Just picking some brains. Just watched a video on a tc12. Restored machine, cable hoist, twin Detroits. It seems to be 2 machines bolted together, minus the extra tracks. I noticed movement of the 2 hoods, and a gap that seems to run from front to back. Anyone have any experience with these machines?
No personal experience. My grandfather was a Euclid mechanic back in the day installing Interstate 10 in the south. Yes they were two dozers bolted together working in sync. As a young kid all the way into my adult years working on equipment myself I always found it interesting to hear him speak of his experience, especially the euclid dozers. Before he passed he gave me a key chain with a heavy stamped coin like medallion depicting the euclid dozer.
Yes, a few of the Euclid TC-12's made it to our neck of the woods. They were a huge machine for the era, and a couple were purchased locally for ripping caprock over limestone, to access the softer limestone for road base and building stone. The caprock had to be blasted previously. The TC-12 had two separate drivetrains and a pivot at the rear between the frames. Their weak point was their final drives and tracks, they used to chew them out too fast. In fact, the TC-12 would snap track chains under heavy load once the chains got worn. The Euclid dozer was born right after GM bought up Euclid from the 5 Armington brothers in Sept 1953. GM wanted to beat Caterpillar at their own game and Cat got a bit of a fright at GM's entry into the earthmover market, so it made Cat sit up and smarten up their game in 1955. GM were the biggest and wealthiest corporation in the world in the early 1950's and they had the ability to really decimate Cat's market share - but the Euclids and Terexes never made the dent in Cat sales, that GM thought they would. The Euclid TC-12 appeared first in 1955 and the Euclid C-6 appeared very shortly afterwards. They both used the same drivetrain, it was like the TC-12 was two C-6's joined together - but the TC-12 was actually designed as a stand-alone design, alongside the C-6 being designed at the same time. They just used a lot of common components, such as engine and drivetrain. GM management was intent on using their massive design studio to put "styling" into their earthmover product line - but that "styling" effort, especially on the nose of the early Euclids, made for a weak hardnose, so they had to do major redesign work on the nose of the early Euclid tractors. The TC-12 sold slowly, mainly due to its huge weight and size, and it morphed into the Euclid 82-80 in 1966, before GM had to change the product name to Terex (and Terex 82-80), thanks to a U.S. Govt anti-trust lawsuit. Once the D9H appeared, it was a match for the TC-12/Terex 82-80, and that along with the TC-12/82-80's weaknesses eventually made sales of the 82-80 taper off. When the first elevated track D10's appeared, they blew the 82-80 right out of the water. Here's one of the local TC-12 survivors, it's in a local Heritage Machinery collection. I took the photo in 2009. The tractor is still fully operational. It is impressive to see it operating. DARD-TC12.jpg by Ron N pbase.com
As I understand it, you can steer three ways: pull the steering clutch, downshift one side or throttle down one side.
The TC-12 was cast into a famous movie {A great movie, they don't make them like that any more}, 1963 Lilies of the Field-in which Sidney Poitier gets a job at a construction company operating a dozer.
See now, as soon as you said a movie, I pictured the D7 in Heartbreak Ridge.
No that movie with the d155 in it based on a true story
I'm thinking that the TC-12 had a pair of 110 Detroits powering it. Nope I was wrong it was a pair of 6-71s: Specifications 1964 Euclid TC-12 Engine: GM 6-71 (x2) Displacement: 425 ci (each) Bore & Stroke: 4.26 x 5 in. Flywheel Power: 454 hp @ 2100 rpm (both) Rated Torque: 1,212 lbs-ft @ 1400 (both) Compression Ratio: 17:1 Transmission: Allison CRT-5531-1 (two) Weight: 69,500 lbs. (operating) LxWxH: 16 ft. 3 in. x 11 ft. 5 in. x 8 ft .8 in. Fuel Capacity: 225 gal. Tracks: 43 shoes, 27 in. width Top Speed: 6.80 mph
Oh she looks like she was quite a weapon in her day.
What was the last year that the Detroit 110 was commonly used in equipment? I had an old American dragline at one of the sand mines I managed in the early 80's. I always wondered what the approx age was of that machine. It had a good running 6-110 in it.
