I recently picked up a 118c I believe. It's been sitting several years. I can't move the flywheel with a bar about 1 and a half inches but it just. Springs right back. What are the odds that it is hydro locked due to fuel leaking through the injectors. If this is not the problem, what is a possible motor I can repower this with? It has the NHC-4 Cummins in it now . The guy I bought it from said it used oil pretty badly when he parked it so I'm leaning toward a repower. Pretty new to SAE bolt patterns and would like to know what could possibly be shoehorned in there. Not afraid to have a little fabrication done. Thanks a bunch!!
Ok I lied its a 118B
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I'd try pulling injectors just for fun and see if it will turn over then. If it's hydro locked with fuel and not water might actually run again. Before going too far on the repower I think I'd look into doing an overhaul on the original engine. Not sure on parts availability for older Cummins. But then if you were to find a used 4-71 Detroit for a good price I bet that would fit in pretty easy. I'd bet that a Detroit was one of the engines used from the factory back in the day.
Nope, 118b used 743 Cummins, and IHC
Yah I see now that it's a 118a. Yah it was hydro locked. But on to the next problem the clutch is stuck , any suggestions other than pulling the engine?
Dang this machine has some kind of "Identity Problem" first it's a 118, then a 118C, then a 118B and now it's a 118A! So does it run now? It maybe possible to break the clutch free by putting it in high gear and bumping the starter while holding in on the clutch. I see you location as Nebraska, is this outside in the cold? If it is could just be frozen, wait for warm day or if engine runs let it run to see if heat works its way to the flywheel and frees it up. Might be worth pulling the engine to determine how worn the clutch is and clean up flywheel and pressure plate surfaces.
Tomorrow is the day to see if the old girl fires. The previous owner said he had a new clutch put in shortly before he parked it. I know the mechanic but haven't asked him to verify it. I apologize for the grader identity crisis. Sometimes the photos you find to compare on Google are not labeled right apparently. Thanks everyone so far. I'll post my progress tomorrow. It's supposed to be in the 60s so I hope she cracks off. Unfortunately I have found my starter is pretty weak
I also bought a running Austin Western I will start a new thread on.
Personally the couple of clutches that I've freed up didn't work and had to be replaced anyway. Your results may vary. The facings fell apart and dragged enough that they wouldn't release properly. If you have access, you can loosen the bolts holding the pressure plate down and the clutch will pop loose one way or another. Once the plate is 1/4" off the flywheel, loosen every other one a little more so you don't get them all hanging on by a thread and pop off and smash your hand. Replace every other one with longer bolts if needed to let it hang loose. That new clutch can probably be salvaged if you sand the rust off the flywheel and pressure plate. You wouldn't want to destroy an expensive? disk and then have to take it apart anyway.
Ok got her running. Clutch still stuck. What oil do I use in the engine 15-40w?
I'd say any good diesel rated 15W-40 oil would be better than what was around back when that engine was new! If it was mine I would probably by whatever store brand oil you can find at least for first running to flush out who know's how old the stuff in there is and buy a spare set of filters to put in after a few hours running. Like Delmer suggests if there is room to get at the pressure plate bolts try backing them out and maybe even replace them with 1/4 inch longer bolts to let you back it off real good. Just be careful that they don't hit anything while turning over by hand. One other thing before backing out the bolts if you have a good open area to work I might be tempted to see if it would start in gear then run it around a little with clutch held in might be just enough to free it up. Just don't try that if wife's car is parked in front of the machine!
I had it started in gear and ran it into a large hay bale stack. No luck. Did the first oil change tonight and filled her with antifreeze. Has anyone ever tried filling the bell housing with diesel fuel . Doesn't seem like a great idea but a local guy said he did it several years ago on his champion, and has experienced no problems since. I just don't know if I want to try it
I have dealt with a few clutches that were stuck from sitting up. Either tie the clutch pedal all the way down, or make sure you keep your foot all the way down on it all the time. Use the highest gear you can, for the greatest mechanical advantage against the clutch. After you drive around enough to get it warm, you are going to have to find something hard to hit, or to jerk against. It may take many, many hits. A farmer customer of mine has a big, old, Ford tractor he uses only twice a year, for heavy tillage. After somebody installed a new clutch without turning the flywheel, if he doesn't tie the clutch pedal down when he parks it, it's stuck when he goes back. He usually thinks he isn't going to let it sit long this time, so I have unstuck it 5 or 6 times for him. I usually start with easy stuff, like holding the pedal down and running over telephone poles laying in the grass, while holding the pedal down. That kind of thing usually does it, after a few hits, but I once had to take a 1 1/4" cable about 20' long and hook it to the back tow hook on a loaded semi, and hit it as hard as I was willing to ride about 20 times before it finally broke loose. It's always fine once it breaks loose. It must be our humidity or something, cause this is common when equipment sits a year or two around here, I've broken everything from pickups, to medium trucks, to heavy iron loose that way, and they've always been fine. I think diesel fuel on the clutch would be a last resort, when I knew I was gonna throw that clutch away if it didn't work. BTW, I have a 118B Galion in my yard waiting on a shifter rebuild, and an Austin-Western Super 366 with a tooth knocked off the rear ring gear. I have service and parts books for all Galion graders through about 1974, and a bunch of different A-Ws, if you need me to look something up.
