Hi Guys.. I know this is a stupid question because I've watched countless videos on this but its kickin my azz. I'm trying to hook up my 240v air compressor.. I have a double pole 30a breaker in the box.. when I test EACH LEG separately, I get 120v ..screw to ground. BUT when I test ACROSS EACH LEG I get a big fat ZERO..0v.. shouldnt I get 240v..?? Its 2 friggin wires & a Ground.!!! Same thing w/ the compressor hook up.. Black to existing Black.. White to existing White.. so simple a monkey could do it.. but not me.. I get 120v on each wire touching to ground but 0 across each other.. PLEASE help this idiot out..!!
probable cause: both input sides of breaker hooked to the same phase. Check to see if both breaker input wires are hooked to a single input. Happened to me once, wired wrong by a "electrician"
Service entrance boxes have two bus bars (legs). 120 volts on each and out of phase. No doubt your two lines are on the same bus bar in the box. You do have a 240 volt breaker and not two separate 120's I hope. I have seen two 120's used for 240. But they must have a screw with a nut threw the handles joining them together. That is probably code prohibited nowadays. It should be.
Tinker> I have a single 240 breaker.. Ken>> THATS problably the problem.. I had a "Jack-Leg" come & wire in my panel, lights & recept.. I had to kick him to the curb because after 8 days he couldnt figure out WHY the wall switch only works 1/2 the lites.. & HE INSTALLED EVERYTHING..!! I have his card in my hand but dont wanna call him.. Ken>> do u know how to fix that.. before I call a REAL electrician.??
Could you post a picture or two
He!! NO.. it takes more than a monkey brain for that.. lol
A picture of the box, and a picture of the source (like the 100 amp breaker in the house panel if it's fed from the house) would help a ton. So both ends of the wires that run supply wire to the shed. Check the voltage from each leg of your 30 amp breaker to each of the big feed wires, that should figure out what's going on. Think of this as two 12v batteries wired in series to get 24V (except that in AC, we put the ground in the middle, and make two hot ungrounded wires, and don't start criticizing the analogy) You do have a two space, double pole, that goes on both bus bars, right? not a single space breaker with two handles? And you did flip the breaker OFF, then back ON?
OK, no pictures. Just see if you can find 240 on the wires coming into your box, if you can't, see if you can find 240 on the other end of those wires. That's a good start. This is under a minute of testing if you know the right next step, we might need a few pictures though. If somebody screwed up electrical, all bets are off, like is the cable cut and shorted underground? mixed up wire labels?
I took the panel off the inside house box & tested the dryer breaker.. 240v I see where the jack-leg mighta screwed up.. the bus bar on each side isnt connected to each other on the Main Disconnect coming IN.. so no matter what i do, I'm not gonna get 240.. I have 120 on each side of the panel..2 bus bars coming down & a ground bar on each side..
The bus bars are definitely NOT supposed to be connected to each other. Kinda hard speculating, if the guy couldn't get it to work, there's no way he cared what the code said, and no guessing what he screwed up. Hopefully you have 3 (or 4) big wires feeding from the house, and two of those go to either big lugs on the bus bars, or the two terminals of a big breaker. Do you have 240V between those two wires?
No 240v between the 2 term on the main breaker.. I get 120. each touching each 1 independently to ground
0V between the terminals on the main breaker? Go in the house, or where ever that wire comes from and check the breaker that they feed from in there.
YUP.. its hard to get 240 when all thats feeding it is 120.!! SOB.. gotta call an electrician to re-do the breakers at the sub panel feeding the shop panel.. Gdammit.!!
Just so you're warned. An electrician is probably going to find a lot more wrong than just the way the breaker is hooked up. Might not want to touch any of it without fixing it all, depends on who you call.
Yes, your right.. but its only money.. Lol. The price of pump overhaules just went up.. Lol I found the problem but I dont have the running knowledge to fix it.. Just like pump work i guess.. everybody KNOWS whats wrong, they just dont have the running knowledge to fix it.. & THATS WHY there speciality shops.. lol {how many times have i typed that out..lol}
If you found the problem, then you can fix it if you want. This is much simpler than anything inside a pump. It doesn't have to be dangerous if you pay attention and shut stuff off before working on it, and can follow directions.
