Hello all. I am pulling my engine from my 1983 Ford 555 Backhoe. The manual refers to a tool "Lifting fixture #6011". I cannot seem to locate one of these online. Perhaps someone has a suggestion as to an alternate way to safely lift the engine without damaging it?
Was a bolt on lifting eye that straddled the Valve Cover attaching to the head, old as this machine is be really lucky to find one, Try to ID the head mounting points and build a appropriate lifting eye.
I doubt if you will find one online. Not much of a market for them. It is a simple steel plate with three hook holes that you can attach to the motor.
As others have said it will probably be something you use your best judgment and fabricate. Onece engine is out you may find you have to modify to get it balanced better for installation. And as they say 'When in doubt, build it stout!"
One of these would be handy to have. The motor could be tilted up and down to clear obstacles, especially in a car or truck.
Thank you all for your responses. I managed to come up with a method to do this using a chain, a braided wire cable and a come-along. I have the replacement engine now bolted to the front-end of the tractor and ready (so I thought) to reassemble everything. I have, however, run into a snag. If anyone has encountered something similar, or have insight into what might be happening here, I'd be grateful for your thoughts. Read on! Earlier this summer, I replaced the torque converter on this tractor. I was able to split the machine, replace the parts, and reassemble the tractor. The engine started up and ran perfectly for a whopping day and a half and then a connecting rod snapped and it blew right through the side of the engine block; typical of my luck! I decided at that point to replace the entire engine with a rebuilt from Broken Tractor (brokentractor.com). Everything went relatively smoothly and yesterday I rolled the front of the tractor, with the replacement engine attached, back into position and bolted it to the back end. All good, right? Well, when I tried to turn the flywheel in order to bolt the flywheel to the torque converter flex-plate, the flywheel would not turn. I reached through the starter hole and tried to spin the torque converter, but it wouldn't budge either. I loosened all of the bolts and rolled the front end forward about an inch and then checked again. I was indeed able to turn both the flywheel and the torque converter quite easily. Again though, when I bolted the sections back together they wouldn't turn. I assumed at this point that I must not have properly seated the torque converter onto the transmission pump and perhaps the tangs on the torque converter were not inserted deeply into the transmission pump and things were jamming up. I then removed all of the bolts again and separated the front end enough for me to have a look. When I tried to remove the torque converter, it wouldn't come off. It spun easily enough on the pump, but I couldn't pull it off. It appears when I bolted the sections together, the flywheel must have pushed hard against the flex plate/converter and jammed it tight onto the transmission pump. I was able to remove the torque converter by removing the flex plate and inserting two longer bolts with heavy-duty washers into the torque converter, positioned 180 degrees apart. I then connected a braided cable across the two bolts and using the come-along, I was able to pull it off. I'm amazed how tightly it was jammed on. I thought sure I had damaged the tangs on the torque converter, and/or the transmission pump, but everything seems fine. I then began the process again, reconnecting the flex plate and placing the torque converter onto the shaft of the transmission pump. I made certain that the tangs on the torque converter were properly seated and then moved the front end back into position and (this time) only tightened two of the mounting bolts closest to the center of the engine. Once again, as soon as I tighten down on the bolts, the flywheel and the torque converter will not turn. I'm thinking that when the two sections of the tractor are bolted tightly together, the flywheel must be pressing so hard against the torque converter that the whole assemble will not turn. I cannot fathom why, or how, this could be happening, as I did not encounter this situation when I replaced the torque converter earlier this summer. I thought perhaps the replacement engine was somehow different and maybe the front of the crankshaft was longer and pushing the flywheel deeper into the torque converter housing, but the engines appear to be exactly the same. I'm at a loss at the moment and hoping someone here might have some idea as to what might be happening? Sorry for the length of this post! Michael
Is the flex plate flat ? If it is i guess that there is no way for it to be installed backwards. How big is the gap when it starts to bind ?
