Tesla with 500 mile range starts shipping this year. This should cause some hate and discontent.
Well, they certainly look aerodynamic. Many times over the years while grossed out at 63.5 mt, pushing into a strong headwind, i wished i had something more ‘slippery’
So where are they going to plug in at to charge, I must of missed something cause last time I was at truck stops in town I didn't see any semi charging stations. Seen a car charging station for Tesla at one of them, but that's it and I know there is nothing within 500 miles either. Even then if they did have charging stations, guess they are going to get their mandatory hours of service breaks waiting on charging
Those units will be used for a specific run to a depot that is set up to fully charge them before the return run
They could at least make them look better ....
The price of the replacement windshield should be interesting. Wonder how the boy's who like drop visors and shiny spanglers/farkles are going to like those. Paper sacks will have a run on them, everyone driving around with a sack on their head.
Better put up some more windmills to charge those things.
I wouldn't be much of a fan of buying Tesla anything right now. The way they keep a real tight hold on parts and such. How and where do you service a Tesla?
Don't need winders, breaks, styling, ..... they drive themselves.
It's just another pie in the sky idea from another person with visions of grandeur. You can put down your money now for something that may never happen. https://www.tesla.com/semi
We old guys have watched these trends come and go. Like when Harry MacDonald purchased this Hydrid KW. In less than three years, it was obsolete and could not economically keep it operating. Eaton discontinued supplying parts. Simply for show, bragging rights and tax credits. https://www.ccjdigital.com/business...le-takes-delivery-of-new-kenworth-t370-hybrid
I could not imagine taking one of those up into the woods. Pulling heavy loads of logs over steep slopes, then many miles to various mills. That does not present a clear vision to me with them.
Think of this truck like a train only running specific routes. Evs for bush trucks are very far away
They are running electric trucks right now coming out of the Port of LA aren't they? I could see that being a great route for the ev. Pull into the container yard, pull it out to a remote storage facility for transfer to a OTR truck. Charge at the remote storage yard. I talked last week with a power producing company employee, they are really concerned about a lot more power usage, when they don't have capacity for it. I've been getting notices for years that I need to install high efficiency HVAC, appliances, and even light bulbs to "save energy". And now they want us plugging in a bunch of chargers. I'm on the hybrid bandwagon. Give me a diesel over electric with a battery that I can charge off the diesel, would beat the DEF issues in the crane category. I could also probably get by with a full electric for some of my cranes- the ones that come and go daily from my yard. I'd just be stuck when they go to a jobsite for a week, with no way to charge. I can see the ev for the post office, UPS/ amazon delivery guys, maybe even the garbage trucks. Lots of short runs with regen on stopping. Daily start and stop from the same facility on 8 hour or less runs.
In the early 1980s while with Feld Truck Rental we bought EVERY aerodynamic set up known to Engineering, installed shields, flaps, skirts, accordion Side Connector Curtains, whale tail trailer back covers and what we found was we LOST Economy per ton/mile freight moved due to Weight of the Obnoxious ADD ONS. Went to the Then McDonnell Aircraft Company as had a Wind Tunnel system in St Louis. Had models constructed and tested, only REAL problem was Air Speed. Truck in the Tunnel at 65mph to 75mph had so much Negating Turbulence about it that no matter the screens, shields, blankets, whatever's, nothing showed as functional until drove speed of Air up over 130mph. That equates to a Semi(Long Nose or COE) at 65mph bucking a 65mph headwind, Long noses won the best flow at continuous Highway Speeds, COEs at general City Speeds. NOTHING is truly Aerodynamic until over 130, Railroads proved that in the 1930s thru 40s, those Streamliner engines were later discontinued as did nothing to curb fuel consumption but they looked good and looked fast standing still.
I wouldn't doubt the drivers would leave the whole truck and trailer and hop into a fully charged truck as well. I'm full on electric motors and power, I have a dream to pull my engine and drive train out of my rig and install a 3-350 HP Genset with a 6-8L engine and run a 200 HP electric motor with a freq drive. Would cost me probably 40k but 200 HP at zero rpm would give me tons of pulling power over a diesel at idle.
The reason I posted this is I posted about it 3 years ago. It got a lot of thumbs down, would never happen and no one will buy it . Moods have changed-a little more positive. Other than it's ugly sort of. Odd how people change in short time-{I think they realize it's coming and there's nothing to stop it other than electric supply. Which if drought continues that could have a major effect. One of the brand new three axle Freightliner Cascadia's showed up three weeks ago. When it hits 50mph it automatically lowers 2.5", with the newer front air dam and side foils with trailer sucked up close to rear cab faring's grossing 80K running steady on cruise with AMT trans engine rated at 515 hp 1700 torque---It's been averaging 7.8 to the gallon
Having worked Electricity industry, still have to throw a cold towel on the EV trucks, yes they can do great running the Valley or the median ranges of grades of the rolling hills N and S of there, do not see them do all so great climbing for-seemingly-ever as on Cabbage or the Three Sisters or across I-40 even in Summer where also have to consider battery longevity when severe cold arrives. Can rail freight vast quantities to depots where can then be distributed as back in the 20s/30s on EVs as that would be the functionally intelligent way to do it rather than convoys of potential catastrophic loss trucks set to individual stops all along the way. Takes Electricity to recharge these, they do have electrical and chemical fires from abusive cycling, there is a concern for battery life then into recycling these seriously toxic chemical storage systems. From the DC side it either has to be Inverted to AC for efficacy in Frequency drives where both become a loss of volumetric stores or use it as DC and deal with the heat of delivery at amperages that defy imagination. Everything still has to be cooled when Hot, even when cold outside as well during cold certain processes have to remain heated. I fully understand the Regenerative process during Braking where use generators to slow these machines recharging battery yet that also generates degrading heat and takes toll upon the systems where who is going to repair these? Will be 80% Electrician work, CERTIFIED High Voltage Electricians, the remainder being the ground pounding mechanic components that are 'Beneath' the skills levels of the electricians for changing tires or suspension or crossmembers and body work. Machines require repairs, these will be no different and there is not a infrastructure in place to do just that yet. Certified Juice-tricians are a Hot Commodity these days, not many entertaining joinng any more than newbies to Mechanical industries. Just grunts to change tires are slim in finding then have to consider that recycling industry for the batteries that also does not exist in any volume as scrap dealers also cannot find labor. Are we not painting ourselves into a exceeding additional Blind Hole Corner??
I have never studied any of the electric vehicles of any kind so consider me ignorant on the subject. With that being said, can anyone explain to me why an EV battery can't be charged while the EV is in motion? In my simple thinking mind, you should be able to generate current for a battery charge while the EV is in motion.
As someone pointed out above, Tesla is terrible with parts and repairs. Currently you can't really buy replacement parts and the current thought is just to trade it in if broken. Of course that won't work with trucks but I will be sitting with popcorn and watching how this works out.
I'm assuming your taking about using the wheels moving to charge the battery, this is regenerative braking and it will stop the vehicle, so to keep going you would have to put power to the motor
Perpetual motion machine? d.d.
If one lives on a photovoltaic system in the extremes of what most are use to and are able to do so then these EV's along with others are possible. Not much is different between a photovoltaic system and a EV, both use a battery, need battery chargers which require charge controller and instead of going to a inverter with the power it goes to a electric motor. I live off the grid as most know and it gets down to forty below zero here, if the battery on these couldn't take the extremes then I would be screwed as it's same battery tech that some of my stuff runs on. Don't think you can get parts and these are hard to work on, here this guy alone is doing it along with other rebuilds with the cars Tesla makes. Only matter of time and few guinea pigs later before same can be done with Tesla semis. https://www.youtube.com/c/RichRebuilds
that's what the current hybrid cars do, they use a smaller engine, and a battery/charger/motor, so the battery powers the car for some miles until the engine turns on, then the engine and battery work together for higher power, then the engine charges the battery at cruising speed and braking. The physics gains nothing at steady state cruising from a hybrid setup, and loses from the weight and complexity, but the real world gains from the smaller engine (but really mostly from the other mods like tires, tuning etc.) I'm definitely one that has changed opinion in the last three years as TS says. I'd buy an electric vehicle in a heartbeat, heck, I'd buy two. But I buy used vehicles, and it will be a long ways until they get to my price range, but I think they will someday, and they've reached the point where they will suit me fine. I don't care about more than even 20 miles of range, I have another vehicle for that, or 75% battery efficiency, still cheaper than other fuels. There are plenty of disposable vehicles sold new everyday, and many of them should be electric. What the govt subsidies should be is another question. Whether Tesla sells one, or a thousand semis, they'll find homes like Crane Operator said, it won't and doesn't have to be OTR or logging. Would make more sense to make a toter for the distribution center first, but that's not where the headlines come from.
You could plaster the roof of the cab & trailer with solar panels, that would help extend the range a wee bit. It all boils down to simple math. How much per hour does the truck draw in running ? How many sq. ft. of panels can you apply to the truck, and how much wattage per hour will they put out to charge the batteries ?
Battery heat/cold and cycle issues are a very little issue due to battery technology and battery controllers. Tesla cars already have cooling systems for the batteries, they may undersize on the semis which will cause problems but then they will fix it, it's not like something like that never happened on a car/truck.
You also need to add in cost of solar panels to life of them, the cost per kw on solar doesn't compare to the grid so Tesla will never do that.
Installing solar panels on trailers would make a lot more sense than just putting them on the truck. It's just another wire to hook up to the truck when they are coupled. Put an isolator switch between the panels and the coupler to truck to prevent arc when connected and away you go.
Not quite so easy as have to match Voltage with Incoming power, Tesla Batteries for Cars are 200+V, the trucks has not been discussed but to get appropriate Ah capability to HP would have to be Higher. The Bus batteries on the Metro units are not divulged either but use a 7200V charging system at 300+amp draw Per Bus. The Surge In-Rush current is why they had to have their own substation for the chargers as initiates at over 1000a. Those do also have Regenerative Braking but only adds minimally to overall life support for the batteries, intended to last four hours on charge, have extended to 5.5 so far. Batteries pack on the Metro Buses weighs in at 4600 lbs. Looked up generic EV Bus Battery, Each Cell is rated at 24v, HOWEVER, the Safety Responder sheets state can be anywhere from 390-690v present on machine. KSeries_First_Responder.indd (nfpa.org) 20180901E_BUS_bateries_data_sheet_EN (bmz-group.com)
Solar panel installation retrofits rarely make sense on residential roofs if you consider the installation and hassle of re roofing. They won't make sense for a long time on anything moving, unless it's a slow boat, or an autonomous small ag tractor. I would think regenerative braking is great for a city bus, or garbage truck, or a mailman. Not so useful on a semi, even for urban delivery. As far as heat and cold, they can develop cooling systems just like early gas engines cooling systems evolved. I haven't seen that they've solved the cold issues if the battery has to sit outside not charging and starts the day at -20.
I have a buddy that has a golf cart with panels on its roof. If in was rich i would buy one of these trucks then hire out to a generator factory.
Electric hp compared to diesel HP is way different, similar to steam HP to diesel. 200-300 HP on electric would probably have the same performance as a 400-500 diesel hp except on the top end of speeds (60-70 mph) then electrics would really need to have a matching HP especially on hills. Remember how hybrids really use the gas motor at highway speeds because there's more power and efficiency there then electric, but around town the electric is way more efficient.
What does speed have to doo with an electric drive ?
electric HP is no different than gas or diesel HP, the difference is a typical electric motor will have a service factor of 1 or 1.2, meaning it can AVERAGE 1.2 times the rated HP, so it can peak at double the rated HP typically. While a gas or diesel will have an absolute peak HP and it will be only available at one speed and falling off at varying speeds. Not such a big deal with lots of gears. I don't know if Teslas HP are under rated, I doubt it.
Biggest issue electric motor, is more HP more heat to eject from Core Windings.
Why yes we are. It won't be long and everyone can watch everyone get Skinny. The Only thing that has a way of changing people is when {Their belly button starts scraping on their spine}. Hunger has a way of changing mind set.
Yes it does
A electric drive at 0 rpm has it's most torque, the faster it goes the less power it has. When a ev truck is at highway speeds it will be at it's lower power rating, hence my saying of electric hp is different than diesel hp. You guys should watch a 80 HP stream engine do a sled pull, it will beat diesel engines with 2-3x more power. 80 HP at 60 rpm is quite a different monster than diesel, the same goes for electric. If you put a 500 HP Tesla truck at 60 mph then have it take a hill and compare it to a 500 HP diesel with weights bring the same, the diesel will kill it, now put both trucks at the middle of the hill at 0 mph, the Tesla will kill the diesel
You can’t recover energy from the spinning wheels without slowing the wheel down which would defeat the purpose of driving. You can however recover the energy of a wheel moving the suspension up and down on bumps in the road. I have seen a shock absorber that generate current when it absorbs the movement of the suspension. https://www.seminarsonly.com/mech & auto/electricity-generating-shock-absorber.php
Years ago when the Milwaukee Line was still operating {can't remember the term for overhead electric system used} catenary. the one thing a engineer did not like to have happen-stopping on a grade. When ever that did happen on the Boilston Grade up from the Columbia River a track crew was sure to be called out. The engines even with sand added would cut a long divot in the rails from spinning drive wheels. Sometimes up to 6 full length rails. The power from a standing start on a grade was hard to regulate at the rheostat for a start without damage to rails. The drive wheels usually had to be changed in short order. Told this by a old Milwaukee engineer and a guy that worked that section as part of a track crew. Steam and electric is torque from zero.
A local quarry has two John Deere loaders that are marked hybrid. Looks like they are a diesel over electric. I'll ask them how they like them. https://www.deere.com/en/loaders/wheel-loaders/large-wheel-loaders/944k-wheel-loader/
The Milw Road power was Catenary System. Used DC 600v, current locomotives make 600v AC. would be easier to rebuild a all electric rail system than rely on battery fed trucks.
Doo you fully understand how a 4400 hp - 6000 hp locomotive works ?
Not much
They should have thought about that before they tore out the road bed. But we only look as far as our nose.
Horsepower is horsepower no matter how it is developed. Torque is the ability to turn or rotate. The difference between an internal combustion engine and an electric motor is the motor can produce 100% of its rated torque at zero RPM while an internal combustion engine has to be turning at some rotational speed in order to produce any torque. I understand the limitation of the speed and torque output of an electric motor but a variable gear ratio device could be installed between the motor and the drive output to maximize that torque. There are also new motors coming out all the time now that may increase efficiency and control heat better. I've heard a couple of engineers say that "if it can be imagined, it can be built."
The Milwaukee line had transformer/storage buildings on both sides of a grade. Power used to climb the grade was stored from the train that previously came down. Rejuvenation it was called at the time.
On a smaller scale one of the national snack food companies replaced about half of their route trucks (think step van size) at the local warehouse with electric vehicles. The manufacturer looked at their routes and assured them these new trucks were up to the task. Not so much. A buddy had one of those routes and he told me 75% of the trucks were being towed or limped back with no heat or lights to the warehouse with depleted batteries. The fleet of trucks where I used to work rarely sat more than 20 minutes before another driver was taking it back out on another run. They got pulled in for PM service when scheduled but other than that they ran hard. Having to sit and charge for several hours wouldn't have worked at this operation. These may have their place but I think it will still be some time before they outnumber fuel powered trucks.
Please, please tell me you're not the guy that's going to explain everything to us. Especially if you spell do with two "oo"'s. It lessens my confidence in your intellectual status when you misspell things.
Called {Slip seating}. Oh no a spel Nazi in our midst.
Have always heard slip seating as also Shotgunning trucks. Damn hard on machines.
The Seat is still full of hot farts from the last guy's shot-gunning.
Speaking of diesel electric as a stepping stone, anyone have any first hand experience with that Cat D7E dozer with the electric drive? I know the locomotives use that setup and a dozer is a lot closer to a truck than a locomotive is.
My daughters power wheel is closer than a truck than a train is, and that thing runs when I put drill batteries to it.
Nope, I won't spill the beans, google is your friend, why should I waste my time typing out a personalized response to an obvious ignorant ? "Confidence" ? You have an odd way of vetting someone's information sir. FWIW your posting is plain wrong, filled with several major mistakes. But not a single mis-spelling. Spelling "Doo" that way is a joke. Over your head, but a Joke nonetheless.
I am told all trains have problems starting uphill when stopped on a grade. The slack in the couplers is an important feature to starting a train, it allows the engine to start one car at a time rather than starting all the cars at once. When the train stops on a grade, there is no slack in the couplers due to gravity pulling the cars down hill.
Railroads are using a new ideology, placing engines both ends and some center called distributed power where that seems to eliminate the slack coupler and ripped apart or failed couplers of the past. Also aids in getting long trains moving as are pulled and pushed.
Huge haul trucks had trouble starting out in heavy pull years ago as they had DC systems. As far as I know now, most are AC systems. There was a coal mine in this state that couldn't run the larger trucks until the Haulpak line came in with the AC systems.
Also it's crazy how much more they can pull with 2 hooked together. I worked for rail company for a bit many years ago, and with less then 10 cars 1 locomotive wasn't able to do it, but 2 together can do far more then double. Granted they were really old engines only used in the yard for switching. It is insane how much power they have. 1 car weights almost double any non overweight truck on the road. The couplers would be a huge help getting it rolling, but still pulling that kind of weight up in the mountains it's all based on power. It's insane how much they can pull compared to a truck. Basically replacing 250 semis with 2-4 locomotives depending on the route.
Coal trains coming from Mid WY to here can be 150 cars long, will have two lead, one mid and two tailing engines. Each Car has 80 Long Tons coal in it(2200# LT) PRB dirt burns, just not very well, has 2/3 the btu value of Hard Coals and about twice as much contaminates that slag out.
We loaded coal cars to 100 short tons. Each train was two engines in front and one in back moving 105 to 110 cars. They only pulled down to a valley floor and then north through the valley and along Puget Sound to Canada. Our coal was bituminous but very hot with less ash and sulfur, 12,500 BTU per pound. It was mixed with Wyoming coal for shipment to Korea and China. I see some of the Wyoming coal trains now days have three engines up front and one at the rear.
Wyoming always has one at the rear.
I think that has as much to do with braking as it does with pulling or pushing.
Hate to break up all the talk about trains, if HP is HP, that means I can put my pickup diesel engine in a big truck and start grossing 80,000 with it? Same HP after all.
I was told the one's in the middle or rear are for when they go around corners and reduce stress on the couplers. I would also assume for air pressure for braking as most connections leak like a SOB. The number of engines also very on the size, don't see a lot of them but the 6 axle ones have to be a lot more power to have 50% more axles.
With the right gearing you could.
cfherrman yes can do that, does not have the torque of bigger mass engines nor the longevity of lower rpm large mass engines. HP is but one part of that equation.
Come on guys, those are pretty lame answers.
Why are they lame? Your engine will not have the torque to do it. It will run it barely and beat the crap out of your engine.
"Distributed Power" is the spacing out of engines, not for coupler stress so much as it is for curves. "C" truck (3 axle) or "B" truck (4 axle) the HP is the same.
Exactly, so HP is not HP, there is a difference on how and when the HP is produced.
Horsepower is a function of physics and is calculated. Horsepower does not move anything, it is a measurement of the amount of work being accomplished in a specified time frame. Torque is a measurement of rotational force. It is torque that moves a train, a truck, a generator armature, a pump or a car. Torque can be physically measured. Horsepower is calculated from rotational speed and measured torque. The best way I have found to think of horsepower is it's the ability to accelerate. Using illustrative numbers, a 2,000 horsepower locomotive may have to produce 10,000 foot pounds of torque to move a loaded rail car weighing 100 tons. A top fuel dragster can produce the 2,000 horsepower but can only make 5,000 foot pounds of torque so could only move the railroad car if it has some kind of torque multiplying device between the engine and the output to the ground to pull against.
Plus that fuel dragster is only built to be able to produce that 2,000HP for a few seconds at a time. Even if it was hooked to a gear reducer to get the torque need to pull the train by the time it got two or three freight cars to start moving it would grenade from the stress on all the parts!
Political comment deleted, to comply with Forum Rules. ' No, HP remains HP, Torque is the value of work performed against HP. HP sustains basic engine operation, Torque is the work that can be delivered. Torque from base HP at 'O' RPM as with electric motors (Instantaneous) is different than Swinging Mass in a IC Engine that derives HP from Fuel to achieve Mass rotation. Ever thought as to why a Clutch and Flywheel weigh so much? LOW RPM HEAVY engines derive HP at a FAR lower range than a 6 to 9L engine, Two Stroke derived HP at near to Full RPM allowing a far less RPM drop before torque would not maintain. A NH250 Cummins made 250hp at 2100rpm, HOWEVER still maintained close to 700lb/ft torque at 1500rpm. A 7.3 PS Internasty in a 2000 Ford made 235hp at 2700rpm and only 500lb/ft torque at 1600, same load to both engines the 250 wins. Unsustainable HP to Torque Curve is what you are talking about.
