Hi, I have a problem which has been slowly getting worse. My Ex 60 track motor on one side runs slow in forward, ok in reverse. The other side has the opposite problem, ok in forward, barely runs in reverse. It's got to the point where the machine is unusable as it gets trapped whenever I try to use it due to limited movement options. Any ideas?
Sounds kind of like a bad set of seals in the swivel joint.
Thanks Andrew, I had the swivel joint reconditioned a few hundred hours ago - the problem started shortly after that. So something may have gone pear shaped in the joint after the fix.
Why did you have the swivel resealed in the first place? Similar issue or a leak?
Have you checked the levers movements
Thanks for your replies. Some time ago the track motor on one side was running slow going forward. Then the stepper motor broke down and so it went in for repair and the swivel joint was found to be the cause of the slow track motor. Shortly after return the track motor began to slow down again, getting progressively worse, which as the swivel joint was reconditioned I assumed must be the track motor itself. It has only been recently that I noticed there was almost a mirror effect on the other side with the reverse movement being slow, which would indicate it's not the track motors. I have looked at the lever adjustment but was unable to get any more power even with the levers at full adjustment. Another symptom has been frequent shredding of the "o" rings in the bottom of the swivel joint (the connections coming and going from the track motors) with resultant loss of hydraulic fluid. The Machine is only used for maybe 100 hours per summer season for track maintenance/erosion repair so the problem has been slow to materialise and it was only this season that the leakages from the bottom of the swivel joint started.
Good point about the travel levers Paul, I have had a few were all I needed to do was clean the dirt out from the pedals. Lets assume for a second that when they did the reseal it everything is ok. I dont think it is your motors as it only acting up on one direction however it could be the counterbalance valves on the motor. Easy way find out is to swap the valves on the motor and see if the problem moves to the other direction. I still have suspicions about that swivel joint though.
Hi, Thanks for that I hadn't thought of that (I didn't know they existed but I've read up on them on the web now) I'll get down there tonight and swap the counterbalance valves over and let you know what happens.
Counterbalance valves in track motors are swapped over - took longer than I expected as I had to make a tool to remove the plugs holding the valves in. The track motors ran exactly the same after the swap so it's looking like the swivel joint. I'll remove it over the next few days and hope to find a damaged "O" ring or something.
A way to confirm that before taking the swivel out is put a gauge on each of the four hoses going into the swivel and compare to the fittings coming out. Heres a break down for it.
Might want to check relief pressures on travel if you find seal bad in the swivel. The housing could be wearing out the seals do to porosity. Might need to hone barrel.
Have you had any luck honing them rmllarue? I find the spindle is usually grooved out in the top land and beyond cost to repair. The machine uses the counter balance valves as the travel relief valves, then has a main relief. I have never seen one too high usually too low. Not saying its possible though.
Have honed other Swivels but mostly cat and a 753 feller buncher with success they more a less just need a polishing to aid assembly. Had honed a few hydraulic cylinders and a accumulater barrel with semi deep scratches that held a packing. Depends on condition. And I agree with pressures be high would be odd but on used equipment you never know what could of been done trying to fix / diagnose a walking complaint.
Thats good to know, most of the time when I do a swivel its because it has an external leak and when you take it apart you find the top land grooved out from dirt sitting there. I had a 800 excavator that had a 1/4 inch grove in it. No chance of new seals making that up so replacement cost of an assembly was cheaper and is on most machines, I guess if you had a good cheap machinist you could do something but that doesn't exist up here.
Haha good and cheap usually aren't friendly towards each other. The 753 was the only one I did for external leak. There were all under 50t hoes. I think mostly poorly maintained hydraulic systems shorten there life. Usually there our first stop if complaint of weak travel ether seals will be gone or hard. then adjust pressures and happy operators lol
Thanks guys, I don't have any gauges to check pressures and to get them and the fittings to connect into the lines would require lots of mileage, so I will just go for broke and remove the swivel joint. If the seals are blowing due to wear would this tend to be visible or would it only be detectable by measuring the depth of the "O" ring seats and comparing it to the manufacturers go/no go limits ( if I could find these) .
