Anyone know where one could buy these used or have any plans on how to build the likes of them? https://oldcastleinfrastructure.com/product/ecology-block-2-x-6-x-2/ or https://www.worldblock.com/v-interlock.html If I have to I will buy one of each of the second website and build my own.
I know you live aways from anywhere, (for me it's 50 miles to the nearest concrete plant), but I can buy the blocks and haul a tractor-trailer load home for less than I can buy bagged concrete mix to pour my own, IF, I had the excess energy. It takes 40 80 lb bags to make one of these blocks. At $4.80 a bag, that's $192. I buy them loaded on my truck for $15 a piece in truckloads. You have a truck and trailer to haul them....
I would spend $135 in fuel or more just trying to get to nearest concrete plant here which would be 6 to 8 hr round trip across 50 miles of bone jarring river rock road carrying 5 at time max. Versus driving 3 hrs round trip down same road to nearest town and spending $160 and save my sanity in the process from not driving so much.
Yeah, but enough bagged concrete to make 5 of those blocks is $960!
Yep and they will be used to build my house out of that will be buried in the hillside, after that's done or while doing that I will use them to stabilize the hillside at the bottom of the house. Either way I was going to spend the money on concrete, would love to have concrete truck come out and pump it out or pick up blocks in town, but such as it's the price of living out there. A concrete truck full of concrete would just sink, not be able to climb up a ridge and not get to where the location of where the house is, I seen it was pushing it at 40k lbs 5 days ago. Why such thick walls, well we aren't going to pour bagged concrete fast enough for a wall form of 60' (unless I missed something somewhere), make great thermal mass batteries in winter time, I don't trust bricks to hold the hillside up and even then got to fill them with bagged concrete. If you got a better idea of how to take on such project with using just concrete bags and forms that can be interlocked as each one dries, I'm open for ideas.
Nahh, I like the idea, I was just saying buying the blocks poured at the plant from scrap concrete for $75 a load, vs $960 a load for the same amount of concrete will pay for a lot of driving. What would you get for $160?
That would be the price of 40 bags of concrete here, though I would get several pallets at a time.
Oh, ok. so $160 per block, plus your labor to pour it.
No matter which direction I turn on these mathematics I either spend ton of time or ton of money, question to one is which is most important in life. Labor is free for me to do and if I wouldn't be doing that I would be working on something else, driving is not my forte on what I want to spend my time on.
You could cut the cost of the concrete drastically by not using premix. If you can get sand and stone delivered or have a way to haul a some in and get bags of Portland you can cut it to maybe $80 a yard. Plus rebar. Mine your own sand and it is even cheaper. Simple 1/2/3 mix by volume Portland,sand, stone. Roughly 5 bags Portland, 1/2 yard sand, 3/4 yard stone plus water gets you a yard of mix around 2500psi. Add another Portland and around 3000psi. We mine our sand and get Portland by the pallet. Triaxle of 3/4” and good to go. I would not use it for anything structural but for mafia blocks and setting posts it is plenty good.
Well, I've always said to have anything you have to spend time or money, it just comes down to which you want to spend. It makes a difference that I can haul 14 blocks at a time, too. I wouldn't think it would be very hard to build these forms.
I guess I don't see the difference in weight or the hauling. If you are bringing the bags in as pallets as mix or as poured blocks, the weight is the same. I get the travel distance difference, but that would more than be offset by the labor in mixing and pouring blocks and likely the poured blocks are far far cheaper than buying the mix- as you said, money is a issue and the blocks will be cheaper than the mix. Now I could see a advantage if you don't have big enough equipment to set pre poured blocks, but if you are going to set the forms up on site and pour, you still will have to move and set them, unless you plan to pour in place. I'm thinking a 3 point mounted forklift mast on the tractor I saw on your trailer, and make the trips to buy the blocks whole, rather than as pallets of mix. If you can't make it up your hill, unload 1/2 of them down at the bottom and make a couple extra trips. How many blocks do you want to pour? If its just a few you would be better to just make up some forms like the old simons wood forms. The steel forms are for making the same blocks over and over and over again. If you just need to make 10, I'd form up blocks with wood forms and pour as you go. You don't need to buy the fancy forms to make the shape you want. Wood is cheap. I'm going to suggest if you are making and pouring on site, to not mess with "blocks". Just form it up and pour as you go. The old timers built dams without water stop or anything- with just wood forms. Form up and pour a 4' x 6' by whatever depth your wall is or whatever you feel like mixing up. Strip forms the next day and build on the next piece. The blocks don't sit tight with each other very well, and if its the wall of your house, a formed and poured wall will be far- far better. And actually easier to do given your site distance constraints. I was also going to suggest the buying in bulk the sand rock and portland, but then dump trailer will be in order .