A two cylinder John Deere is a very good example, very large bore and very long stroke. Will create a fair amount of torque. Cut the weight of the massive flywheel by half and see what torque-less engine it becomes-it survives by a large reciprocating mass.
Well said TS !
Thank you.
Hybrid truck in development in development https://www.edisonmotors.ca/
Looks to be a 948 for testing. Wondering what models/brands would be used. Thanks 4x4ford for posting that link, I hope they find plenty of funding and are not bought out.
I’ve been watching him since he started on this so far he’s trying to use all off the shelf parts so the large manufacturers will stay away since there is no proprietary parts for them to hold hostage he posts on tik tok fairly regularly
The reason your 350 horsepower pickup engine can't replace a 350 horsepower 855 is duty cycle. The pickup engine can't sustain full power for very long before components start to overheat. A heavy duty diesel is rated to develop full rated power for 10,000 hours straight. Your pickup maybe good for 10 minutes straight before it starts to get hot, only a couple of minutes if you have it chipped. Even overfueled heavy diesels have to be driven by the pyrometer if you don't want them to melt down.
Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall, τ is how far you go through the wall. A mating black fly can go 90 mph chasing it's mate, I'm sure if it crashes into you, you will live to squish it unlike a train going 90 mph you won't live cause it will squish you. Horsepower sells, τ gets the job done... τ is the Greek word tau meaning torque.
That's Good, but someone with a lot more cash could run over the top of him. It happens everyday.
Some years back I had a formula for brake horse power in a KW manual. It showed using all 350 hp climbing a 6% grade at 20 mph what it took to keep it under control going down a 6% grade at 20. The kinetic energy could boil a bath tub full of water in 3 seconds. Wish I could find that info, lost it.
... Just because you can squeeze 450hp/1000lb of torque out of 6.7 litres doesn't mean you should ...
Hauling scrap iron for almost 30 years with my 1967 GMC pickup 350 engine . Getting to haul with alot of other guys with alot of different engines was interesting. My pickup always did the job but i never thought it was any thing special till after i ran with 460,454, 383 and early diesel pickups i found out it pulled alot better than i thought . A good engine with the right gears is hard to beat. It meet its match one day it was burning oil on number 8 cylinder i was pushing it hard trying to keep up with a Duramax . I burnt a valve on number 8 and melted a hole in the exhaust manifold. If i would have had a gear between 3 and 4 it would have done better.
Horsepower gets the truck/car down the road. Torque gets it up the hill is how i was taught. Smaller displacement internal combustion engines can do the same job with lower rotating mass and inertia but need a transmission with more gear selection to keep the engine operating in its relatively narrow powerband because thats where they are the most efficient.
Yep Like the old engine builders say: "There is only so many horsepowers in that engine son. The faster you let them out, the sooner I have to take it apart and put them back in".
You're wrong and it sounds like you're confusing terms. An electric motor at 0 RPM is producing 0 power, power is measured in HP or watts. At very motor speed, any motor will still be producing relatively low power, even if it's producing very high torque. At highway speeds passing or climbing a hill is when any vehicle needs the most power/HP, and an electric drive will have to produce that power also, or slow down. The steam analogy is good only in that steam is a similar power storage to a battery, the limiting short term reserve that powers the motor. A steam engine could be replaced with an electric, or gas or diesel of the same HP and do the same thing with the traction engine of the same weight and other specs. Your comparison of a pickup engine in a semi is getting back to the duty cycle. A semi engine is designed to operate at a mid duty cycle for long hours. A pickup will get a high HP rating, but low duty cycle, and lower expected life. A dragster engine is the other extreme. HP is HP. Torque curve, engine reliability/duty cycle are different. Electric motors have more useful torque for many purposes, but you can't say the HP is different.
The old engine builder I was around expression's, there is no substitute for cubic inches. That still holds true today
Stall out a electric motor and measure it's amps and convert to watts The pickup engine is only mentioned that people were saying earlier in the thread a 300 HP electric motor would act the same as a 300 hp diesel because hp is HP, which is why I mentioned a pickup engine in a semi. The HP is very extremely different. I would rather take a 300 HP electric motor over a 500 HP big diesel any day.
That's the difference between consumption and production. HP or power or KW, are all measured by force times distance per unit of time, that is 33,000 foot pounds per minute or similar. Stall out any machine, and that is technically producing zero output no matter the torque, torque times zero is still zero. An engine can behave differently, but 300 HP is 300 HP, whether it's gas, electric or unicorn farts. Depends on what you want it to do which one will work better.
So when an electric motor is load holding something from going down, and it's not moving, it is not producing power? Dude good luck, things on paper are not the same in the rear world.
An electric motor not turning holding a load is in static mode, basically locked up. No torque or horse power is being generated.
Hang on guys, a stalled electric motor is producing torque. It is known as Stall torque. The amperage going in to a stalled motor can be measured and if a load meter where applied to a stalled motor, a torque can be measured. What that means is you applied a load equal to, or greater than, the torque capacity of a given motor. Reduce load applied to motor and it will start turning. Horsepower goes to 0 because there is no longer any work being accomplished as the load and motor are at zero rpm. This a bad state for an electric motor though as it produces an extreme amount of heat. The amperage (energy) coming in is still being consumed by the motor to produce the max torque/stall torque, but is no longer being converted to mechanical energy since rotation is zero. In this state, all of that energy gets converted to heat and can overheat an electric motor very quickly, leading to failure of the windings. If you reach stall torque on a combustion engine, it stalls and quits running. No more energy going in, no more output.
Please describe how your electric motor is load holding, I'm not familiar with that application. Sounds more to me like electric brake mode.
Exactly, there is no power produced without movement of the output. That's part of what I've been saying. If you can't describe things correctly on paper, then you won't be correctly describing how things work in the real world either.
Grab the shaft of an electric motor, don't let it turn and apply power to the motor. Tell me it's not producing any torque.
Electrical mechanisms in a locked rotor state do not play well, are as such unforgiving. Heat, eventual fault and failure are forthcoming. As noted fuel engines stall they stop producing everything, heat fuel consumption and torque yet add rolling resistance to hold vehicle at rest, electric motors unless fielded as to present a generator will free roll. Think on a locked engaged starter, even as a electrical motor can spin really fast if oversped and working to resist rotation can literally shred themselves in a burn down.
TS said " no torque... ...being generated" which is debatable. NO POWER is being produced. The torque is there, just no movement, so no power. You could say there is no torque OUTPUT, that's not what I'm arguing. An electric drill will have a torque curve, and a power curve, just like any electric, diesel, gas or unicorn fart engine. I'd bet the power will be highest nearer to full speed than low speed. Even a solar panel has a power curve, it's not max amps and it's not max volts, search MPPT.
I was going to give up here but you made a funny. Let's try this on paper then. A stalled electric motor is drawing 50 amps at 480 volts, which is 24000 watts, which is 32 HP. It is still doing the work otherwise it would be spinning backwards. "Parallel hybrid systems have both an internal combustion engine and an electric motor that can both individually drive the car or both coupled up jointly giving drive. This is the most common hybrid system as of 2016." Idk man I give up
You can give up, or you can understand the terms and use them correctly. Power, or HP, are measured as force times distance per unit of time, if you have no distance, then there is NO POWER. A stalled electric motor is consuming power that can be measured, it is producing ZERO power.
As I stated in my previous post regarding stalled motors, that energy is being converted to heat. The First Law of Thermodynamics states that energy can neither be created, nor destroyed, but it can change forms. The electric motor that is operating, converts the electrical energy to mechanical energy + heat. Since the stalled motor can not overcome the load to convert electrical energy to mechanical energy, it can only convert the electrical energy to heat. In this case, the heat energy becomes measured in BTU/hr instead of HP, but that is still a measurement of power. HP is typically only referenced when discussing mechanical power, which would be when the electric motor is not stalled.
Power has many different meanings. Horsepower has one meaning as described through physics. If nothing is moving, then horsepower is not being produced. Electrical force in the case of an electric motor refers to the interaction of magnetic forces between the armature and the field coils. When you apply electricity to a motor that is not allowed to rotate, current flows and creates heat to the point of burning out the insulation in the coils causing short circuits. Power is being consumed as heat. Apply current to a starter on an engine that is locked up and watch the battery leads. If they are loose, they will tense up and move around until the current is stopped or the starter smokes.
Correct @Delmer . Electric motor power is zero at zero rpms and increases as rpm increases. Direct correlation.
Just finished a conversation with a ex motor winder-yes there is stall torque, but because it's not rotating it is not measurable torque. And he likes, loves people who stall loads motors-creates good work for him or use to, he is 88.
I give up because who cares about the nuance about produced HP and consumed HP. This is all on paper jargon. What I care about is performance in the real world and this in part of what the thread is originally about. As I have stated, the HP of a electric motor doesn't translate in the real world as HP of a diesel engine does, this the driving difference if a electric truck over a diesel truck. Don't believe me, I do not care.
It does translate, that's why we use HP and torque to describe different things. In the real world, a 5HP diesel engine has more power than a "6.5HP" shop vac, but that doesn't make diesel more powerful than electric.
What's the torque on the 5HP diesel engine compared to the 6.5HP vacuum cleaner? How fast is the vacuum cleaner motor turning against the RPM of diesel engine. Why do you have to know this stuff if all you are doing is repairing and maintaining a piece of equipment? The operators only want more, bigger and faster and will never be satisfied no matter how you explain it.
https://www.tiktok.com/@chacebarber/video/7134757859958689030?_t=8V4h8p53fTi&_r=1
Janus Electric (trucks) Australia. A look at the battery and other parts put on a (Australian) Western Star. Then a run up the nearby highway at 95K lbs. https://fb.watch/f6ZvzRcSZ6/
What time of use duration? As well source of recharge power? AU is predominantly Coal or NG electrical supplies, coasts do have hydro plants when not extremely dry.
What few see of this tech is vulnerability, one EMP either natural or manmade and these become piles of useless waste, same as our modern convenience cars, trucks and phones. Only the major EU and NA nations are utilizing so much of this stuff. Asia, Africa and the lesser nations are still using old school tech, will still be running.
Pretty sweet video. I have some notes. Automatic transmission, I'm guessing a automatic manual type. Normal truck, not a tree hugging hippe look at me Tesla Prius type Hot swappable batteries, just fork and go. The only way it will work. I bet you will see subscription service for battery changes just like fuel cards. Truck was a 480 HP, and the bigger motor had a peak and continuous rating, so was this motor a 480 peak, 360 continuous? Hill climb seemed ok to me, definitely good enough. Plenty of engine brake, I bet the hp rating is also the same for brake HP. I'm glad he did the middle of the hill start(13:00), the low end power of a ev truck is epic I'm very impressed, we need to see this hot swap system with pickups
I keep hearing about leasing batteries, as if that's going to make a vehicle cheaper to own? of course it won't, it is only needed to avoid sitting waiting for a charger. You start paying every month to lease your battery, maybe you'll compare it to what a gas/diesel pickup would cost to keep running? I heard today that electric car companies are expecting prices to come down with increased production. Not sure how that's going to work if the battery is a big part of the cost, and the major limiting factor in EV production? Now if they convert to a practical iron/salt or other common material for batteries, that factor is out the window, but I haven't seen it yet in batteries. LED's have certainly put CFL's in the dustbin of history, but Li ion seems to be the dominant battery now and the immediate future.
So far the amount of lithium identified in the world is not enough to feed all the fever dreams of the green movement.
There had to be some catalyst such as new battery type or a cheaper way to make (not from scale of production) batteries to get this mainstream. Other than that an ev truck is very close.
May need to face a new reality, may not be near enough mineral supplies to derive what has been designated as the next big people and materials haulers. Hydrogen promoters are still beating the drum yet as it is cannot deliver the same power per gallon or cu ft of gas as more conventional fuels and is damn near impossible to maintain in storage as leaks through every form of retention vessel. At some point have to wake up that we may not be able to maintain status quo as to self mobility and small volume materials moves.
Unless it's a gearless elevator or other torque motor.....
I try to compare the process of lifting oil and refining it to the process of mining ore and making a battery. I'm in oil so I have a decent idea of the cost and time. The extraction processes of oil and ore are probably cost and time similar, but It seems the battery building process is way higher than just end process of oil and refining.
My thinking is of the total amount of material available. Only a couple of places on earth where you can find lithium to mine and neither is very hospitable to human habitation. Peru for one and somewhere in China for the second. Find it, move it, process it to useful product and then you get to manufacture something using that item into a product that will power a mover for convenient conveyance from point A to point B. If you only have enough mineral to build batteries for a quarter to half the demand, then only those who can pay will have access. I'm not saying that we can burn petroleum until all its component parts are in the atmosphere instead of the ground. There had better be technology in the works that uses more than just a single type of mineral or atom with limited supply.
That’s Just what my Investment broker told me. He says invest in water( tanker’s, pipeline’s )
Australia has large reserves of lithium and a highly efficient mining sector. Already contracts to supply Tesla, Ford and other companies have been written. There are also a range of other battery technologies being developed such as zinc bromide, which are more suited to stationary use freeing up lithium for mobile use. EV is highly technologically based which can mean rapid improvements in a very short time in a competitive environment.
Afghanistan
Major issues are total quantities worldwide in known reserves, alternate strategies in batteries are flopping like dead fish as to excessive weight, higher heat retention, chemical reactions that become uncontrollable. Then the major elephant in the room, Chinese Gov decided were using too much power, shut off charging stations. In USA bills were not paid so charging stations cut off, was a line of twenty plus Teslas awaiting a single group of chargers on the news as had no other place to get a rapid full charge. Brings up another point, recharge or charging short cycle these batteries and life decreases exponentially.
Scania test electric logging truck doing short distance transfers at up to 176K lbs.
https://traton.com/en/newsroom/curr...c-drive-represents-the-future-for-trucks.html Here is an article basically arguing electric is superior to hydrogen, and diesel isn't even considered. And here is an promo piece by the same company, the parent company of VW, Scania etc. https://traton.com/en/innovation-hub/video-interview-christian-levin.html The takeaway is they're driving an all electric bus, talking about promoting electric vehicles, and politics is a huge part of that, and heavy trucks are a big part of that to make the buses convincing. I especially like the younger lady plugging in the fancy cord, reminds me of the glass bowl gas pumps of the teens and twenties, a lot of show to convince the public that it's legit. Ever argue with a Tesla owner that the cord is not a battery charger? same thing, tesla makes a fancy cord that looks like it could contain a battery charger and most owners are convinced. Any battery charger over a few amps needs cooling, no way the guts of a battery charger are in your fancy cord. The bus charger is even tall and authoritative looking, that's gotta be way higher tech and stuff than the beat up welder I got.
F.Y.I. https://www.telesurenglish.net/news...s&utm_campaign=NewsletterIngles&utm_content=8 "Currently, this Latin American country has the world's largest lithium deposit in Sonora, which places it in tenth place of 23 countries with proven mineral reserves."
Not sure I can trust the whole of the report as I have no idea of who the reporting agency is. The other point I wonder about is this statement: "In April, Mexico reformed its Mining Law to declare lithium a mineral of public utility whose exploitation will be an exclusive power of the State through a new public institution." Another questionable statement concerns who will run the enterprise: "the "Lithium for Mexico" company (LitioMx) will be directed by Pablo Taddei, who is pursuing a doctorate in environmental health at Harvard University." A doctorate in "environmental health" hardly qualifies as someone who is expert in mining and the infrastructure to support it. We had a governor in Washington State that was put in charge of the US Nuclear Regulatory Agency in the sixties. Her qualification was a "doctorate in Marine Biology" Then Three Mile Island happened. I'd like to see some of the main stream media do some reporting and confirmation of all this.
My guess is they refer to short tons and it's actually 160k lbs but it's still an impressive weight. Real question though is how far can it go with that?
@0:19 the video shows a caption "gross weight up to 80 tonnes" which is metric tonnes and is equal to 176k pounds.
Did y'all see that Commifornia is asking people not to charge electric vehicles over the Labor Day weekend, since it is going to be hot?!
Chile has the World's largest reserves of lithium. It occurs around all the deposits of natural nitrates (saltpeter) that have been mined since the British opened up the nitrate mining industry in the late 19th Century. https://lithiumchile.ca/ Both Chile and Peru have long-established high-altitude open pit mining operations for both gold and copper. I don't see why litium should create too many problems for them to get out of the ground.
I don't see the mining as being a problem. Issues that I see are total amount available versus the demand for the product and the political situations that allow supply to all the industries wanting to purchase it.
Especially with Slip Seat Battery systems, Multiple Batteries for Each Vehicle kept on rack ready for swap, makes one go Hmmm. BIL working for Metro St Louis stated are only getting ~5 hours on a battery charge where have regenerative braking systems aboard. Takes between 4 and 6 hours to reach 96% charge for next use. Battery takes up 80% of the roof on a transit bus. Are too new to note maintenance needs except REQUIRED to be High Voltage Electrically certified Electrician.
Motor Age a automotive industry mag has a article (EV's Aren't Going Away} and what is going to be required to work on one. I see Kentucky is going to be the battery building state.
I don't believe they are going away either. I just point out the issues and let others identify some of the facts and solutions. I don't see EVs replacing petroleum in the near future like some of the greenies seem to think.
My biggest concerns are distance capabilities, recharge time or even battery swaps labor time, and what happens to the old batteries as there is no documented recyclers as yet. Lithium as degrades becomes Boron Oxide and is not further utilizable/suitable as a Battery component. Boron is a acidic solid.
https://www.cummins.com/news/2021/09/23/what-happens-lithium-ion-batteries-end-their-life
They speak a great line, but these batteries have not been out that long, will see how long that commentary lasts.
DM--The same was said when model T came along, the same was said when the cell phone came along. In a short time people are walking around with a computer in their pocket.
That article from Cummins didn't say anything about salvage or disposal. They say they are working with some second rate college on possibilities? It is the perfect example of blue sky and double speak that comes from a corporation trying to sell an unproven or possibly problematic product. Not only that, you can't read the article unless you allow all cookies to infect your computer?
I don't think anyone can be satisfied with anything in this thread. The whole nation is infected. It's all a conspiracy these days. People hate change, it's uncomfortable but constant.
We are just one battery breakthrough discovery from making EV a replacement for combustion engines just as cell phones have come from the Motorola brick cell phones to what you are looking at now for some to read this of today's cell phones and tablets. As for replacement by certain dates in the near future as Washington and California have signed into law, no it's not physically, economically or logistically possible. Look up how many registered combustion engine vehicles in those two states alone, then break down by the time table before zero hour and that should paint a Jackson Pollock painting of where this is going.
Had already looked that up Spud several months ago. World 1.4 billion Cars 280 million US Trucks 15.5 million US Motorcycles 8.5 million US. Lawn mowers 5 million US. Average car life 11.4 years US. Zero hour is no more combustion engines sold, there will still be combustion engines on the road. Washington State registered 2016-2.86 million. California registered 2016-31 million. I guess some will be walking-but the U.S. has a Fat/Obesity problem so it may help out there for the Jackson Pollock painting.
Those fangled horseless carriages will never catch on. Where will you get petrol to fill them, farmer browns field. Why would I waste my money on that contraption, when I can fuel my old horse anywhere. See the latest tiktok of a horse delivering fuel to a horseless carriage. They will never catch on. Keeping my horse thank you.
Better off with the horse where can also use as a lawn mower. Current average price for a EV Car $65,000 Battery life? Battery replacement costs another? Value of car at 7-8 years, projected far less than cost of new battery. Prius and Leaf cars been thru this, not good. So swap to next new as battery fails?
Change is indeed constant. The difference with cell phones and Model Ts (v horse and carriage), is that they were products of the free market. To my knowledge, the government never mandated or subsidized either of them (although the government saw the potential). The best solutions come from small entrepreneurial start ups or some guy working in his garage. As long as the government tries to control, direct, or mandate technology, it gets skewed. I would love to have a Tesla, but it doesn't work for me for a host of reasons. As has probably been stated before, even Elon Musk says we still need oil and gas.
So let's halve those numbers for schits and giggles for one state with lowest number registered vehicles and divide that by the years they got to do this. Washington state 2030 which is 8 years from now 17,203 cars +/- a month better be delivered costing according to @DMiller $65k a car for average, just in a month car manufacturers would be making $1,106,547,619 a month without interest accrued and that's with half of the vehicles registered. It wasn't til last couple of decades the gov learned they could do more with mandates, free market left the building long ago. Far as I'm concerned I don't care which direction this goes, I get a laugh both ways.