Is there a model year difference in engines as in different cranks or flex plates
Hello "Tink", I was hoping you'd weigh in! Flex plate was on correct; in fact it was never removed from the Torque converter when it was mounted on the older engine. I'm able to move the two halves of the tractor together close enough to get all of the bolts threaded in a few turns and everything spins freely. It's only when I tighten them down that it locks things up. Really odd.
I'm wondering this as well. I'm going to call Broken Tractor and ask about this. I'll let you know what they say. Thanks for responding.
I would remove the flywheel. Lay a straight edge across the crankshaft flange and carefully measure the the distance to the block flange, where the bellhousing mates. Do the same thing on the old motor and see if there is any difference in the distances.
Tinkerer, my first thought was a dry or binding bushing in the pump, but from his post it seems it is the same torque and pump as before. So that rules that out. I agree with you, something is off in the flywheel to block to flex plate distance
Converter may yet to be fully seated, HOPEFULLY did not mangle something inside it. If measurements come out similar then pull converter as something inside has gone FUBAR.
Check pilot hole ?
I'm going to have to split the tractor again and do this. I just can't find anything else that is wrong. Everything lines up and comes together fine. I'm even able to fasten the flywheel to the flexplate through the starter opening. Then, as soon as I tighten the engine bolts to the transmission everything locks up. Very odd.
This was my original thought because it would appear the converter is pressing too hard against the pump. Yesterday when I split it (again) to check this, the converter wouldn't pull off easily. I had to fashion a puller out of bolts, braided cable and a come-a-long to pop it off. I looked over everything carefully and find no signs of any damage. I then made absolutely certain that the tangs on the converter were inserted correctly into the pump, put it all together again and it's the same issue. Either the converter is still not going all of the way on (not sure how that can be) or, as Tink is suggesting the crankshaft is somehow slightly longer on the transmission side.
Hi. Thanks for responding. Regarding the pilot hole, what are you thinking? I was considering opening this and inserting a gooseneck mini camera to see if I can identify the problem.
If / when you measure the the crankshaft protrusion measure the end play also. It should be a non-issue. In regards to the pilot hole --- it is possible that the pilot hole in the replacement motor is smaller than the pilot on the convertor. That would definitely prevent the two from going together correctly.
Ah, you mean the hole in the end of the crankshaft on the new engine, correct? I'll definitely check that. Good thought.
Should be a open center where the Converter squares into a Pilot bore.
In the end of the crankshaft, yes?
Yes
Tx. I'm a "newbie", so I'm not always clear on the terminology. If this were the case, then the converter wouldn't seat fully into the crankshaft and the flex-plate wouldn't come in contact with the flywheel, which it does. Assuming I've got this correct?
That is a Yes, HOWEVER, if torque converter is not fully seating onto input shaft and front pump will stop from bolting up.
Yup. I'm thinking one of two things. Either the converter isn't seating fully on the transmission pump, or something with the crankshaft is different (slightly longer shaft?) and it's pushing the whole assembly forward. As soon as it stops raining, I'll pull it all apart for the 3rd time!
Sorry for the issues, been here as you are before.
Lol. I'm sure you have. I'm just grateful for having gentlemen like you and Tink (and everyone on this forum) to chat it through with. Tremendously helpful. Best, Michael
Micheal; Look carefully at the drawing of your convertor. Are the spacers 1D & 1E in place and stacked correctly ? How about the rest of the assembly ? Are the engagement tangs on the convertor spaced evenly and the same size ? If not they have to be indexed correctly for full engagement.
1A in this attachment appears to be the flex plate. I do indeed have the 1D and 1E spacers in the noted position. The Torque Converter on this unit is completely sealed, with no access to internal components, so there's little room for error here. Regarding the tangs on the converter, there are two, of equal size, positioned on opposite sides. When I slide the converter onto the pump shaft, it can only go on in two positions 180 degrees rotated.
If do pull it off to look shine a lamp all the way into #4, make certain nothing stacked in there.
Is the convertor a replacement or the same one that was on the old motor ? I ask a lot of questions because something has changed between the old and functioning motor and the rebuilt one.
