I'm working on deepening a pond that is anywhere from about 200 to 500 feet across. My Hitachi EX270 excavator is good for digging along the edge, but can't reach out nearly far enough to deal with most of the area. I've thought of various solutions, including building temporary causeways or using a couple of barges. One idea that sounds promising it to use a Skyline Yarder system, similar to what they use for logging on steep mountain slopes. The excavator (60,000 lbs) could serve as the anchor to attach the skyline and haulback lines to on the other side of the pond. But I would need a yarder, a dragline type bucket, and all the cables. Does anyone here have any experience with this type of equipment? What type of yarder and bucket would be suitable? What might one have to pay for used equipment like this and where is a good place to buy it? Is this a dumb idea or can it work well if done properly? Any info and tips will be appreciated.
Where are you located in Canada? I've seen this method used for cleaning manure lagoons on farms and there are also a couple set up digging gravel under water.It should work but I would think a little spendy to set up and use for one job. Old yarders should be quite easy to find right now especially with scrap prices where they are. If your close to the west coast let me know and I'll take some time and show you the gravel setup.
Try this link. http://www.ramseycoinc.com/Yarders.htm
Interesting bucket. Last one of these rigs I saw was digging a sand and gravel lake in Central Ohio. The bucket on that rig looked to be a modified 988 rim hacked apart
Excavator, do you have any idea where one would look for an old yarder? Since this may only be used on this one project, I can't justify spending too much on the specialized equipment. I came across a few yarders searching on line, but did not find anything promising in my price range. Most units likely are in B.C. or Washington state, and many likely are sitting idle gathering rust. I'm in the western prairies but would consider bringing something in from the mountains. That Ramsey site has a good diagram that helps with visualizing what is involved. I guess that is a start.
The Ramseys bucket is what makes it work so good. When its full it quits digging. then you only have the weight of the material to pull across the bottom.
Pond dig ? Couple of ideas to throw out . How about draining the pond or lake by pumping it out ?? A couple big diesel pumps rented ?? How about a portable dredge ? ?? Put an extension on you excavator stick ? 60' reach ??
Pumping or dredging are things I've considered. Pumping might work if we go into a long dry cycle and the water table dries up. During the last few years, the water table has been so high that pumping likely would not work. Water would flow in as fast as one could take it out. I have looked around for a couple of barges, thinking that I could put the excavator on one and load onto the other. But there aren't many barges in this part of the prairies. No luck so far on that front. A longer reach on the excavator would help. How would one add an extension onto the Hitachi? Does one remove the existing stick and replace it with a long reach stick? Or is there another way? If I could find a cheap yarder and bucket, that might be work well. So I'm interested in learning more about that option as well.
Ever consider a dragline? This will let you get a lot more of the pond. You can actually "cast" the bucket with a dragline. Im sure you would be able to get a majority of the pond that way. What is your material like. Since you said something about high water table im going to guess a silty sand, or something with a lot of gravel?
Turbo, you are right about the gravel. This is a small gravel pit where the gravel extends anywhere from four feet to ten feet into the water table. Below that is slimy blue clay. In some areas, the guys operating the excavators did a poor job, leaving a lot of humps and hollows. So there is gravel left to remove and I would like to take out some of the blue clay underneath to deepen the entire area. Before buying the excavator, I looked around for a dragline. It seems that few remain in this part of the country, or they are too big to move for one job. I did find one located about three hours away with about a sixty foot reach that had not run for years. In some ways, the skyline setup would do much the same thing as a dragline but have a much longer reach. I have a loader to move the spoils pile. A yarder would be a lot easier to transport than a large dragline, at least if it is a portable unit mounted on a truck.
Probably your best bet is to hire someone to do the work and add that cost in to the sales of your finished product. Doing it yourself means you have to go through the same development of process that someone like Ramsey has already done. They have already paid that cost and have the expertise that you are trying to learn. If you want to find a yarder and tower I would suggest getting a copy of Loggers World. It's a monthly paper published in Chehalis or Centralia, Washington. They usually have many adds from companies trying to buy or sell logging equipment. The blue clay you speak of is known as glacial till in this neck of the woods. If your material is anything like what we have here, an excavator or drag line will have a very hard time digging it.
Excavator stick Extension Here's a cheap way to extend the reach of your excavator .:usa http://www.dsmanufacturing.ca/pages/extension.html
Northart, thanks for the link to the stick extension. I can imagine that one would have to adjust the digging technique when using that, since it isn't possible to curl the long stick in close to the machine. A small bucket also would be a necessity. I have a one yard bucket that might work well with that. John C., hiring someone likely would be the cheaper way to go. But I'm kind of stubborn and view things like this as a challenge. That blue clay is nasty stuff. It's nearly impenetrable with hand tools. We hand dug a well here years ago and found out how difficult it is to dig. Even when wet, it's nearly impossible to force a shovel into. But the Hitachi can handle the clay quite easily when digging from the solid shore, even with a 63" cleanup bucket. Quite possibly a dragline style bucket on a skyline would have a more difficult time with it??