Spud-it's not that I'm for or against EV's. Hell there's a good chance I'll be dead by 2030 and never see any of this. The point is {it's going to happen maybe not as fast or slow as some think}. I've seen a lot take place in my life time and most I never thought would happen, did.
Oh I got your point and understand your position on it, wasn't aimed at you. I'm laughing at the figures and not yours but realistic numbers of feasibility. I'm in the same boat as you on which direction and speed this might go, I'm just stating the variables as is speak for themselves on speed of this going. I'm sitting in the middle of this along with a lot of other things that are out of my control.
The only thing I know for sure is my 22 year old cat is there to greet me every morning wanting fed.
I know one thing for certain, I will still be driving a diesel pickup in 10 years, and I bet anything they will still be making new diesel pickups. I am quite sure at some point in my life I will own an EV, but it won't be any time soon. At least where I live, I am certain EV will still be The big difference as said between the model t and cellphone is they gained traction because people actually wanted them and they made sense. EV are being legislated and shoved down our throat without any choice. Pencil in the numbers and feasibility of an EV, and if it made more sense then what I have now I would buy one tomorrow as I bet most people would. Telsa isn't even a car company, they are just a government grant receiver, they get billions a year. They wouldn't even be in business if the government didn't heavily subsidize them. EV shouldn't even be allowed on the road anywhere unless they are somehow paying a road tax. It pisses me off to no end that any EV owner is stealing from every single taxpayer to subsidize their BS.
Like you TS, I likely will not be alive to see the change over, personally I have no desire of a all electric auto as prefer when go to TX or OK or out to CO to stop for short fill ups and move along over a day’s time not over days. Comes down to it I will stop traveling long before then. Current pricing of EVs is limited on sales numbers where when can profit heavily will surely increase and as seen in the latest Truck sagas the prices have to rise as warranties expand and cut profit margins so that $65,000 is just a starting figure. At some point all manner of things will have to change or adjust, I too agree there is and will be no need for mandates to make the change happen.
I can see how the horseless carriage and other things that has happen did there was room for them and it was easy to slowly happen but the EV it will take a big change to make it happen. I heard that places wanted people to stop charging their EV because of a overload on the electric grid during hot weather. I hate to see the petrol engine die but worse i hate to see my freedom of transportation die.
The horseless carriage succeeded because it was so superior to the horse. Exactly how is the ev superior to the ic vehicle? I won't dispute the ev will work well in some situations. But to mandate it in all situations is stupid, but stupid is what bureaucrats do best.
Unless battery and recharger systems vastly improve as to distances reliability and dependability EVs will remain a novelty as were the early forms of electrics the Auto industry produced. Loads of items need to change up and not deteriorate or stagnate. Tesla’s big trucks will prove or disprove viability with current technology where from there the changes may occur quicker. They don’t the problems could curse the industry.
They always want to mandate one-size-fits-all, but it never does. I don't doubt that it could one day be common place to plug your backhoe in over night on an urban jobsite, but when mine is in the national forest, 15 miles from the nearest powerline, what am I going to do, haul a $35,000 power pack trailer out every evening to recharge it, then in the morning haul the power pack back to town so it can recharge while the backhoe works? Or buy an exemption to run a diesel generator to charge my electric backhoe? I am just glad I am too old to work through most of this.
This problem will work it's way out, the mandates are either to make politicians more money or break the working class into communism and not part of the natural change of technology. Horse and carriage lasted into WW2 and the ice(internal combustion engine) will last longer, perhaps never go away. The mandates will not work and get broken. Oil will never go away which is good for me since I'm in the oilfield. Ev battery packs are not currently sustainable for many uses but ev's are a better system then ice for many, many uses, forklifts that run 8 hr days are currently being converted or built new, cost less in price and maintenance. I can't wait to convert my rig to electric running a 300-350 kw 6-9l generator and a 200-300 HP motor, just need a spare rig and $40,000
I will have a EV here with a petrol vehicle, though unlike most folks it will be one I converted from a petrol vehicle for myself. Also when not going to get something for projects here across the state I actually walk more miles a month than I do drive and I do have the solar to charge a EV easily here for how long I wait before going into town. Just think a pertrol car/truck registered as such converted to a EV and not paying the gas tax or EV tax. Only drove about 100 miles last month, I have walked that at least with 10 out of 30 days here, typical walk is 7 miles when checking the mailbox unless going long way which is 10 plus miles. Sure folks have seen my maps I have uploaded with the road I am on, I'm sure someone can figure out how far it is from my mailbox to Rosebud county line in somewhat straight line and then some for the adventure walks.
Forklifts have been using batteries for forever without an issue, I worked in a warehouse 15 years ago and that's all they used. The difference? They had a charging room full of batteries and if one got low you simply went and changed it out. Not exactly the same thing as a vehicle on the road. Also they could charge 24/7 and spread the load out as needed instead of everyone charging after getting home for the evening. Electrical grids can't handle the load, transformers in subdivisions can't, and house electrical panels can't. The cost to upgrade all will be astronomical. On a house a few years ago they needed 400 amp service, to upgrade that from 200 amp it cost them over $60k, and all this did was allow 2 houses to each have 400 amp service instead of 200 each. Granted that was one house if doing a ton it would be much lower, but I know the transformer was the vast majority of that alone. Then you need to upgrade the transformers for the subdivisions, etc and everything else down the line. In the apartments going up, they put like 5 charging stations for like 300 stalls. The city here doesn't allow you to run a cord across the sidewalk to plug in in the winter, already seen one of my neighbors charging their tesla with cord across the sidewalk, how long before that's an issue? They have a front drive garage and driveway so they didn't need to, but many don't and street parking is the only option. I don't see many people buying an EV who don't have any capability to charge at home, unless they get to the point of getting a substantial charge in under 15 minutes, like enough to last the average person a week. I doubt that is even possible.
I guess I was wrong the sentiment hasn't cooled. Basically from all the responses------A EV is a Big Piece of **** and will never be accepted or viable. And there you have it. Time to move on.
What do you expect, most don’t even understand their car battery on how to keep it healthy or how to check then when they go wrong much less their cell phone batteries. Sure just run that power tool battery till dead and slap it on charge, it will last as long as running it down to 50% and putting it on charge.
Dependence will be the downfall of life as we currently know it, I think that is the only certain thing we can deduce here. Things can't last forever and they weren't meant to anyway.
Seems Kalifornia is now limiting charging. I have yet to see an at home 300 gallon skid tank for holding electrons....
The forklift batteries now last longer than the day they are used.
Wasn't expecting a damn thing Spud. I expect nothing on this forum, because everyone knows everything from rebuilding a Royal typewriter to building a nuclear powered moon rocket.
Rather ironic that Cummins follows up the Battery article on the same page with a "Ten ways to prepare for rolling blackouts" article...
Yes it is--But the reason I posted that is because Cummins is looking ahead-no other reason.
We'll be getting an EV to go along with our solar panels and ground source heat pump at the new digs. It makes sense for us when the average trip is just a few miles, what with our own charging power and the incentives that are out there for all of it. I also ride a bike and will either get an assisted bike or add the components to one of my MTB's. We will be net metering with the PUD, and can bank excess power with them from March to March, when it resets each year. I can set the charging timer to only charge during peak solar output, and not even use grid power most of the time.
Once we discover dilithium crystals none of this will matter.....
I was checking out EV's this morning, Kia has an all-wheel drive with a 2,300 lb towing capacity for about half the price of the F-150. It will do 0 to 60 in 3.5 seconds!!
Grid tie and net metering solar is efficient for half the the us, and everyone should get them eventually.
It's not here. They pay nothing for power put into the system, or close to nothing and you are constantly needing power from the grid in the winter and at night. There is also the ridiculous cost of install that will take so long to pay for, it's time to nearly replace by then. The only time I could see solar making sense is if it produces enough to not need to hook into the grid. Then you'll save a fortune on initial install and no service fees each month. But if you're still tied into the grid, around here you might be lucky to save $50/month. Even if that pays for everything in 20-25 years, what's the benefit? Who wants to bother?
That's why I said half the us, the lower half
I do my own work and building, and that would include installing solar panels. I will get a 30% credit from my solar, ground source heat pump, solar hot water or heat, and new EV. This shortens up the payoff greatly. This is how net metering works in Washington State in general, and my PUD specifically. https://clallampud.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Net-Metering-Fact-Sheet.pdf My PUD basic bill is $40. If I build it out properly I will never pay more than that.
https://www.solar-electric.com/lib/wind-sun/barcelona_brochure.pdf I just ordered the Beta version of this with breaker box, comes with lifetime warranty for the Beta version. So now I can start a project of building a EV in near future and have a way to charge it. Plus run my powerful tools in the pole barn such as bigger welding machines.
fun times Spud. I will get a grid tie inverter/controller combo ( or two ), and at least 12Kw of panels. I will get as many as they will let me grid tie in.
Yep and this unit will do grid tie too if you are battery based, to top it off it's made right up the road in Arlington WA. From personal experience their other product the Classic 150 SL bounced around in my traveling rig for 25k plus miles through dust, heat, freezing and vibrations on and off road. Lost it's voice, but it needed to shut up anyways with the random comments it would make. With 12kw worth of panels I suggest microinverters for each panel to save a lot on wiring, equipment, money and headache unless you want a battery based system for just in case. As for where you install the panels I say keep them off your roof and to go with bi-facial panels for when it snows you are still gathering light and if you want to make it look pretty put a white rock bed underneath it for more albedo which then leans towards the distance they need to be off the ground of about half a meter for lowest point. LG has a PDF on the matter, Trina is another good panel for them and Canadian Solar is second best, also very economical. Running bi-facials here myself which is great for anyone above the 45th parallel, has snow and equipment to handle them. This is my system when it gets online and this is just for the pole barn, the house will be smaller since I won't be running heavy loads like AC's, heating, dryers or water heaters on electricity. Might have to flip a breaker when it drops below -30.
Never heard of bifacial panels, that's pretty cool. I'm wanting to do pv as well just don't have the money, definitely have the room and a south fence to install them on, could change the fence to white vinyl for a bifacial panels setup as well. Wonder how much reflects off of grass.
About half or little less than snow, approximately .20 albedo for grass versus .5 for snow.
If I put them on the ground I'll flop them like they do that array alongside i-90 by ellensburg. They have it set up so it doesn't track the Sun in two axes, just the one. The thing is I can manually adjust the elevation seasonally also on a setup like that. It increases output tremendously.
For the money folks put into 4 axis tilt tracking system they can buy more panels to compensate and still come out cheaper, plus less moving parts. For 2 axis tilt system you are actually only looking about 4 to 5% gain on an average of a 18kw system in a place that gets 4 to 5 hrs of peak sunlight a day, you will only get 3 to 4 hours over there and a 12kw system will be less gain. Just put them in the middle and forget it since it's rare it snows in Sequim.
Set them up for winter sun angle or a little higher. In summer the days are so long and sunny, your batteries will be full charged by 11 am anyway even with the wrong angle. No moving parts. I worked on one guy's tracker and said never again.
Just in from BIL, ALL the STL Metro Buses are DOWN, BEEN Down. Initially started on the Gillig Chassis, Battery Coolant alarms, Lowering Level, found Battery Cooling system leaking INTO battery Spaces, ON ROOF Of Bus. Coolant is Conductive, ALL Known Coolants beyond Distilled Water or Demineralized water are Conductive except Oil Base but not feasible, Demin Water NOT Feasible. Cummins has ownership of Warranty so NOT been released to News Media, but ALL the EV Buses are currently DEAD here until Cummins determines the Repair to Fix. Five WEEKS and Counting.
Saw an article the other day on an electric Peterbilt chassis. 150 mile range and 8 hour charging period. Seems like its use would be limited to a very local delivery truck.
I could use a dump truck like that for my particular job. It is a very specific duty, I rarely drive more than ~100 miles a day. I get there and go to work with the excavator, and if I need more bedding I bring it the next day.
Have you guys solved these problems yet or should I check back in a week?
LOL!!!!! You may have a point there!!
Naa, should not take that long, maybe Wednesday after noon will be good!
It's really a shame they can't get the city buses figured out. The Scania exec almost came right out and said they're only doing electric trucks to give street cred to their buses. Buses, garbage trucks, and similar vehicles are the low hanging fruit for EV's in the western world. Cars don't get enough "duty cycle" to pay for the battery, long haul trucks are too range limited (or battery swap logistics limited). Saw this clickbait article, and it makes perfect sense, replace two cycle transportation before replacing gas cars, and long before diesels. https://restofworld.org/2022/scoote...ng-an-ev-revolution/?utm_source=pocket-newtab
I think I’ve heard some cities are proposing limiting/prohibiting internal combustion engines in heart of city. Truck like this could make those deliveries.
London has a "low emissions" area in the center of the city. A couple of the magazine's I get show telehandlers with removable battery racks, and I've seen a liebherr crawler that runs off a umbilical cord, just for london work. https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/low-emission-zone/penalty-charges Daily fee for working in the zone: 100pounds a day if you meet euro IV but not euro VI 300 pounds a day if you don't meet euro VI. Penalty if you're there but haven't paid the fee: 1000 pounds if you meet euro IV, or 2,000 pounds if you don't meet VI. Map of the "zone":
Be a cold day in hell before I’d live in a place that did something like that.
You live in Canada, every day is a cold day.
Was 30C here in Winterpeg yesterday.
I wish. We had like 2 weeks of around 30C. I am looking forward to -30C and snow!
1. Cold kills all the skeeters 2. What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger Been telling myself that for years, starting to doubt myself.
Last winter it got down to 4 degrees, something like -754 for you Canadians, and I used to work through it. Last year I said f it and shut down for the few days it was cold.
https://calmatters.org/environment/2022/09/california-phase-out-diesel-trucks-zero-emission/
Well by then all the Midwest haulers will be LONG out of business and no one looking to add more any power semi's.
Interesting. I thought WA or OR was planning to eliminate gas and diesel before that. No new diesels by 2040 and no more old ones in use by 2042 isn't exactly revolutionary, and it's just a proposal according to the link. In the last twenty years diesels have gone through the revolution that gas vehicles did between 1970 and 1990, I won't claim to predict what will come out of the next twenty.
Electrics are no answer as currently built. Will be a Decade before viability proves Yea or Nay for them.
Maybe we need to be looking to transition to more rail transport and electric for that power? Not saying it would work in every location but possibly help for some long haul things? Then again that electric power would need to come from some place!
Any company involved with EV's are keeping their mouths shut about any great progress. There is lots going on that won't be in print or news and for good reason.
Going to Catenary systems as the Milwaukee Road once used would be simplest, Engines are already 600vAC so a line transformer system to that for distance hauls would be a fairly rapid swap where Diesels can still be used or converted to a Hybrid as some East Coast engines already are.
Small planes are probably safer with a electric motor
Well that's a lot of electricity required for a state that can't power itself now.
Someone else posted about that too BV, interesting video.
I just liked the raw math he was throwing out there. Years ago I did a bit of my own math and found (I think) that single 18 wheeler hauling gas/diesel from the terminal to a gas station here in town 60 or 80 miles one way making a couple of trips a day, would carry the same amount of energy as a 115 k overhead power line, or something like that. And how many 18 wheelers of gas are making that trip every day? How many electric power lines would have to be constructed to take their place? And the power plants to make that electricity are already tapped out pretty much.
Recently on US East Coast Dual-powered locomotives debut in New Jersey - Green Car Congress
That's exactly what I want to do to my rig, diesel over electric
I work in power generation after years in trucks. What I have to say about that is that a huge generator married to a huge electric motor is a lot of weight in copper and iron 2x. Then add the batteries. It is done in locomotives, but in a loco, extra weight is a benefit, in a truck it is a liability. Also in a dozer. By contrast a truck transmission is not that heavy of a component compared to motors and generators. Maybe if you could find a way to remove the diffs, ring and pinions and drive wheels directly. But an electric motor on a wheel end, these days mfrs. can't make anything right, they would find a way to screw it up.
BV, you saw cf's "rig" is an oilfield derrick, right?
Yeah I got 4 axles so I have room and weight to spare, plus only currently goes 45 mph (ratioed out) down the road. I've kinda wondered about batteries, I don't think I would need any. First setup I'd just run one electric motor basically in place of the current drive line, but if it works like I think is have 3 motors, 1 (200-300 HP) to drive down the road, and 1 for each drum (1 200-300 HP and 1 probably 50-100) and would eliminate a ton of power transfer components. I would run electric air compressor and electric hydraulics too, so much easier setup. I would think a b6 Cummins Genset rated around 350 HP would make this thing sing.
Manual transmission drive line is 98% efficient. Alternator with wheel motors is 93% efficient.
I have an automatic, tons of drive lines, and chains and sprockets and driving down the road is my last consideration and no matter the setup you won't find me going faster than 50 in my rig And if you remember my posts earlier, electric motors in my application will have tons more power. I would bet a 200 HP motor would pull the same or better than a 400 diesel.
Problem with motors is they tend to be All On instead of throttled even when voltage or amperage is slowly applied. Seen a good many Locos lightly throttle up the Prime Mover and get drive wheel slip/spin almost instantly.
Depends. If you hook up to the grid and have a 200HP electric motor on a load compared to a 400HP diesel engine, then yes, the 200HP electric will probably have better starting torque, better torque over most of the range, and might be able to match the peak "surge load". I doubt a 200HP electric motor will last very long at 350 HP, maybe a B Cummins won't last long at 350HP either? but a bigger diesel would run at 7/8 load just fine. I know if you swapped a 3 HP electric motor in place of an 8 HP gas engine, in most cases the electric will handle the load much easier, but there's more overcapacity built into smaller motors as far as I can tell. But you're not talking about hooking to the grid, you won't magically get better performance because it's electrified. It would take quite a battery pack (not to mention a ton of engineering) to get a generator driving an electric motor to match the performance of an automatic transmission. If the other components would benefit from VFD, then that part could make a lot of sense. If the air compressor is anything significant, I'd run it off the front of the generator engine. I've never seen a diesel electric air compressor, for good reason.
I won't be running the motors over their HP rating, there is plenty of b Cummins Genset at that HP, or even the c 8.3 if needed, still better than a 14l Generator driving electric motors is not new, vfd is not new, this is rather easy, all the components are in common use. Money and time is limiting for me and currently I'm out of work due to health reasons so I am even father behind.
Dunno if this has been posted but: https://www.teck.com/news/news-rele...rt-truck-at-highland-valley-copper-operations Pretty sure that truck in the picture is NOT the one on the route. Its a standard road tractor they're using. To gross that weight legally you'd need a super b. The 25,000 kg/55,000 lbs tare weight stated seems awfully high for a daycab tractor and a super b side dump. I would think that setup should tare in at around 42-45k lbs with a regular, diesel powered daycab.
this is what I think of when I think EV. I followed along while he was building and playing with the white zombie, a drag racing Datsun 1200 with the zilla controller. It was before Tesla made it civilized. https://i.postimg.cc/25tHJMWf/PXL-20220918-142554539.jpg Back when they made little convertible metros with lead acid packs that could go ~40 miles, little home cooked rigs, neat cars like this 914.
Anything is an improvement other than the original engine-Type 4 VW was all it was.
Been meaning to comment on this as it's misleading or incorrectly compared. Trying to get more context. Engine power to the wheels in a truck is probably less than 85% efficient. Is the wheel motor being 93% efficient power at the wheel because that is awesome or is that just the efficiency of the motor? Irc regular electric motors are 80-96% efficient, not sure how efficient a Generator is, but it would definitely have to be bigger than the motor
These figures where taught to me in night school by an engineer well versed in the various drive systems. It's not my job to convince you otherwise.
Ever heard of junk in, junk out?
The only problem is telling where the junk is. The 80-96% efficiency number for electric motors would be for a certain size level and near full load, that is, a "high efficiency" three phase motor above 5HP and running 80% load would typically be in that efficiency range. At 50% load the efficiency would drop, and at 10% load the efficiency would drop even further. A VFD does not make any motor more efficient, it makes the drive system more efficient that most of the alternative systems of slowing speed.
I try to help, and this is what I get ? GIGO is the term. Go ahead, keep it up.
If this is your help, don't bother.
Buh Buy.
What does that even mean?
The abandoned Black Mesa & Lake Powell railroad used a 50,000V catenary line to power the locomotives that hauled coal to the power plant. Line was abandoned in 2019, and the power plant went dark shortly thereafter.
Which died first, the railroad line or the coal fired power plant that powered it?
They were part of the same system. The railroad was private and existed only to service the power plant. The power plant lived for another 6? months to use up the coal inventory.