You would think so.. lol but its blowin my mind.. I "thought maybe" if i run a "jumper wire" from 1 leg of the 240 to 1 leg of the 120, I'll get 240 going to the shop.. so I tried.. KEY WORD is "TRIED".. lets just say its a good thing I have a big pecker... cuz I only blew the tip off.. Lol.. I dont think she'll even notice.!!?? Time to make some calls I guess.??
You did that in the house? you're on the right track, but follow directions a little better next time. Measure the voltage before hooking stuff together. You've got the 120, you need one of those 120's to be hooked to the OTHER 120 so they add up to 240 between them, rather than O volts between them. You shouldn't need a jumper wire, but find out what's wrong before fixing it. I have no idea how it's hooked up in the house, but we can figure that out easy enough if you want to.
It's times like this I love the fact that in the UK 240V single phase is standard power in ALL domestic installations. Appliances, lights, power sockets, makes no difference. An advantage is that it requires smaller diameter cables for the same current draw. There's none of this 120V to run the lights, power sockets, etc, and 240 to run the stove, dryer, etc. That's just too f'kin complicated. I just made a bowl of popcorn - you boys crack on .........
Oh yeah, nothing simpler or more foolproof than a ring circuit no way even a stupid american could mess up one of those! If I want to run three 12 gauge wires to power a 9watt LED light bulb, that's my right as an american.
I'm outta my element when it comes to electricity.. as far as I'm concerned, its magic..lol I'v made 7 calls & no answers on all 7.. atleast 1 of them had a recording that says we are only servicing Industrial & commercial accounts at this time, thank u for calling & please leave a msg.. Lemme see if I can explain this.. The panel is a sub-panel & only feeds the water pump house & the shop.. Theres 2 large wires coming into the panel.. & its 240 1 wire feeds 1 side of the pump house breaker spade & the other wire comes in & connects/branches off into a 2 spade connectors.. 1 of the spades goes to the other side of the p house breaker & the other feeds the shop breaker. I have never seen this type of breaker before.. they have SLOTS in them for a spade type connection.. The p house has a 20 amp breaker while the shop has a 30 amp.. I unhooked the p house from the breaker & ran the shop to it & got 240 AT THE SHOP PANEL.. I fired up the compressor & let it fill up.. then went & swapped it back.. ALL THE WHILE racking my brain trying to figure out how to get 240 to that breaker.. The p house breaker has 2 slots while the shop breaker has 1.. & only feeds off of 1 side of the 240 coming in..{120}
I need to find out what the p house motor draws.. if its not much, I'll swap out the breaker to a larger 1 & double up the wires.. The compressor draws 15 amps.. & the shop is filled w/ LED's.. {8 or 10} so they dont draw much.. & the chances of the compressor running at the same time the pump house is running is slim..
I am curious as to how many conductors were run to your pump hose and shop. red, black, white and green ? I hope. A ground is supposed to be run to sub-panels from main entrance boxes. Do not confuse neutral and ground. They have two different purposes. That jerk you had do the wiring is gonna kill somebody or even a whole family. I can guarantee he does not know what the NEC is. I have spent many hours reading it. If you do hook the pump motor and the shop on the same circuit be sure you heavy enough wires from the main entrance box to carry the current when the loads are on at the same time. A water pump and a shop air compressor can (depending on size) be pulling a lot of current if and when they are on at the same time.
I'd have questions for you, but I deal with this stuff often. Want to swap E mail?
How about some numbers off the breakers in this sub panel? are these breakers mounted on a bus bar like a breaker box, or are they mounted to the back of the panel with no bus bars? Spade connectors, are these screw terminals with a wiring connector that goes under the screw? or a small 1/4" wide terminal like would fit a flat automotive fuse? or more like an 1/8" thick spade like a busbar tab in some brands of breaker boxes? That 30 amp breaker in the sub panel, is that a two pole breaker? with two terminals on each side. and two wires connected to the breaker with at least one ground/neutral going to the shop? Maybe 10-2 UF on the plastic sheath?