I didn't know how long concrete could set up before you ran out of time to pour the next layer. All I see is people pouring a whole formed wall at once and seems to be limited information on concrete online and in books in drying times or pouring time. Reason I was picking those fancy forms is to have it where they locked as I stacked them and I have front end loader for that tractor to build forks for. Which thanks for the insight of an idea if I can't get up the ridge offload some and come back and get them, though main reason for hauling so little is I can only hold 16k on that trailer.
I've poured my share of concrete. How big a wall do you want to build? 10' high 30' longx 30" deep? twice that big? 1/2 that big? I think everyone can help out if we know more what the end result you are looking for is. Ever read about building hoover dam? They pour a section at a time and the next pour ties into the one before it. They don't pour that in one shot, and you don't have to either. What I was getting at and mitch is too, that the 16k on the trailer that you can haul, is that it doesn't matter if that's 4 pallets of mix, or 4 blocks, volume is the weight. The only part you aren't hauling is the water. Blocks cost less, but are further away, mix costs more but is closer. Mix is more work on site. Blocks are more driving.
Would be 8' in height and then if you look at attached picture of where the tires are in black circles it would be 62' for back wall about 20' on each side on side walls and then the taper down to ground such as in this picture. I'm building a passive solar home, not a Earthship where they pound in 900 plus tires like ants.
So you are wanting a concrete wall where the tires are. I wouldn't do that out of eco blocks. It will leak between the blocks and be a pain. Think of it as pouring the wall just like adding lego blocks. Form up and pour what you can reasonably mix in batches. If you get your loader up and running, a 8' tall wall would be a breeze. Here's how I would do it with what you have for equipment 1: if you had a 3 point mounted forklift mast, a loader full of rock/ dirt for counterweight. Mount a mixer on the forklift Pto drive. A twin cylinder mast would be ideal to make your forklift mast out of, it gives you room for your pto shaft. Mixer lowered, with tractor on the future home floor level. Load mixer. When mixed, unhook pto shaft. Back up to forms and dump mixer. You could do your home floor the same way working your way out after you do the walls. 2: If you don't have the forklift mast, you can probably do it with the loader. Mixer on ground. PTO running mixer from tractor. Load and mix. Disconnect PTO, turn around and pick up mixer with loader, carry it to the walls and dump. Repeat. If you want to use the loader. The first concrete pour I would make would be about a 3' x 3' x3' square, with two side pins and two angle irons sticking out the top. This becomes a counterweight to mount on the 3 point of the tractor.
I made a drawing for you. Start the first day with blocks #1 formed. Pour. Second day form and pour #2's and keep stair stepping down the wall. When you aren't pouring and waiting for concrete to set up, your forming. After you have a piece poured, place a 2x in the top of the unset concrete, making a groove. Pull it when the concrete is partially set up. This becomes the tongue for the next block up the wall, locking the pours together. You can do the same thing on your end board forms, attach a 2x2 in the center, making a groove for the next "block" to flow into locking your sections together side to side. And just kind of figure on pouring a 2x8 or 2x10 or so height, each time you pour. It won't be the prettiest smooth wall, but it would be way better than blocks stacked together. Are the cisterns for radiant floor heat/ cooling with the pipes in the floor? And then you need pipes in the wall? Or are they just for water storage. Also for mixing all this concrete- What have you got for water onsite? Just rainwater storage or is there a pond or stream? Water may be a issue.