A 200 hp electric motor will put out 200 hp on a 100% duty cycle basis. A heavy duty diesel like a 3406 or 855 will also put out rated horsepower on a 100% duty cycle for a 10,000 hour life. Sure, that 12V cummins in your pickup will put out 600+ HP, until it melts down in less than 15 minutes. The old saw about an electric motor being able to replace a gas engine twice or three times its rated power is true for single cylinder engines. Its not so much about power, but constant load vs cyclic power. The electric motor delivers multiple power cycles per revolution, depending of number of poles and motor speed. The 4 cycle gas engine delivers 120 % of rated power over about 120 degrees of crank rotation, and reabsorbs 20 % of rated power over the next 600 degrees of crank rotation.
It also has to do with starting and operating torque in some applications. Mostly, a gas engine will have to be oversized to have enough torque to get through the tough spots, so a third of the HP in electric will often work, even with a four cylinder gas engine. That mostly applies to under 40HP or so, and especially if replacing high reving gas engines. There were plenty of gas engines back in the day that were built for high duty cycle. Cummins and Cat still make spark ignition versions also. One of the common electric conversions is an Allis G cultivating tractor, a small four cylinder gas engine is replaced with 2HP electric and it works better than the old worn out and poor running engine. My understanding is the higher the electric motor HP, the lower the service factor and overload capacity. A 5HP electric motor can be overloaded 50% or more in the winter for hours with no problem, or easily for ten minutes in higher temps. A 200HP will let out the smoke much quicker with similar overload.
A drive will keep them letting the smoke out, and you can do some impressive things with a drive.
Ah the Magic Smoke, anyone got a Good Vendor for replenishment tanks? I do not have access anymore!!!
I don't have any sitting around but can at least give you a part number:
How do you do the refill?
Syringe into the wire
Diesel over electric w/ battery
It doesn't make sense to me. How far up a 6% can the battery get you at 80k? Seat of my pants says not very far. You will be running direct generator to electric most of the way up the grade. Also what I did not see was the giant electric heating element they must need for downhill braking after the batteries get 100% full from regeneration.
I wondered about that also, maybe they haven't got that far yet.
I had the same thoughts but I like that they are trying something new and possibly practical. I got a feeling they might just figure it out, at least I hope so.
I bet that thing can go up a grade, slowly. I think they need to ditch the battery packs and add in a second Tesla motor until they get the wheel motors installed.
Seems Teslas and Salt Conditions do NOT like each other. Aftermath of Hurricane Ian is Tesla Fires from Corrosion Onset of the batteries. Would concern myself as to Severe Salt usage of road departments in winter and how that will affect these. Florida official: EVs starting fires in hurricane aftermath (newsnationnow.com)
I've often wondered that myself. Whatever it is they started spraying on the roads here is eating the concrete up on people's garage floors. That can't be good for wiring. I mean salt was bad enough that you're re-wiring the tail lights on the heavy trucks every spring anyways, regardless of how well you try and seal it all up.
How does aluminum fare with the road salt?
I've got one of those aluminum Fords and winter of 2020 I accidently opened the door into a post at a gas station and put an inch long split in the paint where it got hit. Numerous pressure washes and 2 winters on it since then and the paint has yet to bubble, blister or flake in that area.
So far 2017 Exploder one hood due to corrosion from spot welded seam line, warranty at 11 mos., caught second one starting same region last month, body shop tried best to kill corrosion and repainted. Aluminum hood.
I was more thinking of the aluminum frame cars on Tesla's but they probably fare the same as those fords
Ford tissue paper F150s have a steel frame issue. Boxed to make tin stronger also holds all the crud to enjoy chewing on it. Local body shop has changed several full frames under ten years age and all under 80,000miles. Do not for once will believe Tesla cars will survive five to eight years in midwest full time use due to salted roads and critters that enjoy munching the soy based plastics in them.
Several times a year I shove the garden hose into each hole in the frame and flush out everything. Same with the fender wells, inside the box sides, door gaps etc. Takes a bit of time but I never have rust issues on my vehicles.
I believe Tesla's are aluminum frame
They will eat the Ford vehicles too, except they get an extra boost to gnaw away faster and longer... https://corporate.ford.com/articles...alds-coffee-bean-car-parts-collaboration.html
Only in the crumple zones.
Great now charcoal is going to be more expensive..
This is not slanted at the poster, but at who made the video So where did all the copper go that people no longer use to plumb houses anymore, Commiefornia is sticking Prop 65 stickers on every copper product running pansies away from touching it, aluminum wiring is what is used in transmission power lines due to weight and ability to run it longer and what will be upgraded to larger MCM size for more EV's on the grid. So you use more copper wiring in length in a EV than ICE vehicle, yeah well someone forgot to mention that battery cable going to alternator and starter has 12V and all the sensors and is why it's so large due to high amperage low voltage versus a EV has high voltage using thinner less strand wires than a ICE. Copper radiators are a thing of the past, aluminum ones are all what you mostly can find, should we go down to welding machines that use aluminum transformers instead of copper amongst other tools and lets go to appliances where they took copper out of such as AC's. Let's break it down to telecommunications, yeah your phone line is no longer copper either that went to fiber optics and so forth and that's for those who still have a phone on the wall. Fear mongering for gain on the all mighty dollar and control of the populace is what that is about, alright you sheeple right this way...
That's the reason I posted it Spud, it's a easily manipulated commodity.
Copper in socks and underwear as well ortho braces. Seeing more copper in jewelry at craft crap sales as use up the scrap they can get hold of. For some Reason Bronze has become a necessity as to burials again where that copper does not come back to markets. To get higher torque with better heat dispersion EV motors are copper wound, Tesla is about the only one using aluminum in motor cores. Surprisingly aluminum is still low in price while ACSR is being manufactured in Large volumes to replace aged HV lines. And for some reason seeing a larger number of heavy reel hauls with large MCM copper conductor in them.
The scrap copper price is down about 25% from the high earlier this year. Buy copper futures if you believe we are running out of copper.
Another less visual use of Copper, and becoming global is Whiskey/Whisky production, they tried SS Stills, yet had Iron damage the end product, back to Copper where there has been a 15% increase in production facilities just in the US. Tower Stills and Pot Stills take a massive volume of Copper/Brass to produce.
I didn't see the video as a hit piece trying to sway public opinion toward any nefarious purpose. It was only laying out the availability of ore and the capability of salvage and reuse. The visuals shows some of its many uses. It stated obvious facts concerning the future of the element in our societies as we swing to a more electrified future. My only assumption is that it was produced to provide facts and stimulate thought.
The video was sensational more than nefarious. Lots of metal substitution going on. Like they say, the stone age didn't end because they ran out of stones. Current copper prices are low compared to actual inflation.
A little update received of BIL at METRO, Buses STILL Down, first try to reseal, lasted two days, Cummins removed the battery units, replaced all the connecting flex joints and connections, that lasted a week. Buses parked at Cummins MO awaiting the Battery Supplier to FIX THEIR PROBLEM, may be some time before Return To Service!!
That's a bummer, they should be able to fix that, at least you would think so.
Something with too much flexing and thermal expansion contraction rates. Brings up “worked well on Paper” just not in real life.
I see years of miles of stalled traffic because of dead batteries or batteries that drained too fast or other electrical issues. 10-15+ mile backups that result in electric cars going dead to add to the problem. Going to need to keep a fleet of diesel powered wreckers on hand to bail out the greenies.
Funny you should bring that up sales of roll-decks has increased as the choice, almost 2 to 1 in some metro areas.
Just heard a rumour that companies with 50+ trucks will have to run electric in California by 2025. Seems a bit ambitious, aren't they already having issues with supplying enough power to just power houses in that state?
From 2000, to 2010 when I retired, the amount of wire we pulled in a building better than doubled. Everything needed a "dedicated circuit." The electrical closets per floor went from a simple closet with 4-6, 42 circuit panels to a room with it's own dedicated AC and 10-25 or more per floor 42 circuit panels. I personally never felt I saw a true need, but equipment suppliers demanded them. No dedicated circuit, no warranty on the copier for example. It has only gotten worse listening to those still working at the trade. I sometimes wonder if the dedicated circuit count has become a new phallic symbol rating how manly you are.
I set up our house separate ceiling and wall circuits each room on its own at least two breaker circuits, master b/r has three two upstairs baths two each. Kitchen has five including island, fridge, wall outlets, under sink, overhead lighting. L/R has four, two wall circuits, over head lights and then floor outlets. Set up that way as did not enjoy tripping a breaker and stumbling out a dark area, we do not lose all per room if trip one. And all circuits 20a on 120v 12ga wiring.
Couple issues with H2, it is not easily attained except from Natural Gas, development from electrolysis or other forms uses more energy than that H2 can return as to a Fuel, Fuel Cells still require O2 as well for the reaction and while do deliver water the volumetric quotient of Energy to Volume of gas is great on a Space Craft but about functionless in autos. Still better off with a Small IC engine Hybrid consuming conventional fuels.
That is true of all energy conversions, First Law of Thermodynamics says so. Violate it and you will disappear in a flash of anti-matter. The same can be said about refining crude oil. The benefit comes from either a release at a more beneficial time, or a more usable form. No different than Taum Sauk. The benefit could come from electrolysis using power from windmills when the wind is blowing on mild weekends and there is little usage for the electricity. The problem is making a process cheap enough to work with a single digit duty cycle. Hydrogen's biggest problem is storage. That, and the perception from the pictures of the Hindenburg crash/fire.
Had H2 in storage at the nuke, most larger power stations do for generator cooling, nuke also used for pressurization of reactor coolant to keep O2 down as would recombine at high heat in there to make more water. Keep hearing of using nukes to make H2, where we used more than could produce even as the process does produce some yet is isotopic radiologically Hot and had to be recombined in reactive recombiners to make water for discharge and to separate the actively hot gases as Nitrogen, Argon, Helium, ‘Radon Daughters’ so could store those to decay below acceptable levels to discharge. Scary when start up a recombiner heating heavily saturated H2 atmosphere from the reactor coolant off gas then add O2 SLOWLY making water until the usable H2 is gone. N6 a isotope of Nitrogen was screaming hot, half life in minutes, would be next to non detectable in a few hours.
"That, and the perception from the pictures of the Hindenburg crash/fire." The fact is, it is more than just a perception. LPG,CNG, Oxygen too are quite a lot of stored mayhem.
Well, the only saving grace for hydrogen could be that when released it goes UP. LPG pools, and CNG & Ox kinda "Hang around" too.
The danger of hydrogen is the tremendous pressure it has to be stored under the keep it a liquid. With a liquid fuel like gasoline the connection to the tank is just a slip fit nozzle that is open to the atmosphere. A connection for high pressure liquid must not only seal the fuel off from the atmosphere but also be impervious to the extreme cold that it takes to keep the fuel in liquid form. The hydrogen in the blimp was in a gas form already and the reason it flamed on when an ignition source became present.
What pressure would that be ?
I guess if it can be stored as a liquid it on needs 5 to 12 KG or 70 to 170 PSI. The tank would need to be heavily insulated. If the fuel were a compressed gas, the tank would need to be rated between 5,000 to 10,000 PSI. The facts are laid out at the link below. https://www.energy.gov/eere/fuelcells/hydrogen-storage-basics-0
So it's much like hauling any other liquefied gas then.....
What is wild is Truck Delivery is generally done by Pressure equalization, NOT PUMPED. We would use one bank that was refilled to around 2000psi until would drop below 150psi, isolate that unit bring the alternate online and allow the truck to reload the low tanks, Run the Alternate down as low for its own reload, NOT Allowed to see tank pressure below 30psig. Trucks were generally at or above 2500psi at arrival, GROUNDED EVERYTHING and EVERYONE within thirty feet of the delivery and anyone not necessary left the area. Any amount of gas in air above 6% to over 60% became Rapid Burn capable(Explosion). Generator ran in a ~70psig gassed state no less than 95% Purity. Generator or Reactor Coolant system purges were equally exciting, Main Gen we would vent lower H2 gas pressure to under 20# from a high point, begin adding CO2 at a low on generator housing entry port, when a H2 monitor would no longer detect in a offgas header would stop the CO2 and swap to compressed air until the CO2 would not register. Reactor tanks would vent off to Filter Adsorber Charcoal trains for building exhaust, take tanks Water solid after reached Zero Pressure then drop level SLIGHTLY to allow monitor of the above liquid vapor space, ANY H2 and would vent that puppy AGAIN, over and over. All large volume tanks were Building EXTERNAL situated, Vented to Atmosphere so H2 could LEAVE safely. Driver would arrive with a trailer as this, and fill from ONE Cylinder at a time.
Like any refrigerated liquefied gas, like oxygen, LNG, etc. Much different from LP or CO2. Or maybe CO2 is transported both ways, as refrigerated or high pressure?
And as I thought.
Man if only I had money and opportunity in my life. In highschool (2002) I said why don't they make small engine turbos In college (2005) I thought of hydrogen powered engines Relatively recent I've been thinking of diesel over electric heavy trucks (Thought/idea is the easiest part of anything)
Too late to the party, EV manufacturers won't allow it as too much money is tied up in the subsidy programs now along with programs to put EV stations nationwide. Only thing would save them is if they could switch petrol stations tanks/pumps out and put hydrogen tanks/pumps in their place.
A mate of mine made a system to take hydrogen out of water and injected into the intake manifold on a Toyota Coaster bus as a horsepower booster. Cost him 30 dollars to make and 0 to run was better than a turbo
Cost electricity (solar power) to take hydrogen out if water, when you burn hydrogen the exhaust is water. I always wanted to try a carb engine with a multi fuel propane kit, but hook a hydrogen bottle to it.
Workboat Magazine had an article this month on a system for the "reformation" of methanol and ionized water to produce hydrogen to use in fuel cells to power electric tugboats. They said one of the great advantages was that methanol and ionized water were both readily available in bulk in almost all ports, where hydrogen was not. I personally would not have any idea where to get either one in the port of Georgetown, SC. Are they really that readily available? On edit: the online article says 88 out of the largest 100 ports in the world, not almost all ports.
The Mother Earth news did just that a long, long time ago. Might want to search for the article.
Now this has got me thinking. If I was to put a hydrogen thingamegig into my boat a 350 Chev could be zero emissions. Wouldn't the greenies hate that.
It has a chance, because ev's are not widely accepted.
Only issue with H2 fuel is the volume or requirement to refuel a general size storage container. H2 when burns in air is not visible except the heat trails where refueling could be rather interesting. Explosive level of H2 in air is a wide volumetric and a concern. Presently the only volume method of H2 production is from natural gas, all other sources trickle in tiny amounts.
It will be figured out.
In which they are banning natural gas in California and New York so, there goes that idea...
The inherent logic and fitness of an idea has less to do with it's success than other factors like timing and popularity. Right now EV's and PV are popular, that's too shiny an object to allow room for better ideas at the moment. In the Carter years solar hot water systems were promoted, they weren't ready and left a sour taste in the public's mouth, so now we have PV electricity heating water through resistance elements, madness, but that's what's popular, so that's what's easy.
Solar hot water systems were a thing in Israel in the late sixties and early seventies when I was there. Many if not most buildings had a system on the roof making hot water. Burning hydrogen in an internal combustion engine sounds kind of neat, but at the end of the video they state that Toyota has no plans for continuing on with them after the prototypes were done. The tech I thought interesting was hydrogen fuel cells. https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/hydrogen-fuel-cell-vehicles https://www.bmw.com/en/innovation/how-hydrogen-fuel-cell-cars-work.html
I got books on those and then some of other ways one could learn to heat/cool a home naturally. What America wants is one for all a end to all way of things, they don't realize is it was to supplement ones way of life not to be the only way you did it and America got a bad taste that will never go away. Just like the half a million dollar Earthship concept idea some idiots pay into thinking it must be by the book or the concept won't work or don't know how to adjust for their area and in 10 or less years moving out cause it didn't work as they wanted. Touted as free way to build a house, yeah I can walk a few thousand feet and get a picture of a failed one some Californians never got right. I will do a video on it for everyone here to see the stupidity of society.
I would go with the D/E highway truck over full electric. Trains have been doing it for years. A lot of times you are on flat road, and you don't need all that power. I know people that have driven hybred cars and have no complaints. I saw my first Ford Lightning the other day, and all I could think was why? Sounded like a golf cart going by. Isn't that how capitalism works? Make your thoughts reality and make money off them?
I saw the ugly electric Tesla driving on I-80 a few days ago. No trailer. I also saw a natural gas powered semi again on Donner a few days before that with a trailer. I think it was a day cab, I don't remember now.
About 10-15 years ago there was a guy trying to develop h2 tech and had a prototype solar station to split H2O to make hydrogen. Without grants it's probably pretty hard to develop it. I did see some web pages long about about making, hydroxide?, As a fuel for h2 engines as it's easier to extract it. This kind of platform and tech, bring completely renewable and safe for the environment, doesn't get coverage or grants, and is one of the big reasons global warming is easily seen as a operation to destroy our current industry's and not "save the earth." (Also private jets)
I did see another battery power using zinc and bromine.
Exactly, that earthship design actually works decent in parts of NM and AZ. MT not so much, even if they got it "right". Not so great in WI either. I wouldn't take my house and experience to FL or even TN or western WA and expect to do the same thing and work well. EV's the same way, they'll make lots of sense for lots of people, I'll buy one when it makes sense for me, it's not range or charging time holding me back, it's cost effectiveness. And that's a low bar it's gotta skate under! I like the top corner of that book cover, "everything you need to get your solar tax credit", gotta get the free money. Builditsolar is a great site for anybody contemplating anything renewable energy wise, pretty straight shooter running the site out of MT, some of the links are crap, you'll get that.
My cousin built an earth berm 'underground' home in Texas ?15 ? years ago, with a 3' deep cover over it IIRC. It had shutterable windows facing south, he can either take in heat or block it and the earth keeps him cool. He also had steel shutters so he was pretty secure when he went traveling. I don't think he was in tornado alley but that same setup is pretty darn tornado resistant. It was a very passive design. I can't do that at the new property because north slope
Um, thread was dead since Oct 19th, just one slight kick and--------------------------------.
I remember a bloke who developed a system to remove H2 from water while on the move. Basically a water tank and the necessary gizmo to make the H2. He patented his invention then drove his car over a 1000 miles as a demonstration. He got a call from a foundation in Paris offering a huge sum of dough which was accepted. Turned out the foundation was operated by big oil. This happened during the fuel price shock in the 70's
A engineer at Boeing built a hydrogen separator in the late 70's also, also was bought by a oil company.
Well as they say, Ya can't drive around with a tiger in your car, but you can be happy if you've a mind to. All ya gotta do is put your mind to it knuckle down, buckle down do it, do it, do it
I haven't tried to roller skate in a buffalo herd either but someone in a truck tried.
To the original topic, there was a news report last week that NYC bought a number of all electric sanitation trucks (garbage trucks). The Sanitation Department is also tasked with clearing NYC streets of snow. The report stated the electric trucks lasted 4 hours plowing snow before the charge ran out and then had to spend 12 hours on charge for another go at it.
I think a nice hydrogen/natural gas powered garbage/plow truck would work fine--Toyota needs to get started on that.
Most of our garbage trucks in Buffalo ,NY are natural gas powered.
Not for long as they kill that fuel!!
they ain't going to kill it
Sounds about right, no regen braking plowing snow ...
When idealism runs headlong into reality . . . an article discussing what Steve Frazier mentioned: https://www.autoevolution.com/news/...rucks-can-t-handle-the-heavy-snow-207305.html
While in STL Metro The all electric buses are now in storage at Cummins yard, awaiting a failed cooling system repair plan now at three months and counting.
"Big Oil" is just a label - they are energy companies. It's their business model to not only find but own the next source of energy. I would like to the know the amount of money they spent on theories that didn't work. Not saying hydrogen doesn't work just curious of the things we will never know.
I would like to know the amount of money they pay to keep promising technologies from being developed.
You can't put chickens back in the shell once they are hatched.
How many egg shells were broken before they could hatch?
What about snakes and alligators? lol.
I'd love to hear more about this invention
The article made it sound more like the garbage trucks were under consideration, or a pilot project testing phase and might not even be in service as the snow plowing ability is essential to the political survival of the mayor. Never seen a plow on a garbage truck in the midwest, but NYC is a different animal entirely and I bet they know what they're doing to prepare for the kind of storms they get. The ignorant author that suggested this obviously has never paid attention to a winter in NYC or Denver, not the same snow, like comparing Billings to Buffalo: "Maybe NYC has to learn from other snowy cities. For instance, municipal snow clearing in Denver is done by smaller light-duty trucks with plows, and some residential streets don't even get plowed at all. There, the community probably works together to clear the roads."
