Maybe this post will grow some legs and help some others with my dilemma. I recently overhauled a John Deere 8400 tractor (~225 hp). Whole works. The rings were already on the pistons and in the sleeves and ready to drop in (I know cause I pulled one out and broke a ring trying to reassemble). I pulled the remaining pistons out just enough to get the wrist pin out and back in instead of risking another $190 ring set. I don't have or know of a dynamometer big enough to load a machine of that output, so I ran it just enough to check for leaks and readiness, then had the owner hitch up a heavy disc and pour the coal to it. The air filter was clean. It now has 12 hours on the overhaul and is leaking some oil out of the exhaust manifold to head gaskets. The rings are low tension in Rotella 15W 40. On a machine like this, or a big four wheel drive without a PTO, or machines which can't be continuously loaded (the list is endless), what are good ways to break in an engine, specifically the rings? The kits come with instructions on increasing load percentages and duration, but that is impossible to do without a controlled load bank. I've got a county tractor I overhauled that is doing the same thing. I plan to try to run in with a subsoiler and see if it clears up.
On new engine break in I've always felt the most important thing is not to let the engine idle for long periods . I generally fire it up and after I see oil pressure take it to 1,000 rpm for a bit then run it up & down between 1,500 to 1,000 for maybe the first hour . My thinking is this gets the oil splashing keeping cylinder walls lubed good . After that ........... Let her rip Almost sounds like you have another issue if it's slobbering oil ? I might yank the ex manifold and see if the oil is just in one port or all of them .
From what I could see, all cylinders are doing it. As you have done, I checked for leaks, made a couple of road runs (most load I could put on it), very little idling, then had the owner put it in the field loaded.
John Deere recommends break in oil for there engines. I used to take all the pistons out of the liners and check and make sure that the ring gaps were not lined up. Found the odd one that was. https://m.jdparts.deere.com/partsmkt/document/english/pmac/5452_fb_BreakInOil.htm
I agree with Drifter, use Deere break in oil and put 200hrs on that oil (Deere changed this from 100hrs a couple years ago) also is the kit genuine Deere? Most aftermarket stuff I've used is not up to par. But that was a long time ago and I'm bias anyhow. I've had a lot of break in issues with Deere marine engines not breaking in due not being able to load, Deere DTAC recommend to Use break in oil again after the first 200hr service for another 200hrs
Hmm, time for a spoonful of BonAmi? CAT actually had a part number for the stuff!
I told the owner tonight about the JD break in oil. Told him to dump the Rotella, leave the filter, and fill it with the stuff. The kit was not JD. The replacement ring set was, and fit perfectly so if there is a quality issue, it would have to be in the matalurgy of the rings or sleeves. Speaking of the BonAmi, I had a Lincoln SA 200 welder with a Continental gas burner that wouldn't seat. I suspect there may have been too much BS'ing and idling on the pipeline work between rods. I couldn't load it so after a bunch of research, tried the BonAmi or borax treatment. I sifted in a couple of tablespoons of the stuff (too much and it would start to miss). He had been plaguing me with calls about it and after the treatment, I haven't heard from him again so I assume that fixed it. I had no clue that Cat actually used it. If so, that along with Land Rover doing it in dealerships to fix this problem, it must be a valid fix. Any idea what is in the break in oil for it to work? If it will, I may try it on the IH county rig that is doing the same thing but worse.
7F5225 Break-in Powder, LOL My Dad told me one of the auto makers had huge issues with chrome rings when they were first introduced not seating, and out of desperation somebody used Bon Ami and it worked, so it became corporate policy to at least try it first before overhauling what was basically a new engine, and having the same problem after the overhaul. Better metals and better honing techniques I think have mostly solved the issue. Am I wrong or is the Deere breakin oil basically non-detergent?
Lantraxco, Deere engineers tell me it's basically SAE 30 with a bunch of additives to promote break in. Can you guys school me on Bon Ami? I have never heard of using it. Also here's a story about a customer who used break in oil to the max. He purchased a 225hp 6068T Deere marine engine and installed it himself, I did the sea trials and told him to change the break in oil at 100hrs ( it wasn't 200hr at that time) he said ok, about a year later he call me and says his engine is skipping. I went down and looked at it and was astounded that his oil filter wast still painted yellow from the factory! I said to him you haven't changed your oil! (over 900hrs!) then he had no explanation and says is it covered under warranty?
I overhauled a engine for a jeep i had it was a nice jeep so i went all out. It used oil bad so i took it apart and the 2 top rings gaps were all lined up i put in new rings and checked ring gap. It still used oil. I pulled it out and put in a used engine. I then tore it apart and had 2 diffrent engine shops look at it they didnt see any thing wrong. I put it together agin it would use a quart after the oil was changed in 500 miles then it would start useing 1 every 100 miles. This engine had good power and i put it in a pickup that was used off road mainly.I wish i could go back and try BonAmi on it.
From what I've heard, the procedure is basically dusting the running engine with a small amount of Bon ami dumped into the intake. The mild abrasive does it's thing on the rings and walls and the customer is happy? I think I heard that eggshells are the "active ingredient".
