Don't know if this has been posted already... http://www.totallycrap.com/videos/videos_cat_excavator_rolls_down_a_muddy_hill/ .
OUCH ! not pretty. :OMG! If he managed to stay with it he might have servived. Even with his belt on it goes over at least 2 full turns and the door is open. If you read the comments somebody translates ( apparently its Mexican ) in basic English the camera man says " that a hole is ( begins with f and cant be used on here ) and I have to agree with him. Is that a 330 or 345?
I don't see a ROPS, although it's hard to tell for sure. With or without a seatbelt, that operator would be lucky to walk away.
The C@t cab is a ROPS in UK, I assume it would be Worldwide. No additional structure though, I agree.
Every piece of equipment is required by law to have a ROPS on it, they just build the cabs to take the abuse. Now when you see additional protection above the cab that is a FOPS, or Falling Objects Protection.
We had a customer roll a JCB JS220 last summer. All cabs are required by law to be ROPS. Thing to remember in a rollover is to get your head down and stay to the right. Our cab was bent up pretty good. Boom structure helped the cab maintain it's integrity. Our roll over wasn't near as dramatic, but the machine checked out OK. New fluids and sheet metal and it was good to go. We did ultrasonic testing along with magnifluxing every structural component.
If you listen at the end you can hear the operator screamin in pain/ Did that happen in the states. I know they were speaking spanish but that doesnt mean it happened in Mexico.
That's the craziest heavy equipment video I have ever seen!!
Dito! Thats just crazy!
Holy cow! That was one heck of a ride. It looked like a 330 to me.
WOW
It would be nice and IMO should be required to provide a little additional info when these videos are submitted, like the video of the grain siloh being demolished, the building rolled over on the boom and somewhat pulled the excavator into a cascade of unthinkable debris. But that could also hamper the publishing of many funny and informational clips that we all enjoy. You know it makes me and I'm sure others wonder was this guy experienced or was it his first time in the seat. (did he, maybe ask his buddy. hey can I drive it?) not operate it. Can you imagine climbing into a machine for the first time and ride that out. Sometimes I will think too much on a situation but this is one of the most troubling videos I've seen on here.
That'll buff right out. The real problem is - where will they EVER find an operator of that calibre to replace him??
who disabled the brakes?
I don't know where you get this ROPS crap but this is no regulation for ROPS cabs on excavators in the United States. The Feds and most states don't even require a back up alarm on an excavator.
Sounds like a 330 to me. As for where are they going to find an oeprator of his calibre... well its gonna be a long hard dearch. But someday they will find one.
Slide and roll YouTube - Backhoe Tumbles Down Mountainside Ouch! I've merged the two threads about the same video. Digger
wow hope he lived that was a monster tumble
HOLY CRAP! What a scary feeling that must be. Don't EVER want to feel that way. WOW.
If I had had any additional info I would have posted it. That's the way I am.
Ouch ! that was very diplomatically put. As for back up alarms they are not a legal requirement in the UK, but if you can slew 360* to check before you move then its probably not so important. :beatsme I didnt read it as a dig at you, you only posted the link, or are you trying to tell us you know the cameraman Its been a while but I can honestly say that vid left me layed in bed thinking last night. Not nice.
The film of that excavator sliding away down that bank, left me Cold and quite Shocked, in only a few seconds things ended in what is best discribed as Havoc, if the pilot lived after that sequence it would be some act of God. tctractors
OK, as far as the ROPS issue goes, I think that most of the more common excavators in the U.S. are now refering to their cabs as being ROPS. But I've seen some pretty serious damage to these cabs. We do not require fall protection on our excavators. Across the border in British Columbia I'm told that if you have a thumb mounted on your excavator you WILL have fall protection. If not, the fine is significant. As far as the operator goes, what excavator operator has not put themselves in a position that if one little thing would have gone wrong, they would have been seriously hurt or killed. An excavator is a machine that is so easy to operate that most anyone can jump in the seat and sort of operate it and thats where many people get themselves in trouble. But even the most experienced operators will have bad things happen. I didn't see anything in the beginning of this video that I've not seen many good operators do and when he started sliding there wasn't much he could do. Our Labor and Industries requires that if you are sitting in the cab with the engine running you must have your seat belt on. If this were to happen you would not have time to release your belt and jump and when it rolls you would stay in the cab.
