Looking at an Elliot 50t boom truck. Any experience with those. Or any Elliot booms. Our t230 is starting to show some signs of age so it's gonna be taking that cranes place. It'll get used for trusses, ac units, and steel erection. We'll probably keep the t230 as a backup. Want to hear the good bad and ugly on Elliot boom trucks.
I like mine " but I don't know any better" I really don't like the dealership in Ontario, and get my parts and service from the local Manitex dealer they can get Elliott parts faster and with less hassle than the Elliott dealer. I would say the electric over hydraulic pilot controls could be a lot better, but I've been told the newer controls are digital and work smoother. I'm always looking at different boom trucks on line and I would say it has good charts, and if set up properly it will do what it says it will do. I'm not a big fan of the internal a2b wire, it runs through the grease from the boom extention pulleys then in the cold weather it gums up the reel and can cause slack at the change of direction pulley causing it to jump off and run over the sharpe edge of the boom " that little fix was $1,200 " It has one veriable displacement piston pump, for the most part it works well except when I go full winch and then try to slew left or right, it will move very slow but if I don't come off the winch REALLY EASY it will jerk the boom. Mine is a 2006 and this is my forth season with it and overall I feel It was a good purchase, and when I replace it if a newer one is available in good condition I wouldn't hesitate to buy it, as long as it has the newer style pilot controls. If Clasictruckman has his ears on I'm sure he can offer a more relivent opinion he has a newer 40 ton I think.
7- 2012 and 2013 40 ton national's on ritchie bros ft. worth auction. 1,400 to 34,000 miles (three of them are under 3,000 miles). 103' main-no jib. Surely one will go cheap? You want to just send me the piggy bank? I could come home with one for me and one for you.:cool2 If that isn't enough crane- they do have a 50 ton manitex- only 96' stick and I don't think you need tri-drive. The oil slowdown is killing those guys.
That'll be an auction to watch. That 5096 would probably work pretty well. We'd probably have to track a jib down for it tho. But the price of a jib is crazy high. http://www.machinerytrader.com/listings/construction-equipment/for-sale/11976935/2009-elliott-50105 This is the boom truck we were looking at. Problem is we feel like we can get a lot more crane for the same money with an older truck crane. May have to do without the all the added comfort features on this truck but we could probably get a late 90s or early 2000 60-70t truck crane for the same price.
That's a real sharp looking boom truck. Here in missouri I wouldn't even be able to permit that on 3 axles (20k per axle max w/permit) I'd have to add a lift axle. I spent a little while studying the stat sheets, its 26'2" pin to pin on outriggers. My 70 ton is only 23'7"- shoot you're 100 tonner is under 27' isn't it? You'd need 28' to set that up in. I guess my big worry on a elliot is 10 years from now are they even going to be in the crane game? I guess you can say that about anyone, but there's a ton more national, manitex, and terex, out there. My 70 ton is that way now. Its a last of the P&H, just before terex bought them. There's a omron relay in the lower that's no longer available. Obsolete. I don't even know what it does. I'm going to have to get out the tester, figure out what the relay's supposed to do, and then cobble something else in there (before it goes out and I'm stuck somewhere, I saw it when in the box for something else and tried to order one). I built the rotation indicators for the winches. Forget getting hyd cyl. kits, you just tear down, measure, and order. I am able to get lmi parts, but aftermarket, because its a pat system. When I bought my P&H the cost difference to a link-belt or grove made it worth it in my eyes for a odd ball. I gave under $90,000 for it 2 1/2 years ago. A comparable link belt or grove at that time was $180,000-220,000 (which I couldn't swing then- couldn't now ). Now I see a few at 110-150,000. If I could trade even over for a grove or link belt (870 or 8670,8660) I would. At the time, and still today, I'd save the $100,000, its been a great crane. But if I was $10-20k from the other two brands, I would try to scrounge the $. I wouldn't worry about the big things (cylinder-boom etc), its the little expensive stuff like the control valves, lmi computer, rotation indicator, that go bad, and parts will be unobtainium. For $40-50,000 less money, I'd give a elliot a whirl, but no way would I give the same $ for it as I would a national or even a manitex, (wouldn't do a terex, I detest dealing with them). Will they do the same thing-yes sir- and I don't doubt that its a good crane. But they are too small and new to the crane game, I'm afraid the #s are going to make them give up. I don't think there's room in the current market for national, manitex, terex, elliot, and altec. There's not enough of the units to be sold. I've only personally run National, terex, pioneer (owned now by manitex x-frame outrigger version), manitex, simon, and altec. Would spend my own $ on a national. Probably a 40 ton with 127' main, and forget the jib; or if 103' main, I'd need the jib.