Funny the 6-110 wasn't worth a **** in a truck, P.I.E. tried them when it first came out, never ordered anymore. had supercharger issues. * Vintage Truck: 1950 GMC With Giant 275 HP 6-110 Detroit Diesel - First High Power Diesel Truck, But With A Fatal Flaw - Curbside Classic There’s a reason this 1950 GMC truck has such a swollen hood: It’s covering up a giant Detroit Diesel 6-110 engine, designed primarily for marine, military, industrial and railroad use. […] www.curbsideclassic.com
I had not heard of them before this thread.
They were quite common in the 50's, 60's and 70's in all types of machinery. By the 80's, our American with that old 6-110 was about at the end of it's life. For a long time, there was a company in Ohio that advertised they were the "home of the 6- 110". I think it was some big GM diesel dealer.
The 6-110 was the true stationary two stroke Detroit, worked well in that environment, just not rolling along blacktop.
The Allis-Chalmers HD-20, which was released in 1951, used the GM 6-110 engine. The engine was also used in the Euclid S-18 and TS-24 scrapers of the early 1950's. The HD-20 was only built for 3 years, and when Allis Chalmers bought up the Buda Engine Company in 1953, the new HD-21 that replaced the HD-20, was powered by a Buda engine. This Buda Engine Company purchase was a kick in the cojones to GM from Allis Chalmers, in response to GM purchasing Euclid in the same period. A-C kicked out all their GM engines and powered all their machines with Buda's, from early 1954. The Allis-Chalmers HD-20 tractor - Contractor Magazine In production for just three years, the HD-20 was the stepping stone between the powerful HD-19 and the very successful HD-21. contractormag.co.nz I'm not sure what it was about the 6-110, but the engine never seemed to gain the popularity of the GM 71 series. I'm guessing that not being designed completely by Charles Kettering, unlike the 71 series, it had its flaws. However, the 6-110 did use a lot of the components from the 71 series.
Most of the Budd cars, ( Rail Diesel Cars ) if not all, had pancake 6-110,s which were replaced with 45 degree 855,with TD trans. We had 6 of them at BC rail. When they discontinued passenger rail. They were sold off or scrapped, all spare engines were scrapped . I got 2 rebuilt ones out of the scrap car for my friend. He put one in his LW, they had big air compressors on them, still in the truck, it’s retired and the owner has passed on
I've never seen a 110 and I have been doing Detroit's forever.
didn't they have a 110 marine engine?
The quarry close by had a tc12. The owner was a friend of the family and i worked for him years later. The last time i was over at the old quarry there were some parts still laying around for tc12 or c6.
You are just a young fella. Need to be an old geezer like me, to remember those in common use.
Definitely going to have to put it on the list to find a 110, I severely dislike the v Detroits so that one is extra cool
Here----only one I know of that glides on blacktop. LTL Mack. *
Yeah, I know of one in a tugboat.
Well for **** sakes---that's where your suppose to find Detroit's.
I drove a Kenworth Hustler. It was a cement truck. It had a 671 with a 13 direct. The owner of the company said all I can say is drive it like you hate it, cause if you start lugging it around, it will blow a head gasket. I guess I didn't hate it enough, because she blew a head gasket. For not taking his advice, I had to help change said gasket. I backed under the plant for my first load after, I set the mixer to full mix, and hit the hand throttle at the back to full. about halfway through, there was oil running out from under her. I shut her down, and the oil mixed with fuel was coming out the oil cap. I had missed tightening one of the fuel lines under the valve no valve cover. On the bright side, the oil on the dipstick was clean as a new engine, after it was changed, unlike the old quarter cab macks in the yard.
So they have a turbo, and no super charger?
When I was younger the "Schilli" yard in E. St. Louis, IL had at least one and I think two switcher engines having 4-149 Detroit Diesel engines installed. Looked like an oversized 4-71 but much larger. Very slow revving engine too but had that distinctive two stroke sound.
Two strokes have to have a supercharger otherwise they can't run, they can start with a supercharger and run only on the turbo kinda with a broken supercharger.
You need to look at the video again.