Cursive writing eh, that's rare to see now days. I have a ravine that will be damned up that will catch the rain water and I can either A go into town and get water or B get it from the river halfway between the town and my home, either way I have access to some. Those are water cisterns to collect rainwater off the roof but I won't have those there, bad enough the damage I will do to existing trees that don't grow back fast,. My water cisterns will be on the sides. Don't care if it's the prettiest smooth pour they do make mortar to level it out, and yes I knew the blocks would leak but was going to butter them like bricks before I put each one down, though now I will just build and do as the concrete forms you are talking about. Except no reason to go 2' thick anymore as according to my studies anything over 16" is a waste in passive solar home, so that will save few hundred bags.
Spud, you seem handy with fab. Have you considered a used up mixer truck bought from a R-mix company? A few calls made may find you a mixer that has enough issues that they aren't willing to repair it anymore, but would work as an off road unit. As others have said, get the raw materials on hand and roll your own concrete. A short conveyor line with a hopper at the bottom can batch the truck. If you have a small skid steer and a bank to back the truck up to, you could widen the charge hopper enough to dump the loader bucket into it.
Funny- I had actually written something similar all out, but erased it as being too much work for no more wall than he has to pour. My idea was pulling the mixer off the truck (find one with a dead truck and a "mostly" worn out mixer), build a hopper and chute to load with the tractor (ramp if needed). Run the mixer off the wet kit on his semi. Unload the mixer into the loader bucket, haul to walls and floor. 6-7 yards at a time. Getting the mixer off the truck makes it a lot easier to load. My other concern was having enough water to make the large batches.
Y'all going to drive my wife nuts with giving me ideas like this though is feasible, problem is how far away I would have to haul said equipment. This is Montana, they don't have many people here and even less amount of equipment and even lesser amount of equipment they will let go of. Got plenty of water, and I do need to build a shop or two besides the house so it might seem feasible...
A clapped out precaster special isn’t hard to find, just gotta know where to look. With no water reducing admixtures you’re gonna need about 35 gallons of water per yard. With low range and high range if you’re fancy the water goes down a lot.
Yeah that's the problem, knowing where to look. Will scour across the world wide web and see what pops up.
Alright lets drag this one on home, this would work and it is a 6 x 6 drive if I am looking at the front axle correctly. https://www.truckpaper.com/listings/trucks/for-sale/194854475/1985-advance-fdm
I'm a couple degrees south of you, and a lot of degrees east of you. I've never lived through a winter in your area, so that's understood. Earthships are designed for and work decent in the four corners area, if I was you, I'd be moderating that design for your climate, less mass, less glass, more insulation. Also, in floor heat, GRAVITY, wood fired I'm guessing. 16" concrete is mostly wasted for thermal storage and strength. Arch that back wall and you could get away with 4-6" reinforced concrete back there, that would be more than adequate for the solar gain you'll get and economically store. The soil behind the concrete can sub for the extra concrete, neither one will do squat day to day. For your climate, look up sand bed seasonal storage if you're still considering seasonal storage, that is, thicker than a couple inches from surface. you can hook the wood heat to that, unless you're way sunnier than I'm assuming, you'll be using the wood heat, and the storage will make it easier to use. Or forget the concrete and build a block wall, much easier than forming, mixing. Or if you have lots of rocks, slip form the walls with stone layered with concrete/mortar. repowerguy, what do you think of this one? decent price? probably make a $1,000 difference if it was closer, but it's the range of what I see advertised. Call your local redimix place is probably the best answer. https://wausau.craigslist.org/hvo/d/minocqua-1985-advance-fdm-mixer-truck/7188365381.html
The front discharge Advance is the best way to place concrete hands down. An Advance will plow through mud where a rear discharge or an Oshkosh front will be stuck. The single frame Advance [ and Phoenix and Maxim] will move and twist and flex to keep going. Now the bad news, that same single frame is good for about 15 years or so then the stress cracks begin usually at the spring hangers and behind the rear pedastal on no tag axle models. On an old TET-Advance from the 80's it's likely to have been re-railed before so it could be fine. At $5500,well that's maybe about $500 more than what I would spend on a 85 model front. Show up to buy with cash and your best middle eastern haggling game and it may well be yours. The usual mechanical and drum inspections beforehand are expected.