The converter is a new (rebuilt). I replaced it earlier this summer on the old engine and had no problem putting it back together. It ran for a day and a half and then blew a connecting rod that shot through the side of the engine block and marred the heck outa the crankshaft. I was going to rebuild it, but decided to put a whole new engine in. Everything was going fine until I try to put the 2 halves back together.
Update. Well, the converter ain't new anymore. Just split the tractor again and it's a bit mangled. Flex plate too (sigh). Now you know where all of my Social Security checks are going!
Michael, when you get your new stuff, do some VERY careful measuring block to end of converter, bell to pump. Please.
Thanks Mr. Sled D, I appreciate the thought. These are painful and costly lessons for me. I'm sure I've invested way more than this machine is worth, but my stubborn nature won't allow me to abandon it. From my somewhat limited perspective, I never saw this coming. The converter and flex plate were in the machine when the new engine arrived. After bolting the new engine to the front, I rolled it back into position and lined up all of the bolts. Everything seemed to fit like a glove. I then torqued down all of the engine bolts and didn't feel any resistance (or I'm stronger than I realize). When I went through the starter opening to bolt the flywheel to the flex-plate was the first indication there was a problem. I'm certain I did something very wrong, but I'm still not sure what it was. When I changed the converter this summer I did not encounter this at all, so it came out of left field for me. I would never have thought to measure all of the components based on the previous experience. I will be VERY careful when the new parts arrive. Meanwhile, I may need to do some panhandling outside the local supermarket!
You said that you replaced the torque converter and a day in a half later the engine blew? I think the converter might be the problem. It may have thrusted the crankshaft and the preload wiped out the engine. Just a thought anyway.
At this point, anything is possible! I'm sure when I get this all figured out the transmission will go. Not much left that I haven't replaced.
Repairing these old machines is kinda like picking your nose, when do you stop ? Micheal; do you still have the original torque convertor ? If you do, can you do some real accurate measurements on it ? How mangled is the one that just came out ? Could you post a photo of it. I'm thinking that it has more length than the old one. The flex plate contact point to the end of the convertor tangs would be a critical distance. The fact that you had to use a come along to remove the convertor from the shuttle is a real concern. Paul is most likely right about forcing the crankshaft forward and causing the con rod to break. I wish I could see what the main bearing thrust surface looks like in the broken motor.
Realize, you guys are way over my head. I don't even know what a "main bearing thrust" is! Before I bought this toy, the extent of my mechanical experience was tightening the chain on my mini-bike when I was 12. The "original" torque converter is long gone. It's been sent back to the supplier of the rebuilt I bought, in exchange. The converter i just put in this summer is pretty mangled, but I (admittedly) caused it. When I pulled the machine apart this morning (for the 4th time this week) the whole front section slipped forward on the hydraulic jack I'm using and the converter hit the bottom housing, on the transmission side, and snapped the pilot that goes into the crankshaft. It also wacked the hell outa the flex plate. It doesn't help that I'm working outside in a field of dirt. Well, mud at the moment as we're having a lot of rain here right now. I'm holding up the flywheel side of the engine with a single floor jack and rolling the whole front end, including engine, around on a piece of plywood by myself. I'm not complaining mind you, I'm just giving the lay of the land. Perhaps investing in upgrading my work environment, and some of my tools, would go a long way toward improving my track record. Although, knowledge and experience would be even better! Apologies for my sense of humor. I need to keep this in perspective and not agonize myself over it.
Hey, just be glad you don't need this machine running to make your house payment, or it's a customer's machine they need.
Michael, sorry about the mangled parts. We've all done some sketchy **** working in the field. However, ALL that matters is that you were not hurt, and you have all your fingers and toes. Iron can be replaced, people not so much...
Are you using the original flywheel or did one come on the replacement engine
You need to check your shuttle input shaft. Pull the pump off the oil divider and look at the outer splines on the input shaft. What does the stator inside the converter look like. Are the internal splines in the stator damaged. Does it look like the converter is seating all the way in on the input shaft???