If you think a dragline bucket or excavator bucket has a hard time with a blue glacial till, wait until you throw a skyline bucket at it. Its going to gather any loose material, such as gravel and sand. Its going to skip over the clay, the only thing the makes it dig in is the weight of the bucket.
Saureman (spelling?) bucket. Goes on a dragline, uses a large machine for a moveable anchor. Lotsa pros and cons.
Hey guys new to the site love it already. Im from edmonton and if you do get the yarder system digging i would like to see it working swampdog. Or atleast some vid on it thanks
Ellicott 8" Dredge Hi Swampdog, Another idea, click on the video, at the lower left for viewing. Truck transportable . Maybe you can rent one ?? http://www.dredge.com/animations/swinging_ladder_dredge_animation.htm
Northart, a portable dredge like that would likely be perfect. It would not handle the bigger rocks, so they would have to stay on the bottom. But that would be OK. I've never seen one of these dredges on the Canadian prairies - maybe someone on here knows of one in this part of the continent?? A similar concept would involve placing the Hitachi excavator on a barge and loading material onto another barge. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find transportable barges that can carry a 60,000 lb excavator. I haven't completely given up on the idea of using a skyline, although the comments made about the difficulty of digging glacial till/blue clay with a skyline have me thinking twice about that option. I'd still like to try it as an experiment, but maybe with rented or borrowed equipment if I can find that. It's certainly better to learn about the pitfalls of a plan before spending a lot of money on equipment. That's one reason why this forum is very useful. Since it is only early January, I still have three or four months to think about this. Some people have advised that this would be a good job to do in the winter, working from on top of the ice. The ice here usually reaches a thickness of three or four feet by February. But I don't care much for running equipment in winter. And while the ice may freeze to the bottom in shallow areas, it would not do so everywhere. Job #1 is to avoid disaster!
Barges ? There are modular barges , that are road transportable. They are pinned together, to form a larger barge for various purposes. There is the pontoon excavator with tracks also. All you 'd have to do is buy, or rent the pontoons. You already have the excavator. Another idea, is increase the ice thickness, by pumping the water up for freezing. 5'-6' of ice ? ? Up at Prudhoe Bay , they used Pontoons on Long Reach excavators for digging a subsea pipeline trench, from the gravel islands to shore. 30' deep waters. Ditch Witches cut the ice for trenching, then the excavator straddled the ice trench. Forgot how many miles of pipeline they installed that way. The sidebooms laid the pipe off the top of the ice. Just like on land. Wish I had pictures of that.
I just saw this thread. If you have any questions on this type of work let me know. This is what we do. We contract dig, manufacture and sell or lease systems. My cell number is on the web site www.ramseycoinc.com Thx
cableguy, I wish you and your equipment were next door. As it is, you might be about 1500 miles away. I don't know of similar equipment in this part of the continent. What is your experience with digging blue clay or glacial till? In our situation here, the blue clay is under water. Will the bucket on a skyline system have trouble digging blue clay? Also, do you think it is possible to buy a basic second hand yarder system for my needs and to run this without prior experience with these systems? What kind of money might I need to spend to buy the yarder, cables, bucket, etc. My excavator (65,000 lbs) likely could serve as the anchor for the far end. Thanks for your help.
Most all the material we dig is glacial till. how hard is the blue clay? Can you dig it with your excavator? Give me a call and I'll answer your other questions. Thx.
Thanks cable guy; I'll call sometime soon. The excavator has no trouble with the blue clay. I've used both an aggressive bucket with teeth and a 63" clean up bucket; both dig the blue clay without much difficulty.
I recall there being a skyline excavator/dragline sitting in a contractor's yard at Acheson, just on the west side of Edmonton. Not sure who the yard or setup belongs to, but maybe someone around the Edmonton area would be able to look into it for you. If I recall, it was in a yard on the corner right across from ArrowWest Equipment. Brian
Thanks for the lead, Alco. If anyone in Edmonton is driving by that spot and can check it out, I would appreciate more info. I am debating whether or not to go to the RB sale in Edmonton later this month. A yarder to look at would provide another reason to make the trip.
what about a excavator on pontoon tracks float out and dig deep
Good idea. Along with a barge to load the material on, that would work. Again, it's a matter of not having that type of equipment available in this part of the country. I'm still considering all options.
your best bet would be a long reach excavator with a yard and a quarter bucket. i'm from indiana and we have the same slimy blue clay at our sandpit and our long reach link belt does a good job of dealing with it and loading it into trucks.
There's a company in Canada that builds these machines. They advertise in rock and dirt. Washington cable systems is their name and they fabricate long reach cable excavators. They may even have some in your area.
Thanks cable excavator. From their web site, it looks as if they are in Manitoba, which is not too far away. I'll check it out.