This one isn't too far from you, and I'd say the price is right. http://www.machinerytrader.com/listings/construction-equipment/for-sale/12126053/1996-grove-tms870 There's several more with the 138' boom for not much more $ also. I use my smaller crane's a lot, but I sure prefer what I can bill for a larger crane.
If you just want to replace your terex- this one showed up recently- its actually my colors though: http://www.machinerytrader.com/listings/construction-equipment/for-sale/12113131/2000-grove-tms500e
You just named all the reasons we passed on it. Really our biggest concern is parts supply 10 yrs from now. Another concern was the c13 cat engine. I think our 110t is 28' pin to pin. Maybe 26-27' but it's right there. I have people call and ask about what I think about different cranes/tele handlers and manlifts all the time. I have no use for something I can't get parts for. Really it's a lot less hassle to get parts for our 81 tms300 then it is for our 98 t230. And terex is way proud of their parts. Checked price on a cylinder kit for a but 4792 boom truck. (Btw there's a blue million of those out there) it was $950. Cylinder kit for the old 300 was like $280. At some point if the crane is cheap enough it's worth a chance. But really I'm pretty sold on grove and terex. Never been around link-belts enough to form an opinion. We had one that was a pos and dad won't even look at one now. I like the looks of either a t340xl with the 105 boom or a t560. Used groves seem like they're a far bit higher then the terexs.
Heck I could use both of those cranes. You just send me your checkbook and I'll be happy. Lol
That was a nice looking Elliot on the Pete ! And a good deal on the Grove 870 that Crane Op posted . I look at parts support on a given brand a little different than most . Have some equipment that has not had dealer support for 30 years but with all the aftermarket avenues parts are not a problem . Like Crane Op mentioned on cylinders & seals measure & match them up . On hard steel items send the broken part to the machine shop and they will crank out a new one .We are blessed with some well equipped & talented machine shops that aint afraid of a little challenge . http://www.heavytruckforums.com/showthread.php?263-Some-Holmes-750-action&p=1902&viewfull=1#post1902
It's the little #$% on the parts that kill you. New lmi control board for my 70 ton-$3,000 New rotation indicator in my rt- $2,800. The rt has joysticks with a little thumper in the handle, a sender unit on the winch. How do I send that to a machine shop? I tried to have my computer guy fix the old one- he gave up and said get one from the factory. The rotation indicators I built for my 70 ton, I had at least a lever to mount them to, I'd never fit them in a joystick. If the machine has a lmi- it has to work. I can run without a rotation indicator, but I don't like it- especially if I'm in the blind. I like those terex 340's, the only downside to the 560's is some of them run a aluminum bell housing with a special extra outlet for the hydraulic pumps. Like the alum. bell housings on a 3208- they are prone to crack. As I understand it, they were a special casting, just for terex. I've heard they are unavailable, and/or $22,000 (which is almost the same as unavailable). The only used one I've seen for sale was on ebay @ $14,000. And someone bought it. Speaking of the c13. I'm truck shopping. Lowboy puller. I've found that trucks from the mid 80's to late 90's bring the same or more $ than mid 2000's. No one wants the newer trucks with all the electronic/ emissions add ons. The older trucks are more reliable, easier to work on and get better mileage. It's just so sad that we built better stuff 20 years ago, than we put out today (I realize I sound like a grumpy old man, sorry). Actually I think the manufactures are putting together the best product they can, with what the govt. forces them to do. No doubt the engines of today are built to tighter tolerance than the 70's. You read articles of 12.7 detroits and n-14's with +800,000 miles and not being touched. Enter my new worry- even though I run no equipment that has tier 4: DEF- I'm reading articles where they're interviewing engineer's. 5,000 gal of def can be contaminated by a teaspoon of foreign elements. And we're running this @#$ straight to the injection system, with no filtration. The manufactures can say- don't contaminate the fluid, but how does that help some poor @#$% out on a jobsite filling a loader with dump trucks rolling by at 30mph? I pity the poor boys in calif. that have no choice.
Yeah Crane Op , that's pretty steep for a rotation indicator ! We were hashing this out on another thread & old-iron-habit came up with a good idea to mount a camera or multiple cameras . HeavyEquipmentForums https://www.amazon.com/Digital-Wireless-Monitor-Waterproof-Excavator/dp/B00MEA2AWU
We send some stuff to machine shops and buy some aftermarket parts. With our cranes I can't wait a week on a part. I quess grove kinda spoiled me. Most of the time I can order a part and have it the next day. If it's broke down and I'm waiting on parts it's useless to me. The other part is finding the parts. Time is money and I don't have time to spend a bunch of time looking for parts. I'll spend extra to get the right part from the factory rather then spending a bunch of time trying to find something that will probably work. I guess a lot depends on the way you run your business. We schedule our cranes pretty tight. We have 3 cranes right now and really need at least one more. Since we're already spread thin on cranes we cannot afford to have one down for more then a day or two. That makes parts availability a pretty high priority.
