Hello- I have a 1991 Champion 720A with a wing. I am setup to plow logging roads up here in Maine. I have ladder style chains with cross links every other link with 8mm studs like most of the trucks run here. I have a lot of grip. Recently I have lost a wheel seal out by the tire hub. The dealer has told me that running chains and winging snow is likely the cause of this and they went on to say they have seen tandems broke with similar setups as mine. They say if the tires have too much grip it can cause issues. I was wondering if anyone else has had problems due to running chains and winging and pushing snow? Thanks
Dumbest thing I have ever heard. Now the vibration from the chains, etc. I can see causing some issues, but too much grip on ice and snow? Pull the other one.
What dealer told you that?
If you lost a wheelseal, I'd say it's probably more likely you have a wheelbearings on the way out on that wheel. Your year uses interference fit bearings and very rarely give much issue. Starting in 94 they went to the slip fit bearings and that was a real adventure. Those bearings in those things are right close together and it takes very little to create play. If you pick up the machine so the tires are off the ground, you'll be able to grab the top of the tire and pull it in and out to feel the play. As far as traction goes, the more the better. It's when spinning because of no traction and then you suddenly hit a spot where there's traction that I get concerned. In your more moderate temperatures, maybe chains are the best traction for you. Here we gone to Snow Cat style tires (Michelin, Goodyear all offer them) and they're everybit as good as chains provided you're talking below 30*F.
It was a Volvo dealer in Maine. I have Bridgestone V-wedge tires with the aggressive chains i have very good grip. We are in the mtns of maine here and temps are over the place during winter so chains are needed on these icy roads. I believe the dealer was referring to when winging back snow, as most know, you will get pushed sideways at times. If your traction is really good, it will want to break the tandems and cause wheel seals to leak. Just repeating what they told me. Fatgraderman, I did spin out on a hill and chewed down til it grabbed and went. Of course it was the next day i found the wheel seal leak.
I also want to ask, what are you thoughts on now that i have the wheel seal leaking, should I fix it now, or continue to run til spring break up and fix then?
Pick it up off the ground and see what your play is in those wheelbearings. Everytime we've had the seal leak, it was the bearings going or wrapped something up in it (twine from round hay bales for instance). I'm willing to bet the preload's gone in that bearing and that's why it's leaking. As far as sideloads, we've bounced off a pile of frozen drifts at -40*F over the years winging at 17-20 mph. Everything a grader does has sideloads. Rolling around heavy windrows in the summertime puts non-stop sideloads on things. And we did it constantly with 730's and 740's. They are built for that. On that one you should only need the bearings and seal. That one isn't much fun because the bearings have to be heated to go over the axle so expect the mechanic to be a few hours per hub. I've never done one with drum brakes so maybe that's a little extra fun. Disc brake ones are nothing.
Ok thank you for the insight. If I lift it and don't find much play, you think i'm good for a while?
If there isn't much play, I'd be fine with leaving it for a little while. Which brakes has that one got? The Dayton style hubs on drum brakes or the disc brakes inside the tandem with "Bud" style wheels? Wouldn't want to take a chance on soaking the drum pads but discs I wouldn't worry about. Just watch what you have for play. I know of a couple around here (series 5's) that wore the inside of the tires because the bearings were out but the improved dual cone seal still held oil so nobody worried about it. One machine ran until things dislodged. That was with the newer slip fit bearing setup. With your older setup, I doubt there's very much play. Keep oil topped up of course but at 5 pails per side it would take quite a leak before that's an issue I'd imagine.
What they told you is stupid. So grading dirt is less side force on the wheels than plowing snow is? Even with tire chains, tires on snow have less adhesion than tires on dirt; too much grip in snow compared to the grip in dirt? The machine is made for pushing stuff to the side.
I'm not sure what brakes I have. I've had the machine less than a year. It was a municiple machine in southern Maine. It has just over 10,000 hrs. I'm getting lined up to pull the hub and bring it in to the dealer. They said it would be a bearing and some seals. Better to do this than take any chances at this point.
I agree with you on this. All the graders around here are chained up heavy and when the snow gets deep they are all out pushing it back.
I have oil disc brakes that seem to be all part of the hub.
That might be the first year for disc brakes then. They are having you pull the hub? It's not a huge deal. Once the tire is off and the oil is drained, undue the brake line in the top, and plug the line. You'll have to bleed just a touch when it goes back together. Pull the inspection plate above that tandem and rotate until you find the master link in the chain. That master link has a couple cotter pins holding it together. An eyelet screws into the top of those tandems. It's been 10 years or so, but I think there's a bolt in the top of the hub that the eyelet screws into. Once you've got it hung from something then pull the bolts holding the hub to the tandem.
Will be pulling the hub this wkd. Thanks for the detailed instructions.
My mechanic and I pulled the hub right apart and found a bad outer bearing by the seal. We have the parts and hopefully will get it back together soon. The book is calling for 32 weight Hydro oil in the tandem. Any recommendations? Or just run of the mill hydro oil?
My understanding through this forum is that the lubrication requirements in the tandem chain box are fairly minimal. I wanted to know if I could reuse the transmission hyd. oil that I had recently changed out instead of pouring the high dollar new stuff in.
All the ones with disc brakes, we ran trans, hydraulic, gear in the tandems. I can't remember what the earlier drum brake ones called for. Half a 45 gallon drum per side. I'm a bit surprised the manual for that one is calling for 32 weight hydraulic oil. I'd check around and see what everybody else says. I don't think my old employer has any of the books around anymore.
ISO 32 or AW32? Actually a ten weight, the AW is Anti Wear.
The book calls for ISO 32.
So that one is drum brakes then? Edit: If your aren't able to clarify the oil requirements of that thing, give these guys a call - http://www.jadeequipment.com/ . If it's drum brakes, I don't remember what the oil requirements are. I only ran one with them and its too long ago (19 years). With disc brakes, it was always TransHydraulicGear oil. Even the new ones, it "Wetbrake 101" which is Volvo's version of it. I'd hate to see you have issues with brakes because there was confusion. There's a few outfits around that would be considered authorities on Champion graders and Jade might know as much about them things as any dealer.
It has disc brakes and is a wet brake system. I put the ISO 32 in and run it today. I'll give those guys a call and if I have to change it out its no big deal. Thanks for the input.