I have to disagree I think youll find few if any excavator cabs that are ROPS certified the USA I know of no CAT excavators with ROPS cabs
AtlasRob, I was probably a little blunt but I didn't want anyone to start believing that the tin shell cab they put on excavators could ever be thought of as being safe in a roll over. I have been part of installing a lot of falling object covers on logging machines and excavators. It is one of my pet peeves how we can require ROPS on a dozer that generally makes it own road but a shovel logger that will travel in places a man would need climbing gear for does not require any protection. As far as the video goes I saw the operator keep the boom on the high side of the carbody as he was starting to go towards the hill. That was what told me the operator had no business being in the cab of that machine. I've seen good operators slide a few machines to the bottom of a hill and walk away and generally not do much damage to the machine. In this case I'm sure there was a serious injury if not a death. I found the video somewhat disturbing and think the only possible good that might come from posting it is some might be warned about operation in the future. I know how an airplane flies and can identify and move all the controls. I would never think that I could fly it safely. Why do we think we can put anyone at the controls of a big machine and expect them to be safe?
WOW! I am suprised. I just took it for granted that the main manufacturers would use a cab to the best quality/standard available to them and if they fitted a cab to ROPS standard for the UK ( I was going to say European ) market then I assumed ( never assume) that would be the norm across most of the world. I realise many places only have a canopy due to the climate but I took a cab to be a cab. So does anybody know if a R oll O ver P rotective S tructure ( before anybody has to ask what a ROPS is ) has a world standard or National standard ? is the UK the leader in this approach. ( I am not trying to score points for the UK just intrested )
I was a bit suprised I must admit but I see your point. I am absolutely gobsmaked that there could/would be different standards of cabs. I think the important thing is that a ROPS, is that, Roll Over, not bomb proof! As for the excavator I could go into a lot of what I didn't like and would not have done but I fear it is too late. Very frightening and as you state hopefully a sharp wake up call for many that think they can operate.
Very interesting discussion! In a rollover, I would not want to trust my life to the flimsy factory cab on my Hitachi. Even a large falling tree could do a lot of damage. Before I bought it, this particular machine did duty in northern B.C. forestry work. It has an excellent aftermarket structure, which does make one feel much more secure. It's also good for keeping unwanted things (rocks, trees, etc) out of the operator's compartment One drawback to the protection on this Hitachi is that the aftermarket protection makes escaping the machine nearly impossible should it roll on its left side. A rollover into water or if a fire started after the rollover would be the worst. The heavy plate on top of the cab blocks the roof escape hatch. And the heavy bars on the front and back windows prevent escape by those routes. The only other way out is through the right side window, which has horizontal bars installed from the factory. Fortunately those bars are screwed in place (not welded like all the other bars.) I keep a large Phillips screwdriver handy to remove those bars should the need arise.
Now thats another can of worms altogether, FOPS, F alling O bject P rotective S tructure. Which is what you have fitted :yup I am suprised that your back window is not a clear means of escape, I think I am correct in saying that is a requirement in the UK for exactly the reason you state. I would seriously ask a proffessional about getting that back window cleared. On edit, thanks Digger.
Sorry, my mistake. I just looked out the window at the excavator and the back window does not have bars on it.
Here's a better picture of the FOPS, including the plating around the rest of the machine.
Having seen a few smashed cabs on excavators I am sure they are not designed to withstand the weight of the machine landing on them. The structure Swampdog has is better than nothing but it also would not likely take the weight. Its primary purpose is to keep things from entering the cab area. most forestry packages are the same thing. A good one can withstand a tree falling on it with no major damage but will not stop a roll over.
Well there you go. All you need to do now is change that philips to a small hammer I would not be suprised if you found a small glass breaker clipped to the rear doorside pillar, or the clip where it used to be. Very professional looking structure, on a tidy machine :drinkup
The cab does not have to stop a roll over or not buckle during a roll over but it needs to have enough strength to provide the operator a safety cell big enough for him to not end up like a pancake. There is a big difference between slipping into a trench and laying the machine on its side or off the side of a stockpile, than dropping off a highwall or having a highwall drop on you. A very big dent or crease is acceptable in my book if it holds enough for the operator to survive. As a few on here say, it'll buff out. :drinkup As for things entering the cab, I saw that machine on Axe Men, bullet proof glass I would really like to see pictures of this when it was put back on its feet. Copied from The incident happened just before 3 p.m. on Kimlo Road in Wellesley. The operator was able to walk away without any serious injury. "He's very fortunate. The cab was crushed down to about half its normal space. So he's very fortunate," said a Wellesley Police officer. It was a man nearby who hear the operators screams and rushed over to help. He was able to break the window of the excavator to pull the worker out. on 2nd edit. It crushed the cab to half its size but somebody broke the window to pull him out.