Happy operators don't exist. They'll always pick at something. Brian, those specs are not available to us in the manual. Sometimes they will release them if you press them hard enough through dtac. You'll find something obvious in the manifold, seals or metal. If they used aftermarket seals that could be an issue too. Even oem seals sometimes will fail, I had a jlg manlift that the seals were so hard from them directly they cracked upon install.
Speaking of hard seals resealed 330 clc stick cylinder over summer one seal in seal a kit was hard as rock sure enough it broke on install. Order new seal separate it was different color and way more flexible go figure. kit said Hitachi seal said john deere. have seen other john deere kits seem like they were cheaper made than individual seals. And u never know what comes in kit. Sometimes bushing sometimes not. Some times they will be missing a seal because there is a option or change. I hate ordering parts lol
Finally got the centre joint stripped down and ready to remove from the machine - I've got to make up some eyebolts to drop the joint gently out the bottom. Everything is shut up here with new years holidays so I'll have to wait a few days to get back on to it. Can't wait to pull that sucker apart! Hope everyone had a good new years and not too many sore heads out there.
I need to do the manifold on my machine, same as yours. Any tricks to getting the hoses off that sucker?
Kelly are you talking the top hoses or the bottom hoses? To get at the top hoses youve got to flip the cab. The bottom ones are just accessed through the center underneath, you may have to pull off a stump guard to get at them. Make sure you mare your lines for going back together.
Top hoses are what worried me. But i like your idea of pulling the cab. 4 bolts and she is off with lots of room.. I have had the stump plate off didnt look too bad under there. How long do you figure it takes to re and re? I am in Sooke on Vancouver Island wish I knew a mobile guy who could just do it. I am too damn big to crawl around the damn thing. I really want full power back to my tracks.
The cab actually pivots forward for access. Take a few bolts out at the back and away you go. See page 12 image 4 http://www.deere.ca/en_CA/docs/html/brochures/publication.html?id=70ec5162&altid=75ea79a2#12 It wouldnt take much more than five hours in and out. Might take an hour to change the seals. Drive the machine up onto timber to get at it easier or dig yourself a trench.
It's a 70D, I wish I had the new beast you linked me to LOL. But that's OK, the cab comes off in 4 bolts.
Yeah thats a little on the older side. Tipping cabs are awesome on those little machines, I think deeres been doing it on the small machines for quite a while.
Andrew you were right. I finally got the centre joint out - found that 3 of the 5 seals were damaged - the recon unit I had installed looks like it only had a partial reseal - 2 ? new black seals in good shape. 3 blue coloured seals falling apart 1 of those 3 almost totally gone, 1 chewed to the point where it was no longer a circle and the other had chunks out of it. The spindle looked good with no obvious wear. Got everything back in, changed hydraulic filters as they were showing plenty of blue plastic in them and the digger walks straight and true - in forward. Still only crawls backward on the right hand track. So part way there. Not sure whether to go down toward the track motor or up toward the pump now but I'm guessing it may be time to check pressures somewhere, I'm also wondering if one of the large chunks of blue plastic may be wedged somewhere causing the problem. :beatsme
Pull your spool for right propel and clean the seals out of there.
? is that up in the pump at the top?
Ok a troll thru the maintainance manual has shown me where the spools are. Will crack and clean. Thanks Andrew.
Only pull the spool for propel. No need to take them all apart. Rights the only one to be concerned about. Just follow your hoses from the swivel.
if it were a main relief valve then the rest of the machine would be effected. to eliminate that possibility you would check you pressures on all your circuits by going into service menu and stalling it out. The pressures should be the same. the boom may have a boost pressure on it may be a little higher. could be the circuit relief valves. they will be lower. but it sounds like a flow problem to me. have you checked that you pumps are putting out by doing cycle times on your other circuits?. The counterbalance valves should keep the motors running away from you on a slope when moving (to explain simply) so yes they could be a possibility. I have had a lot of centre swivels leak on me also. another way of testing them good is raise one track of the ground. stall out the out on the ground up against something stable. then see if the track that's off the ground moves. if it does the your centre swivel if bad. I have had a lot rebuilt and sometimes it works and other times it doesn't. I have had to replace then right away after being rebuilt and its worked. good luck
I have pulled the spool on the right track and it was clean. Put it back together and still hardly any action on the right track reverse. I'll try Dr . Dc's stall out test to see if my rebuild of the centre joint was only partly effective ( ? I may have stuffed something up putting it back together). Unsure how to go into service menu on EX 60 but would having it in low revs and trying to stall it in various modes R track forward, R track reverse, L track forward , left track reverse - tell me anything?