Willie.. mine is my screen name @ aol dot com
Putting two wires on a single lug is a no-no. Don't do it. How many wires do you have going to the shop (sub-panel) ? Should be 4 … 2 hot, 1 neutral & 1 ground (bare wire) If not... you're screwed. Tinker beat me to it … This is the start of fixing your problem. Four wires … No less … Next step is how many feet to the shop from the house panel...? How many amps of "stuff" are you gonna run ? These answers determine wire size...
It’s 50 yards. It has #8 stranded & there’s only 3 wires.. THATS WHY I was gonna double up..
Jeez ! #8 is good for only 55 amps. Doubling up isn't a good idea IMHO. If your are going to run more wires why not 100 amp capacity from the house ? You will never regret it. If you ever decide to sell the place you will be doing all that inadequate wiring over again if an inspector sees it. Keep in mind what an insurance company would do if you had a claim that was due to the wiring that isn't up to code.
Tink don’t be a bummer..!! Lol
Just tryin to look out for you ! I wish i was there with you.
Don't double up on the breaker, keep a separate breaker for the pump, and for the shop. You have 3x #8 feeding this subpanel, what size is the wire feeding the shop? Base the size of the breaker on that wire size, 40A for #8, or 30A for #10. If you already have a two pole 30 amp breaker, but it's only being fed from one of the wires, then you need to feed it from both wires, but that would be obvious. You say this breaker only has one slot, is it half as wide as the 20A breaker for the pump house? Maybe you just need the correct breaker. with three wires feeding that sub panel, and you know you have two hots because you have 240, so you only have one neutral and no separate ground. This is not up to code, and probably wasn't when it was installed (if the pump is 240, then it was fine for that because it didn't need a neutral, your guy turned it into a neutral once he hooked 120 loads from the shop to the three wire feed). This is dangerous if you run an extension cord from the shop back to the house and the ground from the shop is energized from the neutral of 120V loads. If all three of your #8's are insulated, then you could run a separate ground wire and do this right (enough) with not much extra effort.
The ground on a sub panel is established at the sub panel by driving a ground rod into the ground. The three wires going to the sub panel should be 2 hots and a neutral. The 2 hots being 120 volts each when measured to ground and 240 volts when measured between each other.
I'll not argue this but... this link explains why an isolated ground is a bad idea. https://diy.stackexchange.com/questions/52696/why-does-a-subpanel-need-separate-ground-and-neutral
I made this mistake ran 250 feet of #10 Forgot about voltage drop. So I DO NOT have 30 amps of service to my shop. More like 10 amps. See here … https://www.southwire.com/calculator-vdrop
I finally got a callback from 1 electrician.. he called to say he was on his way, just as a storm was rolling thru, rain & 30mph winds.. gotta love lake living.. Then the forecast for the next 2 days are lows in the 20s & hi's in the low 50's.. So I told him to take the rest of the day off & to keep my #'s & to call me when he thinks the weather is acceptable to work outside.. {next week sometime} I'm easy to get along with.. I know I wouldnt work outside in this weather..
A detached building with a new sub-panel installation was required after, I think it was 2008 to have a four wire feed. One wire being the ground. Two ground rods are no longer permitted as a stand alone source for the ground, now. Correct me if I am wrong. I wired my own shop 465 feet from my house with the four wires. After I had it done I had a licensed electrician inspect the 200 amp service entrance in my house (feed to the shop) and the shop sub-panel. He said he would have done it the same way. I had him inspect it because of my concern with insurance and a maybe someday home inspector looking at it.
I think some of it comes down to interpretation and some to local codes overriding NEC. Also makes a difference if the sub panel is in the same building as the main panel or in a detached building. My detached shop building is wired as I described above, although I left out that it has two ground rods that are at least 6 feet apart as required. I called a licensed electrician friend this morning to verify what I was saying was correct and he agreed. He also told me that is how he is wiring his own personal shop now under construction. I'm glad an electrician will be coming out to get this figured out. Please let us know how it all turns out.