amtronic. I certainly did not have reference to you. If you read my post, you will see I referenced several videos and I also stated how additional required info could hinder the posting of many videos that we all enjoy and learn from, and what I mean by that is it would require additional steps to get the videos staged where we all have access to videos and the info would come with the link. I'm talking about the first release to the web. not you or anybody else on this site. Sorry about the mix-up.
Well that didn't go quite as planned. I got a pit in my stomach watching that. I really can't understand what he was trying to do. When things really started to go bad it seemed like he just made all the wrong moves. I guess he just froze up.
what happened to the brakes? why did it freewheel like that?
I don't think it freewheeled....it just slid on the muddy surface. (hard to really tell on these grainy videos). If he had time to swing around uphill right after the machine started sliding he coulda maybe grabbed the earth and possibly slowed down down that mess....or it would have flipped over sooner when the counter weight swung down hill. Of course this is all just conjecture on my part..... who knows.Certainly a bad deal for someone.
Hard to tell from the video, but it looks to me like it was just sliding the whole way.
Thats what I see too, and I have slid before and always stopped, this guy might have thought the same thing and not reacted as he could have with hindsight.
The Hitachi with the cover is not even FOPS rated. The legs on the outside are set to the catwalks which are welded into the side of the curve on the house frame. It's better than nothing and does convey a sense of security to the operator. It will stop small trees and maybe a one man rock falling from a high wall. As far as the window goes, AtlasRob is correct about the window breaking hammer. All Hitachi excavators came with them from the Dash Five up. Komatsu put zippers in the molding around the rear windows. I think Cat does the same. I've seen many a log come through the front window and not even slow down. I've also seen machine accidents that were fatal where big trees have flattened the guard, cab and actually bent the bottom of the house frame. The big thing for me is having qualified operators. The proper move to make before that flip over would have been to swing the bucket down the hill using the bucket to act as a leg.
I would agree entirely. Hard to imagine myself in that situation and how I'd react, but I feel I could've stopped myself had I been in the seat. This is all assuming I screwed up enough to the point of sending the machine into a slide, rule #1 is to keep track of what's underfoot. The guy just froze up, though. Bucket hardly left the ground and it didn't appear that much effort was made to stop the machine from sliding down the slope. Inexperienced operator, unfortunately.
WOW ... I looked at the Cat site...NO ROPS... provisions on most for FOPS.... on small one had a TOPS.. I'm guessing tip over... I been on slick stuff... I couldn't move... I reached about a 1/2" too far... and I pull myself over the break of the slope.... I wiggled a bit but nothing... got out and walked over to get the dozer hand... hooked a cable to the track... swung around... then pulled myself back up the slope
Finally managed to view the video on a friends computer, I keep getting a pop up covering the actual video? All I can say that there is surely a lesson or two for us all there. I sincerely hope the operator was OK, but I wouldn't have wanted to do his laundry! I am just in disbelief that once she statrted to go he does absolutely nothing to try to stop himself. The bucket could be dug in either side and the machine would usually pivot around it and end up with the tracks accross the slope. I still can't believe who quickly it all went so wrong, we have all probably done a few daft things and it's not a bad thing to have that image stored in your memory next time you are pushing the limits a bit. I would like to see some images of the machine when it was finally recovered.
The hill is a lot steeper than I thnk the video conveys. It looks like he has the bucket turned under the front of the rig to act like a pick. What happens then is it goes over center and folds under, and he surfs down on the backside of the bucket. Just my amateur analysis. Here is a pic from a European site. FOPS but no ROPS. And yes I think the painter was having some fun identifying the model (I didn't modify the pic).