Tried the stall test, with the bad track on the ground and good track up in the air - good track did not move when trying to reverse the bad ( grounded ) track. Tried the opposite , with bad track in the air and good track grounded but stalling out on a log in reverse . No movement from the airborne (bad ) track. So ? my renewed swivel joint is OK. Also tried stalling the machine by moving forward and reverse in idle with both tracks on flat ground. Stalled in all attempts to move on the good track and in forward on the right track but on the reverse in the right track the machine did not stall out - no load seemed to be put on the machine at all. I have a feeling that may mean something - just unsure what. Question - if the track motor on the right was bad would it only be bad in one direction or would it fail in both directions equally? Thanks Guys I appreciate your help with this
track fail would be in both directions. to get the service menu- have key off, press and hold settings button(should be the middle button of the three), turn key on while still holding the button, when hours come up release button. then press the button till the desired display. there will be two of the displays one for pump 1 and one for pump 2 ( around 33mpa)., and then for pump 1 pilot, and pump 2 pilot around 4.0mpa. the boom will be about 2.0mpa hire then the rest of the circuits due to boost. Cant remember what the cycle times of each circuit would be . but if the machine seems slow when you arm out all the way and then arm in all the way then you would have a pump flow problem. same with the bucket circuit. and the same with your aux circuit ( if you have and aux attachment like a thumb).
Back again, success at last. Got a tiny bit of crud out of the valves etc up by the spools but couldn't find anything major enough to solve problem. Then swapped 2 hoses going into the controller to test if the problem was in the controller or in the swivel joint. The result was that even by swapping hoses I couldn't get the R hand track reverse working. Which seemed to point me back to the swivel joint. But as I had cleaned everything up top related to the tracks I thought I'd have a look at the spool on the L track up at the control - and I noticed when I got the cap off that the spools were 4mm different in height throughout their travel. So I adjusted back at the levers and R reverse came back. So the problem was not only 3 blown swivel joint seals but the fact that when I had tried to adjust the levers after I lost the reverse tracking (my first attempt at a fix)I hadn't quite got them the same on returning them back to position when the adjustment didn't help. So when I fixed there problem of the blown seals I had a new problem of my own creation. Only one problem now remains and that is that the forward tracking is now slower on one side than the than the other - which is new - the reverse tracking seems to be ok - I'm hoping it's just an adjustment issue. Thanks for the help from everyone on this board.
Briancon, I have an old ex60urg with weak drives and blade. I will be re-building the center pivot as soon as I find a kit. You mention a manual in your posts. I would really enjoy having one. Would you be willing to share your sources of parts and manuals?
Hi Big-D, I will transfer a manual off my old computer and onto this one and then see if I can attach it to my next post for you - its a few hundred pages but we'll see how it goes. As for parts I just pulled the centre joint out and took the seals in to my local Hydraulic repair shop - the seals, o rings etc are all metric and standard - so instead of a kit you can get them measured and they can just order them for you. Could be cheaper that way rather than getting a manufacturers kit - but it could be worth checking.
Would it be easier to attach it to a personal email? I really appreciate this. [email protected]
Sorry, [email protected] Auto correct got me again
Yep you were right - It was taking forever to upload - I've sent it to your email. Should already be there. Only tip I would give you is when you put the seals into the centre joint you could try bending them into a heart shape and inserting them that way - it makes it easier - especially if they are the two part seals as they can come apart when you try to stuff them in. Thats what I'd do next time anyway. Also watch the seal at the top ( the one with the metal rim) it would be easy to install upside down if you haven't noted which way up it was when it came out. Cheers and have fun - hope it does the job
Hi Big-D the attachment exceeded your maximum message size and it's come back to me. ?do you have another email address?
Yes Brian, [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] Maybe if you break it down in sections... I'm sorry to make you jump through hoops for me, and I am happy to return the favor in some way or compensate you for your trouble. Thank you for your efforts and the advice.