All our 240V systems are fed off Triplex feeds into the Main. Two sub legs are Phase angle off for 240V, just having two 120V source off the same leg is still just 120V as Not off phase. I used 2/0 2/0 4/0 triplex to feed the house and shop and barn breaker panels, fully up to code with a stand alone 8' ground rod each at the house at the shop and at the barn. I also ran it all Underground FULLY encased in PVC Conduit. Was 'Splained by a know it all only had to conduit into and out of the earth, where explained BACK that with the triplex fully encased Lightning has less chance striking the Neutral IN the ground. Major failure player in many direct burial systems. Conduit is cheap insurance and as such ALSO protects a excavator from cutting a cable as catch the Conduit first. All here buried to 28" top of Conduit. MAX Run for Triplex is 400' before get unreasonable resistance voltage drop. Transformer on the pole drops Two hots and a Neutral to the meter base, Neutral is bus bar to a outbound lead, two hots feed thru the meter then to Individual Lugs on a main breaker.
Find some local 8 year old, have him take pictures of your panels, and post them up. Don't be afraid of the technology man! Its not like this is injector pumps or rocket science, or electricity.
Got my numbers reversed 4/0 4/0 2/0 Triplex feeder. NEC only required Quadruplex for Commercial Three Phase last I knew.
I also ran 4/0 4/0 2/0 Triplex in conduit. But I laid the ground in it too. A 465 foot run to a 100 amp sub-panel. For the same reasons you did D Miller. That is why I am hoping that the pumpguysc does the same thing. He would never be short on power in his shop.
Your service conductors are three conductors the three points of the secondary winding in the utility transformer. The service disconnect(s) are downstream of the meter. The grounding system joins. It consists of driven ground rods, rebar in your concrete footings, metal underground water line, and other connections to earth. The center tap conductor from utility is connected to earth ground in this enclosure. EVERYTHING downstream from the service disconnect is isolated. Ground does not again touch "Grounded"!!! All sub panels get four c That law changed 199? Now four conductors. Drive ground rods, connect to concrete rebar, ETC. at the outbuilding.
We're long past what the code says. I agree with Willie without proving it, the only grounding connection is the service entrance, so any downstream panels have to have the neutral isolated from ground (just remove the screw for the neutral bus and add a ground bus) with four wire feed, UNLESS it's a 240 load without a neutral, only ground (like TPG's pump house probably was before his guy cobbled into it). It would work just fine though, it has for years and probably killed no one from just a shared neutral and ground. You'd have to be get several things wrong at the same time to get killed. Is your stove and dryer hooked up with a three wire plug? same thing. If I was looking at the wiring in question, I bet it could work just fine for everything he wants out of it, a new feed isn't needed, but I bet that's what he'll get from an electrician. (just like he probably wouldn't take a pump apart and do half a rebuild on it).
No, in most cases code is not retroactive. What was legal when it was installed is legal now. I believe I see a piece of UF 2 wire plus ground from the tandem breaker. That was never kosher. He has several other issues; broken conduit ETC.
What I meant is we all know these additions aren't to code. 2 wire with ground is fine for a 240V only load with no neutral, like his pump probably was.
I've seen quite a few pump houses wired this way, some of them you could tell the PH started life with just a 120v 12/10 gauge feeding it... then somewhere down the road they put in a bigger 240v pump and had to move a wire in the main panel and change wires in the PH for the lights to not blow! and now they have the 120v lights returning to ground
120 220 240 208 277 480 595 115 to name a few I've seen here in the usa. It's more interesting this way
I've run out of popcorn. Send more supplies please ..........
Working in the power station was unique Everything was bonded to ground Every conduit rerod tip anything metal in the plant cross connected with a bolted 4ga copper conductor and all interconnected to grid ground lattice across the yards. NEC is well beyond safety function where even the REA here accepts triplex feeders to common rural structures. Three conductors at pole mounted service supply with ground connected to the Neutral with a 8ga copper conductor to a copper plate at the buried pole butt around 6 1/2 feet in the soil. No separate ground to connect that fourth wire to where they accept a 8’ ground rod (Single) at structure edge. Do not exactly follow NEC specs out here.
If I'm not mistaken there are both insulated conductors of a 2 wire + ground cable connected to the same hot leg. If this functions it is supplying 30 + 30 = 60 amps to the bare ground conductor serving as a neutral.