You can see the stick get pushed into the machine as it starts to slide downward. You can also hear the machines engine load. I would guess he was "trying" to save it by booming down or crowding out but the machine was already heading over. I'm def. not an operator. But with the time to replay it over and over I think everyone can come up with a better plan. While in the seat I would have been just riding it out. Hopefully he was not injured. Has anyone been able to find any info online about it? JJ
A Spanish language search for excavator rollovers did not help identify this incident. But numerous search results came up for fatalities and injuries from similar accidents in Spain and elsewhere in the Spanish speaking world. An English language search turned up the following link from an accident in B.C. YouTube - Worker survives excavator rollover My apologies if this has been posted before. Note that the excavator did have an aftermarket protection package, although it wasn't done properly.
Having played it more times than I care to admit I have to come to the conclusion that its very unlikely he survived. If not at the scene then later. If you listen after the camera drops and a good few seconds after the second roll that is visible, there is a distinct THUD! then cries/screams/shouts from who I take to be the person that was in the cab. I have to conclude that the machine drops off a ledge of some kind on its third or even 4th roll. I imagine it would have taken a while to get any serious medical attention to him. Does anybody else think that is a river at the bottom beyond the tree line.
There is a slight pause in sound from the machine rolling before the final crash and the operators last gasp. I imagine that pause is the machine going over the edge. Its hard to watch and listen to this.
Its scary !
i found it on you tube - accidentes de excavadoras. the video is longer worth a look.
i slid a 315 with a hammer down a muddy hill a few winters ago. it was hell to stop with just that little bit sticking on to the muddy ground finally snaged a rock and it spun me around about 20 feet before going of the sea wall and hitting the new 50 thousand dollar boat dock. the only damage was a compleatly ruined pair of fuit of the looms
Here are the link for the extended version YouTube - accidente en autopista mexico tuxpam excavadora 330.3gp
WHOWWWW!!!!!!! That was nasty!
Dang that one makes goosebumps... Once in that spot what else could hvae been done. He had to raise his arm to try and get a closer grasp to help push while he drove it back up the hill right????? Of course now I'm sure all involved would have parked the machien there and set up a rescue mission with winches and equipment. What a shame and sure hope he made it.
Sadly the description on Youtube say he diden´t
WOW! Thats even worse knowing that I watched a persons last moments.
sad loss what a sad loss of life ,can anyone translate what they are saying to each other ,the operator looks very uneasy as he first gets in to the machine
The original post has a few comments under it like they do on you tub, which is where I found the bit I posted. Seeing that longer version shows just how inexperienced he was / is ( I sincerely hope he made it but I doubt it ) I originally thought it was clay he was sliding on but that shows it was rock. I say inexperienced because I dont believe any experienced operator would have tracked forward in the manner he did, holding the machine up on the bucket gave him no feel for a slide and by the time he decided to try and come back up he was too far committed. The way he tried to get back up also points to inexperience / panic.
Video description translation using google spanish to english.... 330 excavator accident construction of the highway mexico - Tuxpam, the operator was Huauchinango died shortly after accident. if you pay attention you can hear the screams of the operator to overturn the excavato
translation someone has told me the following Hethe camera operator tells him before anyone is in the cab ''go on chicken'' then nothing much is said until he gets stuck, then the guy with the camera keeps telling him ''go down some more'' he says this three times. i wonder how he feels
wow hearing those screams really sends a chill up your spine! I would have been no where near the edge especially with my inexperience.
No. The cameraman is being responsible and rational. He is yelling a warning: He is saying basically, if you continue, you are going down. The potatoe head in the machine (con mas juevos que cerebros) didn't hear him.
Thank you for translating.... I couldn't imagine the camera man encouraging someone to to do something so risky.
From watching the first 5 minutes of the video I thought the operator looked fairly experienced. He was quick and seemed to have good control of the unit. Then at about 5:25 he kind of nosed over to the steep part and started sliding a little. Then at 5:45 he gets it stopped and gets up to look things over, then try’s to back up. It looks kind of wet and slippery, and just starts to spin the tracks backwards. He was cleaning up in the first part of the video, so in my opinion they must have buried a gas line or something before the clean up. He has probably been up and down that hill quite a few times before. Looks like it might have gotten muddy and he didn't have any traction to back up the hill, but kept trying. It looked like he was holding it with the stick and bucket when he had it stopped at 8:00, but after that it looked to me like something give way and the bucket or cylinder might have collapsed, because it looked like it came toward the machine so that it wasn't holding it any longer, and down he went. I think he might have been putting on a show for the video camera for part of the video, going a little further than normal. Everybody does that when the camera's rolling. Just goes to show how quick things can go bad on you when you’re in adverse conditions. He came close to saving it several times, before it went down the hill. God Bless him
I'll second that....God bless him. Gravity wins every time. On this topic, any thoughts on how steep of a slope might be considered safe?