For $2800 i'd be sorely tempted to build one out of a hall effect sensor and some computery bits. I might even be able to code that myself.
Got to thinking about that myself hvy 1ton . Mowing grass this morning thinking about a $ 2,800.00 rotation indicator . Thought about a magnetic sensor set up like on the Kenworth speedometer. Speedometer in the crane cab would indicate motion and line speed . http://www.1aauto.com/speed-and-tachometer-magnetic-sensor-dorman-505-5406/i/dmtss00003
This is SO true! Trucks are like people past 50, it is not the age but the condition that matters. The new trucks with DEF and PM filtration are very expensive to maintain and old trucks are just better to own. I am also looking for a lowboy puller, 2006 and down.
TD25, hvy1ton- if you guys can build one, there's a market. Think we'll have to give the forum a cut? You used to buy the greer aftermarket for $5-600, they got bought out by tulsa winch group, now they're $1,700. PAT makes one but they're the same $. I'll get some pictures of the one's I built for my 70 ton with a push pull cable. The thumper in the joystick ones are the big $. I tried get one from the board manufacturer, but the oem will only sell to grove. I got one working on my rt, so I didn't fix the other one, I rarely run 2 winches. I looked at the camera/screen combination. The problem with that is when you're flying, you're watching so many other things, you don't have a eyeball for the screen. The rotation indicators give you a feedback without moving your eyes. You can be swinging, booming down and holding a load, and have feedback on slowing and speeding up the winch, without taking your eyes off the load. I've seen it in the new 500 tonners, but everything happens so slow in those, it wouldn't be a problem to glance over at it. Knepptune- could have had your 70 ton today, they also had a 25 and 50 rt. I was watching b/c they are 4-5 hrs from me. That 70 ton would be a heavy pig. I think that's one that came with a air cooled deutz, originally, the cummins is a repower (see the radiator mounted up on the fender with the cobbled up belt drive). It could be factory, I've seen both. It did have all new hoses. http://www.auctiontime.com/OnlineAuctions/Details.aspx?ohid=12070777&lp=MAT $61,000 http://www.auctiontime.com/OnlineAuctions/Details.aspx?ohid=12078331&lp=MAT $25,000 http://www.auctiontime.com/OnlineAuctions/Details.aspx?ohid=12071029&lp=MAT $50,000 Pretty clean older cranes. I really was suprised the 25, and 50 ton's brought what they did. Maybe my banker will come out ok if I go under.
I was watching that auction as well. I was really surprised on the price of the 25 and 50 ton cranes too. I kinda thought if that 25 went cheap enough it may not be a bad back up crane. The problem with that 70 ton is it looks like it's as much trouble to mobilize as our 110t.
A newer 870 grove or 560 terex would be a much better crane than that one. That age of grove in the 65-85 ton range are a pain, because they are so heavy. I really can't even use them here, because I have such a hard time making 20,000/axle, because most are only 4 axle carriers. The only spec sheet I could find for it said GVWR 132,000lbs. He was probably barely making scale weight with the counterweight off, with the tag. The mid 90's 870's (110' boom) are like only 84,000 with no counterweight . Only 114' main and 32' of jib make it kind of short boomed (for a 130,000lb crane) I was thinking about bidding on the 70 ton when it had a hour left and was only at $25,000. I don't need it, but I thought if it went under $30,000 I'd kick myself for not buying it. I was actually glad it brought what it did, I didn't have to feel bad for passing up a deal. I'm so stupid, I get excited about buying a crane I don't need at $30,000 (even had my wife get me registered to bid, she was not happy "what do we need another crane for?"). But a truck and lowboy, that I really do need to move my rt around, that I should be spending $30,000 on, I've been dragging my feet on getting for 9 months now. I really have all the crane's I need for my work load. I know what your saying about being broke down, that's way worse when you have all your cranes busy. I typically have 2-3 of my 5 cranes out on any one day. With the age of my cranes, I feel much more comfortable with 2- 25 ton's , and essentially 2-40 tons (my 35 truck crane and the rt) and my 70 ton. If someone has a issue in the morning, there's something else at the shop to take. And I guess you could say I've been able to have a extra crane, because I own older machinery, that doesn't cost $3-400,000 (which is what a new 50 ton boom truck costs, and the new stuff goes down too). If I need a part, and I'm down until I get it, I'm impossible to be around. I was calling about parts the other day, it was a $70 part, ups ground was like $30. Over night was like $70. The parts guy was amazed when I said overnight. I told him if I miss the job 2 days from now, that's a $600 job, if its a multiple day job it could be $2-3,000 . That's money I'll never get back. For $40 extra shipping, I might be able to get there. That's a no brainer in my book ointhead, I'm spending the $100 either way, the extra $40 shipping means nothing if I get to that job.