You do not use four conductors for single phase until you reach the service disconnect. This is the service. Downstream of the service disconnect, there is a ground system. From there on we separate ground from neutral. In this case I believe his service disconnect is on a post outside his home. From this post it branches three ways, home, shop, and pump house. An earlier code allowed three wire 240/120 to outbuildings with electrode at each outbuilding. More recent code does not. No rule I know of saying you need to upgrade to current code if it was compliant when it was installed. I do not believe this installation was ever code compliant.
I'm absolutely sure I might have no idea what's going on. You have a picture at least, I have a description from somebody who's real good at injection pumps
Sorry if I repeat something was said before, I didn’t read the whole thread. Question about neutral wire or no neutral wire to compressor is depending on your control circuit and motor starter ( if you use one), most of starters can be wired in to 220V, you don’t need neutral for that. If yours 115V only - you gonna have to bring neutral to it. Now about “ground”! Ground is incorrect term, the correct term is “bonding”! It means you have to connect all the conductive surfaces, housings, equipment frames, metal inclosures and conductor raceways to that green wire, and bring it back to main service panel so in case any “hot” wire could have touched the bonded surface it will trip the breaker!!! There’s nothing more to it. The real grounding is done ONLY out main service disconnect and got to do with EMF current dissipating in to the soil! It’s almost have nothing to do with actual electrical network!
This is just general information to everyone reading this thread. While I’m at it and in light what happened just recently at the place where I was working on equipment: When you wiring in the transformer ( let’s say 440V to 240V), all the neutrals and bonding conductors must be brought to that transformers center tap!!! And not to main disconnect neutral bus bypassing the transformers center tap!!! Because 400amp fuse or breaker at main disconnect will not trip trying to protect 30amp circuit on the other side of the transformer - there’s no hard connection there! It will burn the wires and set the shop on fire!
Bonding is done between GROUNDED & GROUNDING busses in the service disconnect. It is also done all over the place with hot tubs, pools, and cow barns. Connecting the boxes & frames of electrical equipment is grounding. One of the insulated conductors usually white being connected to earth at the service disconnect is called GROUNDED. We've gone off track TPG has a breaker supplying hois shop giving him 2 30 amp circuits to his shop at 120 volts. This all seems to be done with a 2 conductor cable. He ain't gonna get 240 without some changes. Some manufacturers offer tandem 240 volt breakers. As he still wants to service 120 volt loads, he ought to have at least three insulated conductors. I would want ground also in this cable.
Not an electrician, but I think NEC resolved this grounding-bonding confusion in 2014 edition, because there was people who was led astray by term “grounding” and thought that if they can pound some rods in to the ground and connect green wire to them - they were protecting the circuit!!! Bonding jumper has its name because that’s what it is - you can’t trip the breaker without shorting phase conductor to transformers center tap. The reason why it’s done only at main disconnect because it is closest place to transformer and if you connect bonding to neutral anywhere else you creating parallel circuit and people get zapped just by touching fixtures and appliances bodies of which bonded. And I agree - to have a 240v and sleep good at night run four wires!
Amen to that ! Sums up the pumpguy's situation perfectly. IMHO.
I just remembered, I had an electrical contractor from the power company out here a year ago to give me a quote on getting POWER TO the new shop.. he looked at the box & said, no way.. we gotta run a new wire from the transformer to a meter at the shop.. & cut ALL these trees{face them} ...price was 3 Grand.. & now I remember that's why I went w/ this "jack-leg".. who tied into the existing wire from the old shop that caught fire.. He did some digging in the yard & found it.. so instead of running all new wire from the box at the house 50-75 yards, he only had to run about 25ft.. BUT it didn't matter how much wire he hadta use.. there wasn't 240 on it anyway.!!! That 3 grand is lookin better & better.. I'll just wait to see what this other electrician says..
I have overhead service to my house with the pole in most uncomfortable location! If you have machinery or can ask someone who does and it is not gonna cost you a lot, talk to contractor so he will lay the trench markings for you, dig the trench and lay the conduit and all the contractor will have to do is install the wiring. At least it will be more comfortable for you and less risk of wires getting ripped by falling trees and branches when storm will blow through.
