands of steers,and always go back to Micheln because of how well they wear.My drives wear at a rate of about 12-14K miles /32nd of thread,on road. Sorry I can't be more help with the dumptruck mileage wear.But it's a start. Good Luck!!
The reason why we don't get much life out of steer tires is our roads are not straight. I only get 13,000 miles out of a set of steer tires on my 95 F-450 I run LTX M/S Michelins. For drive tires and the heat you guys deal with I wouldn't run anything heavy lugged. You also can't run bandag retreads because of the heat its all what we run here for drives is Bandags or Goodyear or Oliver retreads. Running supersingle drives no way stick with dual wheels. If your running supersingles on the lift axle run the steer tires to 30% and have them recapped for the lift axle. As for Brands stay away from DOUBLE COIN they are crapola you should look at Kelly Spring Field. The Hankooks are okay one of the trucks I worked on had them super single steers. Alot of trucks here run Goodyear super singles seem to work okay. Like I said we use recap drives so what we get are mixed brands with the same tread cap. Running virgin drives doesn't make much sense for us because its expensive to replace. For supersingle steers don't buy the cheapies the steer tires are the most important tires they make or break how the truck handles. I would probably say Michelin for Steers something like their XTE2 Widebase The Goodyear G286A SS is a popular supersingle steer for dump trucks in this area. Your best bet would be talk to your local tire shop and see what they reccomend. What is used here wouldn't work as we have different conditions.
Re: caps - Not sure if any of you guys have seen this site Retread.org . It has lots of tire info and tons of retread info specifically. Sorry I can't be of more help Kevin.
Those crap tires are the reason for short life span. I had them on a 86 GMC Jimmy. Worst tires I ever ran in my life. Wore like crap and had no traction.
I'm running 3 sets on a Silverado, Avalanche and Blazer and like 'em - wear rate is decent and traction is plenty for what I need. I'd call it light off-road, not rock crawling or deep mud holein'. They are sure no All Terrain T/A's for traction I'll admit, but only give 1/4 the noise on the road. BTW - that Michelin LTX M/S is a love it or hate it tire, I've never met anyone that's run them and said "they are OK".
I've had mixed results from running caps.It seems that the quality of the finished tire has alot to do with the place doing the recapping,and less to do with the actual casing brand,or cap manufacturer. It seems like if I have one cap fail,from a particular supplier,then often others are soon to follow.And then from a different place the caps will run until they're just plain worn out. For winter traction I've been very happy with some of the Bandag caps,although they don't seem to last as long.It may sound ridiculous,but I've fealt that the caps provide better traction in the snow.I can't explain why that would be though???? Goodyear has a cap out now that is endless,no splice.They have too stretch it out to get it over the casing.That seems like a good idea to me. The farther I have to travel from home with the vehicle,the less likely I wil be to use caps.But for local work,they are my first choice.
I've got Michelin caps on my 550 now on the rears and they seem to be lasting as long as the original Bridgestones. I've got lugged tread on the rears for off road and snow, they are working real well so far. Many companies around here run caps on the rears.
All this talk of caps brings back bad memoies of when I was 18 working in a tire store doing recaps. I still have scars on a couple fingers (first knuckles) from that job pulling the rubber off tires when they came out of oven. Man I hated that job. Orchard my main beef with the LTX was in the snow. In the dirt, lite mud, and road they okay I quess but in the snow they were horrific (sp).
I usually run bandag recaps on my dually trucks they last a long time the last set last me almost 4 years. The rubber compound is so hard it wears like iron the ones I get are Commercial Traction deep the tread depth is 21/32s never had a blow out yet. As for the LTX Michelins the reason why I run them for steers is they give the truck a better ride. The Bridgstones I used to use pealed off even quicker. The XPS Michelins are the best but they are 250 dollars each a little pricey but they do wear better. My current 95 450 it came shod with brandnew Toyo M-55s on the drive wheels those tires are wearing faster than the recaps ever did. I actually don't notice a difference from a virgin tire over a recap. As for dump truck tires if your doing short hauls recaps are fine its not like your doing highspeed driving. With recaps it doesn't hurt as bad if you ruin a tire on a sharp rock that gashes a sidewall.
Side topic not quit off. Anyway any time I am on interstate always see were some truck lost a recap. So I was wondering/thinking how many accidents are cuased by some truck trowing a recap. I would hate to be behind them when it happens. Heck I hate flying (yes a bit of a lead foot) down hiway and having one in middle of my lane.