Gentleman, I have two questions. 1) I assume when I install the Torque Converter, I do not need to re-fill with oil? I believe the oil gets replenished from the Transmission pump; is that correct, or should I be adding oil before reinstalling? My shop manual says nothing about adding oil on installation. 2) In regard to the run-out on the Converter, it is exceeding .020". I have rotated the whole assembly (Converter with flex-plate) on the flywheel, but it's still too high. Should I try rotating the flex-plate position on the converter too?
Michael, on my hoe this summer when I resealed my converter, I prefilled with oil. I know the pump will fill it, but I wanted some lubrication on start up.
I always put some in them. Don't fill it full tho ! Can you update us as to what you did to get engine bolted up to the convertor housing ? It did slide together easily right ?
Flex-plates are shimmed with special shim washers to get the proper setting. Do you have the service manual for your machine ? The procedure should be in it.
I replaced the flywheel just this summer, so it's the same.
The pump was replaced just this past summer and the tractor went back together just fine. The converter seems to be seated just fine. It's quite perplexing.
I do have the service manual and, interestingly enough, there is no mention anywhere of checking/adjusting the torque converter run-out at all. In fact, there's not even a spec listed. With the rebuilt converter came an instruction sheet on how to check the run-out. There are absolutely no shims on the flex-plate for adjustment and the instruction sheet simply calls for rotating the flex-plate position on the flywheel until run-out is less than .010". This is now the 3rd flex-plate I've worked with and none had shims.
Sorry I didn't respond to everyone earlier. I usually get an email when someone responds to a post. Not this time, so I assumed everyone went silent. Thanks for still being here! After changing the converter once already this summer, I didn't expect the problems I'm running into now. Things went relatively smoothly last time, considering it was my first experience doing this. This time I seem to be having nothing but problems. Getting the new engine ready and secured to the front of the tractor went well and quickly, then the trouble began and I couldn't get the engine bolted back to the transmission without locking up the converter/flywheel assembly. What I failed to mention last time (due to my embarrassment) was that when I pulled the tractor back apart, the engine slipped off the floor jack I've been rolling it around on and the back end of the engine tipped backwards and smacked the torque converter onto the transmission housing destroying the replacement torque converter and flex-plate I had just installed some weeks prior. Ouch, what an expensive lesson. Last week I received a new (rebuilt) converter and a new flex-plate. I've now spent hours, over the course of days, trying to get the run-out of the converter within spec of .010". The run-out of the transmission-side crankshaft and the flywheel is excellent, less than .0005". However, once I bolted the converter/flex-plate assembly onto flywheel, the run-out was at .018" and that's the best I've been able to get. I've rotated the converter/flex-plate eight times, once for each bolt location, and my first position at .018" was the best. I then removed the flex-plate from the converter and rotatated the flex-plate position on the converter 180 degrees, put it all back together on the flywheel and the run-out is even worse. Finally, I took it all apart again and just bolted the flex-plate onto the flywheel, with no converter attached, and the run-out closest to the eight bolt-holes is .026", horrible! How can I ever get the boss-hub of the converter below .010" when the flex-plate is this far off? Yesterday I left a message with Broken Tractor.com, who sold me the flex-plate, asking them about this. I haven't heard back yet. Stay tuned.
Micheal; Don't beat yourself up over dropping the engine. Most of us have had small disasters similar to yours ! Do whatever it requires to get that flex plate set correctly. It has to be right or it won't last very long. Check to see if you are still watching this thread. Go to the top of the page and check your settings.
I'm seeing online I can buy a shim pack. Small pieces of steel that range from 1/2 a thousandths of an inch, up to 3/100th's for about $50. This would enable me to make shims at whatever size I'd need to get the converter into spec. Any thoughts on this? AND, if I were to do this, do you think it best to shim the 8 bolts that secure the converter to the flywheel; or, to shim the 6 bolts that hold the flex-plate onto the converter? OMG. Am I over thinking this?
Just work with what you have to get to your .010 spec. What's going to happen when the shim cracks and comes out and the bolts loosens up. You can remove a little metal (and I mean a little) easier and safer than you can add a shim.