I have planned to arch the walls along the back with if you look at the plans they include insulation along the back wall. I have studied Earthships for over 10 years now and understand the whole functionality of them and they have one built in Canada where it's close to the climate that is here. Way it works is sun comes in winter time and hits back wall that will store the heat along in to the floor which having porous bricks wouldn't retain the heat as solid pour would and in summer the sun only comes in where the greenhouse or front foyer is gets it hot and as the heat escapes through top hatches it pulls by convection cool air from cool tubes in back of the house to front of the house. The roof unlike Earthships will be buried under few feet and it being clay I doubt water will trickle down that far even so it will be covered with vapor barrier/waterproofing for any droplets that make it down and the roof will slop back and be arched too. No rocks here only silt stone and rarely can find scoria that's not worth picking up, though there is clay rocks here that are fragile. Sixteen inches may be too much but there is no 100% way to know unless you are engineer in this field of thermal mass and what is in this climate, it's just what the max is on this thickness, I will experiment with time before I start building. As for sand bed seasonal storage I will divulge deeper into that later tonight, seems interesting. There will be backup heat in the house, but from what I experienced last winter staying out there towards the end in a camper it's not too bad.
https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...m=a2700.wholesale.deiletai6.10.78da3b7cJjRPzn "Ready to ship!"
Probably would break in transport before it got to the property
When Pour the walls need to continuous pour or will leak at every seam regardless the sealant or rebar or any other attempts to not allow to leak, same as will ECO Blocks. The key to concrete is Solid Base Footer then situate wall atop that, pour as dry as can accept into forms then use vibrating compactor(Donkey DIck) to force trapped air and water to surface. Too wet all the aggregate floats out to bottom, all together Too dry and air will not escape nor will the mix adhere well to aggregate. Is a science to this.
Do what you want. My suggestions: based on your elevation and latitude, I bet you don't have a lot of cooling degree days? no two week stretch of hot humid weather expected? Ditch the cooling tubes, those are a poor cobble job patch for an overheating earthship in AZ in August and September when the temp is at the highest, and the sun is already going lower in the sky. Open your windows at night, and close them during the hot days, and I bet you never miss AC. Humidity/condensation is one drawback of mass, why you don't see mass used as much outside of the West. In FL you'd want a doublewide on blocks, least mass. I'd guess you can live with it, but you'll have more issues than AZ, NM, CO, and UT. Less glass, 20x60 is closer to the doublewide. I'd want a more compact footprint to be able to heat it comfortably when the snow is blowing horizontal for days on end of below zero. They put doublewides all across Canada I'm sure, but I wouldn't recommend it. I know the theory, I've seen them in the midwest, it's not pretty, I've never seen them in their native habitat. I know what I've done and how it's worked, and what I'd do differently next time. Earth sheltering or underground/earth cover is nice for blast protection/emf/emp but it's a bitch to waterproof. Insulation aboveground is cheaper than underground.
Where I live at there is very low humidity, only gets 13 inches of rain a year and ton of sunlight! Storms move through fast cold fronts and heat waves last a week at most unless some freak storm or one is lined up behind the other one. I'm curious of where you got your experience/knowledge from, built something of your own, been in or built any of them i.e. passive solar homes, earth bermed homes or Earthships?
If were doing a home pour and i couldnt get ready mix id find one of these. Easy to fix up an old one and easy to maintain. I have worked with these up in logging camps over the years doing shop floors ,we did a small dam (10' high) for the camp water system with one. Id bet you could scout out one of these somewhere.
