I have a 98' Kenworth that I currently tow an end dump with and I also need to be able to tow a lowboy with it soon. I'm thinking so far I'd rather use the hydraulics on the truck over a pony motor. So, does anyone know if it's possible to have 2-way hydraulics work with an end dump or 1-way with a lowboy? Also I know this isn't the trailer forum but while I'm on the topic of lowboys; I'm wondering about whether I should get a tandem or tri axle trailer to tow a JD 200C (50,000lbs)? Just about every trip I will make back to the shop with it will involve a large hill so just on the factor of braking will the tri axle help much? I still haven't figured out if I can even legally haul that much with a tandem, I'm estimating my gross weight would be around 76,000, and right now I know I can only be 72 gross with my tandem end dump. Anyways, thanks for any input.
The truck hydraulic system should work for the lowboy, as long as it's set up for a wet line. As for the axles, I'd go for the tri-axle. Even if you were legal as far as weight with a tandem axle, every DOT cop you pass and you loaded with a 200 on a tandem would want to pull you over and check you out. The thing we know for sure; the tandem "may" handle it, but the tri axle "will" handle it.
440chevy, I would use the hydraulics on the truck. In MN it get's cold, so I would not want to be out there yanking on that pull cord trying to get a frozen snow and roadgrime covered pony motor started after the battery went dead because I did not have any either. I did it for years and now I'm lazy and use the truck. The are are good reasons to have a pony motor, I just dont use them. I think just about all lowboys are two line. I may be wrong but I cannot recall a single line on any of my lowboys, same for a 2 line on an end dump. On mine I do not use the other line. Return line I think. A tri axle is the way to go. Try to find one with a third axle lift. In Idaho (and most other states)I buy a oversize permit each year. It lets me legal a much higher weight as long as it is non reduceable. On 7 axles my permit allows me to be 156,000.
Oh the other thing I was going to ask too is how bad the mechanical detach ones are? Would I hate myself forever for buying one of these? I would probably move an excavator every 2 weeks so not very frequent. My truck has just one line for the end dump, and also I only have one line coming out of my hydraulic tank, which has me a little worried about how a lowboy would work out. But, yeah I'd really rather not use a pony motor.
I see what you're saying, The wet kit for end dump is just a pressure line out and gravity returns it. But something that needs pressure in two directions like a side dump or lowboy needs a directional valve. I'll get you some pictures tomorrow and see how it's run.
If the trailer has hyd. valves on it you need pressure and return lines hooked to the trailer. Your end dump setup has the control valve on the truck. You can use your end dump hyd line for the pressure side of the trailer, you'll just have to put the control valve in the raise position. Then you need to add a return line, on mine we tee'd it in upstream of the filter housing on the return line with a checkvalve Not real sure on your hyd system mine has 2 lines coming out of the tank, the one coming out of the bottom goes to the pump, the one going in the top of the tank is the return.
I'll have to take a closer look tomorrow but I know for a fact that I don't have any lines going in at or near the top of the tank, which always seemed weird to me but i just figured it just flowed back through the same line it came out of. Sounds like if I could rig up a return line it would work though?
I would never want a mechanical lowboy, Im pretty sure you need some work done to your trucks rails to worl with one, but dont hold me to it. Up here in michigan I have never seen a mechanical lowboy, there all the non ground bearing hydraulic models.
My preference would be a 3 axle especially with a 3 axle tractor but... 19000 truck 20000 trailer 50000 machine 89000 gross(just guessing) Should be permitable on 5 axles here in the northwest(dependant on actual weights and axle spacings of course). not sure what the laws are in your area though. You could'nt give me a mechanical detach for what I do, (I guess that makes me lazy). Mud , snow and uneven ground play hell with mechanical's I don't have a lot of experience with hyd's, your system may be different than mine.
You'll kick yourself for not buying a detachable as was said in dealing with mud, water, uneven ground, etc. Just my 2c, but why struggle? I'd set up with a 3 axle so you could scale it out better, and the wetline needs a 2 line system with a directional valve and very importantly...a RELIEF valve to throw the oil back into the return line when you max the pressure out as when hooking/unhooking to eliminate the danger of blowing lines and/or ruining the pump. Best to have your friendly neighborhood shop see exactly what pump you have hanging under the truck now too, to determine if it's even capable of the task of running the lowboy hydros. Shouldn't be a problem with adding a return line and tee'ing in somewhere. gtnbnt is correct, the dump lever would have to be in the up position to run the hydraulics, no big deal.
Are you sure that JD 200c weighs 50000 lbs? That is an excavator, right? The reason I ask is we have a Hitachi EX200 and, if I remember correctly I think is around 40000 lbs. I think more axles are better, but if you can get by with a tandem trailer and stay under 80000 lbs, would it not be cheaper in the long run as far as license plates and permits go?
Yeah the 200C definitely weighs 50k, and yes it's an excavator. Looks like my gross weight will be right about 81,500 with a tandem lowboy. According to my gross weight schedule 5 axles at 51' is 80,000, and it's looking like I would be at 53' with a challenger lowboy. So, looks like I could squeak by if I wanted to with a tandem. I'll be over 80 no matter what I do so...just need to decide if the tri is going to worth it. I won't be using it enough to warrant getting a trailer with a lift axle, and I work in the city a lot doing mostly residential work so a 200c excavator is overkill as is. Either way I'll probably end up with a challenger, since it seems like a decent enough trailer for limited use. If you were me would you get the tri or tandem?