Uncle explained in NYC the trash trucks would push snow to a specific spot, street crews would load it to dumps and those take to the wharf zones to dump in the river. No place to store it anywhere.
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/20/gm-investing-new-v8-engines-ev-components.html
Seems like a good idea to me. How much use could you get out of an electric vehicle? It seems state of the art EV are a commuter car for warmer climates, or a second car for driving around town. You are more remote than I. I live on a gravel road, and an electric vehicle couldn't even get here without damaging the air dam or side shielding. Part of the extended range is from features such as low ground clearance for less air resistance and special low rolling resistance tires. These features don't work well with rough or gravel roads, especially in the rain. Then add in the 7 passenger/light truck vehicles for myself and my business average 17 years old and 140k miles. How much work will it take to keep an EV rolling that long?
Only good use for a EV out here is to rip the batteries out break it down to usable voltage in series/parallel for storing solar and wind energy (it's fine to do that with these based on the battery composition) and take the regenerative braking system and turn it into a windmill. What's left of the vehicle after scraping it out turn it into a cart
Ex co-worker got bad news so is selling EVERYTHING he has owned in and around Mexico or Auxvasse MO(Pronounce Awe Vaus), he had a solar system added to his city house, was "gonna get paid for his excess electric" never metered that well, his Net bill decreased about 30% is all it ever made. His small farm site has a Game Room Barn as well the old house, had a massive solar on stilts set up there, almost made 50% of use so a net negative there as well. He finally admitted I was correct as to payback being over 20 years for what he spent starting three years ago. Well all that is water over that dam, poor diet and poorer still habits have left him at 35% heart function at 60 years old(Retired at 57). He just underwent a Heart Tissue Ablation surgery which netted only 5% recovered additionally. His wife has spells where just passes out lost driver's license, not figured that out either where these two are already bought into a GM Duramax power Crew Cab Dually 4x4, and a 40' rolling shathouse, gonna live in it and run around the country. All I could think was gonna be bad when he dies on the road and she cannot drive the damn thing back on her own. Have two boys, one is buying the old farmstead, will still base there for time being.
Fire Hazard: Norweigen Shipping Company First to Ban Electric Cars on Ferries https:// rairfoundation.com/fire-haza...rs-on-ferries/ A Norwegian shipping company bans electric cars on its ferries. According to a risk analysis, such vehicles’ fire risk is too significant. An ocean liner had recently sunk because of it. The Norwegian shipping company, Havila Kystruten, has banned electric, hybrid, and hydrogen cars from its ferries. After a risk analysis, it was concluded that the risk to the safety of the shipping fleet was too significant. If a vehicle catches fire, the fire can no longer be extinguished. The risks for ships from the transport of Electric cars (EV) have been discussed since the “Felicity Ace” sank off the Azores, Portugal, last February. E-vehicles on board had caught fire. The fire could not be extinguished. Finally, the colossal ship sank with thousands of electric cars, including Porsche and Bentley “green” vehicles. Capt. Rahul Khanna, global head of marine consulting at Allianz (AGCS), a marine insurance specialist, explains that the problem with EVs is that lithium-ion batteries in the cars can actually propagate the fire, igniting more vigorously as compared to conventional cars. A single vehicle fire could prove catastrophic. E-cars are a danger for ship passengers According to a report by the TradeWinds shipping news service, Havila’s Chief executive Bent Martini said the risk analysis showed that the fire in an electric car required a particularly complex rescue operation. The crew on board could not afford this. Passengers would also be at risk. This is different for vehicles with combustion engines. A possible fire is usually easy to fight by the ship’s crew. After the sinking of the “Felicity Ace,” Greenpeace also warned against e-cars on ships: “In general, electronic components and especially electric vehicles pose a risk for every transport.” Havila travels the so-called mail ship route along the coast of northern Norway. The tours are essential for Scandinavian passenger and cargo traffic and are also very popular with vacationers.
Was inevitable. Is ZERO long duration warning to fail and fires.
The way our power bills are structured here, I pay more for distribution charges and fees than I do for the actual power I consume.
Where I live natural gas works that way. About 20% of my gas bill is gas, delivery charges make up the most of it.
I warn people all the time that bring up wanting to do whole back feeding into the grid and getting paid. They sell it as this golden egg just as they sell the property out here like you can just be wild and free running anywhere that you are sticking it to the man. Look at California, yeah it was profitable until they hooked enough and flipped the tables now it's profitable to them and not you, same will happen to every state that allows getting paid from solar back feeding into the grid. Hook enough customers and flip the table around. Here is a perfect example of real estate: Cows are ran on that BLM land you go hunting or shooting on it and you are going to have a mad rancher chasing your arse! You aren't riding your ATV on it either due to fence line and it's not allowed.
Similar here, which is why the ban on natural gas in new construction isn't really that big a deal for places like Seattle or NYC, any new building can easily be heat neutral, that is, need just as much ventilation and AC through the year as it needs heat. And if you build that tight a building, you don't want open combustion inside your living space, and then why go to the expense of running gas to every unit if they only need a small amount of electricity. LED's, microwaves, and induction cooktops will make 200A services look like dinosaurs. Now, I think it's stupid to be closing coal power plants and making the grid unreliable before working out the smart grid (signals to people to shut off their water heater, etc. for a couple hours). But a lot of the EV and natural gas bans are no big deal. Again, it is stupid to think you're saving the planet by burning natural gas in a generator to produce electricity that then heats water or space, even with a heat pump, but a new construction building can easily save the expense of a gas hookup, and the monthly fees.
My gas company has to sell gas at cost. All money for operations, maintenance, profit have to come from the monthly service charge, which is about $56/month, regardless of usage.
I'm just curious as to how people like me would be expected to heat their homes if natural gas was banned. It would be safe to assume woodstoves would also be banned if natural gas was banned. It gets to -35 here in winter, what other options are there? Electricity? That'd cost huge $$$$.
When I'm done using the oven on bake--I leave the door open a crack to use the left over heat. cheapster.
Me too. Learned it from my family. The great depression never ended in our family.
Unless you have direct vent oven the heat will eventually dissipate into the room, just speeding up the process is all. Still will have same effect of warming the place up, negligible.
Wood is a renewable resource. The greenies apparently feel it would be OK to strip the forests bare.
Mine has a hood fan over the stove direct to the outdoors, most of the heat and any smoke goes up that by design under normal conditions. So that's where the heat goes if you don't open the door. Wife and I like "active cooking" that is put the fire to the food so the hood fan is a necessity. Don't know how some people live without them. Sometimes we set up an auxiliary box fan in the window because residential hoods are not very good.
Modern woodstoves burn pretty clean compared to woodstoves from 30 years ago too.
Solar systems have to be designed correctly or they cost you more. They are designed with a 20 year life and if the cost per kw is not under what you buy it at you don't build that solar. Lots of easy traps to fall into. Every system needs to be grid tie, you can do net metering but it's hard to save money that way and you can never plan on making money from the electric company. EVs in general will have less cost of ownership over a gas/diesel as there is less parts and a electric motor is super reliable. Batteries are the hang up and when that gets figured out the cost of ownership will be way lower. I did not think of off road driving with EVs, lol I doubt engineers tonight of that.
With battery Fires, any and all road salt deicer can cause compromise of the battery containers, sad but until come up with a different solution than Lithium not buying.
Ran some rough math, it'd actually cost me MORE over 20 years to have solar installed than to just stay connected to the grid with no solar. Realistically I wouldn't be able to fully disconnect from the grid as there are times of the year where we get very little sun. I would need to supplement the solar to some degree. The fixed costs of staying connected to the grid, even using ZERO power negate any cost benefit of doing solar. YMMV.
Canada sits on the largest natural gas reserves in the world. Both Germany, and Japan wanted to partner to develop it and buy it, but that guy in Ottawa said no.
92U, did the math just to get a payback system here, cannot achieve in my lifespan!!! Would have to survive to mid 80s with no Grid costs increases.
Its hard to sell folks on green energy if it costs more than what we use now.
Does not matter what they come up with, any energy storage of any kind will have the potential for release of energy (fire) when things go wrong, no way around it.
Capitalism sucks, but its still better than any alternative that has been tried. The dollar cost of a system, amortized over its lifetime, is the absolute best way to compare the efficiency of systems. The cheapest way is the currently most efficient way at current valuations of all resources.
Is hard to beat a 2Billion dollar nuke generating power for $.06kwh, company wholesales to grid at .08xxkwh as to REA or small towns, they get to mark up to $.14 or better, plant paid for original loans at 30 years, then refinance and get upgrades, updates and more finance to work an old machine with, per kwh went to $.067. 1200mw/hr Day in Day out hard to make a stand alone solar work that cheap.
Capitalism is a description of what just naturally is. Any other systems are an attempt to force capitalism to do something, have some outcome that is desired by some party. We don't have capitalism in this country as such. We have something more like facism lite, where the government gets to make rules and pick winners and losers as they go. If we had capitalism, we would not have engines dying for lack of ECMs and such nonsense.
Off grid systems will nearly 100% off the time will cost more then the grid. The top half of the us typically solar is not a cost effective option. Grid tie is typically the best cost effective option. Anything with batteries or a generator will be more expensive than a grid.
Well I do it that way because my hands are cold this time of year, and she's normally got something cooking in the oven. So I stand there and warm my hands. Arthritis.
You got all that right. 80k to build a good system with all the T+M and then 60 cents a kwh after that by my spreadsheet I did years ago. Battery deterioration costs $1k per year. Generator maintenance can cost hundreds/thousands and then you have the fuel burn and the wearout factor. Although 60 cents per kwh here in Ca, sometimes they seem to be getting close.
There's a pole in the alley with a wire running to my house, I come home get something to eat, go in and turn the computer on and Viola---HEF. When it wants to log on. I'm not screwing with other power possibilities, I remember my dad going up on the roof to turn the antenna so we could watch Twilight Zone, almost fell off and busted his ***. I'm not going to spend my time chasing pennies-rather be typing crap like this on HEF.
This right here got me to actually liking washing dishes.....
That would work, I worked in high school pearl diving at a truck stop, I cleaned all the plates with eggs and cigarette ashes I'm going to, have a dishwasher. My hands got a work out as a kid on the dairy farm, pulled enough titties, not going to do that anymore either. Later on when I started living on my own I would buy the cheapest pots and pans I could find and plates plus silverware from Goodwill or Salvation Army. When I used them up all in the garbage they went and back to Goodwill I went, saved time when moving too.
I'm way ahead if that is correct. That would be $20k saved by not having the grid ran to me, most I ever paid for forklift battery is $3500 dated 2021 I hope it lasts me over 3.5 years, other battery ran me $1500 and only reason I bought another one is to go from 24V to 48V and I need the extra power. Still on the $800 generator from 3 years ago to desulfate the battery and balance it out. With LiFePO4 I wouldn't need that stinking generator. Run it about once a month to desulfate for about 4 hours which is less than 3 gallons other times I run it to weld when cloudy for more than a day and that's only a hour or two. It's living as if you are still on the grid is what kills those in costs instead of changing your lifestyle for a lifestyle not meant for everyone. Use nature to help supplement your electric needs naturally other ways. Heating and cooling can be mitigated mostly using nature too.
Yeah if you have no grid it's a whole different story. I can't remember what our e cost is but it was around 13 cents
I'm talking about labor and installation costs also, everybody's time is worth something (a lot) and most home brew off gridders don't bother with conduit or fuses and breakers or enclosures so that saves a lot but you can't count that as savings because when it's time to sell, it is all worthless if it looks like a science fair project.
I loved when a volunteer estimator stated would HAVE to reroof the house and shop, HAS to be Asphaltic Shingles to set the Array on. Looked at him, said will be free standing or not at all, his return was "They are Permanent Installs on Roofs alone, No Free Standing systems in his inventory", ran his ass OFF. Idiocy prevails in these markets, about as bad as roofing hail Damage estimators/vultures/leaches.
Free standing are easy, holes, pipes and concrete. Also easy to work on, I have to wonder how many rooftop systems are broken or not working out there. Off grid people know when their stuff is broken because they see the drop in power/genset run on sunny days. Rooftop people will never know except their bill will be higher, they just shrug and pay it. Solar systems do need maintenance and repair from time to time. Especially with the fly by nights who put them up. That is why the ground is better. Seen some bad ground ones too though.
I attended the annual conference of the Equipment Appraisers of North America this week. I pay a fair amount of money to go to this conference every year and I consider it money well spent. One of the really interesting classes was done by an insider of the electric car industry. He showed the plusses and minuses of those cars. First point was that without Musk there would be no electric cars at all at this point in history. He also explained that Musk knows nothing about electric cars and was hired by the founders of the organization to head up the sales force. Musk was employee number four, not one, two or three. The first batteries used when they started were a little bigger than double A size consumer battery and were put together in packets. There were 7,000 of those small batteries used on the early cars. The cells they are using now are a little larger and they are finding out the life cycles of the batteries are far longer than first thought. Electric motor driven cars are inevitable because the motor is around 90% efficient with the energy use while a gas engine is around 20% efficient. Problems with the EV is the battery system and how to charge it. There are approximately 146,000 gas stations in the US and only around 6,000 EV charging stations. The charging station issue is complicated because of being able to charge the batteries at home on a Level 3 charger. That takes about 8 to 10 hours to charge your EV back up. The chargers on the highways are Super Chargers which take about half and hour to charge an EV. I don't remember how many cars are currently in use but he did state that and a projection of how long it would take for natural turn over to occur to replace all with electric would be around 35 years. He compared the state of the industry to the first part of the auto industry. His graphic showed a model A Ford next to a Ford Lightning pickup. He said it took a hundred years to evolve the gas engines and the cars as a whole to get to this point. Tesla started in 2003 so we are only 22 years into development of the EV to this point. Other key points were about battery chemistry, the physical shape and size of the batteries noting that there are no standards for that yet and every manufacturer is doing something completely different. He also noted that Musk sucks the air out of the room whenever he walks in but without him we would not have been anywhere near where we are now in development. He was asked about the government incentives to promote the industry and he gave lots or examples of government incentives that were done for the fossil fuel industry over the years as well.
Electric vehicles will still never excite to the level of a cammed 396.
Thanks for the reminder. The gentleman said that there isn't a gas engine made that can compare to the instant torque of an electric car.
Sound is easily half of the fun of the driving experience. I just don't see the excitement stemming from an oversized sewing machine. This as lame ** if you ask me.
The story he related is that he was riding in a Tesla with a friend going around a clover leaf getting onto a freeway when his friend said lets see what this thing will do. He slammed the throttle pedal to the floor and nearly lost complete control of the car. They were in the turn when the sudden torque overtook the steering and the car over road the steering and suddenly went straight nearly sending the car into the weeds and ditches.
There's nothing inevitable about EV's at all. The natural gas burned to produce the electricity is not 90% efficient and will not be in the lifetime of most current EV's. EV's have been around before Henry built his first natural gas engine on his kitchen counter, they were overtaken because gasoline, a byproduct of kerosene production, was found to be a better store of energy than batteries of the time. EV's are the current shiny object and will be promoted because all the cool kids have them. Just like PV, there is nothing inevitable about PV, lots of better ways to save energy etc. etc. whatever your "goal" is. PV is the shiny object that all the cool kids have to have. The economics of scale (production, installation and maintenance infrastructure) will favor PV and Li ion batteries, but these were choices that were dictated by govt, and I believe were not the best choices or place to focus. If you remember twenty-thirty years ago, everything in the future was going to be paperless, and remote. Hasn't happened and without covid, maybe it never would have? seems like there is a very current shift to remote work. To me, Musks hyperloop is as interesting as anything he has done with EV's. The travel that is needed can be hyperloop, and the commuting is no longer needed.
Electric power sources was another topic at the conference. I’ll report on that later. Fossil fuels are not part of long term planning at this time. Reality may change that. The EV speaker was a program manager for big gas engines for one of the big three car manufacturers at another time in his life.
I've heard that before about the power available with an electric car. There are a lot of drivers that shouldn't have that much acceleration potential under their foot. Maybe a permanent valet mode? Heck, even gasoline cars are so powerful the NHRA had to redo their rules as factory cars are so fast under the old rules roll cages and competition licenses were required to make a pass down the race track with a street legal, DOT approved car. We have to remember the quoted efficiency of the electric car is the propulsion efficiency. It doesn't factor in the climate control system. The climate control system is ran most by waste heat or slight parasitic loads in an ICE vehicle. In an EV the climate control system is often a much greater load on the battery than propulsion. John, I look forward to your report on the fossil fuel generation.
90% of the day to day problems with renewable electricity go away if we just have our grid retail pricing reflect wholesale pricing minute to minute. My water heater, heat pump, chest freezer, all can be shut off for 2 hours with no consequences, more if I had to. That raises a whole new set of problems though, like Gore, Nader and Hunter being in charge of the pricing, strongly influenced by China's social credit score system, and manipulated by those who learned at enron. I'm afraid the grid would no longer be an infrastructure asset to this country.
I propose/mandate-because I started this thread, that anyone reading, posting thoughts or discussing the future of Electric Vehicles vs ICE must-----------have a hairdo like Einstein and don a lab coat.
That's funny!
This will have to suffice for current time
Crack me up! and a headache too.
So knowledge and experience be dammed ? Here is what you want:
Actually we may as well have some fun with the EV situation, It's a mess everyone knows it and nothing will change in the near future.
I can guarantee you that EVs are the future, the pros and cons are better than an ice engine. The only place where an ice engine is better is in energy storage, and the hybrid already fixes this. Remember I earn my living in the oilfield. When ice came about the first thing people said is "you want a fill station every 30 miles?" The big problem with superchargers is Tesla can turn that feature off, and they have for people.
They can be worse than JD in their software crippling.
Agree but it won't happen as fast as some think or legislated. A big hurdle is convincing the public.
IMO, the worst possible thing that could happen to EV now would be over adoption without the necessary infrastructure to keep them charged. A hurricane evacuation up the Florida peninsula with vehicles out of power would also be a media nightmare. I can easily carry a lot of miles of range in a gas can. It will be interesting when junkyards get enough junked EV that aren't burned out hackers can start scavenging parts. 200 hp battery powered log splitter anyone? How long before there are jump packs for EV? Caught in a traffic jam and out of power? How much would a jump pack have to way to power a car to a charging station?
Don't get lost on the list, those are just Tesla's there is Leaf's and all other EV's there too. https://www.iaai.com/Search?url=A6MD/FE1yTZ9wD3eGCfd/LXoyIaiD3AUXobzwa5UBu4= The batteries make for nice PV system, just only one brand makes a inverter to handle the Tesla parameters. https://www.sigineer.com/product-ca...rs/tesla-battery-compatible-inverter-charger/ I can send one down a rabbit hole with EV's and how they can and do correlate to PV systems, but I digress since it gets ugly. https://www.electriccarpartscompany.com/Home-Brew-BMS-System https://overkillsolar.com/ https://sigmapowertrain.com/
Spud that avatar--looks like a bull in the field--damn that's funny. Others don't see it but I do.
Yeah if you take it out of focus you can see it, should be easy for most to see it on here
BS just seen them charging new bronco on Sunday info center said it would be full charged on Friday.
try a cammed 454 in a 77 camaro. It had more bottom end torque than my bored out cammed 396 and rumbled nicely and not too loud
This article claims an electric car is now pricier than a ICE per mile. https://news.yahoo.com/driving-100-miles-ev-now-000000887.html
That is because mfrs don't know how to build a good engine any more. GM cylinder deactivation. Low tension rings. Diesels covered with spaghetti. CVT and 10 speed transmissions. Dual clutch. The list is endless. The late 90s/early 2000s were the pinnacle and we knew it back then. It's been downhill since then.
EVs don't pay taxes for roads and might have a special registration.........lol never thought about that
States are now re-thinking about that. New technology wasn't thought about until recently. States on the west coast are all considering mileage taxes or pay as you go along with or in place of fuel taxes.
Most on here are not old enough to remember the {All American Land Yachts} of yesteryear.
My Land Yacht was an '82 Caddy Coup de Ville. Well used when I got it in 1990. It got 22 mpg on the highway ! It was hard to resell. I'm pretty good at getting the best mpg out of things...
Only land yacht I owned actually a little smaller than most, same color only powered by a 403 4 bolt with a TH350. 1964 Olds Cutlass C. Kept your foot out of it 15 mpg. 50 years before the EV roughly.
Dad had a 70 Bonneville four door 455. Barely could close garage door with nose against back wall. Deep green metallic, called it the green hornet, 12mpg on a good day.
There was ev's in the 20's
There are a couple of early EVs in the Lemay Museum here in Tacoma.
No kidding---I was referring to modern times.