Dont know where your from they are required by LAW here. They also follow up with fines here. And thats first hand experience talking!
There most certainly is a ROPS on that machine. All reputable mfg's build a ROPS cab. Not sure it would have helped in that accident though!
Gentlemen, Crawl into any Cat excavator and take a picture of the ROPS tag for me. When you find one I'll be the first to say I was wrong. I don't anticipate making that apology any time soon.
There are a few lessons here. First, don't get in a situation over your ability Second, when you are in a bad spot, STOP and get help. Don't be too proud to be on the end of a hook, it just may save you. If any move you make makes things worse, it is past time to stop. You can see how slick this muddy rocky material is by how much he is sliding even on the level ground. Whatever made him think he could negotiate the slope when he couldn't sit still on the flat is beyond my grasp. I have my doubts that he really tried going over the slope. If you look closely when he goes out over the edge, he slides while crowding in with the stick. Once over the edge, he really should have stopped, as everything he did ended up with him farther down the hill. When he taked the final big slide, notice that his bucket is heel down, and it acts like a ski. He seems to realize this and looks to be trying to put the teeth down, but only ends up with the stick in too close to do anything. By then it is too late anyway. Also notice when he tries to swing the boom downhill, that the tracks turn the opposite way, making him be on more of a sidehill angle. I am with John C on the ROPS issue. If you find the tag, we can share the dish of crow together. It is easy when we work in tough conditions to be overconfident. I have taken excavators places I would not try again, and have been in close to as bad of situations as we see here. It is not a good feeling, to be sure. Fortunately none of my experiences ended this way, and I am now wiser (I hope) for the experience. I once took off down a 2.5:1 slope covered with concreted rip rap. It was about a 50 ft long slope, and had a 15 ft wide bench at the bottom before continuing down into 30 or so ft of water. I needed to get down to the bench to clean a clogged drain to prevent a flood. I started carefully, making sure to be lined up straight, and kept my bucket close to the ground with the stick near vertical. My mistake was having the bucket heel down. When I first started to slide like I knew I would, I put the bucket down. BIG MISTAKE!! It acted like a ski, and the slide immediately sped up. I had enough presence of mind to boom back up, and uncurl the bucket while moving the stick out. When the teeth were down, and the stick about 45 deg. out in front, I stuck the bucket down again. At first it bounced, but I lined up on some rocks and got it slowed down. Remember not to try turning, because once you are sliding, it is more likely to turn the tracks than the upper structure. I was fortunate to slide to a stop just as I reached the bench, and did not go in the water. It could have easily ended badly. That was a fast 50 ft trip! If I had to do it again, I would wait untill there was another machine, preferably with a winch, to lower me down. It is not worth risking your life just to get the machine somewhere.
get ur facts straight John..........dang:Banghead
And Third: Jump!
I was climbing the beaver tail of a low boy one night when the truck started sliding back just as i was about to come over the tail. the hoe rocked back and forth really hard we started sliding down a really steep part of the road. I could see the jeep and truck starting to jack knife so i hit reverse on the pedles hoping the tracks making contact with the ground would stop the unit. It didnt one track touched first and spun the machine around the truck and trailer hit the machine and it rolled twice it was a hitachi 450 cab was smashed boom was bent but i walked away. took me almost a year before i would climb a tail again even on flat ground.
I assumed that excavators all had ROPS, until the issue was brought up. So I have done some research only to find out that Federal OSHA does not require ROPS on hydraulic excavators. From - http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=STANDARDS&p_id=10833 States may have stricter guidelines that the Federal rules. Cat does not list their cabs as ROPS, either as standard equipment or optional equipment. Here is the spec sheet from Cat on a 336DL. Click the tab Standard/Optional Equipment. They do list a FOPS guard. Cat may offer a ROPS as a special option, I know all possible options are not listed on their website info. I think this discussion on ROPS has been very beneficial. Like I said, I always assumed excavators had ROPS. Like Jerry, I have taken excavators into some bad places. Knowing that I am not protected by a ROPS, now will always affect my decisions while operating.