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I've studied code 50 years now. I've always been confused that NEC Rulemaking Committees never cleared up the confusion of Grounded & grounding. For those of us in a single phase world, we live in 240 volt power supplies. Some like to eat half a sandwich at a time. Lots of load we use runs on 120 volt power. The power company transformers have a secondary winding center tapped. If we had no concern there'd be a malfunction there would be no reason to ground this center tap. We want to limit the voltage you might receive as a shock. We ground this conductor. It serves as the return path for electrons to trip a breaker, and electrical shock to earth is limited to half the voltage provided by the transformer. In the language of NEC, the center tap is t "the grounded conductor" The uninformed believe this is equivalent to earth ground. They are very wrong. Earth ground is for a different reason. Electric shock is current flowing through a person. If any errant electrons want to flow, connecting every electrically conductive object together is BONDING. Through bonding, electricity flows through something other than persons. The term extends to where we connect it to earth, or the grounded conductor. The language involves a lot of hair splitting, grounded, grounding, bonding are all different. I explain bonding using the example of a cow barn. In older cow barns cows are chained at the neck while they are milked. Their necks, udders, mouths (drinking bowl) and hind feet (gutter cleaner) are all touching conductors. If there is potential, between any of these conductors, the cow gets a shock. Cow barns are wet. The water contains compounds making it more corrosive & more conductive. There will always be stray voltage. If we connect the milk pipe, water pipe, stantion, water bowl, gutter cleaner, and floor steel reinforcing together there is no reason current should flow through a cow. Milk buyers monitor leukocyte levels (white blood cell). Barns with a stray voltage problem are cured with proper bonding. Bonding alone have been shown to drop leukocyte levels from 1,000,000 to 80,000. There are other problems raising leukocyte, shock is only one.
I would like to see the splice the jackleg buried in the yard.
Lol.. I was with him when he/I bought these Blue Gell lookin gizmos that were supposed to be for underground splices.. {3} I didnt actually SEE HIM do it but the packaging was blowing across the yard.. Lol I was looking at the box & theres NO WAY to get 240 to that breaker.. theres enough room for 1-240 & 1-120.. So I was looking up Main Disconnects on-line & sure enough, they now sell them w/ 4 breakers.. or 4 slots for breakers.. 2-240 or 4-120 The boxes arent expensive{60.00}, but the labor to swap all those wires is gonna be the kicker..
Is your main disconnect outside?
yes it is.. & I have a disconnect for the shop in the panel, inside.
Then it’s even easier, like you said replace the main disconnect. Although you may consider installing generator switch box while you at it, which also main disconnect and has additional circuits and breakers. But those will cost you about $300. But you will be ready for whole house generator connection ( although generator breaker is only 60 amps)
GREAT IDEA.!!! I hadnt thought of THAT till u brought it up.. I use a suicide plug thru the dryer.. lol & I'm as nervous as a long tail cat in a room full of rocking chairs EVERY TIME I do it..
He didn't use these did he???
Those are not underground, those are in box in wet location. Underground must use special heat shrinks.
Similar.. but open on both ends to connect wire to each other that u heat up..
Looks like that was heat shrinks.
Actually, there are a variety of silicone filled wire nuts rated for underground, and direct buried. I've never used them buried, but inside a flush with ground box, it isn't unusual. Landscape lighting is a common use.
Yes, I should have clarified about direct bury and in sealed box. They maybe rated for direct bury, not sure - but I wouldn’t like that.
Think TPG should just go buy a 120V compressor. And a camera. Maybe the camera should be first. Joe H
120v compressor will be super weak! If not gonna require big wires because it’s gonna use whole lot of amps! I have a lathe, which is dual voltage, in 120v I was able to stop the chuck with my hands, I re wired it to 240v and now that thing kicking soft tissues of 5th landing point .
I know but I have seen landscaper(electricians) use em' for direct burial And when PG said blue that was the first thing I thought of LOL!!!
I hooked the compressor in the 240 breaker for the well pump & it fired up, filled up & shut off.. I then switched the wires back.. {just to test it out} I was introduced to a "QUAD Breaker" from 1 of our more experienced members.. THANKS Beu.. THATS exactly what I need.. it takes a 240 feed & splits it in 2.. for different amp feeds.. I'm gonna stick w/ whats in there.. 20 amp for the well pump & 30 amp for the shop.. but instead of 120v/ 30 amp.. its gonna be 30amp 240v..