After rereading your problem with the torque convertor run-out I am confused. I always thought torque convertor run-out is how much the hub of the convertor wobbles as it is rotated one full revolution. It is measured with a dial indicator set against the hub. The is no way that I know of that the flex plate has anything to do with convertor run out. Perhaps I am wrong. How much can you move the torque convertor from as far back into the transmission as it will go, then pry it forward until it contacts the flex-plate. That is a critical distance and may be what destroyed the old motor because it was too tight.
CB. So if I understand, you're saying do not add any shims. But when you say to "remove metal" what are you suggesting here? I'm not understanding.
Tink, you're correct. From what I'm reading, the boss hub is the part of the converter with the tangs that seats into the transmission pump. With the dial indicator placed on the side of the boss hub, you turn the flywheel and measure the wobble. It needs to be less than 10/1000". Apparently, one end of the converter rides around the pump shaft, on the transmission side, and the other side of the converter has a pilot shaft that's sitting inside the pilot hub on the crankshaft. So, the converter is basically spinning around the axis between the crankshaft and the transmission, with the flex-plate being the mechanism that's turning it all. So, since the converter is bolted to the flex-plate, and it's the flex-plate being the thing that's spinning the convertor, I would have to believe the flex-plate would play a critical role in the amount of wobble, no? It's a really weird setup. As for your comment "How much can you move the torque convertor from as far back into the transmission as it will go, then pry it forward until it contacts the flex-plate." How would I know this distance unless the whole tractor was bolted together, with me inside? What am I missing?
It isn't really a weird set up from my perspective, Micheal. It is the only practical way the drive-line can be connected without self-destructing. If it weren't for the flex plate a lot of force could be pushing the engine crankshaft forward. Or, the opposite effect would be pulling the converter too forward and then the tang contact in the transmission would be dangerously short. Those are extreme examples. But quite possible to create. The tractor does have to be bolted together to measure the movement of the convertor from all the way rearward to all the way forward to the flex plate. I suspect you may have a torque convertor that is not identical in dimensions to the OEM that was in the tractor when it was new. That is just a guess because other things come into play. Such as the replacement engine dimensions not being identical to the original one. You are right on in your description in regards to the convertor run out I think. I don't think there would be any reference in the service manual about the run-out because that is controlled by the mfr. of the convertor.
Michael, I have been reading this thread since the beginning, and have, for the most part resisted chiming in, because I worked on these units so long ago. But, with your problem of centering the torque converter, it made me think of how we used to do it, so I looked it up for my 86 Ford 445A, which is a similar setup. Reading it, it comes back to me. We had a Ford tool with pins in it that would center the torque converter. with the bolts slightly loose there is a little play that allows you to slide the plate on the converter. I am attaching the procedure, which must surly be in your book somewhere...This is for my 445A, but I remember doing it on the 555 and 555As. We actually had the tool, which is not sold by New Holland any more. I would think though, that if you take your readings and loosen slightly and bump the converter, it may move enough?? I really hate to see you struggle like this!
Hopefully you can locate or have that tool made somewhere. Sometimes just leaving the flex-plate bolts loose on the convertor and turning the flywheel a revolution will center the plate up with the convertor.
Swetz, thanks so much for weighing in; I sure do appreciate all the help I can get. Regarding the attachment, I am very interested, but don't seem to be able to download it. The data shows it as a Pdf, which should be fine, but when I click on it, nothing happens. If you're willing, can you please email it to me at [email protected] ? One thing I'm a little confuse about, when referring to the bolts. There are two sets of bolts that affect this. First, there are 6 bolts attaching the converter to the flex-plate; and secondly, there are 8 bolts connecting the flex-plate to the flywheel. So, in regard to a tool for centering, I'm assuming this would be the first set of 6 bolts, which would ensure the converter sits centered on the flex-plate. Can you please clarify which set of bolts you are referencing?