I dont understand what you are suggesting, would you care to elaborate.
Depends on their mood If someone gets hurt in an excavator, you might want to have a good Lawyer if nothing else! :Banghead When the Fed's get involved you never know for sure what they are going to do. In reading through some of these letters and rules, I see in one they say you need a ROPS because it is considered Material Handling Equipment. Here's a copy of a letter to someone asking for advise. 03/22/1991 - The Standards do not exclude equipments by weight of the machine for rollover protective structure. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Standard Interpretations - Table of Contents -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- • Standard Number: 1926.602; 1926.1000 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- March 22, 1991 Mr. Dan Delauder, President Future Equipment Inc. P.O. Box 221814 Anchorage, Alaska 99522 Dear Mr. Delauder: This is in response to your letter of January 2, requesting that we advise if (ROPS) Roll Over Protection is required on the Digger 50 hydraulic excavator which is built in Sweden. We have coordinated your request with the State of Alaska-OSHA since they have observed the operation of your Digger 50. The "Digger 50 Excavator", has been determined to come under OSHA standards at 29 CFR 1926.602, Material Handling Equipment. Also under 29 CFR 1926.1000, Roll over Protective Structure (ROPS), for material handling equipment. The review was made from the literature and the video tape forwarded to us and from the on-site review of your excavator by the State of Alaska-OSHA. It has been determined that a ROPS is required. I understand that you have received the SAE standards you needed for your trip to Sweden and your meeting with the Swedish Design & Mfg. Company. In response to the question raised by telephone, concerning SAE J 1040, would the need for ROPS on your Digger 50 Excavator be eliminated due to the fact the machine does not have a mass weight of more than 700kg? 29 CFR 1926.602 and 29 CFR 1926.1000 do not exclude equipment by weight of the machine. Therefore, ROPS is required on the Digger 50 excavator should it be used in an American workplace. The OSHA standard at 29 CFR 1926.1000 was derived from the SAE J 167 standard. Please advise if we can be of further assistance. Sincerely, Gerald P. Reidy, Director Office of Construction and Maritime Compliance Assistance -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Standard Interpretations - Table of Contents Anytime I have ever been involved with the cab frame getting bent or dinged by the bucket or maybe pushed over a little from falling in a trench, we have always replaced it. No insurance company has ever questioned it either. Prices usually start at about $20,000.00 for a new ROPS for an excavator. I'm not sure if they need a tag or not? :beatsme
1926.1000 does not list hydraulic excavators in the list of equipment required to have ROPS. Hydraulic excavators are covered under the 1926.602(b)(3). - From - http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=INTERPRETATIONS&p_id=25362 Interesting. Excavators are NOT required to have seat belts by OSHA, well at least in one interpretation. So excavators are not covered or considered as "similar equipment" in one interpretation but are considered in another. If the Digger 50 has a rotating upper structure it is covered by 1926.602b, so it doesn't even need a seat belt. I agree, clear as mud?? Ahhhh gotta love the Federal Gov't.:bash
You got the nail square on the head there CM :thumbsup Thanks for your research. As I stated before I am gobsmacked that ROPS cabs are not a standard fit. :beatsme Thanks for the PM, no prob. :drinkup
That is a real eye opener, its something that'll definately be in the back of my mind next time I'm feel that I'm getting to the limits of mine or the machines abilities. If any of you guys were in that same situation and you had to get down that hill would any of you have considered going down backwards? The reason I'm asking is that I remember seeing an older and very experienced operator who was digging in a new watermain going down a very long steep hill, and he would dig his bucket hard into the bottom of the trench and then ease himself down backwards and once he got the machine settled he would start digging very steadily again, the hill was so steep that no one was able to get a machine near the trench to backfill it, at least no one was allowed to attempt it as it was deemed unsafe by the boss, so it all had to be backfilled by hand. After seeing him doing this there has been a few occassions when I've done it like this myself and it certainly feels very unnatural, but when you think about it you have a much better chance of controlling the machine if it starts to slide, and there is no chance of sliding 'around' the bucket like there is when its in front of you (been there, done that and got the brown underwear to prove it!). But as you have all said before the video makes for quite disturbing veiwing and I hope I never have to witness anything like that myself.