Those old groves are heavy for sure. And wide. And not to mention boom heavy. Most of those old groves won't get out past 120'. You don't see any groves with bent booms tho. We still can't afford new equipment but sure would like to one day. Lol We've always had older equipment and anymore I hate bargains. But I was still watching that auction to make sure they didn't give that 25t away. Explain that. We really do need another crane tho.
Oh boy have I got the rig for you. All terrain, all wheel drive, all wheel steer, driveable from the upper. Maintained to the utmost standards. 3208 cat (know you love them), auto transmission. Only 87 hours (like new really). Might be a little cool in the winter from the operator station. But its like having a weather forecast right with you in the cab Muddy job site, no problem. Up a cliff, no problem. No road and need air dropped- probably doable. It's the ultimate rental machine! My guess is it was armored,and for demil before sale, they pulled the cab exteriors. Only 87 hours! Uncle Sam's been keeping it just for you :usa http://www.ironplanet.com/for-sale/...sort|d+asc,**|1&rr=0.03571&hitprm=&pnLink=yes
Who was talking about spending who's money earlier? Just go ahead and buy that, one of you. And I will try it out for you for a month. That machine is right up the road from me.
Oh- don't you tempt me. The 1st month is the most expensive, that's when you find out what was all wrong with the rig, that made the previous owner sell it. I could buy it, put a lojack gps on it. You could fix it, sell it to knepptune, he'd park it in the trees somewhere, with the camo he wouldn't find it back. I could find it back with the gps, but by the time it made it back to me- it would probably have a detroit: everything else I own ends up with one
Now that's funny right there!:drinkup
Heck we didn't even think about CM. That's the perfect starter crane. Him and grainbinman can take turns. And crane op if that crane comes to my shop with a 3208 in it there's no chance I'm putting a Detroit in it. I'm way to lazy for that kind of an upgrade.
Found this if it helps any. Apparently they were made by both P&H and Grove. I'm guessing this ones a P&H. Sorta looks like from the pics the cabs were uparmored, probably got striped to be "de-miled." http://www.marcorsyscom.marines.mil/portals/105/PDMENG/Docs/MHE/B0443.pdf
Yeah, hvy 1ton- I'm pulling knepptune's chain . You're correct, they are a p&h unit. The sad thing is, it isn't a useful crane at all, and won't bring anything when it sells. 87 hours or no 87 hours, its still a 69,000 lbs crane, with only 80' of boom, and no way to put a jib on it without getting new pins for the head sheeves, and then finding a jib. P&H is gone, swallowed by terex- and you won't get anything from them. You won't find a factory jib, because the whole rig was custom built to military specs, but the boom is the same boom from the old p&h 25-28ton truck crane and rt, they never built a civilian version of the all terrain. You could get the head pins and jib from one of the old truck cranes or rt, but then why wouldn't you just use that crane? No factory jib, no factory jib chart, no way you're running it on any commercial jobsite, with a homemade/added on jib. Its probably slower than my tms300 (hard to believe but probably true, 69,000 with a 3208 and a automatic is no idea of fun). The all terrains like that will go about anywhere, but they're actually horrible to set up in a crooked spot. The front jacks and rear jacks are on opposite sides of the carrier, on most truck cranes the front jacks are behind the steers, putting them much closer together. The closer the jacks are, the easier they are to set up. Military engineer units travel together- need a flat spot, have the dozer make one- or artillery. We don't have that option. I know this because I've looked at these cranes, because they go cheap. If you just wanted a yard crane for your own work, non commercial, and could live with 80' only of boom, it would work. The military is getting rid of these, and the 75 ton rt's they use also (those are grove's). The grove rt military surplus are cursed also- low hours, but with only a two section short boom. The best thing to compare it to is the military wreckers. I've kind of looked into the wrecking business (I've decided I love the equipment, just don't want 2 am phone calls ). I was looking at equipment, and couldn't figure out these guys giving $400,000 for 40 ton rotater wreckers, when the military is giving away rotater wreckers for like $20,000. There's guys setting up the mil surplus wreckers for specialty work, or just farmers owning their own, but no one uses them for serious everyday commercial work. Its the same with these military surplus cranes, I see them up on ebay repainted yellow, and pity someone buying one thinking they're getting into the rental crane game cheap, buying one. Yes it would work for some people in special situations- no its not what either knepptune or I would be able to use daily.
Ye I'd be surprised if that crane brings 20k like the opening bid says. I just looked at the specs. I can't imagine a 3208 with an automatic pulling 70k. Top speed is probably 40 mph or so. (At a slight downgrade). Can't imagine coaxing that thing up any hill. May work in real remote area where someone needs a cross between an rt and a truck crane.
So what your saying is, it'd be a good crane for me. I really don't know what the military uses those wreckers for.
Open mouth, insert foot.:jawdrop