What did you find out about your hyd. system? What does MN allow for a tandem on a non-reducible load thought I would throw this out there also...brochure says 46,130 http://www.deere.com/en_US/cfd/cons...ent_pdfs/noncurrent_excavators/DKAX200CLC.pdf
As said above, the lowboy will need a return line, and it usually comes in to the bottom of the tank, not the top. The end dump is pressure up, gravity down, and at a high flow rate. The pump that works on the end dump may flow too many GPM for the lowboy lines and valves. If this is the case, you will also need a mechanical flow control valve to reduce the flow for the lowboy. My lowboy specs were for a max 35 GPM flow, but the pump for the end dump was rated about double that, maybe more. I put in a flow control valve, and the hydraulic shop set up a flow meter. We marked the valve for the position when the lowboy is on, then open it all the way up to run the end dump. If you do not do this, you may create a headache down the road.
I have 2 lines, one is just comes out underneath on the tank, the other comes out the side on the bottom. I was going to go under there today and see if I can figure out which is the return and where I would be able to tee it. As far as the brochure, we have a 1.77 yard bucket and a hydraulic thumb so it's got a bigger counter weight on it. Or so they say at least, I'm still thinking it's over 50, because you have to figure on an extra 1,000lbs with 100 gallons of diesel and 35 I think of hydraulic fluid. Would be nice to know for sure, if I had a freakin trailer I'd bring it to a scale. Would be awesome though if it was only 46,000. I think MN allows 36,000 for tandems but I don't know for sure. That's some very good information, since I will probably end up doing the work myself. I know a good place to get all the stuff I'll need, but I don't know of anyone I trust to install it all. Going to have to find out for sure what pump I have.
Boy was I wrong Not sure what I was thinking, next time I'll look at a truck before posting. But if you need pump #'s or anything I do have a single line and double line truck I can look at.
I snapped a few pics while I was working on it today. Didn't see any markings on the pump at all except intake, so at least I know which is the return now, it's the one I have with the tank in the picture. So, I'm thinking I'll just tee it there, and then bring it up next to my pressure. Probably just use the same style quick coupler as the truck already has so I don't have to change the end dump. Also, I'm wondering if I could put the flow control valve on the lowboy? Then I wouldn't have to mess with anything to switch between the two. Sounds like I need to get my hands on a flow meter though since I can't find any numbers on my pump. Anyways thanks for all the help so far guys, going to make it much easier to figure this all out.
I would put the flow control valve on the truck. That way, if you ever get another trailer, you will be set already. I know my hydraulic folding tail trailer has a max of 35 GPM, so I set the valve (it has a handle) to 35, then scribed a mark. When I put an end dump on, it is easy to push the flow lever to max, then when the lowboy is on, put it back to the mark. Also, if I ever get a trailer which has a different flow requirement, I can test and mark the valve again. The local hydraulic shop I bought the parts from had a flow meter. We hooked into the return line, and made the adjustments. Be sure to check that the setting is at max whether at idle or higher rpm.
weight How is your 200C John Deere set up that it weighs 50,000 lbs? I have one with a 60 ft. long stick, wide pads, and heavy counter weight and not even close to that?
I haven't weighed it so I don't know for sure, guess I shouldn't have said definitetly. The salesmen told me 50,000 though. What does yours weigh with all of that? I'm calling this guy for sure monday to tell him to get me an exact weight. If it's under 50,000 I could get a tandem for sure and stay under 80,000.
Weight I think you need a new sales man My 200CLC weighs about 48,800 lbs and I have a 2000 lb. heavier counter weight plus the 60 foot long stick, aux. hydr. and thumb. I don' thing you can weigh 45,000 at the most. A 200LC will weigh about 44000 lbs. The 200DLC weight is only 49500 lbs. and John Deere increased the weight to compare with the older model 690ELC so they can be a little better than the Cat and Komatsu excavators. I hauled my 200LC on a two axle trailer all the time when I had one. and was fine with weights on axles. I never had the 200CLC on a two axle trailer but the increased weight of the extra axle, extra weight of the trailer frame and extra weight of the machine. I have to watch where I put the 200CLC. I don't know all what you are going to haul but I would at least get a trailer that you could add an axle to, if you need to. I didn't do that with my first trailer and ended up rebuilding it so I could add a third axle (I was lucky as the trailer was rated for 50 tons). My new trailer is three axles with a four flip and a one /two axle stinger for the rear. I use it mostly with just three axles and can let the air out of each axle from the truck if I needed to turn. I can not raise an axle because I have 17.5 tires and there is not enough room to raise an axle, (3 inches of clearness at most between axle and frame0. Don't get 17.5 tires unless you need the low rear deck, get 22.5 tires. 22.5 tires will last longer and are cheaper than 17.5. I haul a lot of tall loads so I needed the extra clearness on the rear deck.
Well it is a 200C LC, has a 1.77 yard Nortrax bucket, a hydraulic thumb, and a heavier counter weight. Compared to the bucket that is listed in the brochure someone posted before, my bucket weighs almost exactly 1,000lbs more. So, the brochure says: With full fuel tank; 175-lb. (79 kg) operator; and 32-in. (800 mm) triple semi-grouser shoes With 1.12-cu. yd. (0.86 m3), 42-in. (1065 mm), 1,590-lb. (723 kg) general-purpose bucket; 9-ft. 7-in. (2.91 m) arm; and 10,270-lb. (4658 kg) counterweight..........................46,130 lb. (20 925 kg) If I have 1,000 more for the bucket, 2,000 more for the counter weight (guessing), and who knows how much for the hydraulic thumb. That puts me right up there near 50,000. Makes sense to me I guess, who knows though.
Looks like standard counterweight.
Yeah it is, but I was able to weigh it this week and it weighs 48,250 give or take 20. So still up there. I figured out I can't run on 10 ton roads without a tri axle anyway, so a tri it is.
Not a Witzco Challenger I hope. :Banghead Go with a non-ground engaging neck, air ride and a stick well between the frame. It may cost more up front but in the long run these options more than justify the extra money.