We bought this out of an estate in 2004 its a 1988 Grand Marquis. It was like new and had less than 20,000 miles on it. fuel injected 302 under the hood.
Ford/Merc had a issue in 1988 with the 302 5L. I had to replace one in a Victoria/1988 while working for a Ford dealer. Ford produced almost 5,000 that had bad line bores, in drive idling you could hear the crank thumping.
Pops 70 Bonne 455 used oil from day one Finally pulled entire engine. On inspect found it had 400 pistons and had made it thru line inspections. New engine fixed oil issue, year later traded for a 72 GP, loved that nine mile hood car.
While talking about land yachts the worst one I had was a 1962 Ford Galaxie convertible with a 352 V-8. I think half the horse power from that engine went to run the fuel pump! Don't think I ever managed much over 12 mpg! What really made that Ford look bad was I had sold my 1960 Dodge Matador with a 383 V-8 because among other things the power steering box was failing. That 383 could easy get about 18 mpg! Besides being a gas hog the 352 Ford was a major dog but that 383 would chirp the tires when the TorqueFlite caught second gear!
My dad has a 66 F250 with a 352, belonged to his departed brother (who used to come on here 20 years ago) and I thought I heard his brother (my uncle) say the valve covers had never been off that engine. But we don't know how much gas mileage it gets, it's a farm truck with a small dump body.
Mom and pop had a 1966 Galaxy and a 1966 Ford F250. Both with 352 engines and neither got any kind of mileage. They were both pretty dependable. Dad traded the pick up in for a Toyota pickup in about 1970. That Toyota went untold numbers of miles. Sold me on them ever since.
I had a 1970 Ford F100 it had a 302 and a 4 speed with a super low 1st and reverse. It got almost fourteen miles to the gallon on the highway and less around town. Gas was 49.9 an imperial gallon back then.
Janus Electric log truck Australia ( converted Kenworth) running at 65 metric tonnes loaded. Mt Gambier.
Neat. It looks pretty flat out there though. I wonder how well it would work in the mountainous terrain out in western Canada and the US PNW? Hills would eat up battery life pretty quick would it not?
Not sure on the batt life but I did watch their video where there were driving a fully loaded truck on the hills, was pretty epic. A 600 kw motor is also a 600 kw brake.
Could be a good advantage on a logging truck since you're usually running up the mountain empty and coming down loaded. My concern would be the mud and all the water required to clean off all that mud. Heading in to spring breakup that mud gets axle deep and it covers everything.
You could never carry a battery large enough to make a difference. Battery life would be measured in minutes with the hills around here.
Do not see that functioning all that well in Greater US NW or the Central Ozarks hilly regions, not long enough Downgrade braking regen where uphill battles remove battery life quickly.
I can't remember their pitch on batt life, the batteries are hot swappable by fork lift and are huge, take up the underside below the cab on both sides. I don't think I'd use it for logging unless you leave the shop and go pick up the logs and deliver and then come back to the shop.
I think the battery life on some of the Janus trucks was around 500 km which is a decent distance on logging roads in Australia. Contrary to what was seen on the video, most of the logging areas in Australia are in mountainous country with some very basic roads. Lots of regen opportunity. Most logging operations don't operate when it's too wet. Just cuts up roads and logging sites which then have to be resheeted with roadbase/gravel and rehabilitated. So mud wouldn't be much of an issue. And yes, the batteries are hot swappable in minutes and the savings in fuel costs are substantial. In Australian regional areas diesel is expensive. Around $9 Australian per gallon. The horsepower and torque on these electric trucks would put the low powered US trucks to shame
Question, are these using Commercial truck Tirs or as with Tesla and the associated Electric only vehicles here, required to use a tire rated for excess torque from electric motors?
Just to play devils advocate, logging here involves mostly climbing the mountains empty and the loaded haul out is mostly down hill. The real issue is the distance between the logging operation and the sawmill dump. Haulback could provide info on how far a typical haul might run.
Around here typical is loading in the Blue Mountains S.E. of Pendleton Or, then to Lewiston Id. 170 miles one way give or take. Some loads go to Elgin Or, still 55 to 65 miles one way. A few years back it was long hauling logs from the Cascades near Cle Elum to Elgin Or. Odd seeing a loaded log truck in the desert at Vernita Ferry. A load of big sage brush.
BC used to have a mill in just about every major town 25-30 years ago. Seems like most have shut down since then. Bet its common to get 1-2 loads a day in now depending on what mill the wood is going to.
The mills around here are in the Central Valley as well. Not many of any size up in the hills for 30 years or so.
This thing is 1000HP
In Western WA the real story is once the truck is off-road and on gravel. There are so many "ups & downs" that the bottom end of the 18 speed is in constant use. On the other hand, you will just have to plug that 14 mile long extension cord into the log shovel overnight and hope the machine gets enough charge to put out a full shift the next day.
The motor in the Janus trucks will put almost every truck engine to shame. Full power at 0 rpm.
I think everyone accepts that statement. The real question is "for how long?"
I showed a friend of mine that's been in the logging business all his life this part of this thread. He just sat there shaking his head. Quote {On steep ground once it breaks traction I don't give **** how much power you have chained up or not. Your going to be yard'in on her with the 6 or what ever you got. I've worked hill sides in spring, you dragger in then slide your *** to the bottom on a taboggan run using the hand valve to drag you into the ditch on the corners to slow you down. That old 1950 KW of my dads had a 220 with a 5x4 in some ways it was better it didn't have the power to dig to china find the right gear it had just enough to pull it's self through. I can just see that battery truck setting dead while one drives past just a smoking and rattling on down. Steve.}
As long as there is a steady supply of hot swappable batteries.
I'm almost thinking battery swaps are the only real way to make EV's economical. Standardize the batteries and make them able to be swapped out in 10 minutes. Buy your electric car and just pay a flat fee to swap out the discharged battery with a fresh one.
I can just see a issue with changing out a battery that took a dump in 10" of mud.
Or climbing a 15% grade with just a few feet to the ditch and not much more to the edge of the cliff.
I think its great that people are trying this stuff out. In the real world it either works or works to an extent and people improve it, or it doesn't work at all. One of the guys I worked with when I was a lot younger was a big influence on my life just by changing my point of view on building things. His point of view was you can stand around thinking of all the reasons something wouldn't work and nothing would ever progress or get done. Better to actually take the risk and try something and maybe be surprised when something does actually work.
Pioneers get slaughtered so settlers get rich. Let somebody else put together the science project truck so you can see what works later and benefit from it then.
And this is where we are at right now with emission systems, been at it now since 2003. 20 years of design changes, wonder what the total cost to the consumer has been?
Photo courtesy of Hank R. or Camptramp.----------------------------------------- This would be a great spot to have a major electrical issue. Just to add to the drama.
EXCESSIVE
Would be NO battery swap or any way to complete any electrical repairs in that vile spot of the road!!.
The spot in the road applies to liquid power as well.
The running out of power bit doesn't really matter much. You aren't going to head 20 miles up into the mountains with 20% battery any more than you would with 20% fuel remaining. Unless you have a tank back there. Which is where those hot swappable batteries come in. But about these batteries. Is this going to be a big version of the passenger seat of a carpenter's pick up, with 5 DeWalt batteries floating around? Maybe the battery flatbed? And who is buying these batteries? A Milwaukee drill battery is like $200 anymore. What's a truck battery going to cost, 30k?
I only posted that to keep the optimistic approach alive.
A battery for a Tesla "S" is $22000 US plus install. I would expect at least five or ten times that for a truck battery.
Buy a truck for $300,000, and a spare set of batteries for $200,000. But you don't have to buy fuel. How much is it going to cost to build a personal solar farm to collect that free electricity?
In the Janus case, the batteries are leased and you only pay for the power you use. Until a fundamental change in batteries this is where we will be at. We really need to start working with nukes again, in the us they block everything.
If super capacitors are perfected, it will change everything. A battery stores energy as a chemical reaction, oxidizing and reducing some metals over and over. Eventually this wears out. A capacitor is just a couple of plates separated by an insulator and stores energy as static electricity on the plates. Nothing wears out or changes. Capacitors are better than batteries in every way, except we have not yet figured out how to make them cheaply enough. If we do, then electric cars, trucks, airplanes and everything will become the norm.
Capacitors still go bad, idk why probably outside corrosion. Would these capacitors have the problem of blowing up if sat unused like the ones do now?
No body has mentioned what happens to one of these batteries after shock/vibration. Now just wait till there's a battery powered D11------I wonder how that will go over.
You are thinking of electrolytic capacitors which are not in play in this new(ish) idea. These supercapacitors would be simply sandwiches of conductive material (like metal or carbon) separated by insulating material (like mica) only on a very small level. The difficulty is in manufacturing them affordably.
Not a D11, but Bobcat has an electric track loader. Not sure if it is really out there in the real world beyond photo ops and green headlines, but it exists in some form. Doesn't even have hydraulics, electric actuators. Hope those hold up better than the electric quick attach actuators Cat used on the D model skid loaders. https://www.bobcat.com/na/en/equipment/future-products/t7x-electric-compact-track-loader
A battery powered equipment would probably need 20% less power to have the same "power" because of hydraulics. Battery forklifts are really awesome
Lets see, the T7X has cutting edge software {ooh that's a play on words} to help the operator get the work done {faster}. All word salad, typical sales malarkey. Able to run 4 hours on a full charge. {That's in ideal conditions which they fail to note} Does anyone on here know of one of these in use.
Any batteries that weigh as much as these do will be susceptible to shock. Now---I like the ideas coming out of the industry for EV's. But one very huge issue that these EV inventor companies have just like all others {Not enough testing and evaluation before using the guinea pig consumer as the testing lab}. Too quick to reclaim the return on investment without proper testing. That was/is the issue with diesel emission equipment. Crap designed thrown at the consumer without real concern. Warranties filled with clauses and limitations and in some cases written off as operator error. One rule that's always applied never buy anything of high dollar amounts that is a new model or design. Waiting for at least the fifth year of production is the smart plan. A great place to test that T7X is Spud Monkey Acres-if anyone is going to run the **** out of it he will and give a honest opinion. Now Back To That D11 Electric Dozer.
It is able to run UP TO 4 hours on a charge. What that means is that when I am running hard and fast the battery lasts an hour. My laptop gets 9 hours on a single charge. Work it all day, says HP. Reality is 2 hours. And that is me on HEF when I am supposed to be on quickbooks, not running Call of Duty or something.
Thank you-I miss quoted.---At one hour it's even worse than I thought!
I don't have one, nor have I ever seen one, just reading tea leaves based on what Bobcat claims their machine will do ...
I didn't think you had.
Like I've said before, the mine I now work at since I quit trucking tried some electric underground trucks. They praised them at first underground.....until they had to come to surface in minus 20 to minus 40 winters. Then not so good. Then really not so good when water started getting into all the electronics. I had to go pick up a pickup at the Ford dealer this morning. I saw one of those new electric F150's sitting on the lot but I never went to look at it. It's not anything I am ever going to have to worry about. I should have asked them what the range would be today as it was minus 22*C
Water and electronics--If French pop singer Claude Francois was alive--I'm sure he would agree changing a light bulb while taking a shower is a bad idea.
On that note, wish I had the pics handy, my cousin spends his winters in Costa Rica and he took a motorcycle ride into Nicaragua and stayed at a motel.......and the shower head had the bathroom light incorporated into it!!! And the exposed electrical wiring going to it even had Marrette twist connectors on them!!! LOL
R.G. LeTourneau made electric everything 50+ years ago. And some of it still running. The problem with today's electronics is that they are too wimpy and weak.
Yes, the Electra Haul.
My 96 caravan has an annoying habit of dying if I turn left too hard, but anything newer, and even a lot of older cars and trucks have very reliable electrical systems, and running in salt slush 4 months of the year doesn't make it easy. The electric shower heads are common in places they don't worry about such things, but I've heard they're even used in UK and Europe! I bet they have a little better electric shower head standards though. Tesla electronics don't bother me, it's the electric scooters that cause all the fires. We'll see what happens when a chevy EV drives 40,000 miles in salt over many years and sits outside all the time, that's one I would NOT park inside, even a menards carport! The battery bobcat, or mini ex, they have a market and it doesn't matter the run time. They're competing with lead acid or plug in specialty equipment so not too hard to be competitive. Eventually the woke govt buyers will be a big market, I don't know if that's happened yet or not? Like Madison buying an electric fire truck, the last place you'd think you'd want to run out of juice, but it's actually a hybrid, has a cummins 6.7 and runs many calls a day on the battery. That makes it a little more attractive, in Madison.
And....it's 240 vac to ground !
I think the short duty cycle would work o.k. barn cleaning at a dairy farm. Twice a day, maybe 1 hour each time.
Uhm....they are up over 350 tons now....Just sayin' Look at Komatsu, Peoria works.
The battery forklifts my brother was designing/specing out run over 8 hours. I'll have to get with him to get an accurate number as it has been over a year since we talked about it. Irc they have two batteries in them that are 5k each.
Of course in Madison
LeTourneau machinery were all diesel powered. The only batteries were for starting the diesel engine.
Forklift batteries weigh about 500 lbs up to 4300 lbs. I own a couple to power my home and pole barn up. They are spec. out to 6 hours on AH ratings, but one can figure out their 20 AH ratings for which is industry standard. https://gbindustrialbattery.com/Forklift_Battery_Sizes_and_Specifications_Zone15.html
I know that, but if batteries and inverters were available at the time you bet they would have been used. I was just making the point that electronics do not need to be fragile and delicate.
Those are probably led acid I'm not talking about lead acid batteries.
A nice wheelbarrow works well, and look at the exercise one gets.
Lets not forget though....most of those big electric drive haul trucks are only that....electric traction motors with a big DIESEL powering them. The world is not there yet with battery power. Even John Deere stated that at a few farm shows. They had "electric" agricultural tractors on display that had no powertrains in them, LOL And they said outright.....we are not there yet for high h.p. applications.
But hey, I'll ride the electric dream. Get paid big bucks to mine battery minerals so I can keep driving my diesel powered stuff! LOL
Those Janus trucks have either a 500 kw electric motor or a 600 kw, so 570 or 800 HP. Any diesel over electric would probably have a electric motor hp around 80-95% of the diesel hp powering them.
Actually the electric motors are over rated, they offer much more power for braking.
What do you mean over rated?
They are rated for more horsepower than what the engine can provide.
One of the most informative videos of the Janus conversion that I've seen to date.
Yet it still takes Fossil Fuel to feed those batteries should all the trucks and cars get converted is the Elephant Achilles Heel. NO other power supply system is as viable and consistent enough to recharge all the battery replacement systems. A dozen, a hundred, novelty not so much, a Hundred THOUSAND and you cannot get enough power from Solar or Wind or combined to feed these. Simple Math and horrible for environment mining to achieve the batteries to begin with.
Latest out on damaged(Wrecked) EVs, due to insurance constraints and costs of repairs even a minor fender bender can get one of these totaled. First up ANY battery or Battery case damage, insurers will not even cover cost to investigate, next up, Soy and other plant based plastics, ability to repair is dismal at best, then cost to obtain ONLY new panels.
Do you have a place where I can review that information? It is something that I would need to know at times.
Minor EV Battery Damage In Accident? Insurance Company Will Total Car Are EV batteries cheap. Are they clean to produce? What happens after an EV battery is in a crash? We've got the answers and more. www.motorbiscuit.com Insurers Are Totaling EVs For Minor Battery Issues, And That's A Problem For Everyone | Carscoops Batteries cost a lot to replace, raising insurance premiums and damaging the environment www.carscoops.com EV batteries lack repairability leading some insurers to junk whole cars after even minor collisions
Thanks!
Ram has announced that they will be building an electric pickup that has a gas engine generator running a constant speed as a range extender. This should help for the people who want an actual pickup they can use every day. I know a family in our area that bought a Ford ev 150 for farm use and everyday driving. They complained right away to the dealer that the range was nowhere near the expected range. They took it on a trip to the nearest city 200km away and couldn’t make it home. They tried to return the truck to the dealer but were told that was not an option.
It makes perfect sense electromechanically to use a battery and a little generator. So long as the truck is used for short acceleration and long cruise. If you point it up the side of a mountain and leave it near the floorboards for half an hour like we do around here your results might be different.
...and you can pick up some of that energy on the way back down with regenerative braking.
I would be more comfortable with a hybrid than a full on ev. Hybrid tech has been around for a long time, and you really only use the electric on the highway
And have the ability should the battery get weak to at least get home.
Milwaukee Road had regenerative system, went broke in early 80's.
One side tells you, " you're destroying your kids future, no more internal combustion engines" The other side "EV is going to fail, stay away from it" If Canada and the United states stopped all oil consumption, it would hardly make a dent in emissions compared to the rest of the world. Develop the EV tech, and if people want it they can have it. Leave my gasser alone, and stop trying to tax me and my employer into a choice we should be free to make on our own.
The end of boomer pile era. I remember 1967 when the car with a *** end that looked like a pinched off turd came on the scene. Getting rid of it to make room for EV's. link. MSN
Well reality is settling in here among those that considered EV as the ONLY Climate Change Savior. Losing close to 10,000mw production here in two to three years max, No Nukes, No CTGs, nothing of sense, Solar and Wind Generation as well Screaming for MORE Hydro yet these are the same Morons said Save the Snail Darter and Stopped the Meramec River Hydro projects and whined to all the Top Gubmint types to STOP Taum Sauk Pumped Storage Rebuild. Cannot Have it both ways. Wind has been Maximized in NW MO as that is about the ONLY optimal location for these, are now losing generators weekly to Blading damage out of balance failures. Nearly everything including sunlight degrades the blades in less than 15 years with some degraded beyond use in 10 and the Dump sites are filling fast. Generation there peaked at just over 2000mw around two years ago, is down to 135x with only right at 300 in the pipeline. Obsolescence is also sneaking in under the cloak of ignorance where nearly all in service today are already obsolete for repair or rebuild parts. Speed on a Wind System repair is Utmost Importance. Will not ever replace retired Coal Stations with strictly Wind and Solar. EVs here are expensive to buy, maintain and recharge, good luck to those relying on them.
There's a wind farm close by, had a crane out to repair and around 10 semi trailers, I wonder what hauled those trailers there?
If you ever attempted to sit in the rear part of that colon, you'd say they were about 50 years late in getting rid of it.
Haters are going to hate
Just bought my daughter an EV push mower. Report coming soon...............
I have half of the Ryobi 40v line up and would love a li ion version of their electric zero turn.
I bought a Stihl battery lawnmower last fall. I will buy an electric power head for my garden equipment when the current power head dies. They share the same battery platform. My shop battery tools are Milwaukee and they did not have a lawn mower when I bought the Stihl. Only used it a couple of times last fall. Just waiting for the grass to grow long enough to try it out. Cam
Oregon seems to want to put the cart before the horse. May be some good deals on big equipment soon.
Oregon is almost as dumb as California and Washington isn't far behind.
Suspicion is the legislators enjoy eating yet.
He could have started a early day rock band called -Edison and the EV's.
Or started Edizon
You guys have short memories. The Detroit Electric Model D was at the forefront of noiseless, fumeless transport in 1910. And no starting hassles, either. The Anderson company built 13,000 electric cars between 1907 and 1939. They might have become a real force in transport if they had had access to funding for EV development. And then there was this .... in 1943.
I wasn't around yet when you rewound the electric motor on Noah's schooner.
I always knew he was a cheater.
Well . . . looks like the dreams and pixie dust came up a little short . . . MSN
NY is not the only state, several others just being quiet about it.
New improved lithium batteries with better cold-weathe abilities will soon increase EV performance. It took about 40 years for IC engines to go from pop-popping, leaking, hard-starting, low performance P'sOS, to a reasonable level of performance. It will take another 20 years before battery power can offer real competition, based on both price and performance, but it will happen. Battery-powered hand tools are taking over from grid-power tools, and even small garden equipment is going the same way. SWMBO has a little electric mower, she just loves it - although we don't have 2 acres of lawn to mow. Best part is, I get relieved of the lawn-mowing duty! No gas to have to run down to the gas station to get, no cranky hard-starting mower engine with its own electrical problems, no smoke, no smell, just have to remember to charge the battery.
Grid power fails, no recharges, cannot even get gas to run a genny to recharge the batteries. Is not the base battery that is a problem with cold charging is ALL batteries slow to charge cold and been that way forever. EVs have a good chance in the High pollution issue big metros with all the major highways, open roads are their downfall as while can get Some regenerative braking will not recharge and requires a high value electrical connection or generator to feed these. Sure the Ev trucks can pull like mad Uphill and regen brake Down but still require a Long Duration top charge and that is where the fun is, as battery comes up on charge the cells resist taking that charge so more energy required to force feed them. No One is talking of realistic Battery system lives, sure a Tesla is seen going five or six years, yet how much to re-battery at eight or ten, how much other equipment is at fail point, or are these a trade in for pennies and deal with the cost prohibitive newer models? More Throw away grief.