I have only seen 1 truck with a 110 in it co4000 int. Out of w.va. steel hauler seemed to do a good job
Forgetting what they called the older blowers some of the 110's had. Instead of the common style you see on all the smaller Detroits from 53's through 92's known as a Roots Blower. I recall one 110 we had as a stationary power for a crusher. That had a blower that used a compressor wheel that looked like a compressor wheel out of a turbo charger. But instead of being driven by exhaust it was powered by the gear train of the engine. A bearing failed in that and the power unit was replaced with a Roots blower version of the 110 power unit. Then when that one had problems it was replaced with a 8V-71 PTO engine power unit. Did a little search and found this info: This was from a boating magazine but basically the same engine, the blower was a "centrifugal blower".
Pleasure Boating with ear protection.
Never seen one that looks like that. I was expecting the side mounted blower like the 671
Been a lot of 53 series in pleasure boats. They were popular for their lighter hp/weight ratio when you had a 40 foot cabin cruiser that you wanted to have half a chance to get up on plane
Doesn't that 110 in the Mack have the side mount Blower? The video moves around so much hard to get a clear view of it. Believe it is down low on the right side as you sit in the seat. See yellow arrow, top of blower is just under exhaust manifold:
Here's a somewhat blurry view of a different 6-110 Detroit where you can see the blower. This one has the water cooled exhaust manifold and no turbo like the Mack has feeding it's blower.
.
Correct.
Different supercharger...maybe a "Paxton" ?
Their design and build.
The centrifugal blower looked like an over grown compressor housing out of a turbocharger the main difference being in place of being driven off the exhaust from the engine it was direct drive off the gear train of the engine. Guess you could compare that to the Paxton which are as I recall belt driven.
If you want to see some good videos of the 'Green team' in action, go into youtube tap in 'wheels at wanaka 2023' look for Euclid and Terex scrapers and bulldozers in that list that comes up. Wheels at Wanaka is a big boys n toys gathering at wanaka in New Zealand, with everything from D2 to D10. Open to public. And biggest show in the southern hemisphere. Is a video in there of a TC12 and a 82-80 pushing a TS24; 42 cylinders of 71 series all howling. Im not smart enough to do a link, but heres a still shot of another TC12 they had at the 2019 show, plus a Euclid TDT16, the worlds first twin engine scraper, from 1954, and 70 years later she is still howling
that scraper is the fo-shizzle.
a good youtube video of the Euclid gear is 'Wanaka 2023 Green machine invasion'
I'd love to make the next show, but 2027 is more likely. Rent a caravan, volunteer, the whole works. Is April a good time for a soft Yankee who hates the hot weather?
yes it happens every 2nd year, so 2025 and 27. Happens at easter. Weather is cool by then; 50 to 70f
Couple more shots of the 16TDT. Its original owner nicknamed it "Brutus", the name is still on it !
And here's where it all started - George Armingtons first rear dump truck, the Euclid 1Z "Trac-Truk", released in January 1934, exactly 90 years ago this month. George had 5 sons and they all went into business with him, when he formed Euclid Inc in 1926. Arthur, Georges eldest son, steered his father into the earthmoving business, and Euclid's initial production lines were small towed scrapers. The 1Z truck was a big step up into powered equipment for Euclid - however, taking a sensible decision and not trying to build their own engines too, it utilised a Waukesha engine. Euclid did produce their own heavy duty rear axle, though. George Armington Jr was a keen hydraulics designer and soon realised the attractiveness of using hydraulics to operate dump bodies. The 1Z took advantage of an entirely new 17.5 x 24 heavy construction tire that had just been released. The 1Z could be ordered with single tire with tire tracks, or on (smaller) duals. The Euclid Trac-Truk is recognised as being truly the worlds first dedicated off-road rear dump truck.
My son (18 years ago….) likes this Euclid! Out near Revelstoke on an old placer mining claim. It has since been ‘salvaged’ out. Not shown on photo is a 5’ high stainless extension above the muffler. To move the noise a bit further out & up?
A couple more photos The truck seemed to be in pretty nice shape, and I believe it was still being used in the 90’s.
Our C-6 (1964) Garwood u-blade, Ateco ripper. Photo (2013) taken during pushing up/cleaning off highly fractured quartz diorite. Gold will travel deep into 1/4” clay filled fractures so it is necessary to take 8’ of bedrock.
Too bad it didn't have a Detroit like a "proper" Euclid would have!