Are you gonna use the same wires that go to shop now? As far as I understood you have only three wires going to the shop, in order to run 120v lights and equipment you gonna have to use Bonding/ground wire as neutral. But this way you loose protection, nothing gonna trip the breaker in case of fault to equipment body or frame. You can connect bonding to your new neutral, but I don’t think you gonna like the results! It may zap you when you touch something.
Got to run at least one more wire.
Btw, idk how it is where you at, but my friend said that workers for power company around Spartanburg is lazy as hell!!! Both mentally and physically!!! It’s a far cry from Puget Sound Energy and Potelco he used to deal with before!!!
I think you'll find that kind of workers everywhere... I've worked with pse guys and potelco crews.... There's always that kind of workers in the business.
Me too. We commonly use them on these barbecue/hot tub/400,000 BTU propane fire pits the millionaires build at their vacation homes. A single conduit supplies several branch conduits placed in the ground before the masons lay stone walls. When I think of the waste of a 400,000 BTU propane fire pit I'm in shock! Most often it's rich men with daughters building the perfect wedding venue.
Yes using the existing wires is tha plan .. it had 120 w11 leds & a 120 air compressor w no problem.. The lites & 12 outlets are on different breakers.. 120 v air compressor was plugged into a receptacle.. After hooking 240 to the panel & allowing the new compressor to fill up.. I felt around the panel and everything was cool as a cucumber..
I apologize, for some reason my understanding was that you have only one three wire cable going out to the shop! Look at the motors name plate, find FLA amps. That’s should be your running current with full pressure and hot ambient. LRA is your current at which your motor protection and/or line breaker should trip. Then you can calculate your wire based on AWG and distance the size of your breaker. And everything above in 240v or “high” voltage on name tag in case of tag is for dual voltage, or just post the picture of name tag.
Compressor motor says 15amp & I ran 10/2 wire from the breaker box to the compressor motor.. What a b!tch THAT WAS.. All the other wires in the compressor were 12/2 & plyable.. I only used about 4-5’ of wire.. probably shoulda used 12/2 but didn’t wanna run into problems using undersized wire.. Only to find I didn’t even have 240 out TO THE SHOP.. lol.. who’da thunk it..??
Yeh, solid wire is a biotch... they do make stranded(plyable) in 10,8,etc
There’s nothing wrong with oversized wires! Usually solid wires go up to disconnect box, and stranded on equipment side. Does the compressor have motor starter with overload protection or pressure switch just breaks one of the 240V wires?
Done.
Hi Guys, I thought I updated this thread.. guess not.. Sorry. With the help from 1 of our members I think it was Willie B who discussed this "off forum" I got 240v OUT TO the shop.!! He pointed me in the right direction to a series of breakers that would fit AND WORK in my main disconnect.. I NOW HAVE 240 going TO the shop & the compressor runs like a champ.!!! What a life saver this site is.. I would have been at the mercy of the "jack-legs" out here in the country or pay 3 Grand for the electric company to come in & run a separate wire & pole.. & all it cost me was 32.00 for a breaker.. & w/ points from Amazon, it only cost me 14.00.!!! Its SO NICE not to wait on that 120v compressor to fill up.!!! & u wanna talk about quiet..?? The NEW compressor {60gal.} is VERY quiet compared to the old one.!!! I was really torn about putting it inside..{because of the noise} but w/ my back problems & no help, I was stuck.. I had bought enough wire to put it outside {in the future}.. but now with the actual noise level, I doubt it will ever make it out there.. I wanna thank everyone involved in helping me with this problem.. TPG
Have you sent Willie a 12 pack yet?
Glad your up and running! And happy! Kudos to Willy B!!!
I feel less good. He still is using a cable that can't safely provide 120/240. I can accept three insulated conductors. Not so long ago it was code compliant. What you are doing is hazardous!. I hope you can't find me when somebody gets killed. For the record: I object!.
It has 3 insulated.. Don’t harsh my mellow.. lol
Like an art forgery, age it like it was built in the '60's … dirt on the walls, junk piled around, ding the work tables with a chain & ball peen hammer, Pin up vintage Playboy center folds, (take out those LEDS) etc.