Then only need a front end loader to move it to the foundation site.
https://dubuque.craigslist.org/hvo/d/dyersville-concrete-mixer-parts/7189711794.html If you're set on concrete mixed yourself, then this might be a good way to go. Probably find one closer though, and be worth it to spend a little more. If you do head this way with an empty trailer, bring me an old rust free pickup, I'll pay your gas money here only half kidding.
https://www.foxblocks.com/ Built a few houses with these won't use anything else
I was going to suggest those ICF blocks too, I am not sure if they would work in that application or not but they sure are slick to build with.
Ah ICF's yes I thought about them though problem with passive solar home is they will insulate from collection of heat in winter time when sun shines on the wall. Not me set on concrete mixing it's, you aren't getting a 70k lb cement truck up the last 3 miles of ridge and when you get to the property where house will be sitting in behind a U shaped ridge of different elevation which then will require a pumper truck too. I know cause well I tried it with my rig at 28k lbs and sunk it after this picture.
And this is where it got stuck. Where I’m standing is where the house will go.
You've got a longer wheelbase, poor weight balance for traction, and undriven axles. A mixer would make it, wouldn't need much of a road smoothed out. They go crazy places and get stuck all the time, farmer/hippie bridges are the worst. If they get stuck, all they care about is being able to transfer the load to a second truck, and get pulled out by something, eventually. Collapse a bridge, even a small one, it ruins your morning. I haven't thought of a way to do ICF with the mass open to the inside. I suspect most solar people are too individualistic to use a product like THAT anyway you and me both Spud. Check your private messages.
I had been interested in ICF for the first few years was out, then heard are Termite haven as cannot tell the little critters get into it until too late. In MO not a good prospect as they are EVERYWHERE!! Have a concrete contractor that continues to watch updates to materials where is a PVC Perma Form now, not holding much value to it currently but feels may be way to move future as set the forms, flow the mix wait two days pull jacks and leave. Slick Smooth face White and Clean, does not require waterproofing externally basically finished to inside never needs paint.
You need this. https://www.terramac.com/attachments/rubber-tracked-concrete-mixers.asp
Dave, are you referring to something like this ? https://permaform.com.au/
That would be them
There ya go, find a Old Marooka, then find a old 5-7 yd self contained mixer in a yard, set it up to slide into dump bed on marooka and TADA!! Have a rough Country mixer and dump truck all in One!!!
Actually got quiet the perfect weight balance traction on the back, 500 plus lbs of batteries in front almost on rear axle, 200 gallons of fuel behind the rear axle, 834.5 lbs of water on other side of the batteries, 200 lbs of solar panels over rear axle, now for the weight of tools on board... When the wheels start spinning on hard dry ground going up a incline on the rear you know you are on a steep incline. Now those look doable.
One thing to keep in mind is that you’ll want to have air entrained in the concrete if it’s exposed to freezing weather. If you make your own you should specify type 1A cement. Type 1A has an air entrainment ad-mix in it. 1A will be a little hard to find but I think that Fairborn and Miami still make it. Just a little inside baseball.
Spud, I understand why you don't want foam but lots of your sunlight will be on the floor. I've made small forms of pink foam braced with 2x4s cause my area doesn't have termites. You might be able to use a foam with built in insecticide on the outside if you wanted. Anyway, a map of termite risk.
Have seen all manner of idjits putting ICF on Earth Contact construction only to have Truss damage and sheetrock disintegrating as the little monsters take over. Several less than 10 year old constructs had to be torn completely down from this.
Looks like almost the same concept as aircrete just with aggregates instead of without them. Not just termites we have a problem with, we got voles, badgers, prairie dogs, mice and etc... I could imagine how useful underground in their homes this would lend them a hand in having a home too in my expense. Also I'm in that yellow area of termite risk though yet to see any, wood has been out there over 30 years and still not rotted.
Right at 6% air entrainment is ideal to stop spalling and shelling on exterior concrete in freezing climates. The old fashioned type 1A cement is an easy way to make air entrained concrete without having to use an ad-mixture. At one time 1A was the way to make air entrained concrete before ad-mixes became mainstream.