Tink, I have the same question for you as I replied below to Swetz. In your post, you must be referring to the 8 bolts that connect the converter to the flywheel. Once the flex-plate with the converter is mounted to the flywheel, the other 6 bolts are not accessible.
That is why I said sometimes it can be lined up by rotating it with the bolts loose. It appears to me any machine shop could make the alignment tool. I am posting the service book pages for the benefit of those reading this and can't see it in Swetz's post. I still think you need to measure the forward and rearward movement of the convertor before you bolt it up to the flex plate and flywheel. If you don't, I think you could run the risk of destroying the convertor or another motor. Remember the engine crankshaft cannot be forced ahead or pulled back by the componets that are bolted to the flywheel. That is why there is a flex-plate in the driveline.
Thank you, Tinkerer. I am not sure why others could not open the file?? I turned the pages into PNG files, and inserted them in here just to see if everyone could see them. Anyhow, If you know of an older Ford/New Holland dealer, they may have this tool and center up the converter for a small fee...it is worth a try. Michael...Sent you the file as a PDF and PNG. I hope it helps!
Swetz, I read through these two pages. I also just emailed you the same two pages from my manual, which has no reference whatsoever to this centering tool. See the image below from your manual. I have to imagine a machine shop could make this easy enough.
Michael, Yes, we had the tool and used it on all the ford 555 and 555A tractors back in the day. I contacted the guys in the shop and it is long since gone. In fact, no one knew what I was talking about, but, in all fairness, all the guys that worked on that vintage backhoe have left the shop, as have I. Anyhow, it did engage in the center as well as the 2 outside ends. There were 2 sets of pins at the outer end because it fit multiple Ford setups. If I remember correctly, we would put the tool on and snug the bolts then move the tool 90 degrees to check, then torque the bolts. I guess it could be made, but the distance from the pins would have to be exact. When I was searching for it online (I thought maybe an old one would be on ebay), it was funny to find that there is a similar tool available for Ford car transmissions. Not the exact tool but same principal. http://www.adaptacase.com/t-0519ac.html
Yes, I found the same one online that you did. Nothing like a challenge!
Any progress? Joe H
Michael Caravaglia, Any updates? I see you have not been on the forum since December of last year. Love to hear if you got it all sorted out??
Hello Swetz; thanks for checking in. I've actually (surprisingly) done very little with this since my last post. Just before winter hit, I'd managed to get the run-out within spec and connected the two halves of the tractor back together successfully. Then the snow hit. Heavy winter out east. Over the winter I decided to build a large finished room in my basement. I wanted to get past the framing inspection before getting back to outside work, which just happened last week. Then, I took off for a week of camping. I'm heading home tomorrow afternoon and hope to finish with the tractor next week. All I have left is to install the fuel injectors, the hydraulic power steering pump and connect all of the hoses. Then I can reinstall the fuel tank and the electrical wiring. Then I'll bleed the lines and crank that puppy over. I'm feeling optimistic about it now. I'll post an update on the day of reckoning! Best regards, Michael
COOL!!! Thanks for responding...I have wondered how you made out for a long time and decided to write you today....glad I did . How did you get the runout corrected? Cannot wait for good news...that it is all fixed .
Hello Swetz. As requested, I'm delivering the "good news". I (finally) finished adding all of the components back onto the tractor this past weekend, added all of the fluids and cranked 'er over. Started right up and purrs like a kitten! Everything seems to be fine. I did 360's around the field yesterday in celebration! Regarding the Torque Converter run-out, I never got it in spec. From all the information I found, it seemed all I needed to do was keep rotating the converter position on the flywheel until I got the best runout possible. Then, put the converter onto the flywheel and only turn the bolts down without tightening them, so the converter could still be moved around a bit. You then, hand-crank the engine over a few times (in each direction) to let the converter seat itself. Hopefully, it will hold up. I wonder what my next challenge will be?? Thanks for your interest and all of your input. I could never have done the things I did without this forum and y'all who contribute.
Hey Michael, Thanks so much for the update. I am so glad to know that it all worked out well. It was a heck of a journey, and I know you learned a bunch!!