Lots of piston rings coming out of China in overhaul kits do not have a break-in bevel where ring meets cylinder, making ring seating a finicky proposition. They say do not use detergent oil during break in. The only non-detergent oil I can find these days is Napa 30. Putting a diesel engine under load right away helps them to seat. Under load means at least 60% of max load.
I had a new pickup once that we gave up trying to get the rings to seat, the dealer tore it apart a couple times, put new rings and pistons in it and gave up, they tore it apart the last time and scuffed up the cylinder walls and that did the trick to finally get it to seat and quit sucking oil. I'd guess the mystery dust in a can does basically the same thing, scuffs up stuff enough to the rings seat. For a diesel turbo engine to suck that much oil, there has to be something else wrong, I'd want to take it apart and see to make sure the rings are not lined up. With the compression ratio, how can it be puking that much oil out? You'd think it would blow it back down into the crankcase and you'd get so much blow by it would blow the dipstick out if the rings hadn't seated properly?? or am I missing something completely?
Once I spent 6-8 months, 6 days a week, running in new engines. My method was to fire them up and look for oil pressure, leaks, and strange noise. If they passed the test, put 10% load for 10-15 minutes, then while running, up the load to 75% for 45 min. Then drop the load, shut down and adjust the valves while hot. Then fire it up, and run full speed, full load for an hour. If they didn't break during the dyno run, they were ready to go out the door.
That sounds like the process the local shops would do on an engine we rebuilt then took to them to be run-in. I managed to **** off the dyno guy a the Caat dealer one time. Rebuilt a 3306 out of a 966C and this time one of us did not accompany the engine for the run-in. This machine had a mechanical oil pressure gauge so I had put a plastic plug in the oil port on the side of the engine. Problem was in the Dyno room at the dealer the gauge panel was on the other side of the engine from where this plug was. Guy pulled a pipe plug out of the engine to connect his gauge. Everything ready? Crank it up. Looking good now check other side of the engine. Guess what was positioned just right in line with the oil port with the plastic plug, yep the guys roll box! Guess he was not to happy about the free rust proof treatment!
That sounds like the process the local shops would do on an engine we rebuilt then took to them to be run-in. I managed to **** off the dyno guy a the Cat dealer one time. Rebuilt a 3306 out of a 966C and this time one of us did not accompany the engine for the run-in. This machine had a mechanical oil pressure gauge so I had put a plastic plug in the oil port on the side of the engine. Problem was in the Dyno room at the dealer the gauge panel was on the other side of the engine from where this plug was. Guy pulled a pipe plug out of the engine to connect his gauge. Everything ready? Crank it up. Looking good now check other side of the engine. Guess what was positioned just right in line with the oil port with the plastic plug, yep the guys roll box! Guess he was not to happy about the free rust proof treatment!
seen allot of kits where the rings were lined up allways check them on the oil problem could it be the turbo,,,that would show up in all the exhaust ports,, look in the hose coming from turbo and see if its oily
Never had a dyno to do run in. After rebuild I put them in the machine, did the same process as stated above for fluids and such. If the machine had a converter I'd idle it up to start with to about a thousand RPM or around half throttle. When I saw 150 F on the temp gauge I'd drop it in gear and let thing play out for a bit while the torque temp ran up about equal to the engine temp. Once there I'd run stalls for about fifteen to twenty minutes. If everything was good at that point it was out to the job. On machines without a torque I'd do the warmup and then a run on a little used road or field. Put in an intermediate gear and throttle it up full till it topped out on the governor. Then let it go back to idle slowing the machine down with the engine. Half a dozen times with no problems and it was back to work. I've never done rebuild kits so haven't seen the lined up rings but have heard from others that it is something that needs to be checked before loading everything into the block.
My bad for not checking all of them. After one ring broke trying to reinstall after removing, (low tension, cast iron, delicate as fine china, and.. $160 per hole from JD), I was gunshy and left them in their sleeves. I replaced the turbo in the job so it shouldn't be an issue, especially with oil coming out the manifold to head gaskets before the turbo. The owner stopped me today and gave me a load of JD break in oil so I'll update the post on what happens. This was the first kit I've ever dealt with that I didn't have to completely assemble myself.' As for the IH 1466 with the same problem, I'm going to try the break in oil and dust it with Bon ami before doing wheelies pulling a three shank subsoiler.
The owner of the JD 8410 had me drain and refill it with the JD break in oil and he reported recently that it had quit using and leaking any oil within a short amount of run time after changing. I am sold on it and now have three machines headed out the door with the stuff in them.
the old caterpillar sleeves where so hard a hone wouldn't touch them. Cat recommended making up a rig with a electrolyte (battery acid) soaked felt covered wood plunger and using a battery and electrically etching the cyl walls. We installed a new set of chrome rings in a old 1950,s D7. It used more oil and smoked worse than before. The owner gathered up the dust from a pre cleaner. He had me gather up a blade full of dirt and push it around and then he fed the dust into a crack made by loosening the air cleaner. fed it several tablespoon fulls. Seated the rings and it stopped drinking oil.