Going to cut a block of wood to hold the clutch to the floor. Got. A tree picked out. Or a large tow rope and the payloader
The ones I've attempted were small old farm tractors, probably with original clutches or 50+ year old "new" ones. the worst culprit in those cases is mouse **** causing bad rust, probably under the clutch facing on the steel disc as well as the pressure plate and flywheel. I've always thought water was the best "penetrating oil" for rust and ****, I sure wouldn't want the wax in diesel on a clutches material. But it might not be that bad of an idea on something old that's going to sit a lot more than it's going to be lugged? There's usually a lower gear if it starts to slip.
Ok. Grader 0 tree 1. New question. I have a bad addiction to cast iron skillets 200+. My question is whether I can try what I use to take rust off old pans. 50/50 vinegar and water. Generally cleans off heavy surface rust in 24 hours. This shouldn't hurt the clutch disk right?
Sounds like a plan to me. It won't hurt the facing material, but it will react with the rust differently than your skillets that you submerge in acid.
Don't see any harm in a little vinegar water mix, might smell good too if you use a cider vinegar! Ok. Grader 0 tree 1. New question. Does this mean the tree did the work or just stalled the grader?
The tree just stalled I out. And buried the snow plow mount far enough in the tree I couldn't back out. Well got some good and some bad news! Good news is I found a 8x20"ish inspection plate under 1/2" of grease on top of the clutch housing. The bad news is I see where all the foam from my seats went
DOH! I was afraid of that. If the flywheel is flat (the pressure plate and disk aren't recessed) then you can use wood shims or putty knife etc. to get in there after loosening the bolts.
Thanks for the good ideas everyone. So far I'm pretty happy with the progress. Actually I just assumed the whole motor was shot at first. She's definitely a oil burner but fires up in about a second. Lets face it, it's only going to get used about 5 times a year so what's a little oil. I'll post more on my clutch progress tomorrow. Thanks again
Alright guys tonight was a win. Delmer I took your advice and did the whole bolt trick. But the clutch is recessed in the flywheel. And years of mouse treatment wouldn't even let it loose from the flywheel. So I went and got a can of Deep Creep which said that it worked better if heat was applied so I got my handy propane hand torch out and heated the clutch up. I then proceeded to spray the entire can of deep creep in there. And just for good measure I beat the heck out of it with a hammer. Tried bumping the starter in gear. Still no luck. So I decided what the heck "lets go run it into something with the bolts loose. So I did my normal idle it way down and jerk it into gear and backed up from the shop. Kicked her into neutral and jerked it into first. "What no movement.?" She finally broke loose but the clutch never did loosen itself from the flywheel. So I let it run for a while with my block of wood on the clutch pedal. I sprayed a whole can of brake cleaner into the clutch with it running. (I know probably asking for a fire but none thank goodness) So just to test if it would slip I decided, since I like putting my feet up on the dash to brace myself I would run it into the bale pile as fast as I could. Let me mention that I'm 26 years old and have a sense of adventure. So off I go and Wham!!! No clutch slip!! So after I got climbed off the steering wheel and shook off a feeling that I am currently sure is whiplash. I drove her around a bit more and was very happy with the shifting and the clutch, well as good as you can be happy with a 50+ year old gear grinder. So I want to say thanks again everyone, she will be put to work this weekend and get the rust knocked off the blade. Now on to the next step. Brakes! At least the parking brake works. Not bad for $500 though. Now if the Austin Western comes to life this easy! P.S. Do you guys want me too follow up on how this old cornfield trophy treats me?
Keep the updates coming. Since you know there were mice and their droppings in there, rinse that clutch out liberally and repeatedly, and then screen it.
I already hosed the heck out of it before I tied into it. But yes great idea I'll keep giving her a wash. The torch kinda took care of some of the stuff I missed. Sorry for the extremely long previous post. I was jacked up on coffee and a adrenaline rush that I actually got it to break loose.
No problem, at least we did not have to smell the burning mouse droppings!
Yah it definitely was not a awesome job but worth it in the end
Well first day out and about. All my thoughts of repowering it are gone. The old Cummins has plenty of power. She is a bit smokey if you let it idle for a while and then get after it. If you run it hard it's nothing but a little black smoke . Seems to like being used. Dang muffler blew the side out so I got to wear shooting ear muffs the rest of the day. But she didn't seem to use hardly any oil. I need to replace the fuel lines and put a seal on the throttle shaft on the injection pump. Got all the fluids checked and greased up. Can you believe every zerk took grease? Flushed out some really milky oil out of the power steering system and put new in(vast improvement in steering) got all the broken glass cleaned up and all the other mouse nests out of the cab. Needless to say I'm in love with this old thing, well it at least gives me something to do anyway!
Well it's been a month or so. The old girl keeps ticking. I've got 4 tires to replace the sad rear ones. I have discovered that the worm drive is stripped out on the gear box that swings the whole circle to the side. But as luck would have it I found a parts galion sitting in the weeds about 10 miles away. I got ahold of the owner but have yet to go pull the gear I need to fix mine since it still works fine for normal road maintenance. Still haven't got my Austin western running. Must have lost all my drive lol