Enough with the facts and logic, Sir. We are going to haul freight with dreams and fairy dust yet, you just wait . . .
Yep, like there isn't any problem acquiring gas in an emergency ..... Google Search
Look up Edison motors on you tube, he's made a diesel over electric logging truck that's built on the merits of electric motors and battery and not because of emissions or regulations and it's pretty epic. If they made a light weight semi (like current semis) it would definitely change trucking for the better.
Back in 05' when hurricane Ike hit, me and the ex wife evacuated, well her mom stayed behind due to essential worker for hospital until last second. She made it out with just clothes on her back and being the good son in law I drove from Dallas TX to Orange TX to get her stuff. The route I originally was going to take had way too much debris, so meander here and there through back roads around road blocks was sure taking a lot more fuel than my 40 mpg car could hold. Got down there, got the stuff started back on same tank of gas and the route I were to take back road blocks started appearing. Knowing I wouldn't make it had to siphon fuel out of vehicle that went under water, all gas stations and gensets to back them up down. I made it back, but that was close. Power never came back on for about 3 weeks down there in some places or longer.
That's been in progress for awhile now. * The real art of pushing new systems/ideas is being able to stand to the side lift the rug and sweep with out anyone noticing.
That electric truck is just GReat !!! Really refreshing to see logic and common parts used to create something useful.
Hybrid as above is a far better choice as I see it
I can't wait to do a pulling unit like that, electric motor power doesn't even compare.
The newest and greatest as to electrical motor service is Variable Frequency Drive. Crane in the Plant Fuel building was showing its age where needed a better speed control for handling the Spent Fuel dry cask storage units, the end result was a high torque variable speed drive that did not adjust in steps as the old systems did. Was a very smooth transition from initial brake release into movement then to speed but did require a great deal of electronics cabinetry and components. Was amazing how slow could functionally operate with loads the engineers that constructed the facility never intended the hoists to handle more than during construction.
The new Ram "Ramcharger" 1500 has been released. A V6 pentastar as a generator engine with 150 mile range on just battery. Personally, I see a lot more buyers for that as a option, than a strictly battery model. It would work for me. In a way that a battery only vehicle wouldn't . And also personally, I think having a truck named the "Ram Ramcharger" is pretty stupid. Not as stupid as ford naming their battery only mini crossover SUV a "mustang", but whatever. Its like they have a room full of idiots and everything is decided by committee and no one is there to say "this is stupid". 2025 Ram 1500 Ramcharger Smashes EV Range With 690 Miles, V6 Range Extender The Ramcharger name's back in an electric full-size pickup with a V6 range extender feeding batteries for front and rear electric motors. www.thedrive.com
The irony of the whole lot, all of these were some of the worst gas guzzlers ever built. Dodge in those years didn't/couldn't build anything that got over 10 mpg, with a interior designed by "Tommy". I guess they could have revived the buried Trail Duster by Plymouth name. Funny the ramcharger sold but the trailduster didn't. Anywho those were junk-yeah need a better name. * Trailduster below.
With a Hybrid, less likely to be hung out to dry awaiting the line to get a functional charging station. Could be a difference between living and dying.
I'm not sure hybrid is the best name as hybrid typically has the gas engine hooked to the drive train, and the proper application for efficiency would be electric drive only, gas over electric or diesel over electric. It's a excellent setup as the battery takes the peak HP load so you can run a much smaller engine, probably the gas engine needs about half the hp of the electric motors, and you probably need a 1/5th of the weight of the batteries. The gas engine only runs at 1800 rpm and is at peak efficiency for the engine. In the diesel version you put diesel heaters for the batteries do you don't lose any range in the cold. Heating with diesel to gain winter efficiency is very efficient energy use. I think automotive applications are DC, while a frequency drive is ac.
Prius and Leaf engines only run under High Demand or if battery low, run generators that feed the motors and batteries, true Hybrids
I looked up definition of hybrid and it just said two or more types of power, so it fits multiple types of systems.
That Edison truck only has one kind of drive (power) system and a way to charge the batteries so it's not hybrid any more than a train locomotive is Kind of splitting hairs but the line needs to be drawn !
I would agree, I would say having the gas engine connected to the drive train makes a hybrid, but w/e
From my perspective in power generation, wires are just as good a connection as a drive shaft, anything with batteries plus an engine is an actual hybrid. I have been following Edison and it looks good from my perspective, I think it is the real deal and will work if they can find buyers and are not somehow crushed by the bigs.
Hybrid/hybread-in our house the bread is kept on top of refrigerator-hybread-random. * Funny I started this thread---anymore I couldn't give a **** what happens. Never effect me.
650 HP electric motor also means 650 HP brakes, you could never change brakes again truck shop
Read up on dynamic braking, is fine at high rpm, does not so good except make heat at low.
Braking---I personally would like everyone who has a drivers license/CDL to experience the ******* quivering bladder emptying fun of having the low air buzzer/light or wig-wag fall in front of your eyes with 4 miles left of 7% grade that is 7 miles long. Don't even need a super he-man load, just 80,000 lbs. That's where a Lytx dash cam comes in to photo the horror and panic setting in that will happen with anyone who has a CDL that could would experience that wonderful feeling of being out of control. I know on this forum/HEF it cause allot of rethinking about previous posts by members. * Late 70's Bendix came out with ABS for air brakes-the lawsuits that ensued. That system would automatically keep backing the brakes off exhausting then reapplying all while driver was holding a steady 10 psi, depleting the air tanks and causing brakes to heat because of rapid on/off application. End result is a truck out of control with hot brakes. * Had that happen with a 79 352 Pete on highway 58 Chemalt Flats to Springfield, called Oakridge Pass. When I got home the side cutters came out and all ABS was clipped short and round filed. * Now as far as dynamic braking-I've seen that in action with the Milwaukee Road. As far as it coming into play on highway rigs never. Would not be useable in icy conditions.
Had my days of hard sweats running Cabbage and the Three Sisters dragging a 45’ flatbed of steel products or cable reels with Wedge Brakes. 8V92 with jakes was absolutely NO aid. Eagle Division had a dozen of those PITA set ups but at least kept them maintained. Did not ever care of the early ABS garbage either.
It was totally abandoned/discontinued by Bendix.
Why would on/off cycles of brake applications produce more heat to the system than constant on pressure? If the load is being kept retarded at the same speed surely the total heat inputs would be the same?
I just ran into a 4 way stop today driving a new to me rig. Only had one dual doing the braking and when you got slowed down it would fade or something.
Friction going to develop heat, Slower Speed as start off a grade with a known heavy load, use brakes to slow well proportionately below the desired max speed come off brakes to allow air to cool. Reapply braking effort to keep speed down. Know a good many drivers got in trouble as passed that max speed point and became nearly impossible to get slowed back down. Jakes help, hyd retarders help, all get hot, electric retarders can only charge a battery so far. Rail Dynamics feed a resistive load to dissipate heat off the machines. Well maintained brakes and well adjusted all that is left for safety is using common sense.
Oxygen entering, and this is one of those I'm not going to have a discussion over with people who don't/didn't spend years behind the wheel. Too many of those in past.
Have been thinking the same Over Engineering marvel Engineer or possibly a Child prodigy of that person that designed the immensely OVER Complicated and failure prone Wedge system designed the current Air Disc setups.
Air disc is another example of industry/corporations unnecessary involvement in reinventing the wheel. The whole idea wasn't about safety it was about making tons of cash, knowing once the public bit, it was only a matter of setting the hook. It costs three times as much to replace air disc components as it does drum. * The good side I see to it is watching people in business waste their money because they let someone talk them into bad decisions-didn't know when to stop thinking with their ego.
I got a work truck again and you can tell the guy who modified it never drove on a county road before. Aftermarket intake, lift kit, 35's that stick out past the fender. I asked him if we could take off the lift kit and put factory tires on. 20 years of driving in the bush I've never needed that crap on a super duty
I had a good laugh over this
Rivians are already on the road.
It looked likr a repost since Edison has a prototype out
Yep have seen one or tow around this area, guessing they are owned by a couple of the rich people down in the village who thin nothing of paying a couple million for a house. Kind of common to see Teslas, actually saw two in my five mile drive home from dentist.
Every where in Seattle.
Two way firing range is adequate for that feeling as I think I would yawn and look for a place to put the rig in the ditch, runaway ramp or take it through the woods.
I went down a short steep hill last winter with snow on the ground. Locked up the tires and there was a turn at the bottom so I steered into the ditch which was full of huge rocks. It was so rough I broke the tilt steering on the truck but nothing else. Was even better there was a easier shallower way to go I got informed right after that
Same here in the lower mainland of BC, there’s at least a dozen just in the our neighborhood
Surprisingly are six here in Hermann. All belong to Two wealthier families where had a Tesla Club decide to make a weekend here, was hysterically funny as every evening they would end up lined up on Gutenberg street to recharge at a Diesel Electric Genny set the City has for a backup to special events as the city power system is NOT set up to install charging stations. The two families have their own stations just for their cars. Witnessed both being constructed as hauled the base rock to them. Each has their own metering and dedicated line/transformer can only handle Two Cars. Terry Hammer was complaining costs more to recharge than his Corvette to fill up. Vette was referenced at $45/mo, the Tesla his wife drives a few days a week at $105/mo. He is smart enough to do the math as owns seven b&bs a Inn and Spa and a Wedding Reception major attendance party Venues.
The fella that taught me to drive, in a 1970 Pete with a 318 that had Jake's, told me that while descending a grade stay at a speed that the engine can maintain without the use of brakes, because if the Jakes quit you have exactly one chance to get that truck slowed down using the brakes. This pertained to long grades, and we were hauling heavy equipment, but on highways this advice has never failed me. What astounds me is that trainers were teaching new drivers to use the "stab" method as the proper way to descend a long grade, when it seems to me that they should have been teaching to use as little brake as necessary to get your speed down to a point where you don't need the brakes to hold your speed. That may require downshifting on a grade, and I'm sure they don't teach to use the left foot on the brake to maintain speed and mitigate the need to rush a shift and risk failing to complete the shift. Of course the only time this is necessary is when one starts off the top in too high of gear to begin with. And I am referring to long grades. I'm old and equipment is much better now, but watching guys roll past you off the top of Cabbage with their brake lights on has always been unsettling. I have to keep in mind though that some newer trucks have the brake lights come on with the Jakes, so they may not be using the brakes. To your point, I have never seen it work out well to get on the brakes and slow the truck down 5 miles per hour and then release the brakes and gain back that speed only to have to use more brake to slow back down. As with most things it's a matter of degree. If it takes a mile before one has to use the brakes a bit to check speed that's one thing. If it takes a thousand feet that's another.
All I know is as trainer that taught me just as noted I have not ever smoked a brake or had a runaway, even on 15” trailer wedge brakes.
A little off-topic but not that far. Years back at one of the companies quarries not far from here where the 65 ton Mack haul trucks were loaded on one side of a narrow valley then made a hard left turn to cross town road then back up the other side. Those Macks had Allison DP8000 transmissions with hydraulic retarders. Even fully loaded the transmission would have no problem keeping the trucks to a slow crawl down the hill. Well this day there were several guys working on the new ditch at the bottom of the ramp next to the left turn on the haul road. They were used to the haul trucks coming down that grade and never thought much about it. This day was different as apparently they heard the next truck sounded different and they scattered just in time for that big Mack to plow straight into the ditch instead of turning left! Truck flipped end over and load of 65+ tons of shot rock landed were they had been working. What had happened was one of the hoses (Aeroquip 1503-32 as I recall) that went from the retarder to the oil cooler had failed just as truck left the quarry face. Loader operator saw the oil on the road but could not catch the truck to stop him. Not sure if they had two-way radios in machines at that time. So loader operator had a front row seat view for what happened next. Long story a little shorter, seat belt use was enforced and other than some minor bruising and such driver was not badly hurt. Recall hearing after being checked out he and loader operator hit a local watering hole for some "medicine". Truck was brought to the shop where I worked and after some major repairs mainly to axles and motor mounts and such was put back in service. Worse thing is while we were working on fixing the truck every so often one of the other truck would have a breakdown so they would come steal parts from us so some things had to be rebuilt more than once!
I was always taught when driving a loaded truck to use the same gear going down a hill as you used coming up - and use the brakes only lightly and intermittently. That system hasn't failed me yet. Here we have a low range of hills just inland from a coastal plain where much of the development lies. Anywhere you come down the highway over that range of hills you find the following signage - firstly a warning of a steep grade (it's a maximum of 7%) and to use low gear - then a truck bay at the start of the descent, where it's obligatory to pull up and check out your truck before descending the grade. Going down the hill, if you're driving a rig with a 22.5 tonne GCM or more (that's practically any heavy single-drive truck), the speed limit for you is 40kmh (25mph). Seen a few drivers doing more than that, though. We've had a couple of serious runaways, one being a double road train loaded with 65 tonnes of grain (143,260lbs). The truck was reported to have reached around 200kmh before it rolled at an intersection at the bottom of the grade. A couple of innocent people died, the truck driver survived. It turned out he had little truck driving experience, even less on hills, and the brakes on one trailer were hooked up incorrectly, making them useless. Since that episode, the authorities built an arrestor bed for runaways, halfway down the hill. It's filled with deep pea gravel, and it stops runaway trucks in about 50-60 metres! I don't know what this idiot did to have his truck runaway backwards down the hill! - but I reckon he must be one of the luckiest drivers around to have not got run over! HEART-STOPPING moment truckie loses control on Perth hill WATCH: Dramatic dashcam vision has been captured of a driver losing control of his truck on a Perth hill. www.perthnow.com.au
Yeah-it's nothing more than a big yawn ain't it all in a days work.
Just another day.
Although there is no way to describe doing 62 down the highway with a COE Frtlnr on the hook, and having that ever endearing Wig Wag drop down in front of your face. 56 DiamondT black diamond gas six, belt drive compressor that would take conspicuously odd or seriously evil moments to throw the belt. First clue, the Wig Wag.
All is needed is the right amount of moisture after wet tank to main at check valve. It will show 100 psi-and wig wag or light will still come on because the primary tank is only 60 and less, at 20* it will freeze the valve.
Hertz dumps EV's
Brother in Law retired from Metro here. All their EV buses are semi permanently parked in Cummins Yard. Cannot keep battery cooling systems functional.
Gosh--you guys are so negative. In 1966 Hertz made a stupendous move to lure young BOOMERS. They bought 1966 Shelby GT 350 Stangs to rent to the public, that was a PR nightmare. The honest young boomers rented them for Saturdays at the local drag strips across the nation. Beat the **** out of'em brought them back all lathered up. Or they took them home and did a little R & R--ripped the 271 horse 289 and bolted a stock 289 in it's place, just dropped off the keys because no one checked. * People are just so honest! and getting more so each day.
Remembered that and the HO 5 liters Those in the mid to late 80s being abused to insanity
I should of jumped on the bandwagon of renting a EV, yank the battery and put a worn out one in it. Be the same as pulling that 289 out and putting in a stock engine
That's already happened, several times.
Too much work, I'm too lazy to do anything like that.
here is a runaway ramp (arrestor bed) you might appreciate. Dropping down the Teton Pass into Jackson Wyoming from the west, the ravine is on your right and the high bank is on your left. You have to go through the oncoming traffic to use the ramp, and the shoulder is not that wide there for you to get over early. I saw that on the way up the hill, and never forgot that one.
Well, there's one major advantage of driving on the left, right there! No cutting across oncoming traffic when you want to take that ramp at 100mph!
That's also 10% IIRC.
The new one that they put on the bottom of that hill is a cable restraint system on the right side. It might save your (and others) life, but there wont be much left of the truck.
Yes it is. Years ago they were installing a new transmission line over Teton Pass. The utility contractor hired us to move a D8 from a spur road about half way up the east side to the top. The weight limit is 60,000 over the pass. We were required to have a Wyoming patrolman escort us.
I knew I had a picture of the cable restraint escape ramp. You can't see it very well, but you get the idea. This was in 2018 shortly after they got it open.
That looks pretty mean, but better than death
I want to see all battery usage stopped , that includes 20V power tools, get a life do it the old way, everyone keeps bringing up {old school}, great plug it in. No picking and choosing.
I think what is angering everyone is not the fact we are going EV, the fact any personal choice in the matter is taken away and forced upon us. They are sticking to their ways saying 2030 is the deadline in most states and we don't have viable way to replace what you do with current vehicle nor do we care how you will have to pay for that EV shoved down your throat. Another thing is angering folks is part of them is paid with tax payer dollars, never got that with a horse drawn cart or ICE vehicle which thus is driving prices up on them. Sure $40k for a EV, wait the gov is giving $7500 tax credits, lets call it even and say $50k for the EV then, I'm there is some state incentive too. Guess what also no one is saying, all those people who are getting electricity subsidies cause they only make so much and can't afford their electric bill, well I get they now will get free fuel to drive wherever while everyone pays full price and if they really thought it through sell off their power to make extra buck like folks sell food stamps.
Oh I'm talking magneto's and pony motors. *
Been there, done that. Sucks, too. Yea, doc needs more work. I'd guess a broken starter motor in that rig costs 5 digits.
That's good, people need to learn how to do a real tune-up and use a hand crank. Life has gotten a little too easy.
Here's an interesting thought I had the other day: They use salt and in some areas that liquid de-icer on the roads here. Now vehicles are expensive and I like to keep mine for at least a couple hundred thousand kilometers so I give them a very thorough wash regularly in winter. I'm talking up on ramps/stands, laying under it with the steam wand and garden hose thorough. Literally flush out the insides of the frame rails, every accessible square inch that I can get water to. How well will EV's tolerate a proper wash job like that even just once a year? Are they weatherproofed enough that it won't short out a module or battery and burn the whole neighbourhood down?
95% of EV’s are on the road, the rest made it home !
When I was in High school a friend had a 1972 series 3 Land Rover. The crank for the jack could also be used to start the engine. The Lucas starter failed on it and well waiting for a new one the crank handle came in handy. I took it to the metal shop and cut and lengthened it for more leverage.
Lucas, Ughh!!!
Lucas, the Prince of Darkness! Anytime you have Lucas Electrical systems you need to carry a jar of smoke with you - because when a Lucas wiring harness releases all of its smoke, it ceases all electrical transmission, and you need to replace all the lost smoke to get it to produce electrical current again! Lucas is the only company that produces replacement wiring harness smoke.
Here is an interesting answer....If you got a flow rate 11.4 litres/minute is 189.25cm³/second with orifice size of .132cm (the red tip at 0°) and divide the flow rate by the orifice size squared to gets of cm/sec and convert to kilometres per a hour answer would be 391 km/h of how fast that water is coming out, so since a vehicle doesn't travel that fast, then why should the water be sprayed on such high pressure near sensitive components. You wouldn't spray the engine bay of your car with same sensitive components, yet you can clean it without such pressure, same care should be spraying the belly of these vehicles.
It's even easier than that--the wand at a car wash will push water past the wheel bearing seals on a MC. A 1500 psi pressure washer will fill water proof connections, blast water under a distributor cap and so on.
I hate that red tip. Yellow all the way. I use a short wand, the extension pipe off the wand is like 6-8" long so I don't get to close. I must be doing something right because I've never had an issue washing anything like that.
Ecu mounted on engines come to mind
So when all these ev’s are 8 years old and up for sale are they going to allow for battery depreciation on the sale? I see the 4 year old ones don’t allow any price break for the fact that the battery is at half life so if you buy it and keep it 4 years you may get stuck with a $20,000 battery replacement bill.
8 years old, its scrap. Battery replacment will be as much as a new car. GM has the price on Volt batteries jacked so high people buy a new car. Ed
That's my take on current design EV's - they must have zero resale after a few years, because the cost of that battery replacement is huge. I reckon I won't be buying any EV until I can get one with a swappable battery. The swappable battery makes a whole lot more sense to me - especially when you have a choice in battery sizes, and can select the particular size battery you want for what you're doing. If you're only tooling around town, or SWMBO is only doing shopping or taking the kids to school, you only pay for a small battery. You want to do a trip to 2 States away, you get the biggest battery available in the swap system, then exchange it for the small battery when you get back.
At eight years or four more than today with demand increase that will be $30k not $20
Oz look at janus, they are down there with a hot swappable heavy truck, and you lease the batteries and only pay for the electricity used.