Otherwise refered to as experience. It always amazes me how many 360 ops will climb up onto a lowloader ( also how many wont ) while going forward with the arm and boom in the right position to aid balance but insist on spinning the house 180* to see where they are going while unloading with the machine rocking all over the place and them with skid marks in their pants trying to get it balanced. Come off backwards with the arm and boom low is a far better bet in my opinion but what would I know I drive a duck for a living
This is elementary excavator operation. Boom uphill is a gamble against gravity. Boom downhill= no gamble, its leverage to stop the machine - BUT you have to know how to do it.
I dont agree at all. Boom up in the air is a gamble against gravity, many times up hill will give you the balance and traction to move that being down hill will not. Try tracking along a batter/grade. Boom in front, behind, uphill, or downhill. I know which I prefer, especially on rubber The most important thing that we both agree on is you have to know how to do it :drinkup
But if your boom is uphill, you cannot stop yourself from tipping backwards. Boom downhill, you can.
When we dig line in up here its boom uphill dig down the hill. when it gets really steep its tie off to a cat and dig bottom to top
This is obvious on a long line job. It is impossible to change. But you are only telling half the story What do you do when you reach the bottom of THAT hill and start to go uphill? You end up then digging in the PROPER manner - boom downhill to continue with production on the line.:thumbsup
We have to be a little careful here as we are probably not comparing eggs with eggs. If we go back to my lowloader comment the only way your going to tip over backwards ( talking 10t up else you probably wont be on a lowloader anyway) is with the boom up to the stops :tong If we go to the original thread starter....................would we have attempted it ...................personally , not like that. If we go to Cummins post, I would probably have the exc dig uphill when hanging on a wire purely to stop the exc op fouling the line Are we all back on track now on edit, you type faster than me lol.
Ah actually lots of times we climb to the top and dig it top to bottom also and you meet the ditch in the bottom. just the way we did it on a few lines around here it worked we lived i will do it again
I think reversing down slopes with arm up hill makes alot of sense too. In slippy conditions, the arm/bucket will help you more when dug in acting like an anchor, and don't forget the dipper is stronger this way too. Another plus for this is the operator will be in a much more comfortable postion to operate them machine properly/safely. He'll be sat back in the seat and not have his face op against the windscreen or head butting the track levers! Of course banksman and/or reversing camera ideal too Its something I do quite a bit, albeit for slightly different reasons but essentially the same. Quite often I come off low loaders/ramps arm up hill, purely because in a demo rig theres so much weight at the front of the tracks when the booms tilted forward the machine becomes a nightmare to operate and indeed quite dangerous.
I was taught this way and was told if you slide stick your bucket in the ditch then its like an anchor. two the machine will have better balance with the loaded bucket uphill Three if you slide you wont fall in the trench cause its above you and you cant fall uphill into it again just how I was taught everybody seems to have there own why to do things
I will weigh in on one more thing in this discussion of which end should be up (the shiny end, of course) While I agree in average hillside conditions you are OK with the boom uphill, and if you slide, you can dig in. Yes the stick is stronger when pulling in instead of pushing as well. Yes, you are firmer in the seat. (If your face is against the glass, I may suggest that thing called a seat belt. It helps this condition.) Where I disagree is when the conditions get extreme like in this video. Also in the slide I took. If the slope is steep, the weight transfer to the downhill end takes away a lot of the bite your bucket would ordinarily have. In dirt it is not too bad, but in rock you need all the weight to penetrate something to get a grip. With the bucket above you, all you will succeed in is raising the end of the tracks off the ground, and still sliding down. With the boom downhill several good things happen. You can see where you are going. You can use the bucket to stop overturning (usually) You have weight transfer to the bucket to penetrate the hard ground (only if positioned properly) In this video, we see that the machine was not on too steep of a hill untill the very end. The problems were created by a lack of traction due to the rock covered with mud. I have been able to pull myself up steeper hills with the bucket uphill and dug in, but this is in dirt. I have pulled up after giving up on trying to push, as you have much more power pulling. Add rock to the mix and it all changes. Yes, you can pull up, but when you lift to get another bite, chances are you loose what you gained. Pushing up, you may loose what you gained, but you still have a chance to get stopped. Best thing that could have happened in the video after he was out there, would have been to stop and get pulled up by another machine. Being too proud to take assistance has hurt a lot of people.