Failed retreads are from abused tires even new tires explode and leave debris on the highway. I bet 99% of the recaps that blew apart was under inflated. The trucks that gross 140,000lbs pulling the 10-12% grades we have here are running bandag or Goodyear retreads. The logging trucks and lowbed tractors are running big power usually the 550 horse power range.
Great responses guys, thanks!! I did the math - to get 70k on a triaxle, you only need single tires on the lift axle. On our newest trucks we have steerable lifts. The rest are not steerable. One of my local tire guys says FL DOT restricts capped float steers to trucks with no riders, and does not allow them to leave the state. He also says the trash trucks run capped float steers because of their low-speed work, but dump trucks don't, because dump truck drivers go too fast. If both of his statements are correct, the trash trucks aren't legal since they have passengers..... He also said Bridgestone floats are designed more for cut resistance than tread wear, and he had a very unhappy customer with worn out tires before he found that out! I'll do some real math and think hard about putting capped floats on the back of one truck. We already have a stockpile of casings.... thanks again! kevin
Kevin, Be sure to let us know how it all works out for you - I'm sure I'll be in the tire market sooner than I want to be. PSD - I can see where the LTX isn't as good in the snow, I agree. Luckily for me I don't get nearly the snow that you probably do. Were (lucky?!) to get 12 - 18" total for the winter, usually in 4 - 6" drops. Other than that just an inch or so that's gone the next morning. BTW - the recap guys swear that more than half of the "alligators" on the roads are from NEW tires that are under inflated, not caps. One of the states supposedly did a study to id them (wanted to ban caps or something) and that's what they found.
Orchard you would think we get more snow up this way. But the last 2 years I think the opposite was true. Or at least close to true. Sure fire way of stopping the snow is to buy a plow. As for the on side/middle of road that is interesting on it comming from new tires. Either way I still wouldn't want to be be there when one came flying by.
:laugh That is absolutely true! I had that happen once on I95. Missed the big piece but took some smaller pieces in the windshield/grille. "Pucker Factor" went kinda high for a minute.
I've blown a few on the road,and had my quarter fenders go bye-bye from the cap flopping around on the casing.:crying When they go,they go quick too!! BOOM,mudflap,hanger,quarter fender........:waving ...Bye-Bye
I should have known that was you Jeff!!! :cussing :cussing I could see you doing it now - but what'd I ever do to you back then?... :bouncegri
It's not just you.I treat everyone that way on the road.:yup I'm not one too discriminate.:nono
Hey y'all! Well, my first two 11-hour days in the dump truck business felt like 4 hours! Ask me again how I feel in a month... :wink2: We're trying out Dunlop tires. I'm gonna drop by the tire store in the AM and chat with them while they put some steers on the the truck we picked up at the Pete store today with a fresh bottom end.... And the boss' husband kinda tweaked the bumper on another truck while trying to fit the truck thru a hole he shouldn't have... I'm posting a new 2-part topic; check it out! kevin
clarification: trying Dunlop SP160 drives, continuing with Goodyear steers. We usually get about a year out of the Goodyear steers. We've been getting 4-6 months out of the assorted Chinese drives. We're weeding those out as best as we can....
It may feel like those two numbers are reversed, by then.:bouncegri Kevin, I imagine there's alot of info in your co. that you couldn't divulge, but since you've a mixed fleet, after mulling over all the data so far is there anything that stands out which you could share, pertaining to the equipment? Any particular brand of truck, engine, or other truck equipment that appears to be particulary higher, or lower in operating/ownership/and related cost? How did the Chinese tires compare in cost per mile to the other major brands? Does Dunlop provide the capping services too,or is that done through another service like Bandag or Oliver?Or are you not going to use the caps? What stood out with Dunlop which led you to choose them over the competition? Thank you for any information you can share with us.:yup
I don't mind sharing a lot of that info, once I work it out.... The Dunlop decicion was made by the owner before I got there. She believes that a Mack is the best, strongest, most reliable dump truck for company drivers, IF you have a good Mack dealer.
Only one truck has empty wheels on the inside of the lift axle, and that's the Autocar, out of service awaiting restoration. thanks kevin
Boy, that "EDIT" button doesn't hang around very long, does it? The 89 Mack has an empty wheel on each side of the lift axle too.
:bouncegri Nope, it sure don't. Steve has it set that way just so I can't go back and delete my "way out there" post after I wake up in the middle of the night and realize that "maybe I really didn't want to post that!" thus forcing me to have to think about what I'm posting before I post it.:crying So they're doing a restoration on it, huh??(the Autocar) Don't be afraid to get pics when it's done.:thumbsup
Some day..... After I increase profits 5 times or so..... :Banghead