Yes, I know about Janus, but they're still experimental. However, Nio in China is going full-on with the battery-swap technology, they have already installed around 2,400 EV battery swap stations in China, and most Chinese taxis are battery-swap Nios, so they can run 24/7/365 without the need for charge downtime. Battery swap technology means the EV is instantly much cheaper, because you purchase it with no battery. You pay a modest fee per month for battery rent, and then you never have any fear of a $20K battery replacement bill. No-one owns their own BBQ gas bottles any more, with the need to have them re-certified after 10 years at huge cost - swappable BBQ gas bottles are the only way to go today.
In the rural US, I can't see battery swapping work. Lots of suburbs it could work, but it's against the freedom feeling that sells cars here. And for used cars it would be prohibitively expensive as far as I can tell. So far EV resale is doing fine, I'd buy one myself if they get cheap enough. I don't need 300 miles range, or 0-60 in under ten seconds, or fast charging. Something that goes ten miles reliably cheaper than the alternatives, and I'm in.
One of the neighbors told me about his new neighbor, feller bought the property next to his decided to drive out from the city for a couple days. Guy drives battery powered F-150 and after driving around for a while after dark looking for deer his battery was pretty low so he plugged the truck in. We had a pretty significant wind storm that night 60-70 mph gusts knocked the power out for 2 days and the batteries did not charge. Turns out they had no supplies at the cabin, figured they would drive into town the next morning, oops. New guy visited neighbor the next day asked for some supplies that he would readily replace upon power-up. Good neighbor goes to freezer gets some venison, frozen veggies, and some pasta from the cupboard and hands the bag to new guy who has this dumbass look on his face, turns out the stove in the cabin is also electric, oops. Good neighbor did some cooking on his horrible gas appliance so new guy and his kid didn't starve. New guy was out next weekend in the wife's subaru gasser with a care package that included some grub, some wine and a box of beer. Pays to be neighborly.
Here is an example of why not to buy an EV. Vancouver EV owner shares cautionary tale after car deemed ‘total loss’ https:// vancouver.citynews.ca/2023/12/11/hyundai-ev-battery-icbc-cost/
That's a good story in any thread. It's like when my neighbors well went out and I strung out all the garden hose I could and rigged it up so she could at least flush a toilet and take care of business until the well man came out.
I don't know how propane is here but you can buy your own bottle and when the valve goes bad or it needs to be recertified swap it. So far we just need a good valve and good ring on bottom so it stands up by itself.
Our LPG supplier has to follow hydro exam codes so some bottles just disappear.
You wouldn't be the first guy to break out the stamps and add a new date.
Re running out of electricity, don't forget that when the power goes out in a big storm, you can't pump gas, either. I've never been 100% reliant on supplied electricity, we have an electric stove, but a portable gas stove backup. And my Kubota diesel genset is never too far away. Our shower is gas, I reckon getting clean and warm is a good start, before you go looking for a way to acquire and cook your food. We just had a huge storm take out a large amount of the rural electricity supplies over inland Western Australia for several days, and a lot of people had to become self-reliant. Genset sales went through the roof, every dealer ran out of gensets to sell.
Biggest problem we have if the power goes out is no water(well). Fine if it is warm out, we have water barrels. In the cold, they are empty. We keep a 5 gal drinking water jug for emergencies and fill all the water bottles each evening. That and some ground coffee and we are golden. We also fill some buckets if there is a wind storm predicted for flushing. Cam
20+ years ago we had a bad ice storm...... Large generators weren't common, bottled water wasn't around either. My friend Jim had a 5hp genny, 110v only. Wouldn't power the well. He told the family, "If you flush a toilet, I'll break your arm", thats my coffee water in those toilet tanks! Lol, Jim drank coffee dawn til bedtime. Ed
We have a 10 kw diesel ex-military generator and 300 gal of fuel. No problem with water, cooking (propane), ice or heat, a/c. Good for about 2 months before we need to refuel.
I'm sure there are stores with generators. I have a well and it's 220 so I have a 220 generator for it. I could also pull the pump and use a soup can and a string.
Our well at the house is 200' deep, the artesian at the barn could supply if want to walk 1/4mile to it for 5gpm .
Wood burner and gas furnace, propane fixtures for emergency light if necessary. Creek runs through front yard for crapper flushing and spring water to house ,over flow from spring box percolates out of the side of hill constantly for drinking water in an emergency. For extended outages have 4 generators to power entire property including tenant house because his generator will probably not run or his gas will be contaminated for certain. Then there is always kerosene heaters and coleman lanterns as back-up for the back-up. Always have ample supply of both fuels on hand to supply machines and other crap "just in case". Not a prepper just a packrat, got lots of "stuff" but generally don't worry about outages.
Suzanne Downing, our local news purveyor, did a recent piece, interviewing local recovery providers about EVs.
I'm a prepper--I bought a small chain saw--first the trees will go, then the fence, then the shed garage next the start sawing off corners of the house, any neighbaahs roaming around could end up on the spit. OMEGA MAN.
An egg with wheels.
Everything seems to be electric on them. I don't know if you can even open the doors if the battery is dead. When you pull the handle, the window drops a half inch because the seal is a channel it has to clear. I had to put car seats in my in-laws' for my kids and I had to lean the seats forward in the process. Even that has an electric doohickey for the latch.
That's a dumb design. Half the winter I'm ordering my Tim's through the door gap because the windows are froze shut.
Been seeing pictures of this. A jeep/ jodog, with a electric battery and drive motor. They are going to have charging areas like a truckstop fuel island where you just swap jeeps. The drive axle on the battery part is a steering axle also. But I don't know many drivers who are going to back that rig up. Revoy | Electric freight that actually works. We haul Pacific Northwest freight with our 95% electrified fleet. www.revoy.com Also, I've been reading about a company putting batteries and electric drive wheels in the trailer, rather than the truck. It regen brakes to charge battery. Watch how Range Energy turns a semi-truck electric just by adding a trailer Range Energy's RA-01 trailer adds EV tech to a standard class 8 trailer to enable hybrid operation without any change to the tractor. electrek.co
Would be curious as to expense, costs of unit by mile or use or contractual. Calc out to miles driven whether affects bottom line more than fuel or not and what as to liability for insurance? Your coverage or add on cost?
Costs? no one cares about that. there are so many super rich costs just don't matter. They are going to use that to jack their rates even more to keep your account empty and theirs full.
Tesla Semi Fire | I-80 closed for hours in Northern California as electric truck smolders Parts of Interstate 80 in Placer County have been closed for hours after a Tesla Semi caught fire east of Nyack early Monday, the California Highway Patrol said. Drivers are being kept off the interstate for at least half a mile in both directions because the Tesla electric vehicle's battery was... www.yahoo.com
It was only a matter of time.
Liability insurance going up x 10
Lithium batteries can only be for city cars, we need a fundamental change in battery tech
Traffic was backed up in town all day as we are the only alternate route to where this fire shut down the road from 4am until 7pm for the entirety of I-80. About half the time in they got the opposite direction open but the truck smoldered all afternoon.
I’m glad they kept the big trucks off 20 or there would have been even more wrecks.
Hmm, I wonder what Elon has to say about that.
When I pulled out onto it this morning there were 50% semis going both ways. It sounds like they stopped that at some point?
I think so. The news said they were holding WB trucks at the stateline but there might have been a bunch that got through before that.
Have to wonder about the pollution being put out by that truck fire. My science knowledge is not up to knowing what the output is from a Lithium battery melt down fire.
A great deal of nasty: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352152X24008739#:~:text=The%20main%20components%20of%20the,and%20C3H8.
Too many cookies.
Nikola--1899 Colorado Springs, in his backyard workshop. *
Nikola Tesla was quite unique to say the least.
Might as well do that to any vehicle dumped in saltwater, it's worth nothing afterwards anyways.
He died a penniless man, so sad. Edison and his buddies screwed him.Just finished a book about him very interesting fella
We all Die Penniless, cannot take it with you.
That's true but you can't prove that by the way greed has taken over rational thinking in 2024. People live like they are never going to die, take boomers for example--going to live forever so they thought, until investment companies drilled it into their heads boomers were getting old, creating some more greed along the way. * Truth is even though most of the great inventors before & after 1900 helped create what is had today, guys like Edison & Ford were nothing more than greedy crooks competing for their status level in the circle of other greedy crooks, and still idolized in the publics eye even today.
We can thank the business model of investing in the stock markets to grow your money for a lot of the problems we have.
Well the lights are still on for now......
King of the buttheads. *
This was a fun discussion. I’m gonna bump it. Oh’ no’s, how will I ever get my EV? To our valued customers, We would like to inform you that beginning June 29th, TOTE Maritime Alaska will begin a phased implementation to suspend the shipment of electric vehicles(EVs), plug in hybrids, and roll-on/roll-off (RO/RO) lithium-ion battery powered machinery indefinitely. The end. Changes to TOTE’s Electric Vehicle Shipping Policy Beginning June 29th, TOTE Maritime Alaska will begin a phased implementation to suspend the shipment of electric vehicles (EVs), plug in hybrids, and roll-on/roll-off (RO/RO) lithium-ion battery powered machinery indefinitely. www.totemaritime.com
Oh’ no! Matson, too.
Well they can put a plant in alaska and put people to work building they're cars. Jobs for people in the 48.
I think I saw a story of several ships being abandoned when an EV caught fire The whole ship
There was a streak of them catching fire, it was hard to keep track.
I stayed with my cousin who has a very fancy BMW X5 Plug in hybrid. I think it is the 50E, with 483 HP and 4.6 seconds 0-60. He is able to get from home to work in Seattle and almost back home on battery, almost 50 miles. His stats are 88.5% off the plug. All of his non-work driving it never starts the engine. As a gas rig the MPG is not good, it has a serious engine in it. I think it gets 19~23 when the engine is on after the battery is down. It makes him happy. He's always had a performance car for himself.
My brother got a Ford CMax plug in hybrid back in 2012-14 and it could do 25 miles on batteries, and he lived 14 miles from work that had a charging station. If he kept working there the gas would have probably went bad.
If it can burn a ship down not much chance in your garage.
I would expect insurance companies will raise your home insurance rates if you own an electric vehicle and park in on your property.
Ours noted NO Coverage if Buy a RV and sets fire to home/garage. Will NOT insure a EV of ANY type including Hybrids, suggested if buy one or thinking seriously of it, find a new insurer.
Our friends have a Tesla that they park and charge in the attached garage. He wanted to cut the gyproc in the garage roof to make more space for the tire rack. I advised lowering the rack but he is set on cutting the roof. You can only lead the horse to water……. I am surprised that his house insurance allows the Tesla in the garage. I wonder if it is in the fine print that he hasn’t read.
Pemco won't allow it, said so in a insurance update in the mail.
I've been watching this "kid" for several years. I like his attitude, I like his philosophy and I hope is is successful beyond all expectations. I'm also following his pickup version for a possible retro fit on my pickup when it's time has come.
He has good ideas, and his best ideas I think are kept to himself and the few directly around him. He is a independent thinker, playing his cards close to vest, not worrying about what others think in the industry. Staying away from high and mighty.
Best thing is Canada won't let him make a hybrid
The BC government has not been helpful in providing any assistance to him & his company, yet they invest in senseless crap. Our premier is a real AH.
It seems crazy to think that after nearly 100yrs diesel electric drives are still in proof of concept when RG has already proved the concept.
Well 50% of population is still living in 1920 mindset.
Ouch, you hit that one right on target.
Diesel electric are not in proof of concept, diesel electric hybrid are. Small diesel engine 9L Smallish battery pack for peak loads High power Drives The batteries take over peak load for more HP than the diesel engine can give while a diesel electric can only have less HP than the diesel engine.
Oh’ no. The three people that drive their Tesla’s to the Kenai won’t be able to top them off before going over the pass. Cooper Landing EV charging station fire leaves a mess, but no one injured - Alaska Story An electric vehicle charging station at Cooper Landing caught fire on Wednesday, bringing in reinforcements from as far away as Anchorage. thealaskastory.com
Is that a fossil fueled generator behind the charging station?
Ironic, isn’t it?
Irony is synonym of EV!!
The fence hides it, so it doesn't count.
Don't worry,it uses more gasoline this way then just having an ice engine
That was my first thought when I saw the picture!
Remote area, you really think a power line is going to be designated for EV? 30 years from now bicycles will come with training wheels again only those will be used as drop axles for carrying heavy loads as in India. Won't need a CDL or Med card, no weight limits.
This is my favorite charging station. This one is in front of the Totem Lodge in Healy along the Park’s Hwy. Next to Usibelli Coal Mine.
I like the ones--Powered by Grand Coulee.
List of dam output--note the biggest and baddest are here in the PNW. * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_hydroelectric_power_stations_in_the_United_States
An over the road locomotive!
So a good buy would be a old D Pull or 111A Wabco with blown transmission, 471 Detroit and set it up as a charging station. Mr Le Tourneau you truly were a genius.
Would require different electronics, as Mr. LeTourneau liked 120hz power.
You got me on a old quote,I updated my idea to be more like Edison's build with batteries. Diesel power from a 12v
Right about now EV owners are liking their electric piles.
Are there inverters and such that could change it to what is required? I thought the sight of a light green engine would turn the EV drivers on.
I see Nissan is abandoning their EV dreams and will now build XTeras and pickups at the Canton Mississippi plant.
Still building globally, just not in the U.S., instead shifting to hybrids. Most all are doing the same including U.S automakers. But EV sales are still tracking elsewhere. Car sales of all types are lacking, many just can't afford a new vehicle.
I Won't, not so much can't.
At your age, you shouldn't need to.
I've heard of a new company making a city car type ev, it's a size of S10 pickup for 25k and can go a couple hundred miles. Should be pretty nice for a new vehicle and then rent a car if you take a trip
No interest in EVs here. Insurer will NOT Cover one, will can el house policy if store in House Garage.
We have the technology for city car EVS right now and hybrids for a long distance heavy duty use. These are way better options for every application except for complexity then we have now. Barriers like stigma and insurance will fall eventually. Currently we are out of plateau for battery technology, when there is a fundamental change in battery technology hybrids will go away and we will have EVS for long distance and heavy duty use.
I'm buying a electric bicycle---
Watched a you man on an electric scooter zipping up Fraser Hwy this morning, through a construction zone, merged into the lane with vehicles and back into the bike lane. No PPE, headphones on, and he was gone 2 miles up the road. We were doing about 40 to 45 mph.
Electric bikes are becoming a problem. A lot of e-bike riders have no respect for the rules of the road. The other day I was approaching a busy four way stop intersection when an e-bike rider passed me on the right going as fast as that bike would go flew through the intersection without stopping. No helmet or protective gear at all. I see them riding on the sidewalks at high speed all the time. In Canada electric bikes have to be governed at 32 kilometres per hour. I suspect that is easy to defeat.
It's the same here and everywhere with EV, but most bicyclist don't/haven't followed rules for years. Now the in thing is not paying license tabs in this state.
I've seen a bunch of videos of e bikes like that and then they get hit with cars thinking it's the cats fault. It's a cyclist mentality with a motorcycle really. The law is something like 750+ watts needs a license, I'm sure a bunch of people are disregarding thet
Correction---to post 700, many in this state are not buying license tabs for vehicles.
TS what is a license tab?
In MO we get a Renewal Sticker to place on existing Plates, many here call them Tabs. A great deal Here as in close to 15% do not renew or actually buy their Plates to even get new tabs. Several been caught with THREE Year old Temp Drive away PAPER plates in Plastic Sleeves from the dealer they bought new or used car from. No Insurance either. As to Bikes, we have KATY trail near here, Bicycles NOT supposed to utilize County Roads with No Shoulders, do it ALL the time and block traffic, get pissy if pass them on the double yellow even as moving less than walking pace. And on the River Bridges do NOT read well where Pedestrian Walkways Bikes are to be WALKED across same as sidewalks in town they pay no more attention to than stop signage. Are DOZENS of Bike repair and rental shops, have the State Authorized Handbooks of Rider Ethical behaviors and Instructions, many that are handed them toss to the trash. May be time to License ALL of them and require passing tests. Hatefully Kids are Better at behaviors than people MY Age.
Bike lanes all over this town on major thoroughfares, have several races each year. Bicycles are everywhere on county roads with no shoulder, one was hit hear a few years back and the old guy driving was charged.
Here the State Rules Rule, Come around a corner and Bikes in path where cannot stop in time, the Bikes are in Deep DooDoo. Hills Hollers and Creek Crossings on curves following old wagon paths, Bikes are NOT truly Welcomed. Again they get a Rules Handbook just fail to read it. Made my FAVORITE Quick Dinner, Ballpark All Beef, likely Tongue and Udder, Franks with mac and Cheese. Had Macadamia nut White Chocolate cookies on sale so wife gets sweet tooth appeased.
Here it's City/County, can't ride motor powered anything in a bike lane.
Windrose working on a longer range trucks that could be 2 years or so away. Windrose Mega E960 BEV truck 960km/ 600 mile range single charge loaded. 940kWh battery. 970 volts. 108K lbs, 49tonnes. Windrose Electric — Most Global Electric Truck in the world 700 km of range · 24 countries · 5 continents · 0 emissions. Long-haul electric trucks engineered for commercial freight. Built for every road on earth. www.windrose.ai
Need to isolate a Better energy source battery, weight and dimensions are killing these as to productive haul capacity. Lb for lb liquid fuels and engines still outperform as to capacity due to excessive weight and dimensions for the battery packs for electric motors that yes are dimensionally easier as to install and function. Then is a Safety factor as to seating ones self upon a nearly 1000v device, arc Flash is a lightning bolt with travel range in Feet not Inches to all Voltage above 300 even in DC.
@DMiller I've felt the same way ever since I first heard about the Volvo VNR coming out. Even when they later added the extra-extend battery option it stil comes up to only 275 miles claimed or that it takes well over a hour to partially recharge. Meanwhile a simple medium truck (with venerable Cummins 6.7L engine, therefore not too underpowered nor too big-power hungry either) and just two small fuel canisters still can easily cover 300+ miles nonstop and still going without having to think about it. Even then yard shunters/goats and local delivery cubetrucks are the perfect 'short-range therefore small battery can do' place to electrify for sure on the other hand. I mean can you imagine a VNR having to take a forced 1.5 hour break mid-route and this being on a trip thats supposed to only take four hours [for a no-stopping diesel truck] between a distributor and the next city over?!
Already patented as, electric chair. True, plus fans of racing will never grasp electric powered race vehicles, simply because those won't rumble, no exhaust noise.
Yes, heaven forbid anyone have to wait for anything, something ordered the day before 3,000 miles away like a D11 should arrive next day air/hauled to any location completely assembled.
Our vaca to SD first fuel stop at 700 miles, stopped for other points, eat, restroom, stretch, inspect. Newer equipment supposed to be so much more fuel efficient and battery power doing 1/2 -3/5 distance to recharge. Not good enough yet.
Well technically it's kind of a stretch to compare the two, battery size/storage is kind baked in. Liquid--just add larger tanks, heck get a fuel transport at 5,200 gallons and tow a travel trailer. Hazmat rv parks ought to go over real well.
600 mile range should get you There and Back Again
Dollars will be the determining factor in all transportation power sources. So far we haven't seen a liquid fuel shortage but when it happens it will completely change the distance issue. Diesel may be a better solution right now when it comes to distance between refill or charging. But when supply becomes uncertain and prices rise, all transportation will look for less expensive and more dependable power sources.
True--a friends brother brother {68 years old} ex logger/tree snipper just yesterday received the electric bicycle he bought, parked his diesel pickup. What's the world coming to?
EVs in their current state wouldn't work for me in my current state. A hybrid vehicle would and I'll check them out closely next time we're shopping for a vehicle. I do like that real world research is being done and I'm glad others are willing to be a part of that research. It may become a viable option for most people at some point. IMO it's still to early to tell. It does appear to me that our North American electrical grid will have to become much more robust before the we can convert to EVs en masse.
Remember Trevor Milton from Nikola Corporation? He served almost a nickel at Club Fed for securities fraud and creative bookkeeping. He sold Anheuser - Busch 800 Nikolai 1 HD trucks, that he never delivered. Trevor has been busy after his T$ pardon. I see he is building jets now. I don’t see this going well. SyberJet Aircraft SyberJet Aircraft - The World's Fastest Light Jets | SJ36 & SJ30 syberjet.com
Already talk as Coal Fired Electrical is waning, to use the remaining reserves(250-300 years) in a Gasification system. Retains the Coke value for making steel yet derives a distillate fuel(Germans were On This in WWII). IF economical alongside current petro reserves, then EVs are once again relegated to short commuter putt arounds and local deliveries, MAYBE as they age more meticulously they would be ready by then. I will not care
One thing is for sure, boomers are aging out and dropping like flies.
Yes we are.