Lol!!!!
Yea, strange how some people survived with the old wiring in some houses and such. First house I lived in after getting married had as I recall two or maybe three fuses plus the wiring that supplied power to the electric dryer and electric stove, both in kitchen. This was a good sized two story farm house, two large bed rooms upstairs, smaller one downstairs plus large kitchen, dinning room, living room and bathroom. House I'm in now just for the office I built in one end of the basement has five breakers just for that room! Main panel in house has something like 36 breakers and that does not count the sub-panels in the garage and the barn/storage shed! Some of that is due to the all electric design but still compared to previous house a major upgrade. Also some of that may be due to the fact when we built this house we had a friend who was a disabled electrician advising us! And he liked three-way and four-way switches too!
I like watching the home remodeling shows that find the aluminum wire & it’s junctioned 15x w wire running in all directions..
Its amazing how much stuff them old 30, 50, and 70 amp panels have run in them old houses as long as the penny's under the fuses didn't melt. Would have thought a lot more would have burnt down then did.
Those still confuse me and I need to get the book out every time I work on one!
Not so complicated. It's a round trip. Usually done with both two conductor cable & 3. Use wire nuts to provide the grounded conductor to the "bulb". Supply hot power to the pivot of one switch. Connect the other terminal of the bulb to the pivot of the other three way switch."Travellers" between the switches. Another switch is an X or pass through. Flipping any switch makes the light change. There are about 100 rules to do it safely, but that is the basic stuff.
The theory ain't complicated. Sometimes pulling in the wiring to cater for all the different switch locations is a tad more comlicated........ What's this "bulb" of which you speak..? A sparky once told me the difference between lamps and bulbs thusly - "lamps glow - bulbs grow"
Willie... the example you put up with the 4way switch will not work..... your bulb is burned out...
I too noticed that after I posted. The others aren't LED, so The Efficiency Vermont Police would arrest me if it did.
I have to be multi lingual. A lamp, to an electrician is the component you place in a fixture. Recent code the object on your table, or ceiling is a luminaire. The thing in the wall you connect your cords to is a receptacle, as is the porcelain thing on the cellar ceiling you screw a lamp into. Laymen do not speak the language at all, so I try to communicate. Sometimes I fail.
I find in some cases that a glass of Bourbon helps me figure things out.
240 is two 120v legs, HOWEVER, have to be separate drops from the transformer to the main bus or will not work. Most tandem breakers get one leg from each drop off a triplex feed cable.
At the transformer provided by your utility company you get 240 volts. For some purposes the USA & others believe you don't need 240 volts. Here we cut the sandwich in half. The transformer secondary is center tapped. We get 120 volts from either half of the transformer secondary winding. To utilize both 120 & 240 volts we need 3 conductors. From the transformer to your single family house you have three conductors. One conductor (the center tap) is grounded at the utility transformer & again at the service on your house. If this is done properly, the ground includes concrete foundation reinforcing steel, any conductive materials in contact with the ground, any metal underground water supply. I'm sure I failed to mention some component. If others aren't available we add grounding electrode(s). Everything downstream from your service disconnect needs 4 conductors & we isolate grounding from grounded. These two words sound related, but are very different. The center tap (grounded) conductor is current carrying. We do NOT want grounding conductors to carry current. Pump Guy, I believe had a building originally supplied with a cable with two insulated conductors, enough to be code compliant for 120 volts. A dairy farmer could use his cable to derive 240 & 120 volt power, he'd brag about how dangerous it is. The other problem Pump Guy has is cable size. I recently learned a bit about compressor motors. It has been common knowledge many years that code numbers denote efficiency. My air compressor looks identical to the one at our volunteer fire house. Mine was bought second hand. It had come from an industrial supply. The compressor at the fire house came from Tractor Supply. When we had problems with the one at the fire house starting on utility power, & stalling a generator plenty big enough, I questioned why. I found the run capacitor was bad, replacing it helped. Then I learned the Tractor Supply compressor was supplied with same motor except code L, where mine is code G. Code L requires 9 to 10 times full load current to start. Code G needs 5 to 6 times full load to start.
Great. Now it looks like you resurrected this trainwreck since CM or Digger banned the spammer.