Euclid offered the choice of Detroit or Cummins power up until Sept 1953, when GM bought them out. From that time onward, you could have any engine you wanted in your Euclid - just as long as it was a Detroit!!
Noticed that after I posted, I didn’t realize Cummins was optional in the early years.
Nice looking Euc!! Sure don't see many Euclid or Terex dozers around.
It’s a nicely balanced machine, I quite enjoy operating the old girl!
Here is the electrical diagram (from the 1962 C-6 maintenance manual)….a simpler time no doubt!
Not sure about that as I have a couple sales brochures here, one for R-22 and one for R-35 that I believe are dated 1965 and Cummins is shown as the optional engine in both them. Just dug a little deeper and the R-50 shows VT-1710-C as available to replace the 16V-71N.
At the first sand and gravel plant I managed, we had OLD equipment. We had a Euclid C6 cable dozer, and two old Euclid R15's, both with little Cummins engines. The little R15's, had consecutive serial numbers. This was in 81, so I bet the old Euclid machines were from the early to mid 50's, possibly 25 years old at the time. We closed the plant soon after and all those old machines went to the auction.
I'm sure there was a period in the 1950's after the GM takeover when the Cummins engine option was no longer available - but I could be wrong. I've never been wrong before.
Well I thought I made a mistake once but turns out I was mistaken!
I drove this old beast in the early 70 s in a logging camp up coast. Im not if it was an R15 or R22.6/71 power & 5 speed.
When I started at the quarry in 1968 they used a couple of those for stripping as the quarry was just being opened at this location. Have to wonder what the guys who ran those would think about the trucks they have to run these days what with air conditioning and stereo radios!
Or what the 3rd pedal in the floor was and dont forget the armstrong steering
That whole concept of "only turn the wheel when you are moving" got lost. When you are backfilling a utility trench behind the sidewalk in a new development, that is how you steer the backhoe on the fresh, soft asphalt. You could spot the rookies who sit in one spot and turn the wheel, and burn a mark in the pavement. Same guys on forklifts. Just never spin the wheel young whippersnappers, unless that is the only way. The same forces that made it impossible without power steering are still there, and they are just beating on the steering gear.
Remember when you learned where not to put your thumbs
My first Jack Russell was a good truck dog. He sat in the seat and stayed out of the way until I pulled into the pit, where I allowed him over in my lap to interact with loader operators, etc. One time he turned and stepped through the wheel at the wrong time. OOPS!
Just remembered one of those old trucks like that one let me learn that some diesels will run backwards! Driver forgot to shift down before going up ramp and he was too slow on the clutch when engine stalled. Lucky someone who know what to do was close by and had him kill the engine before any real damage was done!
Here's an R35 'modern'* Euc alongside I-90 I doubled back to capture it in the fading light * Probably mid eighties, only 40 years old.
No wheel line in King County, had to be basin I would guess.
A little bit west of George. You can see that wheel line along the fence, but the Euc is long gone. KTA19 450 HP Cummins.
That was what we called a smooth sided Euc. That was then when they came out with the dry disk on all 4 corners and not those damn wedge brakes.
What's the problem with wedge brakes they work good for a couple months if you are lucky! Actually never had the wedgies on a Euclid but did have them on off highway Mack haul trucks and a few frontend loaders. Adding hydraulics to an air brake system might not have been the best idea. But some of the Cat loaders and haul trucks with the multi wet disk brakes seemed to work good either the straight hydraulic version or the air over hydraulic ones. I recall one time test running a 773 Cat after some shifter repair down a straight and level haul road with no load. Wanted to stop and have it go through the gears again. Touched the brakes just a little too hard and the rear end tried to pass the front end.
When Euc first started using the air over hyd. wet disk they were still using the old big can with a clasp lid same as when these same r eservoir s had brake fluid, and yes people would put brake fluid in them. This same setup on the wet disk trucks they finally came out with a kit for them that orficed a line off the return hyd. that went into the top side of the can and then to the other cans then back to tank never had to worry about them getting screwed up after that
Yea some of the Ca Some of the Cat loaders were like that I recall, about some models or s/n ranges using 10 weight oil and others using DOT3 brake fluid! I always double checked before topping up any of them.